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Cassie Jaye tells Vocativ she was stalked by an MRA she interviewed for her Red Pill doc

The story of Cassie Jaye and her Red Pill documentary gets curiouser and curiouser. In an interview with Tracy Clark-Flory of Vocativ she admits that she’s actually a bit scared of the MRAs whose cause she now seems to be championing.

As Clark-Flory puts it:

It turns out Jaye understands fear of MRAs. “I luckily moved recently,” she said toward the end of our nearly three-hour-long conversation, explaining that some of the men she interviewed had her home address. “I was really glad to move.”

Indeed, Jaye told Clark-Flory that during the course of her interviews one of her subjects evidently became smitten with her, and, in classic MRA style, treated her to numerous late-night phone calls of an apparently amorous nature.

On nearly a dozen occasions, she received calls in the middle of the night from one of her MRA subjects. (There were multiple emails, too.) Jaye implied that her repeat caller had on the mind what one might charitably call romance … .

She acknowledges to Clark-Flory that with her film “kind of being funded by men’s rights advocates,” she worries a little bit about what they might do if her final product is not to their liking.

“I think any bad seeds would probably want to see the film first before taking me down,” she said with a laugh. What if they do see the film and view it as unfavorable, though? “I guess I could go into hiding,” Jaye said.

But she apparently isn’t too worried that her new MRA fans and financial backers won’t like her film.

“Do I want to have any kind of allegiance to them to make sure I’m not harmed in the end?” She paused, the question lingering, and then explained that her video diaries show her reacting negatively to the MRAs, but that those clips were part of her early “evolution” on the subject. “I think that protects me from people wanting to attack what I said then,” she said.

The implication seemingly being that the position she ultimately came to would not make MRAs angry with her. “I think it’ll be OK,” she said.

You can read the full piece here, and I really suggest that you do. Because WTF.

In related news, the Red Pill lawyer and juice salesman who apparently bought himself an Associate Producer credit for The Red Pill with a $10,000 donation is bragging that he “cuckolded” Seth Rogan … on Twitter. By which I mean not that he’s boasting about this on Twitter, but that he thinks he actually did the cuckolding on Twitter.

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weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Kupo,
In school, I remember learning about a study where a group of people with depression and a control group briefly interacted with each other in a platonic version of speed dating. Then they rated their impressions of others and they rated what they thought others impressions were of them.

The people with depression were much more accurate at rating how much the other people liked them. The non depressed people greatly over estimated how much people liked them.

It does kind of seem like you need to be a little delusional to be happy. It also, just anecdotally seems to me like people with mental health issues tend to be more interesting, intelligent, and creative and I wonder if it’s because we look critically at the world rather than just go through life ignorant and content, which makes them boring.

Just look at many of us here have depression, anxiety, substance abuse problems and all manner of other things 🙂

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Yes. I boasted about fabulous Mammotheers are. I don’t care if concern trolls use it as evidence we engage in circle jerking.

nightofthelepus
4 years ago

I worry for this filmmaker, mainly because I believe this project is still going to show the MRM in a negative light. Not that it needs any help in doing so, but since the MRM feels like they paid for something, they want the good press they feel they paid for. I do worry for her safety.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

@WWTH:

It does kind of seem like you need to be a little delusional to be happy. It also, just anecdotally seems to me like people with mental health issues tend to be more interesting, intelligent, and creative and I wonder if it’s because we look critically at the world rather than just go through life ignorant and content, which makes them boring.

I’d have said that the causation runs the other way: that people who are interesting, intelligent and creative tend to develop mental health issues because we find it harder to delude ourselves and live in a comfortable ignorant bliss. In many ways, depression and anxiety are an entirely reasonable response to the world we live in: a sane response, if you will.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Maybe. I don’t even know if you can fully determine the direction of causation. The two things seem so intertwined.

Tyra Lith
Tyra Lith
4 years ago

Wow, that video… So she doesn’t know what misogyny means, huh? And can’t be bothered to read what someone has written about her before declaring it a vicious attack and a smear campaign?
I guess she’ll fit right in with the MRA crowd.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@WWTH I was thinking of a similar study (possibly the same one) when writing that. I had insomnia and didn’t feel like looking it up, so I decided not to mention it. 🙂

I find people who don’t look critically at the world and especially people who think intention erases harm to be some of the dullest people I’ve met. I’d rather spend my time with depressed people; at least they won’t literally walk away when I’m talking about the pain I’m in. I actually had a group of friends walk away because talking about grieving made them uncomfortable. These are the people who say you can talk to them about anything, but then when you have something you actually need help dealing with, like the death of a partner, they don’t like being made uncomfortable so they remove themselves from the conversation.

