The story of Cassie Jaye and her Red Pill documentary gets curiouser and curiouser. In an interview with Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ she admits that she’s actually a bit scared of the MRAs whose cause she now seems to be championing.
As Clark-Flory puts it:
It turns out Jaye understands fear of MRAs. “I luckily moved recently,” she said toward the end of our nearly three-hour-long conversation, explaining that some of the men she interviewed had her home address. “I was really glad to move.”
Indeed, Jaye told Clark-Flory that during the course of her interviews one of her subjects evidently became smitten with her, and, in classic MRA style, treated her to numerous late-night phone calls of an apparently amorous nature.
On nearly a dozen occasions, she received calls in the middle of the night from one of her MRA subjects. (There were multiple emails, too.) Jaye implied that her repeat caller had on the mind what one might charitably call romance … .
She acknowledges to Clark-Flory that with her film “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates,” she worries a little bit about what they might do if her final product is not to their liking.
“I think any bad seeds would probably want to see the film first before taking me down,” she said with a laugh. What if they do see the film and view it as unfavorable, though? “I guess I could go into hiding,” Jaye said.
But she apparently isn’t too worried that her new MRA fans and financial backers won’t like her film.
“Do I want to have any kind of allegiance to them to make sure I’m not harmed in the end?” She paused, the question lingering, and then explained that her video diaries show her reacting negatively to the MRAs, but that those clips were part of her early “evolution” on the subject. “I think that protects me from people wanting to attack what I said then,” she said.
The implication seemingly being that the position she ultimately came to would not make MRAs angry with her. “I think it’ll be OK,” she said.
You can read the full piece here, and I really suggest that you do. Because WTF.
In related news, the Red Pill lawyer and juice salesman who apparently bought himself an Associate Producer credit for The Red Pill with a $10,000 donation is bragging that he “cuckolded” Seth Rogan … on Twitter. By which I mean not that he’s boasting about this on Twitter, but that he thinks he actually did the cuckolding on Twitter.
Her IMDb credits give me the impression of trying too hard, especially the last two films.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1787884/
Look compelling, but reviews are uneven.
I’m honestly terrified for her at this point. There is just no way this can end well. She’s negotiating with a hornets’ nest.
@Mels, if she more or less goes along with what they want I suppose she can be as “alright” as any other woman in the manosphere such as JB or Girl Writes What. Her credibility as a documentary filmmaker will be severely damaged if not totally destroyed though. I haven’t seen her other docs so I don’t know what’s at stake here. If she does make an honest documentary I don’t think there is any chance she will be alright, but judging from her quotes I think she may have drunk the manosphere kool-aid.
“Hold my cuck while I take a piss.”
Ahem.
On a more serious note, though, it’s suddenly easy to see why she really wants to believe that Cannes indy-film award is real. She really wants to believe that these guys are okay people, too.
Boy, is she in for a rough landing.
@Fnoicby
So Cassie is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the documentary doesn’t worship the ground they walk on she’ll be hounded and harassed beyond what she can imagine. If she DOES do it, her credibility as a filmmaker is shot.
Yikes. Poor lady. I really hope she backs out of all this in the next week or so – it may be her only chance at maintaining her career and her quality of life as it is now.
I spent some time at Oxford*.
* Walking around, mostly – visited some neat used book shops.
Dammit, wrong thread :p
Did anyone else notice how she’s worried about what the MRAs will think of her film and not at all worried about what feminists think? Underneath it all, I think she realizes that the MRAs can and would hurt her, while the feminists will not.
@Fnoicby – It’s going to be hard to make MRA shitheels look like anything but shitheels for the length of a feature film, though. And all it will take is one gross moment for the rest of us to point out for the MRM to turn on her and accuse her of slander (or whatever nonsense crime they come up with to describe their own vile behavior). Especially since she’s a woman. They will jump at the chance to spit vitriol at even the slightest percieved transgression. I’m afraid for her.
Drezden,
I ran out of time on my break, but that was my thought too. Elderly women are significantly more likely to be impoverished than elderly men because we live longer but have less money. The fact that we live longer is an argument for, not against closing the wage gap. Unless one thinks being poorer is some sort of punishment for living longer even though it’s my understanding that females live longer across mammal species so the difference may well be due to biology and not anything societal.
oh my God. I’m having an argument with my wife that’s seriously pushing me towards MGTOW, I’m having difficulty coping. I need help.
