There have been multiple terror attacks in Paris. As I write this, there are reportedly dozens dead, and hostages being held.
I hope all WHTM readers in Paris are safe, and that this nightmare doesn’t get any worse.
This is a NO TROLLS/NO MRAs thread.
-newbie
I really hope David writes a piece highlighting the MRA and RedPiller reactions to this. There seems to be some striking similarities between IS and the RedPiller mindset, at least what these sharia-fanboy Dalrock types are conserned.
@kale:
to clarify two things:
1. Joann Sfar works for Charlie Hebdo. I’m pretty sure he’s an atheist, but not the kind of asshole atheist who tells others religion is evil. He became famous with two comic series about Eastern European and Northern African Jewish traditions and theology, because he grew up with both. “Thank you, but instead of public Christian praying, I’d rather have a more general and inclusive solidarity” is, to me, a very polite way of making people aware that, while one appreciates the sentiment, one wishes they were more aware of what else is included in a message of public praying. Because #prayforparis isn’t just praying, it’s a public and political statement which automatically excludes other religions and atheists, whether the people who do it are aware of it or not.
2. The “Woody Allen”-post is actually Ella Fitzgerald’s “I love Paris in the Springtime”, a very beautiful and appropriate song. The video is just a montage from one of Allen’s films.
The three most depressing/rage-inducing things on my Facebook right now:
1) “We must get rid of ALL THE MUSLIMS!”
2) “Herp a derp those French people should have had guns!”
3) “False flag! There was no attack! It’s all a conspiracy!”
On number two, good old Trump is at the forefront of saying that. DOES HE EVER CLOSE HIS STUPID LITTLE MOUTH? I’M SO SICK OF NRA WANKERS BLAMING LACK OF GUNS FOR TRAGEDIES WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY GUN RELATING TRAGEDIES IN AMERICA.
http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA2LzEyLzllL1ByaWRlYW5kUHJlLjlmYjg4LmdpZgpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/f8f9ae1f/624/Pride-and-Prejudice.gif
As an atheist, it does piss me off a bit to see all these random people “praying” for the victims and their families when something like this happens. I understand that religious people pray as a coping mechanism, and that’s totally fine. I would never attack someone for praying. But saying you’re praying for someone whose religious beliefs are completely unknown to you, that’s just rude and annoying behavior. If you need to pray in order to make yourself feel better, just go ahead and do it, but keep it to yourself. Don’t weigh others down with your own stuff.
Having said all that, I’ll add that atheists who take a tragedy like this as an opportunity to scream about how “praying won’t help! why didn’t your god stop the tragedy?” – those people can go fuck themselves immediately.
@dhag
Agreeing with you on both points. France is a very very secular country and a Charlie Hebdo cartoon has responded to #PrayForParis with “We really don’t need more religious stuff right now.” We should respect that, if that is the overall wish of the French.
On the other hand, I also agree that it’s annoying to see frothing atheists try and argue that the terror attacks are proof that all religion everywhere must be wiped out immediately because only then will we have world peace. I’m tired of having to make the point that if religion disappeared, people would still bomb and kill each but under a different banner.
CNN reports one of the the attackers was identified as a Syrian refugee, two identified as French citizens, one had an Egyptian passport of unknown legitimacy, two false Turkish passports.
From the looks of it, it’s a deliberate ISIS effort to turn sentiment against the refugees.
@dhag85 @sunnysombrera
totally 100% agreed. Scoring political points for one’s own preferential idea in the face of such horrible events is just awful, no matter who does it.
@guy:
I read that too. It kinda confirms my suspicions that IS is interested in escalating the situation, but I’m glad that most media seem to have sussed it out; let’s hope that politicians have, too.
Very very impressed with Sanders in last night’s debate for standing by his statement that the largest threat is climate change, especially in light of what happened this weekend.
Also, very disappointed with Clinton for opposing free college tuition because “Donald Trump’s kids shouldn’t get free college”. So basically deny poor people an education out of spite, just to barely make a dent in the immense wealth of billionaires. What a stupid fucking argument.
