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Cassie Jaye tells Vocativ she was stalked by an MRA she interviewed for her Red Pill doc

The story of Cassie Jaye and her Red Pill documentary gets curiouser and curiouser. In an interview with Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ she admits that she’s actually a bit scared of the MRAs whose cause she now seems to be championing.

As Clark-Flory puts it:

It turns out Jaye understands fear of MRAs. “I luckily moved recently,” she said toward the end of our nearly three-hour-long conversation, explaining that some of the men she interviewed had her home address. “I was really glad to move.”

Indeed, Jaye told Clark-Flory that during the course of her interviews one of her subjects evidently became smitten with her, and, in classic MRA style, treated her to numerous late-night phone calls of an apparently amorous nature.

On nearly a dozen occasions, she received calls in the middle of the night from one of her MRA subjects. (There were multiple emails, too.) Jaye implied that her repeat caller had on the mind what one might charitably call romance … .

She acknowledges to Clark-Flory that with her film “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates,” she worries a little bit about what they might do if her final product is not to their liking.

“I think any bad seeds would probably want to see the film first before taking me down,” she said with a laugh. What if they do see the film and view it as unfavorable, though? “I guess I could go into hiding,” Jaye said.

But she apparently isn’t too worried that her new MRA fans and financial backers won’t like her film.

“Do I want to have any kind of allegiance to them to make sure I’m not harmed in the end?” She paused, the question lingering, and then explained that her video diaries show her reacting negatively to the MRAs, but that those clips were part of her early “evolution” on the subject. “I think that protects me from people wanting to attack what I said then,” she said.

The implication seemingly being that the position she ultimately came to would not make MRAs angry with her. “I think it’ll be OK,” she said.

You can read the full piece here, and I really suggest that you do. Because WTF.

In related news, the Red Pill lawyer and juice salesman who apparently bought himself an Associate Producer credit for The Red Pill with a $10,000 donation is bragging that he “cuckolded” Seth Rogan … on Twitter. By which I mean not that he’s boasting about this on Twitter, but that he thinks he actually did the cuckolding on Twitter.

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mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@autosoma

“I dunno what to do, it stressed me and makes me scared, which is an perfect way to become an abuser.”

Well the good news about abusive behavior is that it’s always a *choice* to behave abusively. If you’re making good choices, you have nothing to worry about autosoma. 🙂

How do you know if you’re being abusive? Well, here’s a simple guideline. Abuse is about control. Controlling another person is *always* abusive. Focusing on the one thing in this world that you can control, yourself, *avoids* abuse. 🙂

“I’m having an argument with my wife that’s seriously pushing me towards MGTOW, I’m having difficulty coping.”

Your mind is telling you to take an emotional step back from the situation. One of the few genuine ways that men and women are biologically different is that their brains respond differently, on an neurological level, during fights and stress. (Will produce scientific proof of this upon request). On a neurological level, men’s brains go into “fight or flight” faster and easier than women’s. Auto, if you’re feeling overwhelmed, and on the verge of something bad, it not because you’re a jerk or a secret abuser. It’s because your brain has entered “fight or flight”, shut down your problem solving skills, and entered “survive-at-all-costs” mode. Again, this is a normal biological process, it *does not* make a person bad or potentially abusive. Again, abusive behavior is *chosen*, to *control*. Again, the difference between an abuser and an nonabuser is the choices in their *behavior*, not in their *feelings.*

Although, because the brain is in a compromised place, “survival mode” fights often don’t result in resolutions. There’s nothing wrong with taking time out until you’re feeling better and can problem solve on a clearer head. It’s OK to go to bed angry. None of this is an emergency. Your problems can and will wait. 🙂

Taking time is *not* stonewalling; it is *not* abusive. Just let her know what’s up, and when you’ll be able to talk, and hold your ground if she pushes.

“mrs autosoma has a pretty bad alcohol problem and it manifests itself with those kind of “perception” issues that go along with drinking too much”

This is unfair and problematic. This world is complex enough that she can have some perceptions, and you can have completely different ones, and they can *both* be correct. Her reality is real to her, and your reality is real to you. And yes, this includes her perceptions of your, and her, behavior.

Drunk or not, she has every right to her own perceptions. So no, she does not have a “perception problem”. 😉

“One would be separation and that scares me because I really think in my isolation I would go MGTOW, which is quite abhorrent.”

There’s nothing about marital seperation that means that you *have* to be isolated. There’s nothing about being a MGTOW that means you *have* to be a misogynist. And there’s nothing in a failing marriage that stops you from doing the things that you need to do to protect yourself, to grow yourself, and to improve yourself. Do the work now while you’re still married, and it will be easier to adjust *if* you guys do end up splitting.

You should be growing and improving yourself in *any* relationship, anyway.

“days like today when the drinks inside her and she speaks to her parents, its like being with Mr. Hyde, a horrible drunken vindictive selfish monster appears and I don’t know how to cope with her or myself and I end up hating myself more.”

Welp, there’s some good news here, and terrible news here.

1. Good news; if your wife is complaining, which she most likely still is invested and has hope for the marriage.

Often people assume that that a wife complaining and nagging is unhappy and a “bad” sign for the marriage, and that a wife that’s silent is happy and a “good” sign for the marriage. This is not necessarily so. On the one hand, verbal disagreements may be rare in an older, healthy relationships, on the other hand, if ignored enough women will give up talking and start moving towards escape. In other words, a quiet woman is not necessarily happy, and a complaining woman may be just problem-solving.

Don’t make assumptions about, or take responsibility for, your wife’s happiness. Your wife’s happiness is your wife’s to worry about. You’re not a mind reader, and you can only control your own feelings. It’s OK for your wife to be unhappy.

(Meanwhile bad husbands foolishly assume that their stonewalling and power tactics have “won” the fight. These are the men that we find in the manosphere who were “surprised” by their divorce, who figure that women’s emotions are shallow and change at the drop of a dime because she was just “content” a moment ago! Little do they realize that no-one likes wasting their breath, female or otherwise).

2. Terrible news; she’s talking to you, but she’s doing it in an emotionally abusive manner, and she’s exposing your children to it as well. Likewise goes for your “rants”. You guys *need* to sit down in a calm state and go over ground rules for fights, and under which conditions a time out will be mandatory. If she comes home drunk, angry, and abusive, she needs to know upfront that you *will* take your girls and give her some *cool off* space. She also needs to know that you will be reasonable and listen to her when calm. (That’s listen , not agree . Remember, you have your reality, she has hers).

