Jack Barnes, the notoriously hotheaded Men’s Rights Activist and longtime contributor to A Voice for Men, has escalated his attacks on me. In a post on AVFM, Barnes addressed me directly:
I’m a junkyard dog with no owner and no collar. …
Didn’t anyone ever tell you that you shouldn’t piss off a redheaded country boy from the backwoods of Tennessee? I promise you David that for the rest of your life there will be nights you cry yourself to sleep in anger and frustration over me.
In a followup post on TwitLonger, someone claiming to be Barnes — and it seems abundantly clear that it is in fact him — threatened to drive from Tennessee to Chicago to confront me in
a face to face in person discussion … No cops. No lawyers or prosecutors. No judges. No jury. No hiding behind a computer. Just me and you. …
I don’t know of any parent that would blame me for stomping a mud hole in your fucking ass and walking that motherfucker dry for what you have done!
What I have done is, in fact, nothing — nothing beyond letting the world know of some of the disturbing things Barnes has posted online.
But as Barnes sees it, I am responsible for putting his family in danger. How? Well, not long ago, someone apparently doxed Barnes, posting personal information about Barnes and his family on Twitter.
Of course, I had nothing to do with the doxing and only learned about it later from an AVFM video. I don’t know who did it, and I have publicly condemned it several times.
I will condemn it again, right here: the doxing of Jack Barnes and his family was wrong and a deeply shitty thing to do; whoever did it is a shithead and no friend of mine.
But Barnes is convinced one of my “cult followers” did the deed and bluntly warns me that ” I hold you personally responsible for this occurring.”
Even though I did not dox him, don’t know who doxed him, did not tell anyone to dox him, and have publicly denounced doxing in general and the doxing of Barnes and his family specifically.
The TwitLonger post declares:
You have crossed a line David. This is no longer about the MHRM vs feminism. This is no longer about AVFM, which I have no affiliation with, and your website. This is no longer about Paul Elam publisher of AVFM vs you as publisher of your website. You have made this personal. This is now about me vs you.
I don’t care that your little cult follower doxxed me. But when he/she doxxed my wife and little girl it became personal.
The author of the TwitLonger post, almost certainly Barnes himself, says that he will only come to Chicago for the promised “face to face in person discussion” if his family members come to harm.
But I do not have the luxury of seeing the threats as conditional ones. There are no conditions listed when he writes:
I don’t know of any parent that would blame me for stomping a mud hole in your fucking ass and walking that motherfucker dry for what you have done! Hell, I bet even Gondi would be like “he did what to you family? Fuck him up!
He is not saying that he would only be justified in “stomping a mud hole in [my] fucking ass” if something were to happen to his family; he is saying he is justified in doing so now.
Because some person who is not me, and who is unknown to me, did something I only found out about later and that I have publicly denounced.
And a possible “stomping” is not all I have to worry about: in his AVFM post, Barnes made sure I know that he
live[s] in a state with more guns than people, where a side arm is as common as a cell phone and where it is legal for 10yr olds to hunt with high powered rifles and without adult supervision.
So I can only assume that if he ever decides to pay me an unwanted visit he will be armed.
The author of the TwitLonger post — almost certainly Barnes — declares that his obvious threats against me are not in fact threats but “simply a statement of fact.” I think any reasonable person reading these posts would see them as clear threats, and I am treating them as such.
And it is plainly obvious to me that Barnes intends to terrorize me into silence with his threats — as his “promise” on AVFM that “for the rest of your life there will be nights you cry yourself to sleep” thinking about him makes abundantly clear. His threats are consistent with the threatening language he uses against feminists online, particularly on Twitter, which are clearly intended to shut his opponents up. As he put it in one notorious Tweet
https://twitter.com/Jackbarnesmra/status/559761561028669440
Adding to the surreality of this all, Barnes and his allies at A Voice for Men are so committed to their bizarre caricature of me as some kind of cartoon supervillain that they not only blame me for things I haven’t done but for not doing things that I have done. In this case, their eyes seem to have blurred over when they’ve come across the things I’ve written condemning the doxing.
In his AVFM post, Barnes wrote that while other feminists had denounced the doxing,
there was one person who has remain eerily silent about all this. That person is David Futrelle. Seems odd since all of this doxxing was done to avenge him. There is not a peep from Futrelle about this on his site or on social media anywhere that I could find. As a parent I know my kid is up to no good when she is quiet. Wonder if the same goes for adults (assuming the word applies)?
