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James Deen: Porn’s Missing Stair?

Who's got two thumbs and is allegedly a serial sexual assaulter?
Who’s got two thumbs and is allegedly a serial sexual assaulter?

Three women, so far, have come forward to accuse porn star James Deen of sexual assault. It seems exceedingly likely there will be more.

After porn actress Stoya tweeted on Saturday that Deen had forcibly raped her, other women in the porn industry made clear that they’d been warning fellow performers about Deen’s allegedly predatory actions for years.

Indeed, porn actress Sydney Leathers told the Daily Beast that another porn performer “told me when I first got into the business that I should avoid him — that he has boundary issues, basically that he tries to break women.”

In other words, Deen seems to be a perfect example what kink blogger Cliff Pervocracy once called a “missing stair” — that is, a dangerous person that women warn one another about, but whose power in the community shields him from public accusations.

As Cliff wrote in a now-famous post, some people are the equivalent of a missing stair,

[s]omething massively unsafe and uncomfortable and against code, but everyone in the house …. [is] used to it? “Oh yeah, I almost forgot to tell you, there’s a missing step on the unlit staircase with no railings. But it’s okay because we all just remember to jump over it.”

Cliff came up with this striking metaphor after posting publicly “about a rapist in a community I belonged to,” noting that even without giving a name or details of the rapist’s actions,

I immediately got several emails from other members of that community saying “oh, you must mean X.” Everyone knew who he was! … The reaction wasn’t “there’s a rapist among us!?!” but “oh hey, I bet you’re talking about our local rapist.” Several of them expressed regret that I hadn’t been warned about him beforehand, because they tried to discreetly tell new people about this guy. Others talked about how they tried to make sure there was someone keeping an eye on him at parties, because he was fine so long as someone remembered to assign him a Rape Babysitter.

Just as Bill Cosby’s status as a beloved father figure of the comedy world made it terrifyingly difficult for women to go public with their rape accusations against him, Deen’s status in the porn world, and his public reputation as an enlightened, even feminist, porn performer made it similarly terrifying for women to come forward with their accusations against him.

But it wasn’t just Deen’s power in the porn world that kept his alleged victims silent. There is also a strange but widespread belief that porn performers (and sex workers more generally) can’t really be raped.

Tori Lux, one of the three women who say they’ve been assaulted by Deen, explained that she hadn’t gone to the police or gone public earlier because

people (including the police) tend to operate from the assumption that sex workers have put themselves in harm’s way, and therefore can’t be assaulted – which is incorrect, as being involved in sex work does not equate being harmed. …

[S]ex workers are silenced and our negative experiences are swept under the rug in simply trying to protect ourselves from judgement of others, or worse, a variety of problems ranging from further physical attacks to professional problems such as slander and blacklisting. To put it simply, I was afraid.

Her fear is certainly understandable. The “porn performers can’t be raped” argument, despite its obvious absurdity, is one that actually makes it into rape trials. Indeed, only a couple of days before Stoya came forward with her accusations, the lawyer for the MMA fighter known as War Machine, who is currently on trial for sexual assault and attempted murder, suggested that his accuser’s history as a porn actress known for rough sex somehow means that she can’t be raped. As the Daily Beast writes,

War Machine’s attorney … said that even when she wasn’t acting as on-screen seductress Christy Mack, the accuser showed the “desire, the preference, to acceptability towards a particular form of sex activities that were outside of the norm.”

If Deen is prosecuted for his alleged sexual assaults, will we hear a similar argument from his lawyers?

For now, Deen is flatly denying all of the allegations leveled against him:

https://twitter.com/JamesDeen/status/671131915773022209

https://twitter.com/JamesDeen/status/671131998535090176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

But a couple of years ago, Deen took the issue of consent a good deal less seriously than he says he does now. joking about it on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/JamesDeen/status/39057114148245504

He liked that joke so much that he used it again later:

https://twitter.com/JamesDeen/status/189541701751287812

Then again, maybe these Tweets weren’t meant as jokes at all. Maybe this is what Deen actually believes.