3. If she persists in her bad behavior, you seriously need to start weighing your options. Don’t fear divorce. Divorce is *always* terrible, but staying in an volatile relationship is worse for both you and your girls.

“I feel trapped as I earn the money to support the family, I’d prefer to be the stay at home carer of the children as I just don’t trust her to be sober to look after them.”

This is a safety issue. Find alternative child care until she sobers up. Yes it may be difficult, and it may be expensive, but you will never forgive yourself, or her, if your girls get hurt. Yelling at and criticizing your wife is not enough. Nobody in the history of ever has been criticized or yelled into sobriety that they didn’t already want in some way.

” He’s an evil destructive man and I think he’s out to punish me for not paying off the £5000 she borrowed of him.”

I know that you’re just venting here, but I also know that you probably wouldn’t say this if some part of you didn’t deep down believe it. Barring a severe, and rare, personality disorder in your FIL, this criticism is unfair. For better or worse, this is your wife’s father, and for better or worse, he’s trying to do best for his little girl, as someday you will do for your little girls. There may be legitimate boundary issues going on, and IMO parents and in-laws do tremendous damage when they meddle in their adult children’s affairs, but to assume he’s evil and destructive for meddling is crossing the line. This is your wife’s father. And I’m speaking as someone who has shitty inlaws and destructive, meddling parents.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@autosoma “I dunno what to do, it stressed me and makes me scared, which is an perfect way to become an abuser.”

Well the good news about abusive behavior is that it’s always a *choice* to behave abusively. If you’re making good choices, you have nothing to worry about autosoma. 🙂

How do you know if you’re being abusive? Well, here’s a simple guideline. Abuse is about control. Controlling another person is *always* abusive. Focusing on the one thing in this world that you can control, yourself, *avoids* abuse. 🙂

“I’m having an argument with my wife that’s seriously pushing me towards MGTOW, I’m having difficulty coping.”

Your mind is telling you to take an emotional step back from the situation. One of the few genuine ways that men and women are biologically different is that their brains respond differently, on an neurological level, during fights and stress. (Will produce scientific proof of this upon request). On a neurological level, men’s brains go into “fight or flight” faster and easier than women’s. Auto, if you’re feeling overwhelmed, and on the verge of something bad, it not because you’re a jerk or a secret abuser. It’s because your brain has entered “fight or flight”, shut down your problem solving skills, and entered “survive-at-all-costs” mode. Again, this is a normal biological process, it *does not* make a person bad or potentially abusive. Again, abusive behavior is *chosen*, to *control*. Again, the difference between an abuser and an nonabuser is the choices in their *behavior*, not in their *feelings.*

Although, because the brain is in a compromised place, “survival mode” fights often don’t result in resolutions. There’s nothing wrong with taking time out until you’re feeling better and can problem solve on a clearer head. It’s OK to go to bed angry. None of this is an emergency. Your problems can and will wait. 🙂

Taking time is *not* stonewalling; it is *not* abusive. Just let her know what’s up, and when you’ll be able to talk, and hold your ground if she pushes.

“mrs autosoma has a pretty bad alcohol problem and it manifests itself with those kind of “perception” issues that go along with drinking too much”

This is unfair and problematic. This world is complex enough that she can have some perceptions, and you can have completely different ones, and they can *both* be correct. Her reality is real to her, and your reality is real to you. And yes, this includes her perceptions of your, and her, behavior.

Drunk or not, she has every right to her own perceptions. So no, she does not have a “perception problem”. 😉

“One would be separation and that scares me because I really think in my isolation I would go MGTOW, which is quite abhorrent.”

There’s nothing about marital seperation that means that you *have* to be isolated. There’s nothing about being a MGTOW that means you *have* to be a misogynist. And there’s nothing in a failing marriage that stops you from doing the things that you need to do to protect yourself, to grow yourself, and to improve yourself. Do the work now while you’re still married, and it will be easier to adjust *if* you guys do end up splitting.

You should be growing and improving yourself in *any* relationship, anyway.

“days like today when the drinks inside her and she speaks to her parents, its like being with Mr. Hyde, a horrible drunken vindictive selfish monster appears and I don’t know how to cope with her or myself and I end up hating myself more.”

Welp, there’s some good news here, and terrible news here.

1. Good news; if your wife is complaining, which she most likely still is invested and has hope for the marriage.

Often people assume that that a wife complaining and nagging is unhappy and a “bad” sign for the marriage, and that a wife that’s silent is happy and a “good” sign for the marriage. This is not necessarily so. On the one hand, verbal disagreements may be rare in an older, healthy relationships, on the other hand, if ignored enough women will give up talking and start moving towards escape. In other words, a quiet woman is not necessarily happy, and a complaining woman may be just problem-solving.

Don’t make assumptions about, or take responsibility for, your wife’s happiness. Your wife’s happiness is your wife’s to worry about. You’re not a mind reader, and you can only control your own feelings. It’s OK for your wife to be unhappy.

(Meanwhile bad husbands foolishly assume that their stonewalling and power tactics have “won” the fight. These are the men that we find in the manosphere who were “surprised” by their divorce, who figure that women’s emotions are shallow and change at the drop of a dime because she was just “content” a moment ago! Little do they realize that no-one likes wasting their breath, female or otherwise).

2. Terrible news; she’s talking to you, but she’s doing it in an emotionally abusive manner, and she’s exposing your children to it as well. Likewise goes for your “rants”. You guys *need* to sit down in a calm state and go over ground rules for fights, and under which conditions a time out will be mandatory. If she comes home drunk, angry, and abusive, she needs to know upfront that you *will* take your girls and give her some *cool off* space. She also needs to know that you will be reasonable and listen to her when calm. (That’s listen , not agree . Remember, you have your reality, she has hers).

3. If she persists in her bad behavior, you seriously need to start weighing your options. Don’t fear divorce. Divorce is *always* terrible, but staying in an volatile relationship is worse for both you and your girls.

“I feel trapped as I earn the money to support the family, I’d prefer to be the stay at home carer of the children as I just don’t trust her to be sober to look after them.”

This is a safety issue. Find alternative child care until she sobers up. Yes it may be difficult, and it may be expensive, but you will never forgive yourself, or her, if your girls get hurt. Yelling at and criticizing your wife is not enough. Nobody in the history of ever has been criticized or yelled into sobriety that they didn’t already want in some way.

” He’s an evil destructive man and I think he’s out to punish me for not paying off the £5000 she borrowed of him.”

