Pickup artist and rape legalization proponent Roosh Valizadeh continues his attempts to woo the white supremacist crowd.
This past weekend, he attended the annual conference of the white supremacist National Policy Institute with his longtime pal Matt Forney, the odious fat-shaming blogger who is himself a little big-boned, if one’s belly counts as a bone.
Roosh tried to butter up the white power crowd with a bit of flattery:
https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/660597239790858241
But his attendance at the conference didn’t go over well with everyone on the racist right. When Forney Tweeted the pic above of him and Roosh at the conference, some suggested that Roosh wasn’t white enough to be a white supremacist.
Others were a bit, er, less polite in their rejection of Roosh.
Oh, but there’s more.
Torsten seems to have a bit of a hate-boner for Roosh.
https://twitter.com/tor_sjoberg/status/660833207923949568
https://twitter.com/tor_sjoberg/status/661097707109490688
Of course, Torsten is’t the only one suspicious of Roosh. Searching a bit further back on Twitter, we find this fellow, upset that Roosh’s cartoon avatar depicts his skin color as yellow.
Others think he’s a Muslim.
And that he’s infecting white men with his non-white ideas:
While “defiling” white women in the process:
https://twitter.com/N1K0LAK1/status/648547359736102912
https://twitter.com/WhiteGenocideTM/status/659231728196853760
https://twitter.com/MaoyuuZeta/status/647765809280847872
I almost feel sorry for Roosh. Who on earth would have thought that members of a hate movement could be so hateful!
OK look, I don’t think anyone here is all “Yes, those Pakistani guys should absolutely get away with raping thousands of girls.” Of course that’s a terrible crime and of course it should be prosecuted severely, and if you’d just brought it up in another context, no one would have had a problem with it.
But when you bring it up specifically in the context of the “brown men rape white women” narrative, you’re directly supporting that narrative, whether you mean to or not. No matter how heinous this case was or how badly it was mishandled, you must know that it doesn’t in itself indicate a trend. Yet you’re bringing it up in a context where it implies that this trend really exists. And you have a pattern of doing this.
Katz
My point is that it is part of a trend, that’s pretty clear now.
But I don’t want to cause any trouble, especially if you think i have form so I’ll leave this issue. There’s nothing practical to be done anyway.
“There’s nothing practical to be done anyway.”
Hold on, why not? The practical thing is to investigate and make arrests. Why can’t that be done? With all the hundreds or more articles that have been written about it, the entire UK if not the whole world, knows this is happening and that its an issue. So now there’s no excuse. Why do you say “nothing practical to be done” now?
Roosh may be going by the fact that the U.S. Census currently counts Iranians as Whites.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/2/middle-eastern-americans-push-census-change.html
However, White Supremacists obviously have their own strong opinion on who is White. Tough luck for Roosh. Perhaps he’ll have to find a more open White Supremacist group to run around with. Or stop trying to hang out with White Supremacists. Shrugs.
I do not feel that Alan has done anything wrong on this topic – the facts speak for themselves. Of course they can be appropriated by racists or Islamophobes, but I would not try to ignore the implications of what happened for fear of how it could be interpreted.
I am from the UK and these cases were terrible, HUNDREDS, quite possibly thousands of girls have been raped, and about 50 boys in one case. Some of them were as young as 11. Many of them were repeatedly victimised, by multiple perpetrators. It has been something that has truly horrified many of us in the UK.
It is difficult not to profile. In the Bristol case all the perpetrators were Somali men. In Telford, Rochdale, Derby,Oxford, Peterborough, Banbury, and Aylesbury 90% were Muslim men of Pakistani origin.
There were many debates, articles and documentaries about what had gone on. It is impossible to get away from the implications of who the perpetrators chose to abuse – in some cases 100% white English girls, at least 75% in other cases.
@occasional reader
“My sentence should has (had ?) been”
I didn’t see anyone answer you, so I will. The correct word there is “have.” “Should have” can also be shortened to “should’ve” and is sometimes incorrectly written as “should of.”
Am I being unreasonable here? Because if so, do tell me.
@ Katz
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. I do think people have misunderstood my points though. But like I say, there seems to be a UK/everywhere else divide developing (it’s perhaps hard to grasp what’s been going on unless you’ve been here) so let’s just drop it.
