Jack Barnes, the notoriously hotheaded Men’s Rights Activist and longtime contributor to A Voice for Men, has escalated his attacks on me. In a post on AVFM, Barnes addressed me directly:
I’m a junkyard dog with no owner and no collar. …
Didn’t anyone ever tell you that you shouldn’t piss off a redheaded country boy from the backwoods of Tennessee? I promise you David that for the rest of your life there will be nights you cry yourself to sleep in anger and frustration over me.
In a followup post on TwitLonger, someone claiming to be Barnes — and it seems abundantly clear that it is in fact him — threatened to drive from Tennessee to Chicago to confront me in
a face to face in person discussion … No cops. No lawyers or prosecutors. No judges. No jury. No hiding behind a computer. Just me and you. …
I don’t know of any parent that would blame me for stomping a mud hole in your fucking ass and walking that motherfucker dry for what you have done!
What I have done is, in fact, nothing — nothing beyond letting the world know of some of the disturbing things Barnes has posted online.
But as Barnes sees it, I am responsible for putting his family in danger. How? Well, not long ago, someone apparently doxed Barnes, posting personal information about Barnes and his family on Twitter.
Of course, I had nothing to do with the doxing and only learned about it later from an AVFM video. I don’t know who did it, and I have publicly condemned it several times.
I will condemn it again, right here: the doxing of Jack Barnes and his family was wrong and a deeply shitty thing to do; whoever did it is a shithead and no friend of mine.
But Barnes is convinced one of my “cult followers” did the deed and bluntly warns me that ” I hold you personally responsible for this occurring.”
Even though I did not dox him, don’t know who doxed him, did not tell anyone to dox him, and have publicly denounced doxing in general and the doxing of Barnes and his family specifically.
The TwitLonger post declares:
You have crossed a line David. This is no longer about the MHRM vs feminism. This is no longer about AVFM, which I have no affiliation with, and your website. This is no longer about Paul Elam publisher of AVFM vs you as publisher of your website. You have made this personal. This is now about me vs you.
I don’t care that your little cult follower doxxed me. But when he/she doxxed my wife and little girl it became personal.
The author of the TwitLonger post, almost certainly Barnes himself, says that he will only come to Chicago for the promised “face to face in person discussion” if his family members come to harm.
But I do not have the luxury of seeing the threats as conditional ones. There are no conditions listed when he writes:
I don’t know of any parent that would blame me for stomping a mud hole in your fucking ass and walking that motherfucker dry for what you have done! Hell, I bet even Gondi would be like “he did what to you family? Fuck him up!
He is not saying that he would only be justified in “stomping a mud hole in [my] fucking ass” if something were to happen to his family; he is saying he is justified in doing so now.
Because some person who is not me, and who is unknown to me, did something I only found out about later and that I have publicly denounced.
And a possible “stomping” is not all I have to worry about: in his AVFM post, Barnes made sure I know that he
live[s] in a state with more guns than people, where a side arm is as common as a cell phone and where it is legal for 10yr olds to hunt with high powered rifles and without adult supervision.
So I can only assume that if he ever decides to pay me an unwanted visit he will be armed.
The author of the TwitLonger post — almost certainly Barnes — declares that his obvious threats against me are not in fact threats but “simply a statement of fact.” I think any reasonable person reading these posts would see them as clear threats, and I am treating them as such.
And it is plainly obvious to me that Barnes intends to terrorize me into silence with his threats — as his “promise” on AVFM that “for the rest of your life there will be nights you cry yourself to sleep” thinking about him makes abundantly clear. His threats are consistent with the threatening language he uses against feminists online, particularly on Twitter, which are clearly intended to shut his opponents up. As he put it in one notorious Tweet
https://twitter.com/Jackbarnesmra/status/559761561028669440
Adding to the surreality of this all, Barnes and his allies at A Voice for Men are so committed to their bizarre caricature of me as some kind of cartoon supervillain that they not only blame me for things I haven’t done but for not doing things that I have done. In this case, their eyes seem to have blurred over when they’ve come across the things I’ve written condemning the doxing.
