UPDATE 10/25/16: If you’ve come here after reading about a petition to cancel screenings of The Red Pill, I ask you to NOT sign any such petitions. It’s just free publicity for them. Read more of my thoughts on the matter here.
Dear Cassie Jaye,
Congratulations. You surpassed your Kickstarter fundraising goal yesterday, more than two weeks before the Kickstarter campaign was scheduled to come to a close. You’ve funded the postproduction work on your long-delayed documentary on Men’s Rights activists, and then some.
But I’m not sure that the person I should be congratulating is you. Last night Paul Elam of A Voice for Men – the central subject of your film – was doing his own victory lap online. And no wonder, because he seems to be the real victor here.
In a post on his site that managed to be giddy and vindictive at once, he offered his congratulations to you, then, well, to himself. “Even though the victory goes to Ms. Jaye,” he wrote, in an awkward attempt at modesty, “I have the need to offer up some thanks.”
And then he spelled out why he thinks your “victory” is really a victory for him.
For the past six years AVFM has had mud kicked in its face by a corrupt, left-wing media. Bottom feeders like Adam Serwer, Jeff Sharlet and Mariah Blake have performed endless unscrupulous acts, directly lying to their readers in order to attack AVFM, this movement and me personally.
Their work was not just to harm me, or to damage a website but to make sure if they could that the message we carry never found its way to the larger public. Their intent was and is to paint an indelible stain on all of us so hideous that we would never be taken seriously by enough people to matter.
They have failed, and I can now predict that they have failed miserably.
In other words, Paul Elam thinks he and his friends in what he ludicrously calls the “Men’s Human Rights Movement” have bought and paid for a feature-length advertisement for them.
And it’s not hard to see why Elam – and the other manospherians who’ve rallied around your film in recent days — think this. After all, they are the ones who have rescued your film from oblivion by pouring tens of thousands of dollars into your Kickstarter.
And all it took for you to unleash this torrent of money was an interview with one of the sleaziest figures in right-wing journalism, Milo Yiannopoulos of Breitbart.
In the interview, posted on Monday, you complained that “I won’t be getting support from feminists. They want a hit piece and I won’t do that.”
There was more than a little bit of irony in the fact that you were saying this to a man infamous for his many hit pieces on so-called “Social Justice Warriors.”
You also complained about an intern on your film who, you said, “had a lot of crying attacks and emotional experiences. She claimed everything I was showing her was triggering her.”
A young feminist “triggered” and crying. This is red meat to the Breitbart crowd, and I have to assume you knew this when you told Milo this story.
To an outside observer like me, this shameful pandering looks a lot like a Hail Mary play on your part. Having failed to convince most potential funders of the film that you would present anything close to an accurate picture of the Men’s Rights movement, you told Breitbart what its readers – and the broader manosphere – wanted to hear.
And it worked. Men’s Rights activists, self-professed “Red Pillers” and other assorted antifeminists rallied around your film, and the money started flowing.
On Reddit, the moderators of the Men’s Rights subreddit “stickied” an appeal to donate to your Kickstarter to the top of their front page, urging MRAs to open their wallets in order to show skeptics that “we can take part in some actual activism and not just post stuff in here.”
Even the regulars in the violently misogynistic Red Pill subreddit agreed to help bankroll your film.
And it wasn’t just Men’s Rights and “Red Pill” Redditors who organized support for your film. One right-wing Red Pill blogger, notorious for his harassment of ideological enemies, pledged to match donations up to $10,000, describing your documentary as “the Movie SJWs Do Not Want You to See.”
Meanwhile, on her blog, AVFM’s “social media director” Andrea Hardie (an internet bully better known under her pseudonyms Janet Bloomfield and “Judgy Bitch”) not only rallied her readers around your Kickstarter but also set up a gofundme of her own, raising money in hopes that it would buy Breitbart’s Yiannopoulos a producer credit in your film. (I hope that is out of the question, even if she raises more than the paltry amount she’s raised for this purpose so far.)
And then there was Elam himself, on Twitter, calling on his followers to, in his words, “Help fund #RedPillMovie because fuck feminists!”
https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/658700057311506432
Accepting money from these people would seem to be a pretty clear violation of the principles you set forth in your own Kickstarter video, in which you declared that
in order to keep this film non-partisan, and respectfully show all sides to this debate, we won’t accept funding from organizations that inevitably have biased agendas.
Instead, you have chosen to take money from people who see your film as a chance to say “fuck you” to feminists. You have chosen to take money from the actual subjects of your film.
You are making a film about Men’s Rights Activists, funded to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars by Men’s Rights Activists. You are making a film about A Voice for Men funded in part by A Voice for Men.