@SFHC
I might some day make a long comment about racism and neo-Nazism in Sweden, as well as relevant facts regarding crime and immigration, if anyone would be interested.
@leupagus
One council-appointed researcher for the Home Office who raised concerns in her draft report was suspended by the very same council for “gross misconduct” When they were forced to re-instate her, they ensured that she spent the remainder of her time working on policies and procedures, in a room on her own, forbidden access to the victims involved and not allowed to attend meetings or have access to further data. She was told “you must never refer to Asian men” and was booked on a two-day ethnicity and diversity course to raise her awareness of ethnic issues! Her report never saw the light of day and her data was stolen from her office (literally – the office was ransacked).
Her draft report findings were later independently corroborated by the formal inquiry headed by Professor Alexis Jay that was published in August 2014.
http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham.pdf
Um… no.
When Jay wrote the 2014 Rotherham report, the chapter that gave her the most sleepless nights was about the ethnicity of the perpetrators. Almost all of them were from Rotherham’s Pakistani-heritage community which she described as coming from possibly three villages in Kashmir where previous generations had a different view about women’s place in their culture and their society that “certainly wouldn’t accord with any sense that we have”.
Yet Jay never accused Rotherham council, and police, of failing to tackle sexual exploitation because of misplaced political correctness. Instead, she believed the Labour-dominated council turned a blind eye to the problem because of “their desire to accommodate a community that would be expected to vote Labour, to not rock the boat, to keep a lid on it, to hope it would go away”. So this was probably a political cover-up rather than one motivated by race or religion. It just so happened that the community being protected because of “politics” was both Pakistani and Muslim.
Katz,
No. I’m with you. Particularly when this case was brought up in response to a troll who was saying Muslims are fundamentally rapists. I mean, how many white English girls have been raped by white Christian or culturally Christian men in the recent past? Also thousands. Maybe even millions depending on the time frame we’re talking about.
My good friend in college is from Pakistan and spent a lot of time in London because her dad frequently traveled there on business. She hated it there. Mostly because people there are very racist against Pakistanis. The college we went to was basically in the middle of a cornfield in Illinois. The American rural Midwest is not exactly renowned for its tolerance, but it was London that stood out to her as being the most racist. This thread is definitely reminding me why.
Also, I don’t really buy the whole thing about not being to understand if you’re not in the UK. I live in an area that has seen a large influx of Somali Muslims in recent decades. The Twin Cities has some of the best quality of life in the country, no matter who has immigrated here. But you wouldn’t know that from the racist, Islamophobic, xenophobic pearl clutching I’m constantly hearing about Somalis. Including from people who are usually progressive.
@Bryce
A gentle reminder that there are also several non-Indo-European languages in Europe, among them Hungarian, Northern Sami, Southern Sami, Ume Sami, Skolt Sami, Inari Sami (and the rest of the Sami languages spoken in Europe), Finnish and Estonian.
@dhag85
That would be really interesting to read.
And Basque, the language of violent librarian shepherds.
@Katz & WWTH
I’m with you guys. This thread is making me nauseous.
Is it that we’re too far away to understand… Or that we’re far enough away to look at it with unbiased eyes? (I don’t mean that in an I’m-better-than-you kind of way, I’ve just seen a few situations like this before and know how they work.)
@Alan
I disagree. In US and, I presume, in Britain people in authority are always making excuses for adult men having sex with under-aged teen girls. The majority of these girls were from troubled homes, had a history of truancy, suffered emotional damage from abuse and/or abused alcohol/drugs. They’re more likely to be arrested rather than helped or believed.
Any hand-wringing by social services and law enforcement is horseshit, they typically have no sympathy for these girls and see them as sexually promiscuous juvenile delinquents.
In fact the Pakistani/ white slavery angle probably gave this story some juice, I doubt I’d have heard about British law enforcement turning a blind eye to white older men grooming and sexually exploiting poor, “at risk” teens. If home care is the British equivalent to foster care than I definitely call bullshit on the idea that the only thing that kept these cases from being investigated was a fear of being called racist. In the US, social services and law enforcement treats teens in the social system a lot differently than prepubescent children. When it comes to poor underclass, after puberty you cease being a victim and become an unsavory social problem. Hell, black teens are often seen as unsympathetic after being murdered.
