I found this insightful manosphere graphic on the Blue Pill Subreddit; it seems to have originally come from a blog called “Females exposed.”
I hope all the women reading this will see this as the challenge that it is: Gotta Catch ’em All!
Click the pic for a much larger and far more readable version.
Oh, and if you’re wondering how many types of women — er, “females” — there are, apparently there is only one, at least according to Females exposed.
Including the link might have been helpful… https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/10/28/gamergaters-applaud-hiring-of-fake-gamer-as-breitbart-tech-editor/comment-page-2/#comment-825459
Thanks Viscaria, that helps me understand. That is a gross thing to say (and it was indeed in a thread I wasn’t following).
Katz — it’s a pattern of annoying small stuff that could be that sort of bullheadedness you see in younger activists, or could be plain stupidity, or trolling. Nothing outright bannable, just lots of eyebrows heading up the forehead. One conversation about trans people that I really wish I could remember the details of but am mentally stuck on “oh, you have trans friends, I’m glad to see that means I’m wrong”.
Love how the “fuck buddy” is with a motorcycle. The manosphere is in love with that trope.
Thanks Viscara, you ninja’ed me with a link!
Viscaria even >.<
Hmm. I have had many friends with benefits in my day (woo!) and none of them were stereotypical bad boy hunks. Dangit.
And would it kill these MRArtistes to take a basic graphic design course? COME ON.
on the issue of migrants and European politics: the thing I will say that needs to be acknowledged in such discussions is that some people are viewing it as Americans (like myself) while there really is different situations in Europe. Remember that in Europe, the language of “cultural traditionalism”, or however else it might be phrased, is not necessarily double-speak for racism as it so often is here in the USA.
Now that said, I would also imagine that racists on the European political right-wing are just as eager to co-opt concepts of culture and tradition as they are here. Politics and culture in the world of 2015 in general are fucked up (if you ask me, anyways), and can sometimes require a lot of untangling
W, people who have cultures and traditions generally like to hold on to them. The positive ones at least. I’m a culturephile myself and love traveling and learning about cultures that are similar to and vastly different from my own. I hate it when I see positive aspects of a culture replaced by negative aspects of another culture but I love to see positive aspects of another culture added to the positive aspects of a culture. I know how a lot of the guys from my own culture feel about “western women” and its wrong. I could go into details about the f*ck ups in my own family and the hard feminist lessons they had to learn when they came to the west but I won’t. I’m just glad there are countries on this planet who have made advances for women far beyond what my own country of origin has. I would never want to replace these female-friendly positives of western cultures with the negatives of my own culture. But I do like to mix and match the positives from both. But lets not kid anyone that all cultures are the same or equal in all respects. There’s a world of difference between Sweden and the village my grandmother hails from with regard to womens’ freedoms.
yep, I agree insofar as I am able (you’re talking about family/personal experiences, which obviously I can’t speak to)
I imagine there is whole cohorts of European anthropology students writing essays on these very kind of things at this very moment. Speaking of which, we (now I’m referring to myself, as an anthro student) should really be trying to write more pop-science geared books and collections of essays to engage the public on these kind of things. I’m making myself and my field look bad here, but I can’t even name any popular writers of recent times off the top of my head…Margaret Mead is usually the author who gets championed as one of anthro’s best popular writers, and she died about 40 years ago
@katz HA!
None taken. I’m an ethnic German whose mother was an ethnic German also…and a refugee. From the not-then-former-yet Yugoslavia. In Germany, just post-WWII. And they were shitty to her and her family then, too. Fear, snobbery, and resentment, the whole nine yards. Glad I was born in Canada, where refugees aren’t automagically regarded by everyone as worse than dirt. Glad my folks both emigrated because they found post-war Germany downright stifling.
And yeah, I’m side-eyeing all this “it’s only natural” shit, too. Just because people do something reflexively (or unreflectingly) doesn’t mean it’s “natural”. Nobody is born a xenophobe; it’s learned behavior, however unconsciously it may have been absorbed. Fuck off with all apologia for that shit.
Fuck off, racist troll.
“And yeah, I’m side-eyeing all this “it’s only natural” shit, too.”
Yeah, using it as a justification really is shit, though from a neurological view it is natural — in group vs out group is def. a thing. But not one that is even remotely easy to sort (see recent discussions of who exactly is white f’ex) — yeah, the brain very very quickly sorts into “like me, not like me”, but using that unconscious response to fucking everything to justify factually wrong opinions? Please see discussion on other thread about primates, cuz the ability for reason to trump those hard wired responses is kinda an important human trait.
Shorter version: just cuz it’s natural doesn’t mean it’s good. That’s a proper fallacy with fancy Latin.
RE: VOoT
She hasn’t been explicitly trollish, but there have been a lot of comments of hers that I’ve given the side-eye.