I know that you’re just venting here, but I also know that you probably wouldn’t say this if some part of you didn’t deep down believe it. Barring a severe, and rare, personality disorder in your FIL, this criticism is unfair. For better or worse, this is your wife’s father, and for better or worse, he’s trying to do best for his little girl, as someday you will do for your little girls. There may be legitimate boundary issues going on, and IMO parents and in-laws do tremendous damage when they meddle in their adult children’s affairs, but to assume he’s evil and destructive for meddling is crossing the line. This is your wife’s father. And I’m speaking as someone who has shitty inlaws and destructive, meddling parents.

dhag85
4 years ago

Relationships are difficult. I’ve often wondered if I would be happier being by myself and staying single for life, but I’ve never equated that to MGTOW. MGTOW, in my experience, means being alone until you can find a partner, while complaining about women on the internet.

In my current marriage as well as in previous relationships, I’ve sometimes wondered if I’m being mildly abused. You can really feel trapped when there’s constant arguing over things you consider small and unimportant, or constant criticism of your behavior. I’ve found that if I leave dirty dishes on my desk it’s part of a larger pattern of irresponsibility, laziness, bad planning, etc, but if my partner does the same thing there’s always some logical explanation as to why she had to leave it there. I’ve learned to roll my eyes (crucial: look away before rolling eyes) and just nod along when these things come up, because any discussion will inevitably lead to several hours of apologizing before I can get back to studies or work.

Now this might sound like I think my marriage is terrible, but it isn’t. I accept that my wife is not perfect and neither am I, and it certainly doesn’t make me extend her “flaws” to women in general. That’s just lazy thinking. (The things I’ve disliked about my partners aren’t things that only women do.) And even if I did, those perceived flaws wouldn’t be grounds to hate women or build your life around resenting them.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

Kootiepatra, mrex and dhag85 are excellent people, and their advice is sage. dhag85 touched on something that I thought is worth explicitly stating.

If you feel that you want to live without a woman in your life (that is, to do what the MTGOWs claim to want to do but seemingly never achieve) then that’s fine. That’s as honourable a choice as any other and if it’s right for you then it’s right for you.

You are a valuable human being in your own right and your happiness is as important as anyone else’s. This will continue to be true no matter what anyone thinks of you or says about you. Their opinion is just their opinion: it is not objective reality no matter how hard they try to convince you. It took me a long time to escape an emotionally abusive upbringing before I learned that. I wish the very best for you.

boogerghost
boogerghost
4 years ago

Holy shit, does Cernovich actually believe that what Lauren Miller tweeted wasn’t an obviously dismissive jab, but actually an expression of sexual attraction? From what he wrote it looks like he’s not just using that as a grabby headline, he seems to actually believe it. Wow. I’m concerned about him.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

I was going to say a lot of what EJ, dhag, et al have said, but they beat me to it.

But it always helps to have things reinforced:

You are not at fault.
You may have enabled some behavior, but that’s a hard thing not to do when you’re trying to keep things on an even keel. Don’t beat yourself up, just work to rectify.

You cannot control her actions.
This is her addiction.
You can, however, control your reactions.
And you are – you’re a good and thoughtful person. That’s obvious to everyone here.

Take care of yourself.
Like the signs on airplanes say, you need to be able to breathe before you can help anyone else.
But once you can breathe, your kids need your help.
I grew up with a violent, abusive, and volatile father. Even if they’re used to her behavior, your children are scared…especially with you, their stabilizing influence, gone.

If you want to help your wife and she wants to accept your help (perhaps the most necessary part), by all means do – but your children are vulnerable actors here and, if they’re as young as they seem and she’s as unpredictable as you say, they’re in danger. She might not mean to hurt them or allow them to come to harm, but she cannot be entirely aware of the environment or her actions when she’s this far down the rabbit hole.

And you could never be an MGTOW – you may swear off of relationships, but there are plenty of people who have done that without being giant wankers 😀

I hope you hear some good things from your Rabbi and anyone else in the community who can help.

sn0rkmaiden
4 years ago

Re: Cassie Jaye’s stalker. I’m probably wrong, but the first words that popped into my head were ‘Sage’ and ‘Gerard’.

sn0rkmaiden
4 years ago

@Autosoma,

I’m really sorry to hear about your current situation.

I don’t know enough about it to give good advice, and other posters before me have got that covered anyway. But what I will say is that if you do find yourself getting divorced, try and get custody. I don’t mean that in an MRA using the kids as a football, but seriously it’ll be in their best interests to live with you while still having plenty of contact with their mother. And despite all the crap about custody and divorce rape pedaled by the MRM, a lot of the time when fathers want custody they get it.

In the mean time a short break away is probably the best thing for you, but long term your kids need your stabilizing influence.

As for gaslighting, it’s hard for me to say because I don’t you that well. However accusing someone falsely of gaslighting, is effectively gaslighting THEM, making them doubt their own motives. But your wife is the one with the problem here, I do hope for all your sake she gets the help she needs.

Ellesar
Ellesar
4 years ago

That photo is the first I have seen of her – omg she is their absolute ideal woman – white, blonde, pretty, hair v long, slim, young – shit!

At first I thought Cassie could do the ‘just let them hang themselves with their own rope’ style of docu making, but then realised that if she is talking to lots of different Manospherians they will hate that, and blame her. Also, if they do think their own words make them look bad, they will blame her for ‘creative’ editing. If she does any kind of narration to put things into context they will blame her.

Basically she will be blamed for everything.

The ONLY way I can see this working out OK for her is if her interviewees look at all the dreadful things they say and feel justification for them – and as they always seem to do this that might be the thing that saves her.

But she is already acknowledging that going into hiding is a possibility?! Unless this is a sly dig at internet feminists who have already had to do that she already knows how many of these men are dangerous.

As for the arguments that have swayed her – as I suspected she wasn’t much of a feminist if she buys the ‘women live longer’ and ‘men suicide more’ arguments.

The first is mainly biological, but also boosted by women having better oral hygiene (seriously, look it up, it is v interesting – oral bacteria affects the heart) and going to the doctor more – the latter doubtless attributed somewhat to toxic masculinity telling men that they are, or should be, invincible. And, as others have pointed out, living longer in poverty, as many older women will do, is not something that we look forward to.

The second is basically ALL about toxic masculinity – boys don’t cry, don’t talk about your feelings etc etc. In the UK we just had a programme about men’s higher rate of suicide, and this is exactly what they were talking about – Professor Green (he is a rapper, NOT a Professor) looks at male suicide because his own father suicided, and in the entire programme women/ feminism isn’t blamed once!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Ellesar

Yup, keep your gums healthy and you keep your heart healthy.