Does that not trouble you at all? It should. In your interview with Breitbart, you noted that “films that support one side and act as propaganda do better than those that try to have an honest look.”
You said this, presumably, to set yourself apart from such propagandists. Now you seem to have cast your lot in with them.
Which I suppose makes sense, since the clips of your film that you’ve posted online so far look a lot more like propaganda than they do like any sort of honest look at the Men’s Rights movement,
I felt uneasy about your project from the start, concerned that you had been pulled in by the soothing but misleading rhetoric that MRAs spout when they are trying to sound more respectable than they really are, rather than on what MRAs actually say and do when the cameras are off of them.
But I knew you had a good reputation as a filmmaker, and heard good things from several feminists who knew you better than I did. So I held my tongue and tried my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, even when you posted clips from your film that portrayed AVFMers as heroic underdogs rather than the misogynists and malicious harassers that they really are.
When I wrote you a little over a week ago with some of my concerns, you assured me in the phone call that followed that the clips you had posted were only part of the story, that you were well aware that the MRAs you had interviewed were on their best behavior when talking to you, and that the real story of the Men’s Rights movement is far less rosy-hued. Against my better judgement, I continued to hold on to some kind of hope that you would live up to your reputation in the end.
And now, frankly, I feel like I’ve been played.
Unfortunately, it looks like you have been played too, much more spectacularly than I have. I suspect you are doing far more damage to your reputation than you even know.
One thing I have learned in five years of watching, and writing about, and dealing with, the Men’s Rights movement, is that if Paul Elam is happy about something, that thing is almost certainly terrible.
I suspect, sadly, that you will ultimately learn this lesson yourself, the hard way.
PS: In our phone conversation, you suggested that if you were able to fund your film, you might be able to finally film the interview with me that we originally had planned to do, but which fell through due to financial and other practical obstacles during the original filming of The Red Pill. At this point, I am sorry to say, that is completely out of the question.
Ah, ninja’d with that bit, Makroth! Wish my laptop wouldn’t take so long to post!
Good point, good point. Those e-mails you provided does not insult or threaten her personally. Calling them bullying is wrong.
I’m isolating the part about Elam for later reading. There seems to be a lot of catching up with that issue.
If it was me, I’d consider that all the more reason to do a live, public debate with her. But it isn’t me and David is free to do as he pleases.
However, that’s the one thing that I still can’t sympathize with
Warmest greetings to all,
The Fiyah Pokemon
@Eren: a live public debate =/= an interview for a documentary. While both can be manipulated, the interview can be totally changed by editing choices.
Here is the Kuleshov experiment, in which the same clip of a man was interspersed with different things for him to react to. The reaction at the time was to praise his acting in reference to each thing he was looking at. It is really fascinating how the human mind works!
http://youtu.be/zUZCPPGeJ1c
As an example of how changing something as simple as music can change the entire impact of a piece, have the original nintendo switch announcement:
http://youtu.be/f5uik5fgIaI
Now again, with a different music choice:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MaxScoville/status/789138411231678465
So knowing that someone is now indebted to a specific ideology, why would one want to give an interview? Knowing how easy it is to edit clips to meam totally different things?
Debating also assumes the other side comes in good faith, and has valid points to make. There are valid points to make about mens issues, but the MRAs aren’t making them. Source? Anything on this site, which links back to their own words.
Oh, I’m so glad we’ve impressed you.
You have a lot of catching up to do with the whole thing. I know why you didn’t before commenting.
I don’t understand this point about debating. What would the point be? What are they debating? Why is my laptop so slow?
@Manbro Everyboy
What would be the purpose of a “live, public debate”? All points that could be made in that setting can also be made on this blog, with the added benefit that it allows for research, more thoughtful responses, and fact checking. Live oral debates benefit liars.
If feminists were to accept every time some weirdo challenged them to a “formal debate”, they’d never do anything other than debating. It’s easier for everyone if people would just state their position and let people respond if they want. David has criticized (and mocked) Cassie Jaye and her PR movie in several blog posts here. If you’re so desperate to hear the arguments read out loud rather than in text form, just copy-paste them into a text-to-speech program.
Also, if you’re Team Valor you need to get the fuck out and join Instinct. We don’t need you.
@Imaginary Petal
That’s teamist. You’re crossing some lines pal.
I wonder which hatesite linked here? I’ve not seen a necro-troll influx as large.
@ Imaginary Petal
Yeah, it seems to be an MRA thing, the idea of formally debating everything. I think it must be partly because they think men are more logical and STEMy, and see formal debates as being a form of that. Unfortunately for them, it just makes them look utterly unreasonable and inept because they can’t possibly enter a debate without trying to delay it with unreasonable demands when they can’t live up to it.