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Anarchonist
Anarchonist
8 years ago

@katz

Thanks. Honestly, it’s not that bad anymore. A friend of mine and her boyfriend went through roughly similar experiences at about the same time, so I’ve had peer support. We decided that if all else fails, we’ll just start a band called Fucked Up in the Head. Our theme song plays to the tune of Turbonegro’s All My Friends Are Dead.

mrex
mrex
8 years ago

@kupo
“And her disorder is in the DSM and has been diagnosed by a mental health professional, so isn’t it a mental illness?”

Uh sorta? There isn’t really a set definition of “mental illness”. I mean, you could say it’s a “mental disorder” in that it “effects thought, mood, and behavior”; but that definition also includes dementia, autism, and ADHD, and those generally aren’t thought of as “mental illnesses”.

Most of the time, by “mental illness” people mean mood and thought disorders like Depression or Schizophrenia. Personality Disorders are *fundimentally* different.

A simplified *generalization*;

Mood disorder –> Problems with mood, cure the mood problems and you get a “normal” individual

Thought disorder–> problems with thinking, cure the problems causing disorganized thinking and get a “normal” individual

Personality Disorder–> Abnormal or problematic personality. You can try to treat any mood problems, or cognitive distortions, or behavioral problems, and you will *still* end up with an abnormal person, because it is the *person* themself that is abnormal in a very deep seated way. People with Personality Disorders are fundimentally different from other people in their society.

Of course, what is or isn’t “normal” or what is or isn’t “problematic” are the million dollar questions.

“I know someone who suffers as a result of her personality disorder. Yes, she hurts people, too, but it also hurts her. “

Yah, but PDs are often (usually?) co-morbid with mood disorders. Is it the PD causing the suffering, or is it a comorbid mood disorder causing suffering.

This also depends on the type of PD. They’re all pretty different. And people with PDs also frequently have more than one Personality Disorder. All of these factors mix up and make exactly 99.99999% antedoctal accounts of PDs pure bullshit.

EJ was half correct. Mental illnesses (ie. Mood and thought disorders) pretty much by definition cause distress to the individual. Personality Disorders may or may not. Many people with PDs are perfectly content with staying the way they are, even if the PD is causing dysfunction in their romantic, platonic, or work relationships. The dysfunction may nor may not bother them, in other words. The dysfunction is probably bothering the people around them, however.

This is not limited to Narcissists and APDs, either.

@msexceptiontotherule

“Can we identify troubling behaviors, sure, but without the means to intervene that get the individual connected to appropriate social services and/or effective programs things are likely to go badly – criminal charges become revolving doors all too often, but to simply let that happen until the person has finally become the violent and dangerous person the system has molded him/her into being is disgraceful.”

I really hope that you’re speaking exclusivily of people in a psychotic break whom have lost touch with reality here. Otherwise, you’re being extremely ableist. I get that you mean well, and I agree that we should do better by our mentally ill, but mentally ill people choose to be violent and dangerous, just like “normal” people choose to be violent and dangerous. The second the mentally ill stop having that choice is the second they start being inherently violent and dangerous.

Lastly, in general it’s not ableist to assume Antisocials and Narcs are assholes. The diagnostic criteria for NPD and APD is basically a checklist for “is a gigantic, evil asshole.” What *is* ableist is assuming that every asshole is a Narc or APD. Heyo armchair diagnosis.

mrex
mrex
8 years ago

@Rosa

“I’m sure of that. I’ve searched for quotes from rapists (to make a point) and they either try to justify their actions, or frame them in such a way in which they don’t come up as the bad guys. They try to create barriers for their empathy, so they can avoid feeling guilty.”

Or, it could be impression management? Sociopaths/pathological Narcs know they would loose credibility (and thus control) if they just flat out told the truth, so they manipulate. Their words may be true, they may be tring to maintain image.

I believe sociopaths are really over represented when you look at rapists. Still, most sociopaths are sophisticated enough to never commit a crime. It all comes down to choice.

