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An Open Letter to Cassie Jaye, director of The Red Pill

Paul Elam: Subject of, and fundraiser for, Cassie Jaye's The Red Pill, in a shot from a preview of the film
Paul Elam: Subject of, and fundraiser for, Cassie Jaye’s The Red Pill, in a shot from a preview of the documentary

UPDATE 10/25/16: If you’ve come here after reading about a petition to cancel screenings of The Red Pill, I ask you to NOT sign any such petitions. It’s just free publicity for them. Read more of my thoughts on the matter here

Dear Cassie Jaye,

Congratulations. You surpassed your Kickstarter fundraising goal yesterday, more than two weeks before the Kickstarter campaign was scheduled to come to a close. You’ve funded the postproduction work on your long-delayed documentary on Men’s Rights activists, and then some.

But I’m not sure that the person I should be congratulating is you. Last night Paul Elam of A Voice for Men – the central subject of your film – was doing his own victory lap online. And no wonder, because he seems to be the real victor here.

In a post on his site that managed to be giddy and vindictive at once, he offered his congratulations to you, then, well, to himself. “Even though the victory goes to Ms. Jaye,” he wrote, in an awkward attempt at modesty, “I have the need to offer up some thanks.”

And then he spelled out why he thinks your “victory” is really a victory for him.

For the past six years AVFM has had mud kicked in its face by a corrupt, left-wing media. Bottom feeders like Adam Serwer, Jeff Sharlet and Mariah Blake have performed endless unscrupulous acts, directly lying to their readers in order to attack AVFM, this movement and me personally.

Their work was not just to harm me, or to damage a website but to make sure if they could that the message we carry never found its way to the larger public. Their intent was and is to paint an indelible stain on all of us so hideous that we would never be taken seriously by enough people to matter.

They have failed, and I can now predict that they have failed miserably.

In other words, Paul Elam thinks he and his friends in what he ludicrously calls the “Men’s Human Rights Movement” have bought and paid for a feature-length advertisement for them.

And it’s not hard to see why Elam – and the other manospherians who’ve rallied around your film in recent days — think this. After all, they are the ones who have rescued your film from oblivion by pouring tens of thousands of dollars into your Kickstarter.

And all it took for you to unleash this torrent of money was an interview with one of the sleaziest figures in right-wing journalism, Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart.

In the interview, posted on Monday, you complained that “I won’t be getting support from feminists. They want a hit piece and I won’t do that.”

There was more than a little bit of irony in the fact that you were saying this to a man infamous for his many hit pieces on so-called “Social Justice Warriors.”

You also complained about an intern on your film who, you said, “had a lot of crying attacks and emotional experiences. She claimed everything I was showing her was triggering her.”

A young feminist “triggered” and crying. This is red meat to the Breitbart crowd, and I have to assume you knew this when you told Milo this story.

To an outside observer like me, this shameful pandering looks a lot like a Hail Mary play on your part. Having failed to convince most potential funders of the film that you would present anything close to an accurate picture of the Men’s Rights movement, you told Breitbart what its readers – and the broader manosphere – wanted to hear.

And it worked. Men’s Rights activists, self-professed “Red Pillers” and other assorted antifeminists rallied around your film, and the money started flowing.

On Reddit, the moderators of the Men’s Rights subreddit “stickied” an appeal to donate to your Kickstarter to the top of their front page, urging MRAs to open their wallets in order to show skeptics that “we can take part in some actual activism and not just post stuff in here.”

Even the regulars in the violently misogynistic Red Pill subreddit agreed to help bankroll your film.

And it wasn’t just Men’s Rights and “Red Pill” Redditors who organized support for your film. One right-wing Red Pill blogger, notorious for his harassment of ideological enemies, pledged to match donations up to $10,000, describing your documentary as “the Movie SJWs Do Not Want You to See.”

Meanwhile, on her blog, AVFM’s “social media director” Andrea Hardie (an internet bully better known under her pseudonyms Janet Bloomfield and “Judgy Bitch”) not only rallied her readers around your Kickstarter but also set up a gofundme of her own, raising money in hopes that it would buy Breitbart’s Yiannopoulos a producer credit in your film. (I hope that is out of the question, even if she raises more than the paltry amount she’s raised for this purpose so far.)