In his AVFM post, Barnes wrote that while other feminists had denounced the doxing,
there was one person who has remain eerily silent about all this. That person is David Futrelle. Seems odd since all of this doxxing was done to avenge him. There is not a peep from Futrelle about this on his site or on social media anywhere that I could find. As a parent I know my kid is up to no good when she is quiet. Wonder if the same goes for adults (assuming the word applies)?
In fact, I had condemned the doxing two days earlier in a post that Barnes has publicly acknowledged reading.
On Twitter, AVFM’s “Chief Public Relations Officer” Suzy McCarley did Barnes one better, somehow managing to miss my denunciation of the doxing in a Tweet of mine that she was literally quoting at the time, leading to this rather surrealistic exchange:
It is almost as if they are so committed to seeing me as a monster that they cannot handle it when reality defies their expectations.
Another longtime AVFM supporter, so-called “Honey Badger” Hannah Wallen, has added a decidely Kafkaesque series of Tweets to the Twitter dogpile, including one that puzzled me greatly until she explained her “logic” in more detail:
Reading "If you X, I'll Y" as "I'm gonna Y!" = admitting to planning X. What have you planned to do, doxing Dave? https://t.co/93hT4Dlsaj
— Hannah Wallen | Professional Smartass (@Oneiorosgrip) November 9, 2015
Eventually, I was able to understand that she was taking my concern over Barnes’ threats … as proof that I was planning to harm his family.
She explained her “logic” in a blog post I discovered later. Utterly ignoring my denunciations of the doxing, and of doxing in general, she declared that if i didn’t immediately “admit”that my worries about Barnes’ threats were “a completely irrational overreaction to being held responsible for the effects of his dishonest shit stirring on his followers” I was essentially admitting that I was planning some sort of attack on Barnes’ family:
[H]is current response indicates .. that he intends for harm to come Jack’s family as a result of his shit stirring, that he DOES encourage his readers to engage in this type of behavior, and that he DOES intend for one or more of his readers to respond to his writing by engaging in violence against HIS political opponents.
After all, “If X, then Y” only infers Y on the condition of X… so responding to “If you X, then I’ll Y” as if the individual has only stated “I’m going to Y” is an admission that you’ve planned on X happening.
This, I have to admit, is pretty ingenious. Kafka would be proud.
But just in case anyone thinks there is anything to Wallen’s sophistry: I do not support doxing in general, and have made this clear on numerous occasions. I did not, do not, will not support the doxing of Jack Barnes or his family, nor do I have the slightest idea who did it. I do not “intend … for harm to come [to] Jack’s family” or to him. (Indeed, I don’t even know where they live; not only did I have nothing to do with the doxing of Barnes and his family, I didn’t even know about it until after the doxing tweets were deleted.) I do not support violence against my political opponents.
All of this is obvious to anyone who actually reads what I write on this blog without their perceptions distorted by MRA-induced prejudice or preconceptions.
That said, I will not apologize for taking Barnes’ threats seriously.
Nor will I apologize for exposing misogynistic Men’s Rights activists to the light of day — not by “shit stirring” or engaging in Wallen-esque sophistry, but by quoting their own words and reporting their real deeds.
And when people harass and threaten me — whether that’s Barnes, those at AVFM who have aided and abetted his threats, or anyone else — I will take every legal step I feel is necessary for my safety and the safety of others.
This post is one of those steps.
Adding in my voice of support David, agreement with the consensus that doxxing is wrong, the person who did it is an immoral asshole. I have seen nothing from David or the vast majority of commentators here that it, or the potential harassment resulting from that, ever acceptable. Also agree that the call for CPS was deserving of a ban. Outsourcing harassment to the state is despicable.
And none of that excuses Jack Barnes and his supporters for being violent bullies, liars, and overall shitty excuses for human beings.
@Fruitloopsie
The link to the doxxing website happened around the time ABC was planning to do a 20/20 show on men’s rights. That was a couple of years ago, I guess.
The sexual assault video was in an AVFM post made on May 19, 2014 in an article written by Dean Esmay. I reported it to the FBI and nothing happened.
@schadrach:
If people were to restrict their speech because some random third-party issued a threat in their name, then that would encourage assholes to issues threats in the name of people they didn’t like in order to get them to restrict their speech.
Hi David. FWIW, I’m another feminist adding my name to this long list of your supporters. I’ve learned so much about fairness and morality and bravery on this website; I genuinely appreciate what you do and how you do it. Stay safe, stay well – best of luck.