Mrex
Mrex
8 years ago

Ug, I wrote this instead of sleep. Lots of typos and similar mistakes.

mrex
mrex
8 years ago

Also, *LG was half correct, not *EJ

Luzbelitx
8 years ago

I haven’t commented in this thread yet, but I’ve been following the Deen debacle as well as the discussion of BDSM social scenes.

I think I mentioned I participate in a large BDSM online forum/offline community, in which some prominent users and “well respected” members of the community are also notorious MRAs, which upsets very little people but meh.

The stroy of Deen was published there, and boy, ugly people showed their heads and/or asses in that thread, which soon was closed. And THEN shit really hit the fan, when a young woman I knew a few years ago came forward to accuse one of the members of the forum of abusing her during a year-and-a-half long relationship.

The horriblest part, and the one that makes this feel on-topic here, is that the accused guy was a self-declared feminist, in fact one of the prominent feminists members of the community, online and offline.

He was, indeed, the missing stair, and had been kicked out of smaller communities (like the Slutwalk organizers, the local LGBT leadership, some groups of free love/polyamory). I knew there were victims not coming out since a while ago, but reading the whole story was… well, shocking.

I had met this guy when he came into the community, and we got along really well and even had sex once or twice. I always felt something was off, but I didn’t get the Red flag!! Step back!! signal. I think I narrowly dodged a bullet there. Which is ironic because at that time I was in a similarly abusive relationship.

Anyway, this happened last midnight (it’s about 9:30 am here) and the responses from the community have been of support for her, and for other victims who came to the light after her. I also know he’s about to be banned from online and offline participation, because my the-abusive-partner is in fact the owner of the whole site ¬¬

So, I don’t expect that community will be ever clean of abusers, but I do hope this will get us rid of at least one of them, and I also know if we organize and play our cards well we might just make a lasting change that can help young women in the future.

Bottom line: BDSM communities are complex, but they seem to be catching up with abuse awareness,. I’m not getting into “cant they be fixed at all” territory, at least not today when my faith in humanity has been shaken so hard.

RosaDeLava
RosaDeLava
8 years ago

@mrex
The ones I’ve seen were already jailed/in some sort of rehabilitation

Orion
Orion
8 years ago

EJ,

As Orion said … we’re actually a healthier environment than the straight dating scene.

Someone else said that. I didn’t, and actually I don’t believe it. My opinion is, of course, based on a limited amount of region- and community-specific experience and anecdata. I’m active on FetLife, read sex blogs like Pervocracy, am friends with several people in the Chicago scene, and attended a few (<10) events myself before I decided it (the scene, not the practice) wasn't for me. Based on those sources, I feel that BDSM culture is worse than the alternatives.

Hedin,

Selection bias.

I’m sure selection bias is at work; I’m not immune to human cognitive failings. As I said earlier, I’m posting in this thread from a place of despair. I’ve thought for a long time that BDSM culture it as bad or worse than “vanilla,” (see above), but the thought that the BDSM community is completely irredeemable is an emotional reaction to the current news.

I think you misunderstand BDSM. It looks like “I’m brutalizing you,” but when done right, it’s “I’m going to extreme and theatrical lengths to get you off and make sure you’re having fun.”

I don’t think I have any major mis-understanding what BDSM is; you can read about my experience above. Most days, I identify as a practicing male dominant (though sometimes I’m not sure the label fits*). If I’m wrong in my conclusions, I’d guess it’s not because I’m not familiar with the ideology, but because I have limited data about how to plays out for people in communities I’m not actively involved with.

I think for most of us, it wouldn’t be fun to play with someone who’s not enjoying him/herself any more

I don’t see any reason to think this is true. Some men who have “vanilla” sex are comitted to their partners’ pleasure, either out of decency or because it turns them on. Many don’t care if their partner enjoys it. Simply being turned on by other activities shouldn’t change the calculus. Some men will care, many won’t.

it’s going to be immediately clear to an experienced sub if he/she’s with a partner who doesn’t respect limits or care for his/her pleasure.