And then there was Elam himself, on Twitter, calling on his followers to, in his words, “Help fund #RedPillMovie because fuck feminists!”

https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/658700057311506432

Accepting money from these people would seem to be a pretty clear violation of the principles you set forth in your own Kickstarter video, in which you declared that

in order to keep this film non-partisan, and respectfully show all sides to this debate, we won’t accept funding from organizations that inevitably have biased agendas.

Instead, you have chosen to take money from people who see your film as a chance to say “fuck you” to feminists. You have chosen to take money from the actual subjects of your film.

You are making a film about Men’s Rights Activists, funded to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars by Men’s Rights Activists. You are making a film about A Voice for Men funded in part by A Voice for Men.

Does that not trouble you at all? It should. In your interview with Breitbart, you noted that “films that support one side and act as propaganda do better than those that try to have an honest look.”

You said this, presumably, to set yourself apart from such propagandists. Now you seem to have cast your lot in with them.

Which I suppose makes sense, since the clips of your film that you’ve posted online so far look a lot more like propaganda than they do like any sort of honest look at the Men’s Rights movement,

I felt uneasy about your project from the start, concerned that you had been pulled in by the soothing but misleading rhetoric that MRAs spout when they are trying to sound more respectable than they really are, rather than on what MRAs actually say and do when the cameras are off of them.

But I knew you had a good reputation as a filmmaker, and heard good things from several feminists who knew you better than I did. So I held my tongue and tried my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, even when you posted clips from your film that portrayed AVFMers as heroic underdogs rather than the misogynists and malicious harassers that they really are.

When I wrote you a little over a week ago with some of my concerns, you assured me in the phone call that followed that the clips you had posted were only part of the story, that you were well aware that the MRAs you had interviewed were on their best behavior when talking to you, and that the real story of the Men’s Rights movement is far less rosy-hued. Against my better judgement, I continued to hold on to some kind of hope that you would live up to your reputation in the end.

And now, frankly, I feel like I’ve been played.

Unfortunately, it looks like you have been played too, much more spectacularly than I have. I suspect you are doing far more damage to your reputation than you even know.

One thing I have learned in five years of watching, and writing about, and dealing with, the Men’s Rights movement, is that if Paul Elam is happy about something, that thing is almost certainly terrible.

I suspect, sadly, that you will ultimately learn this lesson yourself, the hard way.

PS: In our phone conversation, you suggested that if you were able to fund your film, you might be able to finally film the interview with me that we originally had planned to do, but which fell through due to financial and other practical obstacles during the original filming of The Red Pill. At this point, I am sorry to say, that is completely out of the question.

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Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
7 years ago
kupo
kupo
7 years ago

@JS
Good point. I emailed David to ask him to edit out the flatmate’s info.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
7 years ago

Also, John, the stated purpose of the blog changed with the election of Trump; the old banner read “The new misogyny, tracked and mocked.”

The thread you decided to necro was written in 2015.

JS
JS
7 years ago

Sinister Pigeon! Hey, no hints!

Feline
Feline
7 years ago

@John Devalle:

blah blah blah

Paragraphs, child. I’m sure you will be taught about them in time, but you really should learn about them if you’re going to impersonate an adult.

@Jerry Donohue:

I got the maths thing off a youtube

Well, colour me surprised. While you’ve shown yourself to be unbearably incompetent in all other aspects, I really did believe you to be the mathematical genius you claimed to be.

JS
JS
7 years ago

@Jerry Donohue
Note: I’ve never claimed to be a mathematical genius, so I had to look up 3-manifold to be sure it was one of the simpler concepts.

I’d gotten it confused with a 3 dimensional brane (not a misspelling), which is also significantly different from what I’d thought it was.

However, you’ve been given enough hints, and if I’m right in interpretation, an example. It should be fairly straightforward by now.

Remember, no googling, because you’re supposed to be a math genius.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
7 years ago

“Define feminist scientist” OK the Israeli working in neuroscience (even though not qualified in that area) with an all female feminist team doing brain scans to prove that brain sex differences don’t exist. Quote ” because its dangerous to believe in brain sex differences” In other word she had a bias/pre agenda going in. You can watch her utubes (ted talks) or google press articles. Baron Cohens work would be an example of objective science.

Hagar Gelbard-Sagiv?