I find if belieavable that Barnes would react the way he has if he’s worried for his family – It’s not a justification for his actions, but I can see how someone in this situation might not react in the most sensible way.
As for the other MRAs, I don’t think their reaction is even remotely fair. They might even be giving sensible advice to Barnes, but the way they’re behaving like they’re looking for a fight. Anyone who reads your blog knows that you don’t condone doxxing.
Anyway, stay safe, David. I also don’t think he will do anything more drastic against you, but ignoring threats doesn’t help anybody.
And I can’t deal with the “Gondi”.
I’m sorry you have to deal with this bullshit, Dave.
If It’s any consolation, Barnes is the biggest try-hard internet tough guy lolcow I’ve seen in years. His whole persona screams “I was pantsed in the sixth grade and never got over it”.
I am so sorry you have to deal with this stress. Thank you for all you do. You are appreciated hugely.
Just wanted to chime in to add my support and thanks for all you do, David.
Haven’t commented here much, but you’ve made me laugh instead of rage at this bullshit more times than I can count. Thank you, David! Please take care of yourself and try not to forget that you aren’t alone and that billions and billions (I kept careful count!) of us care about your well-being and will help you in any way we can.
Barnes:
“We’re not going to stop until no one will openly admit to being feminist”
This coward needs to hide behind his guns and computer while threatening people in order to make his useless dream come true? He has already lost, he’s just too stupid to realize it.
There is no chance in hell your dream is going to come true, Barnes. None. It’s been tried by “better” people than you than you, for like ever. They failed and so will you.
People will always disagree with you and you can’t threaten us all into silence forever. You’d be better off if you just learned to live with the terrible injustice of people disagreeing with you.
What happens on that day when every single femminist on the planet is afraid to say so, anyway? Does Barnes finally get a good night sleep? Does he breathe a sigh of relief and go back to playing with his boogers in the Tennessee dirt or whatever the fuck he does when he’s not threatening people on online?
Do he and Theodore Shoebat high-five and move on to stoning gay people and burning witches and infidels? What the actual fuck does he actually think will happen? Will the sky be bluer? Will unicorns finally be able manifest themselves after a few terrible decades of femminist psychic oppression?
More importantly, why does he even think that getting people to not verbally disagree with him is an attainable (forget worthwhile) goal? It’s just baffling. And did he really compare himself to a threatening animal? Who lives in a place where shooting at *anything* is, according to him, a hobby of feral children with guns bigger than they are? I don’t even know what to do with that, except to assume that this was not the mixed metaphor he was looking for.
Ugh, anyway, take care David and best of luck to you in dealing with this. Let us know if you need help, because we will 🙂
@ObviousHijinks (page 3),
That might be the last post with his name in the title, but there is a post about Barnes from Oct 30 titled:
A self-described harasser and abuser of feminists is accusing me of threatening Cassie Jaye
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/10/30/a-self-described-harasser-and-abuser-of-feminists-is-accusing-me-of-threatening-cassie-jaye/
So that was not long before he got doxxed.
@sbel
And…?
Standing with the rest in hoping this shitshow resolves itself well, David, and that it’s the frothy mass of sound and fury signifying nothing that I think it is. Thank you for keeping on keeping on, because it’s proof cockroaches can’t stand the sun, and the Devil cannot stand to be mocked. These turdblossoms cannot stand to be ridiculed even when they’re at their most ridiculous and exposed, which says quite a lot about them, none of it good.
Stay safe and we’re thinking about ye.
@Chiomara
And what? Someone thought that the last post about Barnes was in February. I explained that there is a more recent post about Barnes. There is no and.
Yet another long time lurker and proud Feminist here, I wish you good luck in your dealing with that horrible human being that is Jack Barnes.
Auntie Alias
“The link to the doxxing website happened around the time ABC was planning to do a 20/20 show on men’s rights. That was a couple of years ago, I guess.
The sexual assault video was in an AVFM post made on May 19, 2014 in an article written by Dean Esmay. I reported it to the FBI and nothing happened.”