Oh- ho, now we’re getting somewhere!
I think you may just have outed yourself as just another troll, Eren…
Didn’t take you long to trip up and reveal it.
@MC 3n3rg0n
Why is now, after the documentary is already complete, a good time for this interview? Back up your assertions with some kind of reasoning, please.
Not inspiring a shit ton of confidence there, hoss
Yeah. The only part of my comment that he bothered replying to, was the jokey line about Pokemon Go. Priorities!
@Axe
Right? Someone who was just banned from here and so would need to set up another sock if he wants to comment again kept making that same statement. The lady doth protest too much.
@kupo
That ‘ist’ taunt confirms it for me that they aren’t here in good faith. Mocking the concept of prejudice is a pretty clear tell.
@ rhuu
I found that fascinating when it was explained to me; and it explained so much. I first noticeably encountered the phenomenon when watching ‘2001’ and that bit where they’re discussing disconnecting HAL.
“Ooh, that’s torn it. He’s well annoyed now.”
“I think he looks frightened”
At the time we just praised Kubrick and got into a debtate about whether he changed the lighting or the framing or something. But it just goes to show how even an inanimate object can be made to display emotions (ironically, more convincingly than some of the humans actors in that film).
@kupo
It’s such a tired defense. Socks aren’t bad just cos. They’re bad, cos the people who use them tend to be total assholes. I don’t have any puppet accounts either. I don’t need any. I’m not a shit. Don’t be a shit
“Eren Can Sinecan” has to be an anagram for something. I’d say “Inaner Nascence,” but I don’t think
Mr AlEren has that much self-awareness.@ Eren:
Given that the documentary has been completed, so an interview now couldn’t be included in it, no, its not a better time.
Good to see you have now realised you need to catch up on a few facts. Do let us know what your informed opinion is, once you actually become, you know, informed. Feel free to explain why you came diving in with your uninformed opinion, while you are at it.
Particularly your uninformed opinion that a live debate between David Futrelle and Cassie Jaye is something either of them owe to people who just want
Has she expressed a desire for a debate? (I can see how it might provide her useful publicity. Or negative publicity.) Show me a link where she does.
If she’s allowing questions and comments the same way @David Futrelle is, I’d be interested to read them, and maybe make some of my own.
I am using my actual name and surname posting here. So you can look me up if you doubt my sincerity. You’ll find that it stretches over too many platforms and years consistently, just to be used here to troll a single comment thread.
@nparker: Of course I had some opinions formed already when I first came here. Since I knew I was not as well informed on the subject as people here, I was perfectly willing to change them. Now, I want to keep things in good humor and I’m generally having a good time. But I got your point. You think that I am a troll who necros, who also has tripped up. You have made that clear over, and over, and over again.
@kupo: There is a good bit of controversy regarding the ban of the documentary in Australia. Which I also would like to hear your take on. Because in all honesty, I probably wouldn’t even hear of it if not for the ban.
@Croquembouche: Alright alright I apologize. I’m leaving now, thanks for having me over these two days.
@Eren Can Sinecan
The financial reason was that she ran out of money to send herself and a film crew to interview me, or at least that’s what she told me.(She was originally going to interview me and at least one other person in Chicago.)
After she raised the kickstarter money she make a vague comment about possibly doing more interviews with me and perhaps others. As far as I know, she didn’t end up doing any more filming but I could be wrong.
Generally speaking, no one is paid for interviews, at least in the world of serious journalism. Some tabloids do pay for interviews. On the one occasion I was interviewed by a publication that does pay for interviews (a British newspaper) I turned down the money because I felt that to take it would be unethical.
Not at all the point
Ban =/= pulled from a single (rather niche) theater chain. More things about which you should get better informed…
Oh, for fuck’s sake. The film is not banned in Australia. I’m assuming one of the places Eren comments is on JB’s blog.
@nparker: Of course I had some opinions formed already when I first came here. Since I knew I was not as well informed on the subject as people here, I was perfectly willing to change them.
Now, I want to keep things in good humor and I’m generally having a good time. But I got your point. You think that I am a troll who necros, who also has tripped up.
You have made that clear over, and over, and over again.
@kupo: There is a good bit of controversy regarding the ban of the documentary in Australia. Which I also would like to hear your take on. Because in all honesty, I probably wouldn’t even hear of it if not for the ban.
I think I give up on these blockquotes, I really do. I’m just gonna use ” from now on!
To Blockquote: Highlight the text you want to have quoted, then pres “quote” butan.