I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.
Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.
It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.
So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.
And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that
David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.
(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)
Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.
So let’s take a look at them, shall we?
I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.
In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why
Cassie,
We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.
But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.
It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.
It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.
I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.
I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.
I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:
Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.
Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that
Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.
I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.
I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.
And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.
I ended with this:
You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.
And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.
I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.
In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.
I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.
After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.
But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.
So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.
Here’s the whole thing:
She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.
I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.
Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.
Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter. Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.
Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.
I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.
I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.
NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.
I love the drive-by trolls because they just storm in, mid-imaginary-argument, farting non sequiturs into the ether.
Forgive me my n00bness, as I forgive those who are n00bish against me.
I assume “cut Cassie Jaye loose” meant “stop assuming she’s any kind of feminist any more or that she’ll come to her senses.”
Oh, and I let through some trolls for everyone’s entertainment. If they get annoying or tedious or whatever, let me know and I can send them to ban land.
“Spaz” is a slur in the US as well, just as much as “retard” and the like.
Ninjaed, I guess you all have discovered the trolls already.
Trolls gonna troll.
of course, without reading anything David has actually written on the subject, just spew forth what they’ve seen on AVFM, Twitter et al.
One thing I meant to add before is that I hope Cassie includes all the proactive and effective actions and services the Men’s Rights Movement has created and maintained for men in need. You know, the rape crisis centers, the free legal services and counseling for DV, support for single fathers and their kids and the divorce support groups.
Oh, you say those services don’t exist?
OK, well then, nevermind.
I guess it’s too much to ask that we would end up getting just one troll that doesn’t come off sounding like a complete moron.
What truly amazes me is that the MRAsshole arguments are just a repeat of the same thing over and over again. Same misinterpretation of a CDC report. Same tired cries of ‘harassment’ when you ask them any questions whatsoever, but they’re fine when they come barging in and shit all over the floor, because it’s not harassment when they do it. Same, same, same, same.
And yet they expect that the genocidal agenda underneath the surface never be discussed. The reality that mainstream MRAssholes like Barnes and Esmay are transexterminationists? Boy howdy they get angry when that comes up. The close ties of the Men’s Rights Bowel Movement and “white nationalism”, a nice way of saying “white supremacists”? Nope, can’t talk about that either.
If you point these things out, they seem to believe it’s oppression on some axis. You know, the oppression that comes from facts and truth being pointed out to people who are desperately afraid of both.
The MRBM’s endgame is my elimination, along with doing actual harm to actual women of all sorts. You’ll pardon me for not rolling over and taking it.
Is this the new “RESPECTS IS EARN”? Can we have a memetastic contest with this theme?
You have my support and sympathy, David.
@Anononononon
Although many of us here are apprehensive about what will happen to Cassie Jaye once (not if but once) the MRM turns on her, no one here is scared of Cassie Jaye’s film. But thanks for the laugh! Personally, I cannot wait for this film to be released. Someone else commented here today that the film would be out in a year. I was crushed. I have to wait that long?! Not that I’ll pay to see it. But I’m very much looking forward to other commenters’ remarks about the film. Those remarks are bound to be smart and insightful. Plus maybe there will be a clip on YouTube. Fingers crossed!
You can tell us what this film will consist of? Nice to see that you’re not afraid to mansplain a film that is still in the making. And congratulations on your super psychic powers!
Yeah, thanks for pointing out the “superficial problems first world women apparently [fixed that misspelling for you — you’re welcome!] suffer from, like man spreading or sweat shaming.” These problems are definitely not problems. After all, if women in the third world have worse problems than we have, women in the first world must have no problems! Kind of like your problems with feminism (or at least what you consider feminism to be). People in third world countries are busy with much worse problems than your petty issues with feminism. Get a grip!
Wait — what feminists “by their own admission” hate us (other) feminists? Are these feminists who hate us the aforementioned cartoon feminists? Oh, okay.
Why, yes we do. It’s because she didn’t have enough money to make her film. Thanks for asking!