Benny
Benny
4 years ago

@mrex

That study does not provide conclusive evidence that the presence of testes in males impacts life expectancy to such an extent to explain the gender gap in life expectancy. In fact, the reliabiliy of the primary piece of evidence used to ‘confirm’ the hypothesis, the study of korean eunuchs, is debateable. – http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/435854

Contrary to the study you have suggested, very strong evidence suggests that the life expectancy of both genders is largely dependent on a range of societal factors, as outlined in the following studies:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-6237.2012.00881.x/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25005485

Faint Praise
Faint Praise
4 years ago

It seems obvious they’re trying to drum up controversy to get support for the film. All the coverage has been about how feminists are shutting down the film somehow (no explanation given).

Even though her response video is ridiculous I hope we won’t see it covered here. It’s not newsworthy, just the back-and-forth internet war they’re hoping will bring in more supporters.

Please consider limiting coverage of this, make sure things are especially newsworthy instead of feeding the reaction they want.

Quintin
Quintin
4 years ago

“Cannes is a city in France.”

Great rebuttal.

Quintin
Quintin
4 years ago

It’s funny as hell seeing gators in /r/KotakuInAction line up to defend her when she’s doing exactly what they accused Sarkeesian of doing: drumming up funding by loudly claiming persecution. It’s only being a “professional victim” when people you don’t like do it, apparently.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
4 years ago

“Blogger David Futrelle has waged a misogynistic smear campaign against me. He has waged unfounded and baseless attacks against my character and reputation.”

She’s being egged by AVfM to garner publicity and traffic for them.

autosoma
4 years ago

as an update to every who was following my life shit. I’ve had to come back home as Mrs autosoma was so shitfaced the school contacted me to collect the kids and we’ve had a visit from a social worker who I’m seeing again tomorrow. I am shit scared of becoming a posterboy for MRA-ness if I was to relate some of the kakky kakness that gose with living with an alcoholic. But then her behaviours match that of my stepfather so I don’t think genders got anything to do with shittyness that’s going on. Ho hum back to the same

contrapangloss
4 years ago

Auto, my best advice is be honest with the social worker. If you believe your wife is not capable of caring for your kids safely due to her alcohol problems, then you are the best caretaker for now.

Maybe someday she’ll get her act together, and get the right type of help, and things’ll get better. Or maybe that won’t happen. Life sucks, sometimes.

I highly, highly doubt you will ever become an MRA posterboy, though. For one, you are way too mindful of becoming one, and that’s a good first step.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

mrex — having actually been on the receiving end of gaslighting, while actually diagnosably depressed, no, just no. That’s not how that works. Yeah, humans do weird things in perceiving reality, but that doesn’t mean someone can’t be objectively wrong, or that saying they’real wrong because they’real drunk, depressed, whatever is abusive, or even shitty. “But you only think that cuz you’re drunk” is a valid thing, probably not useful to actually say, but the fact that telling a drunk person that they’re drunk doesn’t ever get anyone anywhere doesn’t make it gaslighting or abusive or whatever the fuck it is you’re saying.

autosoma — do you have someone the kids could spend a few days with so you could stay in a hotel and not have to worry about their safety? Your parents, a sibling, sleep over with their best friends, something like that? Preferably while your wife sobers up a bit?

In any case, I know you’ve got NHS, take advantage of their counseling services, idk if they cover family therapy, but getting yourself a trained third party to help you sort your options and how you feel about them sounds like it would help. And definitely see about getting a psych for the kid that self harmed — I was that kid and being told in not so many words that my problems took a back burner to the parental problems hurt more than the parental problems. If nothing else, you can ensure she feels like her personal feelings matter in all this.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

Just be honest in the interview.

You’re not saying. “ARGLEBARGLE! BITCHES BE CRAAAAZY!”
You’re saying, “My wife has been doing X, Y, and Z and these are my concerns regarding her ability to care for our children.”

Did talking with the people at your synagogue bear any fruit?
Is there anyone who can help with the kids for at least the next few days?

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

My phone autocorrected “bitches” to “birches”.
comment image

autosoma
4 years ago

@contrapangloss & @Argenti thanks both.

She’s woken up a bit and ranted at me that it’s all my fault, i don’t what category if behaviour it falls into but there are a lot of items in the house that she got today that she’s telling me she hasn’t got, new phone, birthday presents, clothes. weird. Then she rants at me that the drink problem is her problem and she drinks to solve the drink problem. wow that’s complicated.

I’m on the ball regarding my youngest daughter and I certainly won’t disrespect her six year old, nearly seven feelings by making it unimportant.

we’ve got into this nasty bitter cycle and it has to stop, now I’m being called a wuss by her.

