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Red Pill director Cassie Jaye is accusing me of sending “bullying emails.” Here are the emails. Decide for yourself.

Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad
Cassie Jaye, in her interview with Sargon of Akkad

I had hoped to avoid writing about Cassie Jaye and her strange journey into Red Pill-land again so soon.

Jaye, you may recall, is the apparently former feminist who is now directing a movie about the Men’s Rights movement that is, as she herself put it in one interview, “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates.” A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights garbage site at the heart of her film, actively helped her to raise money on Kickstarter for postproduction work on the film.

It’s no secret that I have some rather serious doubts that she will provide the “balanced” look at the Men’s Rights movement that she has been promising. I have written several posts here highly critical of her and the direction her Red Pill documentary seems to be going.

So I can understand that she’s not a big fan of me at the moment. Unfortunately, she’s responded to my criticisms with, well, lies.

And now she’s added a new lie to the pile, claiming in a recent interview with YouTube blabber Sargon of Akkad that I sent her “bullying” emails. After dismissing my concerns about her film as a “smear campaign,” she went on to say that

David Futrelle was also emailing me privately – two different emails since the Kickstarter – and so I made a statement video, I think a week ago, trying to just have something on record where I’m explaining the false allegations that Futrelle is reporting and so I had my say out there on record. And something maybe I should have included in that it hasn’t just been his articles and tweets; it’s also been private emails. Well, I think the word that most closely describes it is bullying.

(The interview is more than two hours long; she first brings me up about ten minutes in, and makes the comments above at around the 23 minute mark, after being asked about harassment.)

Jaye is right about one thing: I sent her two emails since the Kickstarter started. But to describe them as “bullying” is beyond bizarre.

So let’s take a look at them, shall we?

I sent the first email before she solved her funding problems by giving an interview to Breitbart, and when I still thought there was a chance Jaye might deliver something even vaguely close to a balanced view of the Men’s Rights movement in her Red Pill film, rather than the straight-up MRA propaganda that it seemed to be turning into.

In the subject line of the email, I told her I was “deeply concerned” about her film. In the email, I explained why

Cassie,

We haven’t talked since the plans for an interview with me fell through, which may have been my fault.

But I have just watched the preview for your film and looked at some of the things you’ve posted on your facebook page and I am very deeply concerned about the direction of your film, and the highly unbalanced list of people that you interviewed for it.

It looks as though you have gotten a highly distorted, one-sided view of the Men’s Rights movement, by talking to a bunch of MRAs who tamped down their anger long enough to give you a sanitized pitch about what it is they do.

It’s good that you talked to some feminists. But instead of talking to those feminists and writers who have actually dealt with MRAs on a regular basis you have talked to feminists who have only a vague connection to what is really going on with the Men’s Rights movement.

I’ve been writing about them for five years now, and trust me, the video here is a better representation of them than what I’ve seen in your preview.

I linked to the now-notorious video of Paul Elam’s crude, drunken and NSFW tirade about two feminists.

I suppose that might have been a little harsh. saying that Elam’s video was a more accurate representation of MRAs than what she’s posted from her film. Then again, it is. I continued, referencing something Elam said in in the clip of the film she posted:

Elam, I think it was, made a joke about how no feminists were harmed during the making of your film. But in fact during the several years you have been making this film, many feminists and other women have been harmed by Elam and his allies.

Though she talked to one of the more famous victims of MRA harassment, I noted that there had been “many, many others,” and suggested that

Making a video about Elam and his allies at AVFM without talking to these women would be like making a documentary about Bill Cosby without talking to any of his accusers.

I listed a number of these women, with links to relevant posts of mine about them.

I mentioned one AVFMer who, since Jaye had interviewed him, had fallen out with Elam, with each accusing the other of being a con man. I mentioned that one MRA that Jaye had “managed to get an almost reasonable-sounding quote out of” was better known for his bitter, vicious attacks on Twitter. I mentioned “Janet Bloomfield’s” troubles with the truth.