Of all your egregious grammar and spelling errors, “modecombe” is my favorite. Thanks for this gem. And because I’m a feminist and thus a nice person, I’ll tell you the correct spelling: modicum. It means “a small amount.” I’m not at all sure that Cassie Jaye will appreciate this “compliment.”
Would other commenters care to address other remarks made by this individual? There are so, so many to choose from!
This is probably the cartoon being referenced.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/32-types-anti-feminists/
HAHAHAHAHAHA my god, this is the funniest thing.
I have seen this little comic, it’s hilarious. This part is a mocking those girls holding signs like “I don’t need feminism because…”. It’s very very obvious.
No, dear, not hating men doesn’t make you an antifeminist. Being a woman who loves men and who believes the ludicrous idea that feminists hate men is what making them antifeminists.
You see, this comic doesn’t justify your prejudice. Instead, your prejudice is what makes women like the one in the comic exist.
Also, why do all trolls mistake thing like “pointing and laughing”, “shaking head sadly”, “rubbing one’s eyes incredulously”, “feeling nauseous” with things like fear, rage and all sorts of extreme reactions?
This troll is hilarious, can we keep it? I literally laughed out loud at his interpretation of the comic.
I can’t stand Sargon of Akkad. The Youtuber, not the ancient king.
I can’t stand the fact that he has about a jillion subscribers, either! Who the fuck voluntarily watches his rubbish? He is rubbish! His videos are rubbish! Someone needs to just pick him up and put him in a garbage truck!
I quite like the title of Man-Hating Pleb, actually.
Adding comics to the long list of things that are too difficult for MRAs to understand.
I suppose I can step away from Fallout 4 streams (I recently learned that my PCs graphics card can’t even run the game at bare minimum graphics WHHHHHAAAAAAAAA) to deal with a troll or two. Lemme at ’em.
Hello, yes, welcome to the blog. Before you knee-jerk all over the place, might I suggest you read a few more articles on this blog? Or hey, why don’t you talk to a few of our commenters, who have/had MRAs in their lives?
Here’s an article about Roosh V advocating for rape on private property. Because rape is a “learning experience”, apparently.
Here’s an article about Bash a Violent Bitch Month, which Paul Elam suggested to celebrate instead of Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Because if a woman half your size slaps you, you should be able to knock her the fuck out, amirite?
Here’s an article about a group of MRAs flooding a college with false reports of rape, thus making it so no one can tell what’s a false report, or an actual report.
Here’s an article about AVfM impersonating the White Ribbon organization, which advocates and assists women who have been in abusive relationships.
What’s that? You what instances of physical violence?
Oh, well here’s an article about a woman who was murdered for being a feminist and calling out sexist behaviors of a football team, and here’s a post about an MRA that blames her death on jokes about “misandry”.
Of course, if you’d like to find some more instances of physical violence, you can most certainly find some more on this blog, or talk to other commenters.
@Luzbelitx
At a guess, half projection, half attempted provocation.
Oh I love the smell of PI Trollbashing in the morning!
Blessings to everyone, especially David. You are our hero.
Shit. Doublepost. My bad. David, can you delete one of those? And ALL HAIL THE BLOCKQUOTE MAMMOTH FOR IT IS MIGHTY AND HUNGRY.
@Argenti
I can make all kinds of animals from my phone, but I don’t know if WordPress will take them.
These are especially for you (and anyone else who needs cuteness):
????????????????????????????????????
I wish I had a narwhal *sigh*
In homage to Cassie, I took ten minutes to take this picture of my beautil self with my beautiful Oscar for best actress (I played a tree in Wizard of Oz) and my Noble prize of Medicine (for basical knowledge of human anatomy)
[IMG] http://i65.tinypic.com/otpu8h.jpg [/IMG]
(I am sorry if that’s too much, I have been itching to do this for days now.)
http://i65.tinypic.com/otpu8h.jpg
Maybe now? Ugh, I can’t code.