I was just shown this: https://twitter.com/Veeren_Jubbal
GamerGate thought it would be funny to send a guy’s name and pictures to newspaper saying he was one of the men behind the attacks. His picture did make it into the media.
It’s about ethics in gaming the journalism.
@Dodom:
oh for f… Aaand I’ve just seen a Gamergater pull a NoTrueGG on this horrible assholery and try to make a comment thread under a post on reactions to Paris about the eebul SJWs.
Actually, it’s about ethics in… no, you know what? F**k it! This is so messed up I don’t even want to joke about it. Do these people have ANY scruples? Is there NO limit to how far they will go for a laugh? Is it the pain of others IN ITSELF they find so bloody enjoyable?
To quote a favorite internet celebrity of mine: “What is even the Hell?!”
Holy shit Gamergate, this is one of the worst things you’ve done so far. Way to show everyone that you really are just a bunch of chan turds.
@vanir85:
I really hope David writes a piece highlighting the MRA and RedPiller reactions to this. There seems to be some striking similarities between IS and the RedPiller mindset, at least what these sharia-fanboy Dalrock types are conserned.
That would be useful, especially for the naifs like Jaye. It may be hard to imagine (it was for me in the past) that her kind of naivete exists and that it is not malicious; but having met young women like her, I know better now.
These women are raised in a society in which they have rights thanks to feminism, but they do not know much about the struggles to achieve those rights and have bought into the right wing, MRA/TRP-types demonization of feminism as an anti-men, anti-family, anti-everything decent movement.
I know that educating them about reality, which they, raised in privilege, do not fully grasp, helps. Don’t know whether it would help Cassie, but there are others like her who would and do benefit from having things pointed out to them. So spelling out the similarities between TRP, especially its Christian version, and ISIS would help. When these young women are compelled to contemplate what their lives in TRP world would really be like, they often decide to drop their rose-colored glasses.
Dalrock himself is careful enough not to make direct statements that would incriminate him right off the bat, but his commentariat — which he hosts approvingly — provides more than enough material.
Yoga and meditation is the answer. When are we gonna get it?
@dhag, sunny sombrera
I can see the praying bit is mighty irritating when it’s not asked for. I feel the same way when a fundie does it to me, because it’s just a veiled way of saying your beliefs are wrong and you’re going to hell. Screw that. In that vein, same with the frothing atheists. This is *not the time*, you jackasses. Assholes will damn well find a way to be assholes, and not because if or in spite of religion. BECAUSE THEY’RE ASSHOLES.
@ Dodom
WHAT? I. Just. You know what. Oh, just fuck them. Fuck them sideways with a goddamn rusty tire iron. They have no fucking soul or empathy. Like we needed further proof.
Okay, this may be……. The stupidest thing… I have ever…. Heard in my entire life.
ANY COLLEGE IS FREE TO TRUMP KIDS. You are keeping poor kids out, not rich kids. What the hell, how does anybody even say something this stupid out loud without everybody bursting in laughter? Will anybody vote for this guy?! How can the US have Trump in one side and this guy on the other? You Americans from this blog should run for elections. That’s Brazilian politician level of nonsense. I’m truly baffled at this coming from a liberal.
“I really hope David writes a piece highlighting the MRA and RedPiller reactions to this. There seems to be some striking similarities between IS and the RedPiller mindset, at least what these sharia-fanboy Dalrock types are conserned.”
– I’ve been saying that since day one.
“These women are raised in a society in which they have rights thanks to feminism, but they do not know much about the struggles to achieve those rights and have bought into the right wing, MRA/TRP-types demonization of feminism as an anti-men, anti-family, anti-everything decent movement.”
– I was raised amongst peple who think “feminism” means “women’s rights to become as degraded as men and have sex all over the place” (their words not mine). Or, “women’s rights to become as degraded as ‘western women’,” (again their words, not mine). Western women, not so much the men, bear the brunt of these people’s prejudice, racism, xenophobia and perverted sex fantasies. Try explaining to such backward people that feminism stands for all that is good about human potential, its damn hard. Maybe because I grew up amongst them and they see me as one of them it was made harder. Like how parents refuse to learn from their kids or something. That western women themselves, even if its only a handful, are buying into the same crap, its just impossible for me to see, hear, read or believe. But its true. Sadly.