Maybe I’m one of the few commenters here who has seen Daddy I Do. It’s not a great documentary, but it’s not horrible either. What it did is allow proponents and adherents of purity culture (along with critics, abuse survivors, secular individuals and educators, and assorted others) to talk into the camera without much interference, commentary, or criticism to make their own case. This sort of works with purity culture because, even as wrong-headed as it is, it sometimes operates in an atmosphere of naivete and willful ignorance that allows it to be examined and critiqued with a hands-off approach.
This is a very problematic approach to take with verified hate-mongers whose willful ignorance is hateful and malicious. It looks like Cassie Jaye was somewhat bamboozled by a combination of slippery propaganda, semi-skillful debate rhetoric, MRAs on their best behavior, and an ignorance of the bigotry and harm the manosphere generates at the macro level.
What’s up, autosoma?
@autosoma
Sounds like a really bad quarrel. You alright?
I have no idea how she can acknowledge how dangerous they are, and yet still apparently believe their arguments are being made in good faith. That’s not to say that groups with violent elements never represent a worthwhile cause… but you would think that feeling as if you’d need to go into hiding if they disliked your film would at least warrant at least a little skepticism. I mean, it takes the barest minimum of research to expose them as misogynists who occasionally hide behind real issues that they seem to have no intention of actually addressing.
Hippielady,
Very true. I’ve never heard of anyone having to be relieved that they’ve moved after interviewing feminists and giving them their contact info.
@Mels, that’s why I said her credibility would end up shot. If she takes their talking points at face value and makes no effort to dig even a millimeter in, the manosphere might be happy enough. You make a great point, any flaws pointed out by feminists and regular people (non manospherians) run the risk of unleashing their wrath on her for “making them look bad”. It’s a terrible position for her to be in even if she truly has bought into their philosophy – I agree her best move may be to abandon the project asap.
It’s so weird that she’s afraid of what might happen if MRAs don’t like her documentary. The worst possiblity that would still be in the realms of reasonable, would be that they would refuse to aid her career in any way/write hit pieces against her. If she wasn’t joking when she said that she could go into hiding, that speaks volumes about the MRAs she’s interviewed.
And, as for the argument that impressed her… This is actually really stupid. It’s not a competition: “I’m opressed!” “I’m more opressed! So I win and you can’t complain! Neener neener neener” is the dumbest way of solving problems. Furthermore, the issues mentioned are not mutually exclusive. I really don’t know what the argument she heard can convince anyone of, besides “men have problems too”.
Cripes, I don’t like what she’s doing, but I hope she stays safe. Because we all know what’s going to happen if her documentary doesn’t meet their wild expectations.
Not that I want her documentary to succeed at any rate. From everything I’ve heard, she’s looking to uplift them by showing off their side, when all there is to their side is a bunch of women hating pricks that believe rape is just fine.
If Jaye believes that MRAs will be okay with her documentary, why did she have to change her address? It’s obvious she’s made a homage to MRAs rather than an objective film which is horrible given that they don’t deserve any good coverage.
do some what-now? That is absurd. What ever that is, other people do it for me, because I am a logical person /sarcasm
as an aside, this whole thing is developing almost exactly how I thought it would and I find that disturbing. Hopefully she comes out of it unscathed
@AAAtheist: “This is a very problematic approach to take with verified hate-mongers whose willful ignorance is hateful and malicious.”
Exactly. It reminds me of what Errol Morris said about his documentary about Fred Leuchter, the Holocaust denier; usually Morris is big on the “just let them talk” method, but he realized that he needed to have experts in the documentary to take apart Leuchter’s sophistries.
@autosoma:
If you need an ear to vent into, I can be available.
@Eschen – “I have no idea how she can acknowledge how dangerous they are, and yet still apparently believe their arguments are being made in good faith.”
I have a bad feeling she’s realized what a mistake she’s made and is now trying to walk a tightrope. The casual comment about going into hiding made me cringe.
Even if she were to abandon the project now, the MRM would likely strike back at her, either for “leading them on,” or for financial reasons, or for “making them look bad” (ie admitting that they’re scary). What an awful situation.