The one that stands out to me was when I shared a shory about a creepy work aquantaince and got a reply of “oh he was probably just ignorant/culturally unaware that what he was doing was inappropriate, you should have told him what he was doing wrong and maybe given him tips on how to pick up ladies appropriately!” https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/10/21/are-you-a-virgin-flesh-and-a-thousand-other-creepy-messages-from-creepy-creepers/comment-page-2/#comment-822935
But I seemed to be the only one taking exception to that comment on the thread, so maybe I overreacted, who knows.
She’s made a few other victim-blamey posts, and one transphobic one that’s already been linked.
What got me thinking that Virtually’s a troll – or a white feminist, but frankly, who cares about the difference – is their obsession with Roosh being “A Muslim” and blaming all of his rapey behaviour on that. Which is a dozen types of wrong, untrue and WTF at once. Here’s a link to one post, but it happened a few times.
Nothing overly huge, but it’s annoyance by a thousand papercuts.
@Chiomara
Hey, come back. I think Katz was just confused and came off a bit snippier than she meant to. ^^;
Virtually also made a comment in the other thread about how it’s more ok to stalk non-attractive women than attractive women..
The thing that really makes my trolldar beep is how they consistently ignore any comments questioning their trollery. They seem to be able to read and respond to other comments, but as soon as they said something especially outrageous they suddenly seem blind to replies.
^Yup, that too. I’m not sure if she’s even apologized for the thinngs she’s been called out on, either. Maybe there were some “Well, I’m sorry you were offended” kinds of things, but otherwise I’m recalling nothing of the sort.
@Catalpa
You weren’t the only one side-eyeing VooT’s reply to your story. I also thought it was… an interesting angle to explore, for a lack of a better description.
@SFHC
Isn’t this a bit inappropriate? You realize that you are implying that German people are more inclined to commit genocide than other nationalities, right? Otherwise how is that relevant for the credibility of studies done in Germany? If you believe the studies should be ignored because you think they are unscientific, please say so.
Especially since by your logic, any studies related to racism done in US and Canada should also be discounted.
I agree that the bursts of racism we are seeing in Europe are horrible, especially since this crisis didn’t create them but just brought existing problems to the forefront.
ok, but why might someone think like this though? In the context of politics, culture, and as Argenti Aertheri points out, even complicating factors at the cognitive level (very human tendencies to over-categorize just about everything). We can ‘reason’ our way out of oversimplifying any of these things all we want, but the fact is you don’t know someone else’s personal experiences and what meanings they might attach to such a broad ideology/group as Islam. Islam IS associated with ‘regressive cultural practices’, to put it lightly, as are religions in the US, even if only a subset of the population actually engages in these practices. How do you know that this person has not had experiences with something like that?
@Verily
Yeah, I kinda meant it as a low-hanging fruit of a bad joke, but you’re right, I went too far with it. Sorry. ^^;
@W
On the opposite side of that, nope, I stand by what I said about Virtually. I don’t buy into the “Personal experiences” excuse for racism; it’s lazy-ass thinking and it only results in tragedy. I mean, hey, a police officer might have had a run-in with a black street gang, but that doesn’t give him any fucking reason to gun an innocent black kid down in the street. (And that’s exactly the excuse a lot of cops use, so yes, it’s a relevant comparison.) And besides, Roosh isn’t Muslim and is in fact a violent Islamophobe, so it’s completely irrelevant anyway.
@Chiomara:
For what it’s worth I don’t think anything you said is objectionable, and it’s nice to have people able to give insights from outside our (often deafening) Anglosphere echo chamber. If you become a passive reader that’s your choice, but if you continue to comment that would make me happy.
Re Virtually:
For what it’s worth I don’t think she’s a bad-faith poster. I think she’s a good-faith poster with a number of extremely objectionable opinions, who has difficulty accepting people disagreeing with her and copes with it by doubling down rather than by self-examination. That’s not perfect, but I wouldn’t like it to be a bannable offence – we were all like that once and the best way to help people is, in my opinion, to continue to engage.
What I’ve seen – for example in the other thread with autosoma – is her engaging as a kind, thoughtful, funny person; and that speaks well of her.
That said, I don’t feel personally insulted by her either. If anyone does feel personally insulted and wants to call for a ban then I’ll shut my overprivileged mouth.
To speak directly to you, Virtually, instead of about you: I feel you might get a far better response if you made a personal list of “stuff I believe but do not say.” I have one of those too – I’m a huge Christopher Hitchens fan, for example, but I know that he’s in bad favour in many places so I keep that to myself.
The pattern I see with Muslim immigrants and refugees here is that the men want to (or, frankly, have to) get a job as a truck driver, bus driver, delivery guy, construction worker, etc, and the women want to study and get a career. In many cases this hasn’t been an option previously. Obviously, some still want to stay home with the kids (especially if they’re already a bit older), but I would say the majority are eager to learn the language, get an education, and get to work.
I’ve also been amazed by their willingness to accept things like same sex marriage, marriage across different ethnicities and religions, the theory of evolution, learning about other religions, the age of the eart, etc. The general stereotype of how Middle Eastern Muslims are supposed to behave would have led me to believe differently, but in reality I’ve only had it happened twice that someone has strongly protested any of these topics (both times it was men, and one of them was a Christian from Serbia).