I’m never going to get answers, am I.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@autosoma
Right now, when your wife talks, that’s the alcohol talking.

You’re not an MRA for disliking what excessive alcohol can do to someone you love and rely on. (If I’m wrong, then I’m an MRA. Oops!)

I hope that the social worker is helpful. If not, keep looking for help.

Stay strong. We’re all rooting for you & sending positive thoughts your way.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@auto – Sorry for spamming you, but everything you post makes me more concerned.

My husband’s Mom would apparently get on tears like this and they didn’t end well.
Theis was a house that the police knew (from neighbors calling having heard the sounds of violence).

If she starts to get violent, get the kids and go someplace safe.
The MRAs do have a point regarding how the police generally handle domestic violence situations (at least over here) – if they show up and she’s injured (even if she’s injures herself in a drunken fury) they’ll likely take a look at you (if I remember correctly from the pic you posted, you’re a pretty substantial, rough looking guy) and draw the wrong conclusions.

Alan or someone may contradict this advice – I don’t know if going someplace safe with the kids might get an abduction or kidnapping charge or something thrown at you – and absolutely listen to them if that’s the case. Maybe call mutiple people to let them know what you’re doing and why in case it comes up with the authorities or in court.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

Sorry for the typos, typing fast on my phone.

autosoma
4 years ago

kat and mockingbird. I wish I could do the things you suggest but I can’t I need s support network and I haven’t got one. This is again a shitty situation and I stuck in it.

it really pisses me off, she’s staggering and ranging at me, the girls are in the next room worked up and stroppy and its all my fault.

Sges becoming an even bigger danger to herself and this is happening more frequently.

Shit I’m worked up as well and its driving me nuts, very nuts. She’s demanded I get her committed , I leave she leaves the children get put into care, she’s unfit, wants to kill herself. BTW this is a bit of a running commentary.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

The thing I’m about to say will likely piss of more than a few people, but having been on both ends of ranting suicidal… “She’s demanded I get her committed” — do it. Idk there, but here she can voluntary sign in for a 72 hour watch. It’s not exactly ideal, and the concept terrifies me, but there comes a time when “do you want me to call an ambulance?” or similar really is the best bet. If it’s the same there, 72 hours will sober her up, and maybe being inpatient can hook her up with the services she needs faster — I’ve heard NHS tends to dawdle on non-emergency mental health, but be far better if you’real inpatient.

mockingbird — I doubt taking your kids to a hotel would be cause for abduction charges if you’ve not been given court orders regarding custody. I mean, yeah, they have another parent, but they’real still your kids and as long as they’re okay with it I don’t see the problem. But I’m not a lawyer, I’m speaking from “we get to spend the night at grandma’s!!” here — definitely a good call on mom’s part when he was too piss ass drunk to be reasoned with.

autosoma
4 years ago

@argenti, Ivstartedvto make the call to NHS 24 and she asked me to kill the call, calmed down a lot and us now back in bed sleeping it off.

Ah that brought back memories of being schlepped round to me grannies… by the time I was 7 I was doing it in my tod. Funny, looking back on it I can’t remember if my nun and step-dad were oissed uo fighting or pissed up fucking about, either way the screaming and shouting of drunk fights or “fun” was enough to drive me out into my grabs arms.

I’ve got no one here to do that for me, Mrs autosoma has drunk dialed my family members and put a wedge between us all. Saturdays I;n tackling the sybagog congregants and asking for direct help, isn’t that what a religious community should provide? I go to shul not for the religion but for the people. I explained to the rabbi that My covenant with g-d us that I don’t bug him, he doesn’t bug me. The rabbi was pretty cool about that (given that my great great grand father was a pretty famous and well respected one – I get plenty if wiggle room with rabbis).

Cor! I must wind up a few of the MRA readership, Jewish, ex sapper, ex sex addict (I went cold turkey when I met Mrs autosoma, 11.5 years no cheating) trying not to be manospherian, who tries to be accountable.

well! people are people and deserve respect, and kids need stable secure parenting.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Autosoma — I hope she’s more reasonable to discuss things with in the morning, sleep and sobering up tend to have that affect. It’s what, 1 am there? Get some sleep, pray if that’s your thing, and stay safe. And don’t be as daft as my brother’s British not-girlfriend, pneumonia and 104° fever mean don’t tell your doctor you’re going home to work tomorrow — she too has a daughter, and y’all gotta take care of yourselves and your kids, sometimes everyone else can go fuck themselves.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

@autosoma
I’m glad that she’s sleeping it off now, but don’t hesitate to make that call if it escalates again. One problem with abusive behavior is that it tends to slowly increase in severity and the next increment always seems like not much more than where you already have been, so it’s easy to ignore. Don’t ignore it anymore. It sounds serious enough that action needs to be taken to protect you and your kids.