And I pointed her to a notorious post from Paul Elam in which he declared he wasn’t actually interested in doing anything to help men beyond yelling at people on the internet.

I ended with this:

You can find more information about almost all of these things on my blog, even if I haven’t provided a link. And if you need any more information or links or contact information, please feel free to contact me. And I really hope you do.

And I hope even more strongly that you contact some of the women that Elam and his allies have harmed.

I should point out that I was not writing out of the blue. She had in fact contacted me during the filming of The Red Pill, asking for information and advice and attempting to set up an interview on film, which ended up falling through for various logistical reasons. We hadn’t communicated since then.

In any case, after this note, Jaye offered to talk to me on the phone about some of these issues and, after a few brief emails back and forth to set up a time to talk, we did, for about 20 minutes, I think.

I was polite, she was polite, and I believe I offered apologies for the sometimes blunt tone of my email to her. She assured me she was aware of all the issues I was raising, and that the film would reflect many of my concerns, which she told me that she herself shared.

After this conversation, I seriously considered stepping forward to offer public support to her Kickstarter, despite my serious misgivings over the footage she had released so far, her marketing strategies, and the unbalanced roster of interviewees.

But I couldn’t overcome my doubts about her, and after reading her interview with Breitbart I realized that my gut feelings about her had been right. She had been bullshitting me, and bullshitting feminists in general. And so I wrote my Open Letter to her.

So what about that second email of mine? I wrote that after A Voice for Men accused me of threatening her, in an attempt to clarify to her what I had actually meant in my Open Letter, and to check one fact with her.

Here’s the whole thing:

David Futrelle <dfutrelle@gmail.com> Oct 30 (13 days ago) to Cassie Hi, Cassie, As you know, I am deeply disappointed by your apparent embrace of some of the internet's most toxic individuals, and that I think that you have compromised the integrity of your fllm by taking money from them. But there was no "threat" to you in my open letter to you, the claims of Elam and his fans notwithstanding. I do think you will come to regret your embrace of these people, in part because this is, as I explained in the open letter, a violation of your own stated principles, but also because these people are bullies with a habit of turning on their former allies, and if you don't give them the deeply biased film that they expect, they may turn on you, and you may become a target of harassment -- from them, not me. My question: Will Mike Cernovich be an Associate Producer on your film? As you know, he says he is, and since you Tweeted his post saying this, I can only assume this is true. But I wanted to confirm this with you.

She didn’t respond. Figuring that she didn’t want to talk to me, I didn’t send a followup.

I’m having trouble understanding how my saying that “hey, these MRAs giving you money are actually total jerks” counts as bullying, exactly.

Indeed, in an interview published a day after I sent that email, she made it clear that MRA harassment is something she herself worries about, jokingly telling Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ that she could always “go into hiding” if the MRAs partially funding her film weren’t happy with it.

Cassie, if you want to see what bullying looks like, take a look at what A Voice for Men’s “social media director” did to feminist writer Jessica Valenti on Twitter.  Look at Elam offering $100 for a clear photo of one of his enemies. Look at the hate campaign Elam launched against one female college student because she attended a demonstration and made a few jokes on Twitter. Click on the  “harassment”or “bullying” tags on this blog for countless more examples.

Hell, go take a look at any of the examples of women harassed by AVFM and other MRAs that I sent you in that first email of mine.

I wasn’t trying to bully you; I was doing my best to convince you to listen to the women that the apparent heroes of your documentary have bullied, and continue to bully to this day.

I know that you spoke to one of these women. I hope that you at least do her justice in your film, though at this point, admittedly, I don’t have much reason to think you will.

NOTE: For reasons of space I didn’t include all of the first email. If you are a journalist or someone else with a legitimate need to fact check this piece I can send you the entire email. As text, as a screenshot, with the gory details of the email’s passage over the internet, whatever.

 

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RosaDeLava
RosaDeLava
4 years ago

@Auntie Alias
So I’m guessing this was a case of “forgot to log out of fake account”, then.

