I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.
Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.
It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.
So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.
And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that
David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.
(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)
Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.
So let’s take a look at them, shall we?
I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.
In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why
Cassie,
We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.
But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.
It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.
It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.
I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.
I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.
I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:
Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.
Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that
Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.
I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.
I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.
And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.
I ended with this:
You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.
And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.
I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.
In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.
I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.
After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.
But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.
So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.
Here’s the whole thing:
She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.
I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.
Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.
Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter. Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.
Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.
I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.
I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.
NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.
@Chiomara
So you were responding to a sentiment you observed, not us in particular.
Okay. I sometimes do that, but I try to make it clear it’s “this type of thing”.
Definitely agree Cassie looks like a con artist. It’s kinda sad. Not like she can’t do real research/film work. Even if the money is tempting ( Thars Gold in them thar MRA virtual hills!!!) it takes a special kind of amorality to bate and gratuitously smear someone who has emailed her kindly and advance herself at their expense.
I’m pretty sure that “m” (as in “MRA”?) got that “your story is coming to an end” line from a recent episode of Doctor Who. They might not be very pleased that the actor who is currently playing the Doctor doesn’t seem very fond of sexists.
I wonder if its status as a slur is more of a regional thing? Like how Weird Al’s “Word Crimes” in the previous thread uses the word “spastic” because he wasn’t aware of its ableist connotation in the UK.
(Although I cringe when I hear it even as a USian because it seems so obvious now…)
^Copy & paste error, I guess. I just want to point out it wasn’t me who said that.
David, I sent support on Twitter as capeannsky but want to join the party here as well.
I read every word of this blog and every comment but my confidence for commenting is often limited. I am certain you are protecting yourself from the likes of Jack Barnes. These folks can’t live without drama and finger pointing. It looks like you’re the flavor of the week.
Cassie Jaye is a young person with a lot to learn.(I’m old and can say shit like that) It doesnt’ seem to me that she had much time or experience to understand the fullness of feminism, it is my impression that it “kinda sounded like the right way to go” at the time. She may have made documentaries before but she has not come up against the likes of this crowd, especially if she was raised as she says in a sheltered, Christian environment. I am not too sympathetic though because she clearly didn’t do any definitive research before wading in, I share the often mentioned opinion that if she is not spouting Kool Aid in the doc, she will be vilified and abused by the toxic MRA community. It’s a year until the film is released, she has a long time to either soak it in or wise up.
How anyone can interview Elam or Esmay then look at their Twitter, websites and comments and come up with,”But they’re just misunderstood, feminists are such meanies” is beyond my comprehension. She is not unintelligent. Beyond that, to apparently support the unsubstantiated nonsense at AVFM versus recognizing that David basically reproduces it here with commentary for our safety, then accusing David of bullying is just ridiculous.
I think it is partly about sucking up to a cash source and getting some press but I do think there is some inexperience there and they are telling her what she wants to hear.
I think you all rock and am lurking with love.
Wow, you people are a bunch of hypocritical sexists. She agrees with everything we say, she’s awesome!!! She thinks men who say there is sexism against them some capacity in America have a valid argument?! BURN HER!!! What’s that, that’s not PC fine…DISCREDIT her as a sell out and a fraud!!!
No wonder modern feminism is so off putting to any rational person, sexist men didn’t make feminism a bad then, all of you did.
@Bvh
Yes, I am sorry,again. I often think I am making things very clear and sounding calm when I appearantly only explain half of what I think I did, while sounding very annoyed. I don’t know if this a lack of ability to understand social cues or another symptom of my dislexia. I didn’t mean it.
And yes, it’s quite cruel of her to do this with David, he seemed so gentle and genuinely concerned in his mails. But guess she is doing anything to win their hearts at this moment.
@Auntie Alias
Sorry. My bad. Yes, total copy/pasta error.
*red face*
@Chiomara
It’s predatory and exploitive, is what it is. Cassie isn’t leaving herself any wiggle room for a “misunderstanding”…which would be hard to buy at this point anyway.
Others have brought up how Cassie was supposedly harassed by MRAs. At this point it’d question the provenance of those claims. Looks like a set up, so she can say, “Yes, I was harassed too, but it’s not a big deal. Those were just bad apples!”
Is there really that much money to be made of off this MRA shit that all these games are worth the effort?
Wait, there is a “Paul” in Ta-Nehisi Coates’ name? I never knew this! (I presume he dropped it in general usage at some point.)
And I am shocked, SHOCKED, I say, to find him making the sort of nuanced analysis of contextual language I prefer.