In fact, I had condemned the doxing two days earlier in a post that Barnes has publicly acknowledged reading.
On Twitter, AVFM’s “Chief Public Relations Officer” Suzy McCarley did Barnes one better, somehow managing to miss my denunciation of the doxing in a Tweet of mine that she was literally quoting at the time, leading to this rather surrealistic exchange:
It is almost as if they are so committed to seeing me as a monster that they cannot handle it when reality defies their expectations.
Another longtime AVFM supporter, so-called “Honey Badger” Hannah Wallen, has added a decidely Kafkaesque series of Tweets to the Twitter dogpile, including one that puzzled me greatly until she explained her “logic” in more detail:
Reading "If you X, I'll Y" as "I'm gonna Y!" = admitting to planning X. What have you planned to do, doxing Dave? https://t.co/93hT4Dlsaj
— Hannah Wallen | Professional Smartass (@Oneiorosgrip) November 9, 2015
Eventually, I was able to understand that she was taking my concern over Barnes’ threats … as proof that I was planning to harm his family.
She explained her “logic” in a blog post I discovered later. Utterly ignoring my denunciations of the doxing, and of doxing in general, she declared that if i didn’t immediately “admit”that my worries about Barnes’ threats were “a completely irrational overreaction to being held responsible for the effects of his dishonest shit stirring on his followers” I was essentially admitting that I was planning some sort of attack on Barnes’ family:
[H]is current response indicates .. that he intends for harm to come Jack’s family as a result of his shit stirring, that he DOES encourage his readers to engage in this type of behavior, and that he DOES intend for one or more of his readers to respond to his writing by engaging in violence against HIS political opponents.
After all, “If X, then Y” only infers Y on the condition of X… so responding to “If you X, then I’ll Y” as if the individual has only stated “I’m going to Y” is an admission that you’ve planned on X happening.
This, I have to admit, is pretty ingenious. Kafka would be proud.
But just in case anyone thinks there is anything to Wallen’s sophistry: I do not support doxing in general, and have made this clear on numerous occasions. I did not, do not, will not support the doxing of Jack Barnes or his family, nor do I have the slightest idea who did it. I do not “intend … for harm to come [to] Jack’s family” or to him. (Indeed, I don’t even know where they live; not only did I have nothing to do with the doxing of Barnes and his family, I didn’t even know about it until after the doxing tweets were deleted.) I do not support violence against my political opponents.
All of this is obvious to anyone who actually reads what I write on this blog without their perceptions distorted by MRA-induced prejudice or preconceptions.
That said, I will not apologize for taking Barnes’ threats seriously.
Nor will I apologize for exposing misogynistic Men’s Rights activists to the light of day — not by “shit stirring” or engaging in Wallen-esque sophistry, but by quoting their own words and reporting their real deeds.
And when people harass and threaten me — whether that’s Barnes, those at AVFM who have aided and abetted his threats, or anyone else — I will take every legal step I feel is necessary for my safety and the safety of others.
This post is one of those steps.
Mockingbird I really don’t like @joe’s statement, it feels rather inflammatory to me. Making it sound as though a mamotheer is actually going to do something regrettable.
@schadrach
You are an idiot.
Dave,
Consider that at least some of these folds are ignoring what you say intentionally because they are violent hotheads who simply want a punching bag. There is no logic to bullying, and this should be reported to law enforcement discreetly.
I’m about as afraid to announce publicly that I’m a feminist as I am to mention that I don’t own any slaves.
Uh, Jack? You can’t be a “junkyard dog with no owner.” A junkyard dog is, by definition, owned by the manager of a junkyard. What you’re thinking of is a stray, which seems more appropriate than you perhaps intended.
Fact 1: Jack Barnes’ information has been made public. It was immoral for someone to have done that and whoever did it should be punished, but nevertheless, his information is public.
Fact 2: Jack Barnes has publicly threatened David Futrelle, specifically staying his desire to physically assault him AND tacitly suggesting he would be illegally armed with a firearm (they’re illegal in Chicago) when he did so.
Fact 3: If any harm ever comes to David Futrelle, it strikes me that there would be prima facie evidence in the form of motive and opportunity to investigate Mr. Barnes as suspect #1.