Oh, no. Okay. You’re talking about Dr. Daphna Joel. Specifically, you’re talking about “Sex beyond the genitalia: the human brain mosaic.”

Joel, Daphna, et al. “Sex beyond the genitalia: The human brain mosaic.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 112.50 (2015): 15468-15473.

Published in 2012, has almost 100 citations. It’s a good paper. I’ll point you to the scattergrams about 1/3 the way down – there are two sets, with the first set being a “hypothetical” set, and then the second being the results of examining over a hundred of each male and female brains. Look at the result set and compare to the hypotheticals. Do the results tend closer to “no consistency” or to “perfect consistency”?

(for those who can’t see, they tend very heavily towards “no consistency”, i.e. no statistical difference between the compared male and female brains.)

This paper is pretty darn robust, as I would expect from a scientist of her caliber. When she says that “it’s dangerous to believe that the brains of women and men are fundamentally different,” she’s saying that because it’s a TED talk and her audience is not an audience of experts, but laypeople interested in the societal impact of her work. She’s fighting sexism and lies, and that’s important. Because believing those lies is dangerous.

So if you could just point out where her mistakes are, that’d be great. Otherwise? I’ll continue to trust the crushing weight of evidence she has amassed.

Oh, you can’t, because you aren’t a neuroscientist, or a mathematician, or a scientist? Then where the heck do you get off telling a published doctor of neuroscience that she’s wrong?

Oh, and John corrected your bad french, but you missed that.

JS
JS
7 years ago

Whereas a categorical difference in the genitals has always been acknowledged,…

What a wonderful first line for a paper.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

@Jerry
In a debate (like the one you claim to want) if you make an assertion, you need to provide evidence. In a written format, like here, that would be in the form of links to credible sites that support your claims. Refusal to provide evidence while result, correctly in your case, as you being written off as spewing assfax.
In other words, you dense egg,comment image
is a reasonable response to your posts.

SinisterPigeon: Sombrero Golem
SinisterPigeon: Sombrero Golem
7 years ago

@JS I’m not gonna lie, I wasn’t trying to hint. I just was referencing Rick and Morty because Jerry reminds me of that Jerry mixed with a bit of the one from Undertale. I had to look up what it was after on google which I have no shame about because despite having one of them sought after “Male” brains, I am pretty awful at stem and this is fine. I can honestly say any STEM stuff I am even marginally competent at comes from a woman in my life who was patient enough to deal with my nonsense and teach me so this whole thesis Jerry is trying to put forward is laughable to me.

Croquembouche, poorly-dressed vandal
Croquembouche, poorly-dressed vandal
7 years ago

I would love to know in which particular STEM field Jerry works. I haven’t heard of any engineering projects, for example, where a dude says he wants to build a working space shuttle out of cheese, claims it’s been done lots of times before (“just google ‘that time when that dude whose name I forget did that thing'”), and points us to YouTube, the world’s most reliable science journal.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Jerry
Post your fucking citations. You have no courage when it comes to what you believe.

I just went back to look at your previous contributions, it’s the same old shit no one has any obligation to respect. You come here with feminists say this other people say that, fucking show me. I don’t give a shit about what you are presenting. I want what you saw, not what you say you saw.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

I guess John Devalle is utterly incapable of quoting people. They think we should just take their characterizations of things people say without the things actually said. I simply don’t believe them.

dslucia
dslucia
7 years ago

“I haven’t checked but…” and “I got it from Youtube”.

And alt-righties wonder why people have no interest in “debating” with them.

kupo
kupo
7 years ago

@Croquembouche
I’m guessing he’s a brogrammer. They frequently assume everything is easier to do than it is, handwaving it away with “someone on stack overflow said _____” or “I watched a 2-minute YouTube video that explains it” and then being shocked, shocked when it’s so much more complicated that several sprints in they’re in an intractable situation where they’ve already done 80% of the work only to find that other 20% won’t actually mesh with the existing code and they have no idea how to make it work.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@dslucia
It’s one of the more annoying patterns, one that that is pretty suggestive of the kind of people they are.
1. They feel comfortable coming here with characterizations of things without awareness that this is second hand criticism of people and positions. An honest person includes the specific things with the criticism. Without it they are gossipers and rumor-mongerers. The effort of looking shit up is placed on us when they came here.