Nothing I’ve seen has convinced me that experienced BDSM subs are better at this than experienced “vanilla” people.

I think the problem is with men, not with BDSM as such

I’d say you’re mostly-correct here. The argument I’ve made above is that BDSM people are mostly the same as other people, and tend to be shitty in the same ways as everyone else. That’s a case for BDSM-as-equally-bad to mainstream dating. Here’s why I think it’s worse.

–BDSM by nature makes it more difficult to prove allegations of assault, and as-currently-structured makes it more difficult for bystanders to detect and prevent assault.
–I believe that unambiguously-consensual behavior can nonetheless be abusive. It may be that I have failed to internalize “your kink is not my kink; your kink is ok.” To be clear: this is not about certain actions being prima facie abuse; being flogged or humiliated or whatever can be healthy. However, some people freely choose things that are unhealthy and damaging to them, and the scene-as-it-is enables their self-destruction**.

*I can explain why if anyone wants to know what I do in my bedroom.
**I have a personal story about this.

Orion
Orion
8 years ago

I left one off

-My intuition suggest that there should be a correlation between people who want to simulate or mimick “brutality” and people who want to commit the real thing. This is probably not a strong correlation; I’m sure that most people turned on by the fantasy are repulsed by the reality. However, even a weak correlation might be enough to poison the well.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
8 years ago

Apologies for misreading you.

If you choose not to be part of the scene, then I certainly wouldn’t wish to make you; and I’m not going to call you a liar, it may well be that the Chicago scene is genuinely poisonous. My condolescences and I hope that your practise of it works for you and your partner(s) in whatever way you choose to do it. From what I’ve seen of you via this website you’re a very moral and very trustworthy person, and as such I have faith in your judgment on the matter.

As regards the scene enabling self-destruction: I also certainly know people for whom that’s true. However, to me, this is an argument for remaining active within it. The scene will inevitably attract new people and will attract predators, and unless good people remain within it to separate the two, it’ll end up far worse.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
8 years ago

@Aerinea:

On the sociopath thing; one of my closest friends is a sociopath. We’ve had a pretty good friendship for the last 20 years because the combination of his ASPD (Antisocial personality disorder) and my ASD (Autism spectrum disorder) result in a lot of honesty.

One of the semi-regulars on another blog I frequent (though I don’t read the comments anymore because Disqus is the devil’s own comments platform and NoScript is the cure) was diagnosed quite some time ago with ASPD. He was definitely interesting to talk to because he’d obviously had to think through his ethics much more consciously than most people do. He would occasionally suggest something and be surprised with the vehemence of rejection from the more neurotypical commenters, but always seemed to take criticism seriously. He was good at poking at unexamined assumptions. And some of his past history led to an attitude of ‘nobody else should have to go through what I did’.

So, yes, ‘sociopaths’ are quite capable of being positive citizens, mostly because the smart ones realize early on that upsetting the apple cart will be bad for them as well.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
8 years ago

@ej the other one;

This is something I will need to ponder (whether there is anything in specific that might be done by male doms who aren’t total dickheads that believe all women should be the subbin’ sort and must get on their knees before the mighty men of domly dom-town.) I may be a bit weird but I think the leather-daddies are adorable and awesome to watch in action when they play – in my experience they’ve been pretty great in respecting female dommes who are respectful towards them and their kink/role. They also seem to bring along a horde of young men in ass-less chaps who are always loads of fun as long as they’re properly corralled so they’re not running around willy nilly or doing stuff that might get the entire group ejected from a venue along with possible law enforcement arriving to cart a few off in their cuffs (which aren’t the good kind to be stuck in).