Thanks. It’s awful that these happened and you couldn’t get the FBI in this. Speaking of child rape I guess JB has never read any post written by Warren Farrel who believes it’s ok for fathers to “have relationships” with their daughters. (Correct me if I’m wrong)
@bvh You’re assuming that if the doxxer was able to get the guy’s IRL name he would somehow be incapable of going to Facebook.com, inputting the dude’s real name and identifying the person who matches the name, location, and history of the person he doxxed? Come on now. The picture is immaterial because Jack Barnes could have a variety of PRIVATE social media accounts where he has photos of himself, his family, etc. This is why I post almost no photos on my facebook.com account at all and why I have my account set to require my permission before allowing tags (I never give it) of my image in other people’s photos. In short, I don’t want to be an easy target for doxxing and other forms of social media manipulation in the future should I ever be in a situation where it would be lucrative for someone to dox me and attempt extortion or coercion with it. Screw that.
@Fruitloopsie
It wasn’t stated quite as blatantly as that. I don’t remember the wording and I’m too weary to go looking for it. Sorry.
Gondi would be a great nickhame for Civ!Gandhi.
@SFHC
OMG I just learned of the infamous Ghandi-the-warmongler bug in the Civ games (thanks to cracked). Hilarious, I love it when video games bugs create stories of their own!
Sorry you have to deal with idiots like that. I appreciate your blog and honesty.
Hello.
Hope you are safe, Mr Futrelle.
They try to pose you as some kind of cult guru, but well, eye, straw, beam, and so on.
They turn extremists, like in a sect, and that is not reassuring. It is impossible to reason with them, as they are in a ciruclar logic, fed by their own informations and mala fida. I hope no harm will be done.
Have a nice day.
Wow…I know I shouldn’t be laughing at any of this, because their behavior is sick and disgusting, but I just find it hilarious how clearly TERRIFIED they are of you! Not because you have threatened their safety, in fact I’m 100% certain that not a single one of them seriously believes you will cause them harm in any direct or indirect way, but because you threaten their beliefs.
You are one guy running a blog and it’s doing better than their entire site run by a large staff of people. You expose the real MRM by simply displaying the things they say and do publicly, on your blog that gets more traffic than their site, and that terrifies them because they know they can’t stop setting terrible examples for themselves because they can’t grow up. So instead they desperately look for ways to discredit you and paint you as the bad guy, because they want people to distrust you, because they are afraid of you. Remember how pathetic it was when they claimed that you posting the crap they say is the same as you trying to kill them? This is no different, just wild accusations based on sloppy logical gymnastics, in a frantically flailing attempt to excuse their own need to threaten enemies who they aren’t smart enough to actually debate.
Or to put it in a way they can understand, they want to make A = B according to C because A shows C that D = B and therefore (C + D) – [A /(DB)] = D.QJ%
A: Futrelle, B: evil, C: the public, D: MRAs, Q: Batman, J: pineapple
Sorry so late to the party but I wanted to say that you have my upmost support, David.
I’ve been reading this blog since April of 2012 and not once since that time have I ever read David or the mammotheers advocating doxing. This has been a consistent opinion here anytime the subject of doxing has come up, so what gives with Jack? Avfn have repeatedly been okay with doxing, so would it be out of the realm of possibility that it is his own people doing this?
Anyway, stay safe David.
@gosuamakenatek
Yes! And thank you. You’ve hit on an important point, perhaps the most important point. The MRM is running scared, and they’re flailing about desperately in a bid for continued attention and a positive cash flow. They’re frightened of the logic that David and the commenters bring to discussions of the MRM.
The energy they spend torturing logic in just one Tweet (poor logic — luckily, it’s made of stern stuff) could, in my estimation, heat or cool a major city for a day. If only we could harness this energy for good!
Let me get this straight. The guy’s 6-year-old daughter was doxxed in a creepy Twitter trantrum. And you are surprised that his reaction is a bit over the top? Are any of you people parents of small children? Or is the whole human race just an abstraction to you?
I was thinking about this today and I realized Barnes reaction is a prime example of the effects of Toxic Masculinity. His immediate reaction is one of threats and implied violence. It reminds me of so many narratives of “someone harmed dudes family and he takes matters into his own hands and gets revenge” that is pushed on society. Telling men this is the proper reaction to bad things happening to them is how we get situations like this.