Firstly, I want to give hugs all around. All the hugs.
Secondly, on the atheist/religion thing. I’m an atheist, but I know a gazillion thoroughly nice religious people. I don’t in the least mind people praying or doing whatever else gives them comfort and doesn’t hurt others (ie, as long as they don’t pray AT me). I do think calls for prayer are sometimes used as a diversionary tactic, but not usually by the people doing the praying.
And yes, assholes will generally find a way to be assholes, but I do think there’s one problem specific to religion: it disables the reality checks. It can take people a long time to notice that neither trickle-down economics nor communism work, but they eventually get it. But how do you check what actually happens after we die? Don’t you know God will be angry if you even ask the question? It can spiral hiddiously out of control. It doesn’t necessarily, but it can.
Greta Christina said it better than I can: The Armor of God
What happened tot he photos? There were supposed to be photos of hugs.
I’ll try again.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/romeoliverpool/4824319959/
OK, I think I’ve got it now.
http://s192.photobucket.com/user/resli-b/media/clinging-orangutans.jpg.html
http://www.orangutan.org.au/images/orangutan/rocky-and-rickina/rocky-rickina-sandy-hug.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/08/article-1053558-020DEFA10000044D-574_468x622.jpg
Speaking of the prayer thing, I’ve noticed that a ‘post amen for x cause’ thing has been suddenly popping up all over my news feed on Facebook. Is this a recent trending thing? I’m fairly ambivalent about religion, so I don’t mind so much when it’s post-a-prayer-for-this-person-who-asked-us-to-share-this, but when it’s post-amen-to-go-to-heaven-if-you-don’t-awful-things-will-happen, then I’m not too impressed.
I’ve also seen arguments popping up all over fbook, with people asking users not to change their profile pictures to those of the French flag because of France’s colonialist history and previous breaches of human rights, and these posts going viral :(. Other folks have been challenging this admirably though, calmly explaining that they’re changing their pictures in solidarity with the victims of the attacks, and their friends and family – that the show of support is about standing with the civilians, not the state.
However these ‘don’t change your profile pic’ posts have been shared by people who I admire and have learned a great deal from in the past concerning social justice issues, so I’m struggling with the dissonance. I think part of that dissonance comes from France being our close neighbour (I’m in the UK), and so I have personal, professional, past and current connections with Paris, as many people in the UK do. Many of us holiday there, or have made friends there, have relatives living there or have house-shared with an exchange student or studied there. So it’s not surprising that those in the UK feels that strong sense of solidarity in the wake of the attacks.
I dunno, guess I’m just posting here what I wish I could post elsewhere.
Wow. I’m not very impressed with the idea that we shouldn’t show solidarity with a country that has just been attacked, just because that country itself doesn’t have a 100% SJW track record. Showing solidarity with someone when times are hard doesn’t mean you endorse everything they’ve ever done, or even everything they’re doing right now. The flag-sharing is obviously in response to the very recent attack. People who take this opportunity to go on about colonialism are no better in my eyes than atheists who use this moment to preach. Bleh.
“Speaking of the prayer thing, I’ve noticed that a ‘post amen for x cause’ thing has been suddenly popping up all over my news feed on Facebook. Is this a recent trending thing? I’m fairly ambivalent about religion, so I don’t mind so much when it’s post-a-prayer-for-this-person-who-asked-us-to-share-this, but when it’s post-amen-to-go-to-heaven-if-you-don’t-awful-things-will-happen, then I’m not too impressed.”
Misha, prayer will soon be completely replaced by meditation in the West and South to East Asia. The middle region will take a bit longer but even they have zikr and with some help from the global yoga community, can make the transition over the next couple of decades. Turkey is already open. Its our gateway.