As to the suicide thing, I thought it was pretty well established that male and female suicide attempt rates were about the same, just that men tend to use methods that are less survivable. (Take a load of pills and you might throw them back up, jump in front of a train, less so)

Za_Docta
Za_Docta
4 years ago

You would think that if releasing this movie causes her to fear that her fans might come after her, that would be cause for a little introspection.

littleknown
littleknown
4 years ago

@autosoma: It sounds like you are in the UK? I am somewhat new here. If alcohol addiction treatment where you are is similar to what is practiced in the US (overwhelmingly AA), then it is very anti-scientific.

I bring this up because you mentioned that your wife is going to her fourth initial rehab meeting in three years. I have long been fighting against AA and 12-step programs as being the only form of treatment available (or even the preferred form), due to their low success rates, their one-size-fits-all models, and their anti-scientific rejections of evidence-based medicine.

I would encourage you to look up treatment options that would include prescription opioid antagonists (such as naltrexone or nalmefene) to control cravings, and cognitive behavioral therapy with a clinical psychologist to work on underlying issues. Numerous clinical trials have found such methods effective. It sounds like 12-step programs and going to meetings haven’t worked for your wife, and in one case, as you say, helped her learn how to hide her drinking.

Methods such as AA have helped many people. But in point of fact, the actual success rates are in the single digits. There are much better ways to treat people. At the Contral Clinics in Finland, 75 percent of patients have reduced their drinking to safe levels through naltrexone and six months of CBT (at a cost of about $2,500). Ideas like “you have to hit bottom to want to get better” fly in the face of scientific evidence, and “you are powerless” does not work for all patients (or even most). Some of the ideas accepted as gold in 12-step programs are actively harmful to the majority of addicts.

Although naltrexone can be purchased online, a physician should know the specifics of your wife’s case before prescribing it (naltrexone will stop painkillers such as morphine and codeine, etc., from working). And of course, your wife has to want to take the pill.

And, of course, I offer this information knowing that your wife may have already tried one of these methods and found them not to work for her. But I feel I would be remiss not to mention them.

For those who are interested, here is an Atlantic article on the irrationality of AA.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ autosoma

You’re ex forces if I recall correctly aren’t you?

Perhaps give these people a call and see if they can help, even if it’s just a sympathetic ear?

https://www.ssafa.org.uk/

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

I’m strongly inclined to agree with folks saying that this young lady has got in way over her head. I can’t say whether she’s stupid, but her understanding, at least of feminism, is demonstrably shallow.

If she didn’t know anything about death rates, suicide rates and all the rest of it relating to men, she’s clearly not read a.n.y.t.h.i.n.g from any feminist anywhere about toxic masculinity and the damage it does to individual men. It’d be nice if some kind feminist woman somewhere could befriend or coach her through the basics without intimidating her with too much academic analysis.

I fancy her upbringing has not developed — or actively suppressed — any talent she might otherwise have had for digging and delving and probing beneath the surface of anything she reads or is told. (That description of her coming to the conclusion that she herself is, or was, a feminist reads like a kindergarten version of how people gain insight into their lives.)

I sincerely hope she avoids the worst of the shitstorms these guys can throw at her if they choose to. I have no idea what she could do though. Abandoning the project, doing an objective report, doing something that she thinks favours them, doing some other thing … any and all of these could provoke real hostility from these clowns if they choose to read what she shows or what she says in a way that provokes their hair trigger bad temper.

littleknown
littleknown
4 years ago

On the topic of Cassie Jaye being swayed by the “men suicide more” argument —

Ellesar wrote:

The second is basically ALL about toxic masculinity – boys don’t cry, don’t talk about your feelings etc etc. In the UK we just had a programme about men’s higher rate of suicide, and this is exactly what they were talking about – Professor Green (he is a rapper, NOT a Professor) looks at male suicide because his own father suicided, and in the entire programme women/ feminism isn’t blamed once!

THIS.

Because the dismantling of rigid and toxic gender roles would do far more to reduce suicide rates among men than the enforcement of them.

I would also like to point to this article about child support payments becoming a crushing debt for fathers that furthers the cycle of crime and does nothing for the children or mothers involved. What on earth is it doing on a feminist website? I thought feminists didn’t care about men’s issues? /s

Bina
Bina
4 years ago

Often people assume that that a wife complaining and nagging is unhappy and a “bad” sign for the marriage, and that a wife that’s silent is happy and a “good” sign for the marriage. This is not necessarily so. On the one hand, verbal disagreements may be rare in an older, healthy relationships, on the other hand, if ignored enough women will give up talking and start moving towards escape. In other words, a quiet woman is not necessarily happy, and a complaining woman may be just problem-solving.

[…]

(Meanwhile bad husbands foolishly assume that their stonewalling and power tactics have “won” the fight. These are the men that we find in the manosphere who were “surprised” by their divorce, who figure that women’s emotions are shallow and change at the drop of a dime because she was just “content” a moment ago! Little do they realize that no-one likes wasting their breath, female or otherwise).

Yup. A quiet, compliant wife who was vocally discontented and angry just a short time before is not suddenly falling back into her “natural” submissive role, as prescribed by patriarchy. She’s simply decided to stop fighting and quietly make her exit plan instead. Guys should actually fear that, instead of desiring it; then they might not be so blindsided when she suddenly drops divorce papers on the breakfast table in front of them, “out of the blue”. Nope, it’s NOT out of the blue when that happens. She’s been planning it awhile. And that’s also why such a woman won’t be talked out of it when that happens. Her mind is made up, and even if the guy doesn’t understand the reasons, she does.

Of course, MGTOW being what they are, they will NEVER understand that. They’ll just blame it all on “her being a bitch”, etc. When in fact the bitchy one was themselves, and they drove her to it.

Therein lies the difference between these guys and Autosoma — they only want to hammer a woman into submission, not help her overcome a problem.

dhag85
4 years ago

Awww, I was called “excellent people”. 🙂 Thanks, EJ. You’re excellent too.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@snorkmaiden “As for gaslighting, it’s hard for me to say because I don’t you that well. However accusing someone falsely of gaslighting, is effectively gaslighting THEM, making them doubt their own motives.”

He answered this himself. Acting like someone’s perceptions are wrong because they’re drunk *is* gaslighting. Now a single instance does not a pattern (or a monster) make, but I can say without a doubt that he has gaslighted her at least once.

We should all keep in mind that literally everybody will behaved poorly in some way, at some point, during a relationship. Humans are flawed. People make mistakes. Making mistakes does not make a person an abusive monster.