2. When a link is present often it’s just a link drop with no quotes. So now we’re expected to keep their assertions, paraphrases and characterizations in mind while reading their source? That is literally expecting us to make their argument for them. They should be presenting quotes and statements about why the link supports them.

3. Videos. Visual link dropping. We should be getting time points, quotes, and reasoning like #2. Again they are trying to make us do their work for them.

They came here to us to pressure us into doing or seeing something differently. Or they want any other readers to see something. I’m disinclined to cooperate with this kind of behavior from political allies and opponents. This sort if thing is rude and unacceptable no matter who you are, and fails when it comes to persuasion.

A clear example of expectations from people used to being in authority and thinking they can just come in here and exhaust or manipulate people into something different. In addition to everything else bigotry is lazy as fuck.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

My guess is that Jerry is a first year computer science student.

The whole “I saw it on YouTube, therefore it is true” thing sealed the deal, but I’ve been suspecting this for a while.

He hints at great STEM expertise, but he doesn’t seem to understand a lot of science 101 type stuff. He doesn’t understand research methodology so he has to fall back on “it’s feminist science.”

He hints that he has multiple years of experience in engineering, including management experience. Yet, he doesn’t tell any real details and he doesn’t show any understanding of how the workplace actually works. Plus, trolls always tell us they’re engineers. In the manosphere, it seems to be the highest status occupation. They assume that we all have gender studies degrees, so they think they can half-ass it and no one will know any better. Jerry was probably not counting on there being a regular here who is an actually an engineer so he’s stuck avoiding questions.

He also doesn’t have a sob story about how a woman did him wrong, therefore men are oppressed. Manospherians who are in their 30’s or 40’s or older usually have one of these tales of woe.

I’m just overall not getting the sense that Jerry has much life experience. He comes off as one of those people who has no idea what he’s talking about and his hoping that smugness will convince people that he does. This seems to be causing him to lack the confidence to make a focused argument and discuss it in detail. This is why he is Gish galloping.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
7 years ago

Do trolls claim to be engineers because they worship at the altar of Scott Adams?

If so, that happens to remind me of a song.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 years ago

Re: providing references

I’ve just been reading a court transcript. (It may be of interest generally, but I’ll worry about that later). Anyway the litigant referred to something, and the judge asked for the relevant reference. The litigant said it was up to the judge to find it. So the judge said “Ok, here’s the deal. I’ll go look for it, but for every 10 minutes I spend doing that you spend 10 minutes in the cells.”

The litigant suddenly remembered he had a copy of the reference with him.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@wwth
That makes sense. There is a type that gets critisized and keeps coming back out of pride, but the remaining characteristics resemble a less organized dishonesty that is more like someone trying to come out on top in an unexpected fight instead of someone who has more of a routine in their social confrontations with respect to the issues focused on here. Dumping information to overwhelm is something I’ve seen as a general behavior.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
7 years ago

So you are all having a lend of me on the French thing, I am the only person here who actually grew up in France.

Your French certainly doesn’t sound “grown-up”.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Since this thread keeps getting combative visitors I copied and pasted the whole thing into word with the post for reference. More than 500 pages.

Wasn’t there recent discussion about a rewrite of the welcome post? A statement about this being an embattled community and that having consequences might help those who take the time to read. Any criticism needs to come with a cite, quotes, reasoning, and logic if the author thinks they have something.

kupo
kupo
7 years ago

@John
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/OohBurn.gif

@Brony
There was, but no one volunteered to take on the organization of it (a few people offered to help, but there’s still no one to coordinate the work).

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
7 years ago

@Sinkable John: I couldn’t deal with the lack of accents. My french is suuuuper rusty, but ‘tete’ made me twitch. It’s not like it’s hard to switch your keyboard from a french layout to an english one! In Canada, all keyboards switch at the most inopportune times, until you realise what’s happening and either disable that shortcut or uninstall all the extra keyboards.

Maybe francophones type without using accents, though? I really haven’t been on any sort of french internet since I like, graduated… So long ago now…. XD So maybe that’s just my school french going “OMG” and not representative of how people actually type. Iunnno!

JS
JS
7 years ago

Could have been worse, could have been “teetee a teetee”, turning a face-to-face meeting into a pissing contest.

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