Fact 4: Since Mr. Barnes has a family, I assume he doesn’t want to make an obvious follow-through on an obvious threat that will land him either in prison for life without mercy or in a gas chamber serving a death sentence, surely it is very unlikely he will do anything physically damaging to David.
Given these facts/surmisals, I would conclude that if Mr. Barnes takes any action against David at all (other than chest thumping to drive up his online traffic and whip MRAs into a tizzy), it will take the form of a DDOS on his website, defamation that can’t be traced easily, etc.
This would be a nuisance, but not threatening ultimately.
What? What makes you think David is responsible for this other than Jack’s say so? This is a huge leap to make. You’re saying that because Jack Barnes thinks, without any evidence, that David or one of his readers doxxed him, that means misogyny should be tolerated and feminism, which is a movement far older than the MRM by the way, is somehow inherently flawed.
That just makes no sense.
– schadrach
Tell that to the people David write abut then – ’cause all he really does is show the world the misogynists own words – it’s mostly *quotes* with added comments, snark and kitty-pics to make it less horrible.
I’m not too comfortable with all the comments saying he’s just a blowhard who won’t follow through with any threats. It’s probably true, and I’m sure it’s meant to be reassuring. But it comes a little too close for comfort to the argument that nothing should be done about internet harassment because it’s not real life. Even if it’s a small chance a threat will be taken out, they should always be treated seriously.
Soon they’ll probably interpret your use of the phrase “ninjaed!” to mean that you’re threatening to send ninjas against them …
I agree with WWTH. A threat is a threat and there are plenty of laws to deal with threats. The medium is irrelevant, its the intent if the message (sorry Marshal McLuhan this time it’s the other way round).
What you do is important, David, and you have been standing tall. That said, there is no shame in backing off here and letting law enforcement look into things a bit.before you bring up this joker again.
@promisedlandpastor
‘Fact 4: Since Mr. Barnes has a family, I assume he doesn’t want to make an obvious follow-through on an obvious threat that will land him either in prison for life without mercy or in a gas chamber serving a death sentence, surely it is very unlikely he will do anything physically damaging to David.’
An assumption is not a fact – it is your opinion.
And of course the comments on the AVFM article are full of projection, assertions that David is a sociopath, and for some reason a thread about how feminists only oppose rape because we secretly want to be raped.
@auto “Mockingbird I really don’t like @joe’s statement, it feels rather inflammatory to me. Making it sound as though a mamotheer is actually going to do something regrettable.”
Thirded. We have no proof or even reasonable suspicion that Barnes is abusive or neglectful towards his daughter, and we won’t get it through the Internet. He can be a sexist, angry jerk and still be a good enough father. CPS is every parent’s (and child’s) worst nightmare, and we shouldn’t be condoning threats.
Hi everyone, its my first post here (been lurking for a while)- I just wish it was under slightly lighter circumstances than this. Anyway, just wanted to voice my support too, David- you do an absolutely brilliant job exposing the things these hateful bigots do and say, and I wish you well in facing their wild accusations and threats.
Jack Barnes (along with the other MRA leader figures) is clearly scared that they know deep down that they will never be able to dent feminism in any way, and they will be long forgotten while feminism will stay in the history books. Your efforts in documenting their hate speech have angered them so much that they now resort to blaming you for something you’ve explicitly condemned multiple times- I find it difficult to understand just how people can think like this- its utterly baffling.
Anyway, I sincerely doubt that Barnes will follow through at all, but I hope you’re safe, and feeling safe- he’s definitely broken laws with this.
Wow, this thread got going quickly 🙂 I also want to say thanks to David for doing everything you do – even though it covers really distressing subject matter, this blog is great for having gathered a community that can support each other and make fun of these so-called people rather than be intimidated by them.
Jack’s tone in his post is an uncanny mixture of really frightening and absolutely laughable – it’s the kind of threats a twelve year old might make (an impression furthered by things like not knowing how to spell “Gondi”) but from an adult, this is disturbing stuff. I hope that you can take whatever steps are necessary to protect yourself from coming to harm.
These people, born in a position of privilege, so desperately want to be oppressed – I think they must see women getting support against people like them and just want to draw some of that attention back to themselves. What kind of disconnect do you have to have to say that feminists can’t take a joke or are just doing it for attention, and then say “ooh, I’ve prearranged funerals for my family”?