“But your wife is the one with the problem here, I do hope for all your sake she gets the help she needs.”

I’m probably misrreading you, but this sounds almost like your saying she’s 100% at fault. Yes, some of this is her fault/problems, but some of it is his. Failing relationships *always* have two people at fault.

The bad news is that he has NO control over her part of the issues. The good news is that he has complete control over his. Sorting out his end may not save his marriage or sober her up, but it will change the dynamic between them, make him a better father, and put him in a better position for his next relationship so he doesn’t repeat the dysfunctional pattern of codependency he learned from his parents yet again.

“But what I will say is that if you do find yourself getting divorced, try and get custody. I don’t mean that in an MRA using the kids as a football, but seriously it’ll be in their best interests to live with you while still having plenty of contact with their mother. And despite all the crap about custody and divorce rape pedaled by the MRM, a lot of the time when fathers want custody they get it.”

Yeah, but there’s a caveat. Courts readily give men 50/50 custody, but they rarely give men full custody without quite the fight. Since this is an issue of safety for the children, 50/50 custody won’t cut the mustard. If he thinks he may go this route he should start gathering evidence of the danger that she poses to the kids *now*, because the only thing that’s worse and more destabilizing for children than a custody battle is a protracted custody battle. :/

Luzbelitx
4 years ago

@Autosoma

I’m barely following this conversation, but I wanted to echo everyone’s feelings, and I hope you are able to overcome all hardships.

I grew up in a very toxic and violent family, but I’m lucky there was no substance abuse, my parents didn’t even smoke.

So I’ll stay here and learn from what everyone is sharing, wishing you the best and providing all the internet hugs you need. And kitties.

http://media.giphy.com/media/eRJjt4yoqk5Tq/giphy.gif

Mrex
Mrex
4 years ago

Thanks for the kudos, EJ!

@Bina “Of course, MGTOW being what they are, they will NEVER understand that. They’ll just blame it all on “her being a bitch”, etc. When in fact the bitchy one was themselves, and they drove her to it.”

Exactly. John Gottman has done extensive research over decades on what makes marriages fail, or thrive, and he’s found that a man’s willingness to “take influence” from his wife is a large factor in whether the marriage thrives or fails. For example, see here ;

“There are a lot of jokes about power struggles in relationships, particularly painting wives who attempt to exert influence in the relationship as ridiculous upstarts, constantly making unreasonable demands. These are evidence of the unfortunate persistence of cultural beliefs about the natural right of men to be entirely dominant in relationships. This cultural belief is slowly weakening as the role of women changes in our society, but it is important to acknowledge the way in which its widespread influence affects our feelings on the issue, and the way we feel about our roles and behaviors in our own relationships.

As briefly mentioned above, in a series of studies Dr. Gottman found that, “ the happiest, most stable marriages in the long run were those where the husband treated his wife with respect and did not resist power sharing and decision making with her. When the couple disagreed, those husbands actively searched for common ground rather than insisting on getting their way.” Obviously, husbands are not always the ones who refuse to compromise or accept their partner’s influence (and often make this mistake without even noticing), but according to our research, a significant gender difference exists in handling of areas of conflict. 

In such situations, wives may express anger or other negative emotions, but they seldom increase the negativity. Instead, they either match it or try to tone it down. 65% of the husbands in Dr. Gottman’s study did not take these approaches; rather, they very frequently introduced what Dr. Gottman calls the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse (criticism, contempt, defensiveness, or stonewalling) into the conversation, escalating negativity! If a wife says, “You haven’t been paying any attention to me!” the husband may ignore her (stonewall), be defensive (“Yes I do!”), be critical (“You’re not always saying important things!”), or be contemptuous (“Oh, princess, spare me your hysterics!”). Instead of allowing his wife to influence him, he is attempting to trample all over her words and her feelings.Our research shows that, if such a pattern develops, you enormous risks: if both partners fail to arrive at solutions that satisfy both of their needs, there is an 81% chance of serious damage and destabilization of a relationship. “

Imma gonna repeat that last statement for extra emphasis; both partners need to work out a solution that meets both their needs, otherwise the relationship is usually damaged and fails.

Toxic masculinity doesn’t teach men how to relate to women as people, and far too often the results are either men whom are domineering (hostile sexism) or milquetoast pushovers(benevolent sexism). *BOTH* of these options are unhealthy, *BOTH* result in relationship failure, because *BOTH* options produce results where *BOTH* partners needs aren’t met. The solution; treat your relationship as a business partnership that shares power. If both partners are not ready to share power, then both partners are not ready for a relationship, and *in particular* they should avoid living together.

So often you hear MRAs and MGTOWs whine about how they were pushovers and the woman lost respect and the relationship failed. Yup, being a pushover and sacrificing your own wants and needs produces a resentful, contemptuous partner and a failed relationship. So these men go to the other extreme and become dominant, are shocked and appalled when they are inevitability faced with a resentful and contemptuous partner, and conclude that women are just impossible to please. The third option, of open and respectful shared control, is not presented as an option by patriarchal society.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

I should point out that by “treat your relationship as a shared business” I DO NOT mean that you should treat your relationship with a cold distance and not love and intimacy. Quite the opposite, actually.

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
4 years ago

Autosoma, I think I remember you previously saying you’re in the UK? I’m in the UK and I’m a drug and alcohol recovery worker. I’m also 9 years clean.

A lot of what has already been said is really good so I’m not going to add to that but if you want any information about treatment in the UK I’m happy to discuss how the medical options work (nalmefene, naltrexone, accamprosate, antabuse, detoxes using benzos).

Orion
4 years ago

Autosoma,

Mrex has given you some really useful advice, and the charity of their perspective is admirable, but there are some parts that gave me serious pause. Given how hard on yourself you seem to be, I feel that I should try to take the edge off the parts that seemed overharsh.

“Barring a severe, and rare, personality disorder in your FIL, this criticism is unfair. For better or worse, this is your wife’s father, and for better or worse, he’s trying to do best for his little girl, as someday you will do for your little girls.”

I don’t know about that. My perspective may be biased by my parents’ abuse, my tendency to befriend other survivors, and my habit of reading here and Captain Akward, but I really don’t think destructive people are all that rare.

Also, the FIL’s humanity and fundamental worth isn’t really the issue here, it’s his function in this scenario. Yeah, it might be hard to believe that he has no redeeming and has never done anything good in his life. He probably does have his virtues. But I can easily believe that he has never done anything good *for Autosoma’s relationship* and that he’s a reliable destructive force *in Autosoma’s life*.