@mrex

Technically I was thinking more in terms of how someone who might be suffering from – for example – PTSD, life difficulties + that then leads to being homeless, which leads to being hassled by cops and arrested for misdemeanors, and all of these things begin to build, especially with many of the ways that someone who is in an acute state of a mental health issue end up being ‘handled’ while in custody – and instead of getting them to effective programs following release from custody many jurisdictions give them maybe 72 hours worth of pills and a card for the local public health services which have months and months-long waiting to simply get an appointment (at least this is the case where I live…) …eventually all that stress and limited options for getting treatment which frequently means they won’t get any at all, land back in jail, and it would be enough to send just about anyone over the edge…it’s not that they choose to be, but without help and all these factors accumulating over time, then how society treats them on top of the horrible ways that corrections departments deal with ‘behavioral problems’…how can anyone expect our hypothetical example person to somehow magically fix themselves? It feels like it’s all set up to push someone a bit further in steady increments and then society will turn around and say “see, this is what they’re like and why we need to be protected from them – should be locked away forever!” ….when in my perspective it would be more helpful to the individual and good for the members of the community they live in to get them help before things start piling on and make it harder to really be effective and lasting. It’s a national problem and indicative of a desperate need for a completely new ‘system’.

@Orion

The law in the U.S. is currently not designed to differentiate between an assault committed on a person by a total stranger in the street versus one person flogging another – but the former is more likely to lead to criminal charges, the latter means that the person being flogged would have to make a report or have cops just randomly hanging around outside of someone’s bedroom or home (sometimes neighbors call because they don’t know if the screams are ‘good’ or ‘this person is killing me and I can’t get to a phone’)…and with these kinds of activities there will always be a certain percentage who get into it because they want to abuse others (or be abused…?) and many adults are reluctant to decide for other adults which ones are the ‘baddies’, sometimes for fear that they might wind up being pronounced a ‘baddie’…it’s the whole ‘shhh this must be kept secret or in-group only’ that I feel is a major problem that needs to be addressed for everyone’s best interests.

lightcastle
lightcastle
8 years ago

@msexceptiontotherule — Oh don’t get me started on “Lord High Domly Doms”. 🙂 But basically, each kink community is pretty unique in how the dynamics play out. There are some horrible ones and some great ones. The big problem is that kinksters in general are VERY invested in claiming they are better at consent and so tend to be aggressively defensive when something is pointed out that contradicts that.

@herdin – As above, how present that dom type is depends on your group. But it is still pretty common overall, as is “domism” in general. (Doms more important than subs, regardless of gender.)

@LeeLa – I dislike the term “vanilla” sex, too. Or “mundane” or “muggle” (if you see it in sci fi/geek crowds). It is basically just special pleading about how special we the “in group” are and Othering the outsiders. When used as a short hand it tends to be fine, but it usually quickly becomes a superiority thing. When that happens, I tend to just remind people that Vanilla is the most popular ice cream flavour in the world and that wars have been fought over it. 🙂 (Also, most kinky people can’t define vanilla vs kink anyway. If they like it, it becomes kinky. Or if too many people like it, it becomes vanilla.)

@Jo – It is only because Vanilla ice cream was the default favourite in the US that it became the “unmarked case”. BOG-standard for a Britishism that is similar. Vanilla is actually amazing, as you say.

(Catching up on more, this is getting long.)

lightcastle
lightcastle
8 years ago

@Orion/EJ – I stand by my statement that different scenes are toxic to different degrees. BDSM provides excellent cover for abuse if someone is so inclined and the community allows it. Other kink scenes are very good at self-policing that.

@EJ – The legal situation remains a strange one. I remember when Paddleboro made lots of people think there was going to be some kind of final clarity of some sort, but that didn’t happen. In Canada, there have been a few indirect rulings that may apply, and a lot of people wonder whether the Ghomeshi case will end up touching on whether or not you can consent to being hit and in what way.

Orion
Orion
8 years ago

EJ,

I appreciate it. Likewise, I’m not out to convince you that you should quit. When I decided the scene “wasn’t for me,” it had nothing to do with moral indignation; I just discovered that joining the scene was neither necessary nor sufficient to get my jollies.