I often wish I could do more to support you and your message, but in the meantime, thanks for highlighting these dreadful people, for allowing us to laugh at them as they so richly deserve, and for being a David 🙂
How exactly do you know they are one and the same person, to begin with?
David has stated many times, every time he wrote about do**ing actually, that do**ing is wrong and no one should be subject to it.
Nobody here is ok with do**ing anyone, ever, for any reason, punto.
Trolls come often trying to bait the people here into agreeing with doxxing or other harmful and/or abusive actions, and they are shown the door like the willfully idiots they are.
Which is probably what will happen to you if you insist on pretending facts don’t matter and words don’t mean things.
[I’m using ** because I’m fond of the letter X and can’t bring myself to type it twice in a row for such a horrible meaning, so I’m saving them]
@Joe
I’ll echo the thought that you never can tell how people are going to act in areas of life different to the ones they are hateful bigots in- there were self-proclaimed Quaker members of the KKK even! (A religion centred around pacifism and everyone being equal combined with violence and racism- it makes no sense whatsoever, but people are complicated.)
While I would think Barnes is mean to his family, I agree it wouldn’t necessarily be a given.
I do also wish for Barnes and his family’s safety- I mean, practically no one outside the manosphere knows who he is, so if you’re reading this Jack, you’re hopefully unlikely to come to harm but as I said to David, I still hope you and your family feel and are safe- like everyone else including David has already wished.
Definitely further on the *NOT* involving child protection services, or indeed anyone here making any communications with the authorities.
It just plays into Barnes’ hands.
It’ll be taken as evidence that David has a team of minions ready to do harm to his opponents at his whim, or alternatively a bunch of cultists that David can’t control. They’ll use that as evidential support for the initial doxxing allegation.
Secondly, they’ll see it as equivalent to ‘swatting’.
Thirdly they’ll see it as justification for getting the authorities involved on Barnes behalf and we’ll just have David getting swatted.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, David. I hope everyone involved (including Jack and Suzy) remains safe and that the whole thing de-escalates soon.
Another reader and lurker coming out to show support for you and WHTH, David. You have consistently and vociferously denounced doxxing and any vigilante attempts to “punish” your ideological opponents. It’s just not who you are, or how you have comported yourself.
And really, anybody who sat down and thought this whole thing through would realize that. But this rant of his isn’t about the doxxing, or Barnes feeling threatened. It’s about using this bad thing as a club to justify further abuse under “both sides do it”. It doesn’t matter that he has no proof; because proof would only hurt his Jenga tower of justifications.
Funnily enough, I was watching Innuendo Studios’ “Why Are You So Angry?” series, when I clicked over and saw this. “Angry Jack” indeed…
@Schadrach,
this situation is very different to the ongoing spat between Thunderf00t and Laughing Witch.
Thunderf00t has a personal grudge against LW because back in January she took part in a letter writing campaign against him (which didn’t have any effect on his life). He’s recently decided to take revenge by posting her business details on his YouTube channel and encouraging people to leave her negative reviews, hundreds of people are now flooding review web sites with fake bad reviews with the intention of destroying her business, many of them referencing Thunderf00t, thus proving there’s a connection. TF has now made four videos specifically targeting LW and stirring up more harassment, when he could just as easily make a video urging his followers to quit.
David has never doxxed Jack Barnes on this blog, and has never urged anyone else to do so. In fact this blog and its comment section always condemns doxxing and threats of violence. There is no known connection between the person who released Barnes’ info and this blog. As far as we know, Barnes is not currently being subjected to any kind of harassment or specific threats and no one here is suggesting he should be. David has repeatedly condemned any such actions.
AVFM is once again attempting to construct a false narrative where lies and half truths are repeated until they sound plausible to their followers. These accusations are as spurious as when they accused David of being a pedophile, on the basis that he once wrote an article which didn’t call for the banning of the film ‘Salo’ (which depicts simulated acts of violence against teenagers).
TL;DR: David’s done nothing wrong and AVFM are lying, again.
Ditto on the leaving Barnes’ family well alone, child services have no place in any of this. As Alan says, that could be construed as SWATting which is worse than doxxing. Also, just because the guy’s a shit head doesn’t mean he’s a danger to his family.
I hope you’re not in any personal danger, David.