Oh gawd, can we talk about JuiceBrain, too? Please? Because this guy is he-sterical:
Uh, she can’t. She’s still a bigot and a misogynist. I’ve been saying for years that she is, too. Just because she’s internalized a bunch of sexist bullshit doesn’t mean she gets a free ride. Except, maybe, from sexist bullshitters. (Which is just pathetic.)
Dude, if you think right-wing TV and shitty blogs are “mainstream”, you’ve got even more ‘roids on the brain than I thought. Everyone else realizes they’re open sewers of stinking feculence.
As for “free passes”, ruffle-a-mao. I’ve gotten into arguments with idiots (both female and gay male) who fell for that shit. And won those fights, without mercy. NO ‘winger gets a free pass from me, no matter their identity.
No, it’s not unfair, Mikey. You’re a fringe figure. You’re dim as a burnt-out ten-watt bulb. And you’re not that good looking. In fact, I don’t think you’re good looking at all. (Neither is Milo, and ask any gay guy if you won’t take a woman’s word for it.)
Uh-huh. Well, you may not like the other MRAs, because your “gorilla mindset” sees them as competition for scarce feeeeeemales, but you still ARE one.
This sounds like he’s whining at all the late-teens/early-20s women who’ve rejected him lately. He’s no doubt finding out that men, too, have a “wall”, and he’s hit it hard. (And early, thanks to all those ‘roids in his juice.)
Uh, Mikey? Family still matters. But not the way you think. Men aren’t natural-born heads, and women aren’t born to take orders without complaint. It’s not our fault if no one wants your LIQUID FUCKING GOLD, weenie.
And why do I get the feeling that all this “worked together” really just means that the women did all the work, and the men maybe kicked in a buck or two…IF they felt like it?
What? No, Mikey…men who make lots of money at the jobs they keep (in spite of divorce!), and spend it all on strippers and cocaine, are labelled deadbeat dads. For good reason. And they don’t go to jail. Most of the time, they get away with it. BIG time. All they have to do is move to another state or province, and boom! The law can’t touch their ass. Meanwhile, Baby Mama is left on the hook, as always. And what does he say about HER?
Oh gawd, that projector sure runs hot. But the film on the reel is thwapping around. Mikey isn’t reflecting reality here; he’s projecting his own fantasies onto women.
Oh Christ, this old disingenuous canard yet again. Males and females attempt suicide at about the same rate. But men pick more violent (and therefore, more “successful”) methods, so they don’t have the same failure rate as women. They use guns more than women. Guns kill people; one shot will do. Women are more likely to use pills, which tend to work less effectively. Often, they just end up vomiting them out and not dying, and end up getting rescued, and get help for their problems, and never attempt it again. See how that works?
No, Mikey, those are “issues” MRAs gin up (and deliberately get wrong) to get attention, sympathy, and above all, $$$. And yet, you don’t consider yourself one of them? You are a joke. No wonder no one wants your ape face on their TV.
And speaking of bids for cash, here comes a sales pitch, right on cue:
Snurk. Trade reality for Mikey’s own brand of mental enslavement! Come on, you gendered slurs, what’s holding you back?
Or just fork $$$ at a vulnerable and too-trusting young woman filmmaker, and pressure her to put your “movement” in a better light than it really deserves.
And meanwhile, white-knight the fuck out of that damsel:
…and get in a little stealth-damselling, in true Gorilla Mindset manly-man fashion, while you’re at it.
And look! Here comes another sales pitch! Which is NOT a sales pitch, you SJW gendered slurs, you:
Ruffle-la-mao. See? No marketing ploy (not “play”, Mikey) there!
And I do it by peddling my magic muscle juice and pretending to be a Big Shot Lawyer who will sue the snot out of your very nose if you dare to sniff at me. (What do you mean there are steroids in my magic muscle juice, and they’ve turned my balls into raisins? LIES! Stinking SJW lies! I live DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH, SPINSTERS!!!)
Surrrrrre, Mikey. We believe you! (But we won’t buy your stinkin’ book, because Charmin is still cheaper and more convenient to use for that purpose.)
“Creators” of what? Petulance, manufactured outrage, and steroid juice that builds your biceps, but shrinks your ‘nads? I can’t stop laughing. This is liquid comedy gold!
Translation: I harass women. And try to buy sex off them. A lot.
Uh-huh. Surrrrrrre, Mikey. You’re a regular Brother Teresa. And no doubt you expect her to suck your shrunken dick for it, too.
And if she doesn’t, what then?