I’m really sorry that you have to go through this without a support network. I do think you should keep looking into your synagogue (sp?) to see what help they can provide. And keep talking to us to keep yourself grounded in reality, if it’s helping. It’s not MRA behavior to want distance from your wife for extremely fucking valid reasons, and I doubt anyone here will accuse you of such.

Tracy
Tracy
4 years ago

@mrex

In short, when your ex was banging on your door accusing you of something you didn’t do, did you;

1. Kindly but firmly assert your own reality that it wasn’t you? Good.
2. Agree with him? Unhealthy, yuck yuck boundaries, yuck yuck.
3. Imply, or outright tell him that he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about because he’s a drunk? Fuck you.

4. Ignore him completely, because I had drawn firm boundaries that included me not responding to him if he was under the influence, or after a certain time of night. This was so, so hard to do and took practice, but I finally got the hang of it. Killed me inside at first.

And for the record, he didn’t know what the fuck he was talking about because his thinking was very, very impaired. His perceptions were very real to him, sure, until the next day when he felt like a complete asshole because he realized his perceptions were incorrect.

No need for the pre-emptive ‘fuck you’ that went along with your #3. Jeez. Though there were several times when I outright told him he didn’t know what he was talking about (“I’m fine to drive”) because he was drunk (not “a drunk”, but drunk). Wrong of me? Shouldn’t have taken his keys away? Was I undermining his right to his perception of reality?

And I understand the whole ‘you don’t get to tell someone else what their reality is’ (and agree that in certain circumstances, attempting to do so is not only pointless, but can be hurtful/mean), but I don’t see your point here in this situation, unless its a roundabout way of saying ‘you can’t change her behaviour, only your own’, which would have been far clearer.

This entire blog is mocking certain people for their skewed personal ‘reality’, isn’t it?

Tracy
Tracy
4 years ago

@autosoma

it really pisses me off, she’s staggering and ranging at me, the girls are in the next room worked up and stroppy and its all my fault.

Nope, not your fault. And exactly what @kupo said: It’s not MRA behavior to want distance from your wife for extremely fucking valid reasons, and I doubt anyone here will accuse you of such.

I hope you can get support and help from people in your synagogue. When I was going through this with my husband, I got a lot of help from people online here:

http://alcoholism.about.com/mpchat.htm

There is a room for friends and family. It’s been awhile so not sure how active they are, but well worth having a look – talking to people online (while at work, bad me!) literally kept me able to get up in the morning and get through my day.

I also tried al-anon and, while it wasn’t a fit for me personally, others have found it helpful. Any idea if there are groups, or ones like it, in your area?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Tracy — “you don’t know what you are talking about (because) you’re drunk” doesn’t seem controversial to me. It’s why drunk dialing is a term! Yes, I’m sure it’s very true for you, and I was sure it was a good idea to call my fuckbuddy in the middle of the night, doesn’t mean it was objectively a good idea!

Saying someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about because they are a drunk is an actual ad hominem, saying a drunk person does not know what they are talking about at the time of being currently drunk? Yeah, that’s a feature of being drunk. Sometimes it’s fucking hilarious, other times you’re attempting to walk home and your roommate thinks it’s a good idea to sing the chorus of bye bye miss American pie on a loop, sometimes it’s “I have literally no idea how you came to that conclusion, so fuck off”.

mrex — I really don’t understand your problem with telling someone who is presently drunk that wtf they’re saying only makes sense to them cuz they’re drunk. I’m not seeing the difference between that and saying someone is wrong if they’re responding to half of a thing they missed the other half of.

Autosoma — listen to kupo, kupo is a smart one.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@autosoma
I’m so sorry that it’s gotten so bad. I’m especially sorry for the kids. Please keep looking for help. It’s the only way. The synagogue sounds great. A government agency. A nongovernment agency. Alcoholics Anonymous. The social worker you already spoke with. Suicide prevention hotline (you don’t have to be suicidal).

You don’t know what’s out there until you look. When I went through trouble with a live-in boyfriend, who turned on me once we had moved in together, I reached out to a hotline and then to nongovernment agencies. They understood and they helped me. I am so grateful to them.

Yes, the kids are going through a rough patch. But when you look for help, you are passing on some very, very important lessons about resilience and belief in yourself and your family.

Hang in there. Stay strong. You’ve come a very long way. Remember to keep eating, sleeping, and exercising (even if it’s just a daily walk around the block with your girls). And don’t stop looking until you get good help with what’s happening right now.