RosaDeLava
RosaDeLava
4 years ago

Correcting my other post – When I wrote “If he’s been doxxing” I meant to say “If he’s been doxxed”

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

@Auntie Alias

Agree about @sarahlery…she seems to be genuinely baffled by all this.

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

I took a screen shot of the one about IRC and deleting a tweet sent to Jack by mistake. I don’t understand the significance. Can someone explain, please?

Bless you. 😉

I haven’t seen it for myself, only the quoted text above, but it seems the person accidentally included an MRA friend in a tweet using the troll account? At the very least it’s odd they’re apologizing and deleting in a panic.

Then they pulled the account. LOL.

This might be as fun as a time on Reddit when a #notyourshield hatergater claimed to be black under a screen name he used at devianteart, with photos proving he was “one light skinned dude” as one poster said…

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
4 years ago

The IRC thing looks to me like they are trying to pretend that they have been having a secret IRC discussion with David and that they “accidentally” let Barnes know about it.

As in a deliberate attempt to pretend they are colluding with David, which suggests that smearing David is part of the doxxer’s intent.

dhag85
4 years ago

Oh no, my take on the above tweets was as follows:

First the doxxer sent a message to David, pretending to be a friend of his with the reference to having talked to him on IRC, and “accidentally” tagging Jack Barnes.

Then the doxxer sent David another tweet, pretending to have messed up by “revealing their plan” to Jack Barnes.

But I really don’t know. If that was his plan he’d have to be really stupid to believe anyone would fall for it. The whole thing is weird.

@bvh

Ah, I see. I didn’t realize the difference between a page that has been shut down by Twitter and one that has been shut down by the user.

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

@SpecialFFrog

Rereading the text, that’s a possibility. There’s all sorts of reasons why it’s dumb and over done, not the least of which, being public tweets, Barnes was already watching them whether he was included or not…

dhag85
4 years ago

@SpecialFFrog

Ninja’d. Yup, that’s exactly what I thought too.

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

@dhag85

Ah, I see. I didn’t realize the difference between a page that has been shut down by Twitter and one that has been shut down by the user.

Yup. When I went to the page I was surprised not to see the black and white “account suspended”.

I suppose there’s a third possibility: they got a warning from Twitter and decided to pull it before they got an IP ban, if Twitter does that. I assumed that’s how Bloomfield lost all her accounts.

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

The whole thing is weird.

This. So much this.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
4 years ago

Thanks for the explanations. I agree that it looks like trollboy tried to make it look like he was in cahoots with David.

dhag85
4 years ago

Jack Barnes at least has the decency to thank the feminists on Twitter who reported the doxxer and worked to get the account shut down. He’ll probably still be dishonest enough to blame David for the doxxing though.

SpecialFFrog
SpecialFFrog
4 years ago

@bvh: I don’t think it is meant to fool anyone. Barnes and co. don’t care if it is true so long as they can pretend that it is.

bvh
bvh
4 years ago

Wandering somewhat back on topic, anyone look at Cassie’s website in wayback? No serious skeletons, but her bio used to say:

“MISSION STATEMENT

To produce high-quality entertainment that expands the mind and encourages progressive thought and action.

ABOUT US

Jaye Bird Productions, LLC, is proud to showcase “Daddy I Do” as it’s first breakout feature film. The family-owned company was started in February 2008 under the direction of filmmaker, Cassie Jaye.

As an actress interested in all aspects of the film industry, Jaye began exploring her passion for social issues and storytelling behind the camera.

Mother and sister, Nena Jaye and Christina Clack, joined her in the development of Jaye Bird Productions, LLC, a company dedicated to unmasking women’s issues.

Beginning with “Daddy I Do”, Jaye Bird Productions seeks to produce politically provocative films that inspire progressive thought and action.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20091208021900/http://jayebirdproductions.com/bio.html

Now it says:

“ABOUT US

Jaye Bird Productions, LLC, is proud to showcase “Daddy I Do” as it’s first breakout feature film. The family-owned company was started in February 2008 under the direction of filmmaker, Cassie Jaye.