“Drunk or not, she has every right to her own perceptions. So no, she does not have a “perception problem”. ;)”

Disagree. Some people, drunk or not, persistently misunderstand the world around them. I don’t know what kind of “perception issues” are in play here, but there are plenty of people in the world who habitually see threat where there is none, insult where there is none, betrayal where there is none, and so on. Yes, it’s important to consider your biases and blind spots. Yes, it’s impossible to negotiate without meeting someone where they are. But sometimes, once you’ve practiced your perspective taking and searched your soul, what you find is that the other person truly doesn’t see the world accurately. At some point you have to let yourself stop worrying about their opinion, trust your instincts, and live without agonizing over their accusations.

“Failing relationships *always* have two people at fault.”

This is true, but trivially true. Once a real crisis develops, one’s own faults can become irrelevant. Whether you have at some point in the past mistreated a spouse, whether you fell short of being the model supportive partner, at the point where your partner is neglecting their children and screaming at you, they are the problem and you are not. Escape and self-protection and childcare matter much more than trying to undo whatever past errors you might have made.

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

Thanks for pointing that out, Orion. Those bits gave me pause as well, but I couldn’t really put into words why that was.

Orion
4 years ago

I should add — pervasive misperception can be caused by drugs (inc. alcohol), but more often it’s caused by the underlying problem that drives the drug abuse.

Depression will give you a hell of a “perception problem.” In some ways, depression *is* a “perception problem.”

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Failing relationships *always* have two people at fault.

What about relationships where one partner might as well be from a Hollywood romance and the other partner cheats? You can’t fault Faithful Partner for not being able to read Cheating Asshole Partner’s mind. Humans aren’t psychic.

He answered this himself. Acting like someone’s perceptions are wrong because they’re drunk *is* gaslighting. Now a single instance does not a pattern (or a monster) make, but I can say without a doubt that he has gaslighted her at least once.

This paragraph is just gross, ignores everything we know in favour of “Autosoma must be in the wrong because I said so,” and can generally fuck right off. No, I’m not going to mince my words; it’s victim blaming right to the victim’s face.

autosoma
4 years ago

A lot of good supportive advice from everyone. I’d like to thsnk you all. J was all at sixes and sevens last night, and as many of you know this isn’t the first time it’s happened.

well twelve hours of “thinking / not thinking” has got me to the point where. I’m going to say thank you again, thank you all for letting me talk and being honest with me.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Hi

Just to chip in about the children thing. Matters have really moved on in the court system. Bit tied up but some bullet points that no doubt others with experience can chip in on.

There’s now no such thing as “custody”

Courts can only make an order relating to children if there’s no alternative to not making one (i.e.orders are now a last resort rather than a standard thing)

Orders can only relate to residence and contact or prohibited steps

They don’t have to be specific. The most common order is for “reasonable contact”. They prefer the parents to sort that out themselves and discourage a dogmatic clock watching approach

Courts won’t interfere where bright kids ” vote with their feet” unless there’s an impact on the child’s welfare

In child cases, whilst parents have some procedural rights (e.g to be heard in court) they have no substantive rights. Only the children do. The welfare of the child is paramount so courts don’t take into account the conduct of the parents unless it directly impacts on the child.(so if someone is a terrible and violents pouse but is safe with the kids that won’t be a factor the court takes into account. Courts will not refuse contact with kids to punish bad behaviour. Parents will be expected to cooperate in relation to the kid’s even if they’re at war with each other.)

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

Glad you’re feeling a bit more settled, autosoma.

And a big Thank You to orion. I meant to say something about mrs a’s family but somehow omitted to. The fact that she has serious issues and the way auto describes what happens when she rings them pushed all my Captain Awkward buttons. I might like them if I met them, but that’s irrelevant, (my great-aunt had friends and she was poisonous within the family). What matters is what kind of parents were they as they raised her and have they found a way to support-encourage-backstop her and her family now regardless of the good, bad or indifferent job they did back then.

I suspect not, but then, as I said, my Captain Awkward antennae are quivering and I might be reading too much into what autosoma said.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

Ugh this is disgusting. Have you seen the men who make up the Manosphere? Ouch, my eyes! Not that being stalked by a looker makes it any less of a crime. But Cassie’s very pretty and those slugs should stay in their lane. Hell, they’ve got Karen Straughn and Judgy Bitch to ring up ’round midnight and yap with until the wee hours.

Cassie might some day seriously regret her ever having met any of them. It sounds like she’s already beginning to.

Tracy
Tracy
4 years ago

@Orion thank you. My husband had a drug and alcohol problem and his perceptions were often incorrect. Objectively incorrect. @mrex, saying someone has a right to their perceptions is completely meaningless, and is of no help when they’re banging on your door in the middle of the night, certain you’ve done something you absolutely haven’t because their substance-addled brain has confused you with someone else. (I had moved out at this point… we were apart for about 2 years, until he got clean.)

@autosoma all the hugs. I’ve been there, albeit without children involved, and what I had to learn (and it was a difficult lesson, but worth it) was what some others have already said here: you can’t change her behaviour, only your own and how you look after your own well-being (and that of your children). Are you able to get counselling at all for you and your kids, to help you with coping skills and setting loving boundaries, that sort of thing?

Tracy
Tracy
4 years ago

@Virtually

Have you seen the men who make up the Manosphere? Ouch, my eyes! Not that being stalked by a looker makes it any less of a crime. But Cassie’s very pretty and those slugs should stay in their lane.

Seriously? Cut it out.

Chiomara
Chiomara
4 years ago

“Depression will give you a hell of a “perception problem.” In some ways, depression *is* a “perception problem.””

Yep. He said it.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
4 years ago

OK. This thread has been the opposite of uplifting for various reasons.

Happy, happy, joy, joy. The world’s richest handicap race, the Melbourne Cup, was yesterday won by an outsider, a horse ridden by a woman jockey. The first time ever.

Pure serendipity dictated that she was wearing Green, White and Violet colours — suffragettes forever!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-03/michelle-payne-rides-prince-of-penzance-to-melbourne-cup-win/6908594

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@orion “Mrex has given you some really useful advice, and the charity of their perspective is admirable, but there are some parts that gave me serious pause. Given how hard on yourself you seem to be, I feel that I should try to take the edge off the parts that seemed overharsh.”