I’m struggling now to figure out what exactly I mean when I say “I fear the BDSM scene is irredeemable,” but I know that I’m not that is it is immoral to participate as a dom or that it’s never worth the risks to participate as a sub. I think my position is something more like,

–For submissives, joining the scene is significantly more dangerous than conventional dating
–This will not change in my lifetime
–The pursuit of joy is a valid reason to take risks
–Nonetheless, young submissives should do some serious soul-searching before concluding that they have the skills and resources to manage that risk
–Insiders and misguided sex-positive cheerleader propagate a false image of the scene as safer and healthier than the mainstream
–They need to stop doing this, because it is putting people in harm’s way

A Land Whale
A Land Whale
8 years ago

I don’t doubt that a huge contingency of porn women have been raped….at the very least they’ve nearly all been coerced…of course everyone will say it’s their fault for doing porn #derp Blegh.

Orion
Orion
8 years ago

A land whale,

do you mean coerced into making porn / during the process of making porn, or just coerced in off-the-clock encounters with other porn people?

nparkern
8 years ago

@ A Land Whale, I understand the sentiment, (and some people in porn must have been raped) but that is a pretty big generalisation to make about the pornography industry. It just makes me uncomfortable as it seems unfair to the people who tirelessly work to regulate pornography outside and within productions.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Regarding the US locking up the mentally ill — it’s not just that we’re more likely to be homeless and thus arrested for stupid shit like loitering and sleeping in public places, but that if we do commit an actual violent crime (cuz let’s face it, most of the shit people, mentally ill or not, get arrested for is stupid shit like possession for personal use) we’re not likely to get proper mental healthcare, just dropped in a prison system that’s rife with abuse. Combine that with the fucked-up-ness of how we treat ex-cons, and how screwed up our mental healthcare system is in general, and you have a goddamned fucking mess almost designed to land people back in jail, still not treated, released, unable to work either because of illness or the fact nobody will hire ex-cons, committing some crime (again, usually not a violent one), back in jail… etc

LeeLa
LeeLa
8 years ago

I think land whale might be referred to women being coerced during filming. the accounts from women who have quit that report being impaired on substances, or the amount of women who report forced coercion by being told they’d be doing one type of shoot (lesbian/ straight piv scenes) only to have the parameters of the deal changed once they have already shot footage (now we are doing anal or you won’t get paid).

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
8 years ago

Aerinea | December 1, 2015 at 6:28 pm

On the sociopath thing; one of my closest friends is a sociopath. We’ve had a pretty good friendship for the last 20 years because the combination of his ASPD (Antisocial personality disorder) and my ASD (Autism spectrum disorder) result in a lot of honesty. I’m an “aspie” autistic and can’t read social cues well despite my love of social situations. He has no sense of empathy and tends towards manipulation involuntarily. He’s found that trying to explain social norms to me helps him to respect them, and my natural aspie earnestness throws him for a loop.

He also finds sexual assault horrifying because having ASPD results in, at least for him, a disinterest in sex unless it forwards something he’s working towards, and he views rape and sexual assault as unproductive and potentially detrimental to his goals.

I’ve been having a fascinating time having discussions with him about our respective disorders.

Basically, Sociopathy isn’t actually a part of being a rapist. Sociopaths can actually be awesome people and loyal friends. But being a privileged, entitled asshole who desires control regardless of consent is a part of being a rapist.
RosaDeLava | December 1, 2015 at 7:11 pm

Basically, Sociopathy isn’t actually a part of being a rapist.

I’m sure of that. I’ve searched for quotes from rapists (to make a point) and they either try to justify their actions, or frame them in such a way in which they don’t come up as the bad guys. They try to create barriers for their empathy, so they can avoid feeling guilty.
I have no doubt that mental illness has less to do with criminal behavior than external circumstances.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

How can sociopaths be great, loyal friends if they lack empathy? Or do they?

About all rapists not being sociopaths, I’ve seen Manospherians claim rape is rare because sociopathy is rare. I guess that’s why they figure “false” rape allegations are so high. But we can agree that rape is a sociopathic behavior, right?