As an actress interested in all aspects of the film industry, Jaye began exploring her passion for social issues and storytelling behind the camera.

Mother, Nena Jaye, joined her in the development of Jaye Bird Productions, LLC, a company dedicated to unmasking human rights issues.

Beginning with “Daddy I Do”, Jaye Bird Productions seeks to produce politically charged films that inspire.”

She dropped all “progressive” references starting in 2013:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130626163801/http://www.jayebirdproductions.com/bio.html

FWIW.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

“The doxxing will continue until your crew stops harassing David. Though I hope they don’t; I love watching you cry.”

“Crew” is British.

And I hate to admit it, but a person from the United States isn’t at all likely to use semicolons. That piece of punctuation is little understood in the United States.

My conclusion: The doxxer is Jane Austen.

Mark Grieger
4 years ago

I’m a bit torn,
maybe she’s a bit naive, and does not deserve “shit storm”.

epitome of incomprehensibility

I don’t doubt the director found the emails annoying – I don’t like it when people criticize me either, even if it’s deserved – but to accuse David of bullying seems unfair. He pointed out the stories of feminists who were harassed and threatened, and asked her to consider them. Apparently she’s minimizing that part. I think their stories being shared and acknowledged is more important than the “right” not to get annoying criticism.

epitome of incomprehensibility

(Hmm… I didn’t mean to sound like I meant that every documentary filmmaker has the responsibility to report on everybody who’s being treated unfairly! But Jaye does seem to be ignoring an important part of her subject.)

Samantha Vimes
4 years ago

If that’s bullying, I wish people would bully me like that. You pretty much stuck to a textbook definition of constructive criticism.

Alex Williams
Alex Williams
4 years ago

I can’t understand why you no longer accept to being interviewed by her though. If you are concerned about her cherry picking what you say, video the interview yourself so you also have a copy.

After seeing the interview you mentioned, I came here to see whether she was being unfair. I see from what you have written, she was right that you are, at best, distorting facts.

Of your article above, as Shakespeare said, “the lady doth protest too much”.

Accept the interview, or accept the fact that by not doing so you are proving your detractors right.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

Hi Ophelia. Good to see you here again.

I’m a granny now!

anon
anon
4 years ago

Well you did talk about journalistic ethics.

She spends a lot of time around mras so that probably set off alarms.

Kate Minter
4 years ago

David,
Regarding CJ: if you’ve warned her, that’s all you can do. It is totally transparent to me that she is turning you (a nice guy) into a “creep” who is “bullying” her because you are concerned for her. This is textbook red pill. Now, you’ve said your piece and made it publicly clear. Let her go her own way. You are not responsible for what happens. It is a rare person (male or female) who can be fair and balanced about anything. She does not seem to be a beacon of integrity.

Re the other stuff: I’m sorry, but I can’t keep up. I will only say this. If this comment goes through, the fact that I, Kate Minter, wife of Mark Minter, am allowed free expression here ( whereas I am not at other so-called men’s rights sites who have banned me) should speak for itself. The articles I have posted on their forum are far better written and far better informed than the majority of the writing on their site. And that is a real shame because it really should be about making the lives of men better not worse.

My personal feeling about the movie is that it will amount to little. Not for reasons already stated, but because I’m not in it;) Nothing can top a story of redemption. And until the movement is about rectifying the torn fabric of society, everything will remain at a standstill.

-Kate

LG.
LG.
4 years ago

David, your supporters are rallying around you right now, so may I suggest a strategic show of strength? Namely, start a pledge drive of Mammothers to try to raise X amount for a charity/social justice cause of your choice and publicize/track it here. It would be a fitting “punishment” for these attacks that might act as a deterrent in the future while showing your enemies that your followers have your back if you need us in a real-world powerful way.

kfreed
kfreed
4 years ago

Red Pill director Cassie Jaye, funded by AVFM, was the only clue you needed to keep your distance… she’s as much a “feminist” as Sarah Palin. We’re dealing with white supremacists here. What in the world made you think she was some innocent tool sucked in by AVFM’s PR spin?