Fair enough. Autosoma *is* a great guy. But IMO he *is* wrong in some ways, as human nature is to make mistakes. Which may be harsh, but IMO is a *much* more empowering place to be, because it gives him the power to change and effect the whole situation, regardless of whether or not he can change *her*. IMO sitting on his thumbs because the other person is “the one at fault”, is the epitome of foolishness. Regardless of who’s at fault, he can honestly only focus on changing himself, changing *his* mistakes, and focusing on his *own*a happiness. This includes getting to a place where he accepts that making mistakes does not make him a jerk. I mean, how the fuck is he supposed to listen to her nondefensively and with a open mind if he thinks mistakes=OMG I SUCK!!!! I think he should love himself despite his mistakes, not because he’s made none.

But, everyone has their own view.

” I really don’t think destructive people are all that rare.”

To be clear, I said that evil people are rare, not that destructive people are rare. There’s a big difference in intent, and there’s a big difference in how one draws boundaries with a problematic yet well intended FIL, and an evil FIL who’s sole motivation is ruining his SIL and not protecting his daughter . (That’s how Auto described him; evil, which even if 99% spouting off does reveal some deeper beliefs). Both scenarios are possible, but the latter is pretty rare.

Don’t you think that Auto’s wife knows Auto’s opinions of her father? Put yourself in her shoes. Boundaries with parents are needed for a relationship to thrive, but this is still her father. Again, put yourself in her shoes.

“Some people, drunk or not, persistently misunderstand the world around them. I don’t know what kind of “perception issues” are in play here, but there are plenty of people in the world who habitually see threat where there is none, insult where there is none, betrayal where there is none, and so on”

Well, I agree that there’s probably people that see betrayal where *you* see none, threat where *you* see none, and insult where *you* see none. Where I disagree is with the idea that *you* get to be the judge of what *they* do or don’t see, or that *they* get to be the judge of what *you* do or don’t see. Fuck that.

Let me ask you a question, look at this dress and tell me what colors you see.

[link]

Let me tell you what I see; a off-white and gold dress. When I first heard about dressgate I thought it was a big joke because I literally could not see the black no matter how hard I looked. What can be more basic than color perception in noncolorblind people, right? So I tried an experiment; I.asked one daughter what color the dress was with no explanation. She said it was black and blue. Ditto went for other daughter. Literally everyone else in my household sees blue and black.

Humans literally cannot deal in reality. They deal in their brain’s Interpretation of reality. The greatest strength, and the greatest challenge, of marriage is that you will be we’d to someone who will look at something and literally see something completely different than you.

“I should add — pervasive misperception can be caused by drugs (inc. alcohol), but more often it’s caused by the underlying problem that drives the drug abuse. Depression will give you a hell of a “perception problem.” In some ways, depression *is* a “perception problem.”

Humans, as a group, have perception issues. That’s why debates are so important. And that’s why friends so often give biased, shitty relationship advice in an attempt to protect their friends feelings.

I think you *really* need to step back and take stock of what you’re saying. Telling someone that they’re guaranteed wrong because of mental illness is textbook gaslighting. I was stuck in an abusive relationship because of my mental illness and other people’s gaslighting . My sister was as well, and although she legitimately suffers from psychosis and paranoia, it wasn’t her mental illness that sent her to the hospital beaten to a pulp. That was the day I learned to trust my instincts, and let other people trust theirs.

@SFHC “What about relationships where one partner might as well be from a Hollywood romance and the other partner cheats? You can’t fault Faithful Partner for not being able to read Cheating Asshole Partner’s mind. Humans aren’t psychic.”

Well Hollywood romance isn’t real outside of Hollywood, so you may have well asked me “what if aliens landed, who would be at fault then?” Regardless, it’s still very simple. Cheating partner would be 100% at fault for cheating. Perfect partner would be at fault for, according to you, believing that the only option for discussion is mind reading. What a stupid gotcha.

But really, the perfect partner/asshole partner only exists in Hollywood. There’s a reason why couples who survive divorce often refer to the affair as the best thing to happen to their marriage. Because there are no out of the box perfect partners .

“This paragraph is just gross, ignores everything we know in favour of “Autosoma must be in the wrong because I said so,” and can generally fuck right off. No, I’m not going to mince my words; it’s victim blaming right to the victim’s face.

There’s no need to mince your words sweetheart; I’m blunt and I can take bluntness back. What you don’t get to do is tell me what my intentions are. I’ve been (kinda) divorced with kids, I know the MO of how things go and how things reconcile. Divorce can be what’s best, but its never what’s ideal. You think my bluntness is abusive and gross, and I think asskissing when he needs straight talk is abusive and gross. You don’t get to tell me my intentions.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

“@mrex, saying someone has a right to their perceptions is completely meaningless, and is of no help when they’re banging on your door in the middle of the night, certain you’ve done something you absolutely haven’t because their substance-addled brain has confused you with someone else. (I had moved out at this point… we were apart for about 2 years, until he got clean.”

Ok, people repeatedly seek to think that saying “you don’t get to tell them their reality” with “you have to agree with them”. To be clear, as I have repeatedly said, them having their perceptions *does not* mean that you give up yours.

In short, when your ex was banging on your door accusing you of something you didn’t do, did you;

1. Kindly but firmly assert your own reality that it wasn’t you? Good.
2. Agree with him? Unhealthy, yuck yuck boundaries, yuck yuck.
3. Imply, or outright tell him that he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about because he’s a drunk? Fuck you.

Hopefully this has cleared things up?

andiexist
andiexist
4 years ago

@mrex

On the dress… that analogy really doesn’t work. See, the dress got analyzed by a computer. It was blue and black, though the black was a very dark brown-gold in the light. (Since that’s how blacks are usually made, there not being very many pure black things.)

Reality is, no matter what one sees.

andiexist
andiexist
4 years ago

@mrex

Sorry, was writing while you responded. I think it’s more that you’re coming across as saying that all interpretations are equally valid than that you’re saying that people can’t tell other people what they think.

The part about the analogy saying the opposite of what you seemed to be going for still stands, though. >_<

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

“The part about the analogy saying the opposite of what you seemed to be going for still stands, though. >_<"

If the dress had to be analyzed by a computer to “prove” reality than my point about the human brain stands. The colors on the dress were an optical illusion because the picture was shitty and had a lot of visual noise. The differences in color perception were caused by different people’s brains making different choices about what wavelengths of “noise” to filter, based on the brains assumptions on the environment that the dress was in, whether it was in the light or the shade, etc. It’s a split second decision that the brain makes based on experiences with color it’s had in the past. The computer no doubt used some technical algorithm that the human brain doesn’t use. 😉

So, uh, what colors do YOU see? 🙂

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
4 years ago

If there was any doubt about Cassie Jaye’s integrity, this video makes it clear that she’s a piece of work. “Blogger David Futrelle has waged a misogynistic smear campaign against me. He has waged unfounded and baseless attacks against my character and reputation.” Etc. She actually accused him of lying about the CIFF award and defended it. o_O

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

Anyway, I’m bowing out of the advice-giving. I think I’ve more than made my point, and have crossed into pushiness.