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

@autosoma – I’m pissed for you and hope that your synagogue steps up.
I’m not religious, but isn’t that half the frikkin’ purpose of religious communities – support in times of trouble?

And kupo’s exactly right – distancing yourself from toxic behavior isn’t MRA behavior, it’s self preservation.

Kat is, too – take care. It’s easy to run yourself ragged during a time like this. You don’t eat right, don’t sleep well, get overwhelmed, and it gets harder to perceive clearly and make good decisions.

@Argenti Aertheri – You might be surprised. In the US, it can vary widely by state. At least one defines “parental kidnapping” as “taking a child or children for more than 24 hours with the intent to conceal”. Since I don’t know UK law, I thought it best to err on the side of caution.

mrex
mrex
4 years ago

@auto

“but there are a lot of items in the house that she got today that she’s telling me she hasn’t got, new phone, birthday presents, clothes. weird.”

It’s bad news. Look into how you can legally protect yourself financially. Don’t feel bad about covering your ass. Has she been
financially abusive
in the past?

Since multiple people seem to be STILL misunderstanding me let me repeat; whether she’s correct, honestly mistaken, or purposely gaslighting, it is *not healthy* to internalize, without thought, whatever she says. I believe a lot of people are suspicious of a DARVO. It’s very reasonable to be suspicious, and it’s getting even more reasonable as her behavior deteriorates. IMO DARVO’s have two goals; to either get you to internalize her bs so that you remain compliant, or to get you upset so that she can paint you as the unreasonable, angry male. Proxy abuse is real; it will be best for you to take a page from her book and engage in some impression management. You don’t want to appear defensive and unreasonable, which means that you will, yes, have to be willing to admit to anywhere that your behavior *was* wrong, where you did contribute to the situation. If she’s an abuser, true to form, she will never be happy with what you do. Don’t manipulate the situation, but let her take the figerative rope and hang herself with it.

Sorry to hear that your support network isn’t there for you. Could any of your children’s friends mothers pick them up after school? Do you have any kindly, older, retired neighbors that raised kids and you are familiar enough with? How about the guys at work? You said many are sexist, they may be sympathetic to a good ex wife sob story, so mack it up.Any have stay at home wives, retired parents, work opposite shifts than you, etc? Any responsible teenagers on your street looking to make a few bucks? Any of your children’s friends have older siblings that they know and would be responsible enough to pick them up? How about the social worker? Did she have a list of after school programs or day cares? Does the school have a list? Try your family even if you think they won’t support you. Make sure you mention the fiasco with missing picking up the girls. Even if they don’t support you, there’s a chance that they’ll be willing to take help simply out of duty for your children.

Is your family mad at *you* for her drunk dials or are they mad at *her*? I ask because I’m wondering if it’s possible that they’re only mad at you out of disgust at *her* behavior and will be pleased as punch once they realize that you two are no longer an item.

Going through my separation was literally one of the worse periods of my life. It was like valentine’s day when single times 1000 because every where I looked, I saw happy families. I was miserable in the relationship, but it really sucked to mourn the loss of what I had dreamed it would be. It really is a loss much like the death of someone close. Take care of yourself.

@Argenti

” I really don’t understand your problem with telling someone who is presently drunk that wtf they’re saying only makes sense to them cuz they’re drunk

Because it’s basing someone’s wrongness/rightness on a feature of themselves and not on the facts of the situation? If someone’s wrong, it’s because they’re wrong, not because they’re drunk. The only reason why you would bring it up is to bully the other person into agreeing.

Look, I’ll talk more about this later; my migraine’s worsened to the point that I’m struggling to read and type.

autosoma
4 years ago

well after last night episodes and a long chat with the social worker and her parents, we’re all going to work together for the good of the children.

Now this trees been shaken some really rotten apples have fallen out.

thank you all for your advice and help. on the subject if gaslighting I think I’ve come to the conclusion of not paying attention to it. Her reality, my reality belong to each if us and as I can’t climb into her head to really see what’s there, then let’s not make a sobg and dsbce of it as it just muddies the waters. there are bigger things at stake

mockingbird
mockingbird
4 years ago

Again, take care autosoma.

contrapangloss
4 years ago

Good luck and take care of yourself, autosoma.

The social worker is there to help you (to the best of their abilities) and carelines and suicide lines are good people to talk to because they’ll let you talk until you figure things out… and if they hear anything super concerning (like imminent danger to you/kids/wife), they generally have the training to recognize it and notify the appropriate peeps.

Wishing you and the kidlets the best.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Thanks for keeping us updated autosoma, wishing you and yours the best.