LG
LG
4 years ago

kfreed – I think David probably lives in a world where someone doesn’t have to be “innocent” in order to either (a) get in over their head or (b) be worth giving a warning to about getting in over their head.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
4 years ago

@Alex Williams

Where is David distorting facts?

I consider this article a justified defensive move. An interview by Sargon of Akkad is guaranteed to be watched by the manosphere who are only too eager to find reasons to hate on David. Putting his side of it out there may help defuse verbal attacks. Given Jack Barnes’ recent physical threats, it seems a prudent thing to do, IMO.

dhag85
4 years ago

Why is it that trolls are always so vague in their criticism. It’s always “you’re distorting facts!” but it’s never “you said X but the reality is Y and here’s a link to evidence”.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Idk you you guys saw Kate Minter’s post, but Kate, your comment was well thought out and not offensive, we tend to allow those here regardless who they come from. And hey, maybe there’s a tiny chance you’ll come around to ditching the MRM since as you say, they don’t actually help men.

brooked
4 years ago

@Alex Williams

I can’t understand why you no longer accept to being interviewed by her though. If you are concerned about her cherry picking what you say, video the interview yourself so you also have a copy.

After seeing the interview you mentioned, I came here to see whether she was being unfair. I see from what you have written, she was right that you are, at best, distorting facts.

Of your article above, as Shakespeare said, “the lady doth protest too much”.

Accept the interview, or accept the fact that by not doing so you are proving your detractors right.

While David mentioned that he and Jaye discussed well before the Kickstarter, I haven’t read anywhere that Jaye is pressing David for an interview. I don’t see how this is an issue, unless it’s discussed in the Sargon interview I ‘m not going to listen to. Life’s too short and YouTube crank interviews are way too long.

Plus, a filmmaker convinces a subject to appear in their film with an honest discussion of what the film will be. “Cherry picked” is a ridiculous term to use when film has multiple interviewees because she can only use a small fraction of what’s filmed. If someone is uncomfortable with a filmmaker’s approach they shouldn’t agree to be in their film because the filmmakers only mission is to make the movie they want to make. They aren’t required to include footage to appease every interviewees’ ego or personal interests.

Finally, as other poster mentioned, feel free to identify the facts you see being distorted.

dhag85
4 years ago

I searched WHTM for info on Mark Minter. LOL’d out loud at this:

“Oh crap, the one man wh ostands agianst marraige……destroyed by the unmerciful claws of marraige,” wrote one commenter, evidently too overwhelmed by emotion to type properly.

Haha. David’s writing style is a big part of why I love this blog.

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
4 years ago

@ Alex

“Accept the interview, or accept the fact that by not doing so you are proving your detractors right.”

Oh bless your heart. You don’t know much about logic, do you?

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

Nuh, he very likely only knows the menzlojik version.

Felix Ray
4 years ago

This movie is going to be terrible. Paul Elam is going to come off terrible, because he’s Paul Elam. Maybe they could get James Franco to play him. Basically, it’s going to be The Sarkeesian Effect, except maybe in focus.

opheliamonarch
4 years ago

@mildlymagnificent, I’m so sorry I didn’t see your post to me sooner (I only just got time to sit and finish the thread) and you probably won’t see this, but just in case.

You remember me, yay! 🙂

AND you’re a granny! Woop, woop, woop!! So pleased for you luv, that is so exciting! Congratulations.

opheliamonarch
4 years ago

Also: Kate Minter was here! (Hello Kate.). What an unusual turn of events.

Kate Minter
4 years ago

Hi. I’ve looked into this and her film a bit more and I must say I object quite strongly to seeing her prepare herself to profit from the struggles of so many men. Where are the cries of “entryist” now? I see many people jumping on the bandwagon eager for their moment in the spotlight. I actually don’t think you need to worry yourself, David. It’s her who will leave these guys in the dust. She doesn’t care about the issues. She’s just using them for her own gain. Sad.

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8 months ago

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