@WWTH said something earlier about male mammals living shorter lives than female mammals. This is true, and is *one* reason vets suggest castrating males when young, as this extends their lives to that of females. The same goes for humans.

“This scenario predicts that removal of the testes (castration) might extend male lifespan. This possibility is supported by a study of mentally disabled men who had the misfortune to live in the USA in the early-mid 20th century, where sterilization of the “genetically unfit” was common as a result of policies initiated by the eugenics movement [36]. Analysis of mortality data from 297 castrated men, and 735 age-matched intact controls revealed a significant increase in lifespan in the former (70.7 vs. 64.7 yrs, p < 0.001) [37]. If only those castrated earlier in life were considered, the effect on lifespan was more profound: an increase in median lifespan of 11.6 years.

Although the Hamilton and Mestler study supports the idea of a life-shortening effect of possession of testes, it remained possible that such benefits of castration are peculiar to institutionalized mentally handicapped males. Notably, the life expectancy of intact control males was considerably lower than that of the general population [37]. Moreover, there is no clear relationship between testosterone levels and lifespan in intact men in retrospective studies; one of US veterans over the age of 40 found an association between low testosterone and increased all-cause mortality, even after adjustment e.g. for age, medical morbidity and BMI[38].

This issue has been explored further through studies of eunuchs (castrated men) who historically were a significant presence in a number of societies, from Yugoslavia to China [39,40]. Notable eunuchs in Western Europe included the castrato singers, who underwent prepubertal castration to retain in adulthood their prepubescent vocal range (e.g. soprano and mezzo-soprano). One study compared the lifespans of 50 Italian castratos with a set of intact male singers of the same period, and detected only a 1.2 year increase in mean lifespan in the castratos, that was not statistically significant (65.5±13.8 yrs vs. 64.3±14.1 yrs) [41]. However, the lack of statistical significant here could reflect the small sample size [42]. A further possibility is that some would-be castrates were in fact intact men whose voices had not broken at puberty.

This long-standing controversy appears to have been resolved by publication in 2012 of a study of eunuchs at the Imperial Court of the Chosun Dynasty in Korea [43]. There, eunuchs could attain high official ranks, and genealogical records of eunuchs exist that include birth and death dates. From such records of the period 1556-1861, 81 eunuchs were identified, with a mean lifespan of 70.0±1.76 years (range 27-109). This compared to mean lifespans of intact men of comparable social status ranging from 50.9-55.6 years, i.e. eunuchs lived 14.4-19.1 years longer than intact men. Moreover, three of the 81 eunuchs became centenarians, living to 100, 101 and 109 years, a frequency that is at least 130-times higher than in contemporary developed societies [43]. This new study confirms the conclusion of Hamilton and Mestler (1969), that the presence of testes markedly shortens lifespan. It is also consistent with the idea that the testes are a determinant of the gender gap in lifespan.b

I wonder how the hell MRAs can complain about the lifetime gap given that the cause is that men have testes, and women don’t? :/ That’s about as far from sedism as one can get.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

mrex,
I’m sure MRAs are going to spin your post as “David Futrelle and his feminazi minions want to castrate all men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

epitome of incomprehensibility

@autosoma – my best wishes and support. I hope you and your kids can find some stability and safe space and that your wife can recover.

@Virtually Out of Touch – maybe I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re saying being “pretty” makes you a better person somehow, and that pretty people don’t deserve bad things, and that MRAs are all ugly… This just doesn’t make sense to me. Anyway, I don’t think Karen Straughan’s ugly – hell, if I didn’t know anything about Roosh V I’d find him pretty to look at too, but that doesn’t stop me from finding his words and actions utterly repulsive.

(Sorry if I’m being too touchy about an offhand comment.)

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@Auntie – Ew.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@Auntie – I may mangle these quotes some, but:

“David Futrelle has launched a misogynistic attack against me.”
I’m a woman and he’s criticized me, therefore – MISOGYNY.
Also, I think that enough people who watch this are either inclined to agree with my assessment or won’t bother to look into what Futrelle’s written. Either way, this is some GREAT fuel for a Twitter war.

“Self-identified MRAs are in the minority of my backers […]”

This duck has waddled over and quackingly assured me that he is NOT a duck. I believe him.

“And even if they were MRAs, it would be moot because Kickstarter backers have no creative control.”

That’s why I’m scared of what one subset may do to me if they don’t like my movie.

“There are many events that take place in Cannes, France […]”

So, yes, I do pretend that the award given to my earlier work has actual merit.

Okiedokie, I only watched a clip or three and she’s adequately conveyed that David’s criticism was probably more spot on than my and others defense and/or benefit of the doubt.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

At this point, we can just call her a feMRA, right? A feMRA of the opportunistic sellout variety rather than a true believer, but a feMRA nonetheless.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@SFHC – I mean *waves hand at video* damn.

At the very least, she’s an opportunist who’s done a remarkably good job of adopting MRA tactics and verbiage.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@Orion

Depression will give you a hell of a “perception problem.” In some ways, depression *is* a “perception problem.”

Actually, people with depression tend to be more realistic in their perception of the world and themselves. It’s just that the world really is a shitty place, so the brain tends to delude itself that the world is less shitty than it is to make it possible for you to feel happy.

Also, depression isn’t caused by how we perceive things, even if it can have an effect on that, so please don’t talk like that. When people call depression a perception problem they’re basically telling me that if I just change how I think, all of the crippling pain I’m in that makes it difficult to do every single mundane task you take for granted every single day of your life will magically go away because I’m somehow willing myself to have this disease. It’s like saying a broken bone is a perception problem. You tend to not be chipper when in agony, regardless of the source.

dhag85
4 years ago

The future Honeybadger says the 5 people who donated $10k are not MRAs. But we know that one of them is Juicebro fucking Cerno. That’s like saying “I promise I’m not a shoplifter! I’m just a thief!”

dhag85
4 years ago

@Virtually

Could you maybe start taking some time to read through your comments and think carefully before clicking post comment? Or just take a time-out for a while? I’m one of those people who when they facepalm they actually facepalm, and I don’t wanna end up with a permanent handprint on my face. Thanks in advance.