More seriously, Dave, I just wanted to jump in with some support. Personally, I think you should have basically just stayed away from Jaye, since I think at this point the film will live or die on its own merits, but that second email is not bullying in any sense of the word and I was going to complain about you only offering an edited version of the first, and recommend you address that but you immediately put up front your willingness to have the unedited one available. That’s the proper way to handle such things, so good on you.
@bvh
No worries! :bear:
@Bvh
As someone with plenty of friends struggling in the entertainment industry, guess it’s safe to say it makes more money than being a freelance indie documentary director. But depends on your principles, I guess. And if her principles are as they seem, I just am very glad if she changes her profession.
I think she realises that she’s in over her head and is actually scared.
There’s some drive by troll comments brought out of moderation on the previous page. I don’t have time to deal with them right now, but I thought I’d alert everyone because troll take downs can be fun!
This is the root of her problem. Even if she was that naive, it is her responsibility to practice journalistic “due diligence” ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence )in her research. In the case of AVFM, et al, there’s such overwhelming material available online, it should be easy to check basic facts.
This doesn’t seem to be happening. Worse, she’s exhibited manipulative, avoidant behaviour when confronted with her apparent lack of savvy, even when kindly expressed. This implies heavily she’s aware she’s involved in deceptive activity.
If she was really this naive, we’d have to believe she has no idea what investigative, documentary journalism is.
I don’t know if anyone knows of Abby Martin. She’s a kook who had a program on Russia Today and claims to be an “investigative journalist”:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116877/most-interesting-part-abby-martins-rt-outburst-its-aftermath
But Martin is unable to do basic investigation into the kooky subjects she pushes(fluoride scares, antvaxxers, Ron Paul) that would show they’re all paranoid, reactionary hogwash. Instead she acts like an uncritical mouth piece of woo.
Like Cassie, Martin is youthful and photogenic. I can’t shake the idea Cassie has been recruited to front for the MRA/AVFM spin machine and Cassie knows this.
[Sorry if double post. Browser acting up]
What gives you this idea?
How did you make a bear?! And more importantly, where did you learn that? ARE THERE OTHER ANIMALS WE’VE BEEN MISSING?????
*calms down* oh of course there are trolls, is PI around? PI takedowns are best takedowns.
Lay off the blue pills for a while and see what you think when your mind finally clears.
So, stop thinking in the way you think and start thinking the opposite way, and eventually you will find you’re thinking in the opposite way? Pretty brilliant takedown of egalitarian politics. 10/10 totally swayed
So… who are these women that MRAs have actually hurt? You haven’t provided any instances. Also, she seems pretty reasonable here and even admitted that the lens she started with wasn’t what she finished with. I don’t understand why this is looked at as toxic when it is raising issues about men?
Sure there are radicals with toxic ideas, but there are radical feminists with toxic ideas too. Grouping an entire lot together based on the outliers is pretty ignorant.. You’re coming off like a hack, be better.
The only way you can make this cease to be false equivalence is if you can name at least one prominent manospherian who doesn’t support absolutely appalling bullshit. I wish you luck: you’ll need it.
quote tags, you have failed me.
Second and last paragraphs are my own words: everything else is attributions.
Nope, not dealing with the troll. Mentions of MRAs and statistics in the same sentence make my eye twitch because the way they abuse numbers makes my mourn math. Also, nobody here dox’ed Barnes’s kid!
I wish trolls could at least learn basic reading skills before jumping into the deep end of analyzing the statistic value of studies.
Cut her loose from what? What has she been attached to?
Lol, those tags did kill you, I was gonna pose the troll challenge to you but then you posed it and bad HTML, confusing people!
Shorter Anononononon:
http://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpg?fb
I thought it would only embed the picture itself. Sorry about that.
I love it when people misspell words while in the process of trying to call someone else stupid. “Modicum” is the word you were looking for. I see also that you have such an unbiased, rational view of David Futrelle’s posts that you’ve fallen for every recent lie about him, and not checked to see if those lies have been debunked. He had nothing to do with Jack Barnes’ doxxing, and has condemned it repeatedly, as have his fans.
Show me where MRAs have done anything to address those real issues beyond whining about feminism. If you can’t, I can certainly give you a few examples of feminists addressing men’s issues, because guess what, feminists have been after equality all this time.
Excellent example of MRA’s logical superiority here. You saw a cartoon, and either a. it was produced by an antifeminist and you decided to take it for official admission that feminists hate men, or b. it was produced by a feminist, and you missed some key points in the process of deciding that one obscure cartoon speaks for all feminists. No, not hating men does NOT make you an antifeminist. In fact, the women I’ve heard complaining about hating men the most are the ones most caught up in adhering to gender roles, which discourage men and women from having common interests or even believing they are capable of understanding one another.