Anyway, I think sociopathy is a mystery and hard to pin point.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
8 years ago

“Later the article described a double penetration scene he was in, and the writer completely brushed Deen off for a few paragraphs (“Deen went to take a shower”) and just sat there observing while the newbie girl who’d been penetrated cried on another performer’s shoulder.”

Was the newbie girl super poverty stricken? I can’t imagine anyone doing such a thing for any other reason. As a society we need to address this issue.

–For submissives, joining the scene is significantly more dangerous than conventional dating

Why?

“–Insiders and misguided sex-positive cheerleader propagate a false image of the scene as safer and healthier than the mainstream
–They need to stop doing this, because it is putting people in harm’s way”

Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of stupid stuff written and promoted by these so called “sex-positive” cheerleaders.

“BDSM provides excellent cover for abuse if someone is so inclined and the community allows it. ”

Why the hell does the community allow it?!

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
8 years ago

“Later the article described a double penetration scene he was in, and the writer completely brushed Deen off for a few paragraphs (“Deen went to take a shower”) and just sat there observing while the newbie girl who’d been penetrated cried on another performer’s shoulder.”

Was the newbie girl super poverty stricken? I can’t imagine anyone doing such a thing for any other reason. As a society we need to address this issue.

–For submissives, joining the scene is significantly more dangerous than conventional dating

Why?

“–Insiders and misguided sex-positive cheerleader propagate a false image of the scene as safer and healthier than the mainstream
–They need to stop doing this, because it is putting people in harm’s way”

Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of stupid stuff written and promoted by these so called “sex-positive” cheerleaders.

“BDSM provides excellent cover for abuse if someone is so inclined and the community allows it. ”

Why the hell does the community allow it?!

“However, some people freely choose things that are unhealthy and damaging to them, and the scene-as-it-is enables their self-destruction**.

**I have a personal story about this.”

Mind sharing? Seems like “the scene” is the perfect place for people with very serious and unresolved issues to go and get themselves “punished” in. We know that adults who were abused as kids often still think it was somehow their fault or they are not worthy or whatever and act in self-destructive ways.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
8 years ago

LeeLa | December 1, 2015 at 9:58 pm

“Can I just say, I hate the reference to sex that isn’t BDSM as “vanilla”. I hate the disparaging of sexual activities that aren’t “kinky” as something to be ashamed of. I’m a woman and I love gentle, tender sex with things that feel good to me happening. It’s never boring to me, I always love the time I’ve spent partaking and I’m happy that I finally realize this isn’t something to be ashamed of.”

– Who shamed you? Friends, when you shared with them your sexual experiences, or the sexual partners themselves?

“I’m almost 30 and I spent a lot longer than I would like to admit partaking in, well, very light bdsm type activities in sex because I thought that’s what was expected of me. I modeled SO MUCH of my sexual presence off of what porn depicted was wanted – the submissive sex bunny that could orgasm at the drop of a whip, who enjoyed the pleasure of pain and performing for her partner.”

– And you said you’re almost 30 so I shudder to think what kids today are growing up believing about sex.

“And it just seems that in the more common worlds where sex gets talked about, people are quick disparage so-called “vanilla” sex. ”

– What country are you in? I can’t see vanilla sex being disparaged in most of the world, nor BDSM being so mainstreamed. I’m pretty sure its an American (US and Canada part of America), or developed, western nations cultural thing at most.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
8 years ago

I don’t know why there are any portions of the community who allow that, and I will acknowledge that it happens and in circumstances where I am nearby and hear of it, or witness or learn of after the fact, I become “that chick”, the one who doesn’t let the subject drop, the one who will call the authorities, the one who will literally put herself between the person acting badly and the person who is the victim regardless of potential danger to my own physical well-being. Yep, I’m that PITA bitch who messes things up for the people with bad intentions. This hasn’t happened in recent years for me though. I don’t care if I flip the fucking boat over, and have no problems with rocking the damn thing when it’s needed.

I also seem to have ever more fields empty of the fucks I do not give that are being collected as I get older.