I don’t even understand what is happening, I skimmed read most of this, admittedly. I think it’s interesting that this seems to be split between genders a bit, although, like I said, I skimmed read. (And also I don’t know everyone’s pronouns here TBH.)
First, Alan, the problem here is context — wrong time and place for an otherwise interestingly horrible story.
Second, I’m far too exhausted for the actual topic, I’d continue my lurking but nobody answered three.
Third —
I skimmed the link, because really now, how many ways can he sell himself? But the triad theory of psychopathy isn’t new, it’s been around since at least the late 80s early 90s, quite possibly longer but I’m not sure. What’s hilarious is his little theory that this is some fear of powerful men and psychopaths don’t exist? The actual triad is fire setting, bed wetting, and torturing animals — three traits often correlated with criminal behavior. So while I hadn’t heard of him, I find it epically hilarious that he’s claiming this is some magic key to unlocking the world when it’s really a trio of personality traits fucking no one would want to be around.
Four — has there been an open thread I missed? Cuz I have an utterly off topic question that I suspect will get all debate like and sidetrack the thread.
@argenti I haven’t seen an open thread lately either and I’ve been watching. I have things to share that don’t really go well with a Roosh thread
@weirwoodtreehugger
“Mostly because people there are very racist against Pakistanis”
What? All 8.5 million Londoners? I call “straw man”! There are shitty people everywhere. Generally, they are in the minority. London, like any major city, is no exception to this. Heck, some Londoners don’t even like other English people. Rather like the way I imagine New Yorkers can be, yes?
“I don’t really buy the whole thing about not being [able] to understand if you’re not in the UK.”
Then perhaps it would be better to say nothing at this point until you have actually spent some time there yourself.
@Verily @katz – Aren’t the Gaelic languages also related to Basque?
Neat (well, to me) aside: My husband and I had 23andMe sequence our DNA a couple of years ago for Valentine’s Day and his maternal Haplogroup is U2e1. From the site:
Haplogroup U2 arose in the Near East about 45,000 years ago. Today, most of its branches(U2a, U2b, U2c) are concentrated in southern and southwestern Asia, with the exception of one – the U2e haplogroup expanded into Europe about 35,000 years ago with some of the first humans to inhabit the continent.
Example populations: Gujarati, Sindhi, Kalash
I wonder if those fuckleheads would consider him white.
I mean, he’s almost painfully melanin challenged (excepting freckles) and has red in both his hair and beard, but his great-to-the-Nth Grandma probably wasn’t part of the same settlement wave as their great-to-the-Nth Grandma…seems a bit muddy…
(My maternal Haplogroup is boring old H.)
Did you seriously just “Not ALL Londoners!” us?
And is it now acceptable to talk about brown people being rapists but not about white people being racist?
@wwth Hey, another Minnesotian! I lived in St Cloud for a few years and heard constantly about the things that Somalis were apparently ‘destroying’ or ‘ruining.’ Other peoples word, btw. I, unfortunately, was female in a male workspace and was not comfortable speaking up, but you should have heard the sh*t lobbed at Somalis who just wanted to attend St Cloud university- some of whom were learning English, but still required translations to understand everything. They are apparently going to ‘force the schools to have all textbooks in Somalian’ (is that a language, or do they speak something else? Not a linguistic expert here, sorry!) and ‘the White kids were being unfairly displaced’ somehow…
Witchcat,
I’m not in the habit of telling POC that what the perceive as racism isn’t racism. She’s an intelligent and level headed person who has travelled the world and if she says she experienced racism in London, I believe her. She did not, say every single white person in London is racist, so you can quit with that #notallwhitepeople bullshit.
I don’t need to have spent time in London to recognize racism, Islamophobia, xenophobia because it happens everywhere.
“Roosh may be going by the fact that the U.S. Census currently counts Iranians as Whites.”
What did they count as before?
” It is impossible to get away from the implications of who the perpetrators chose to abuse – in some cases 100% white English girls, at least 75% in other cases.”
South Asia’s number one beauty cream is Fair and Lovely Skin Lightener. The matrimonials in the papers often seek “fair bride”.
These peeps did a parody of it.
Ace,
I did some election work in St Cloud last year and we all heard some pretty appalling shit. The same goes for Albert Lea and Fairbault. Anti-Somali bigotry peaked here in Mpls 10-15 years ago, now that they’re starting to move out to greater Minnesota, they’re the ones freaking the fuck out.