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#gamergate 4chan advocacy of violence antifeminism atheism minus creepy empathy deficit hate speech men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny oppressed white men racism TROOOLLLL!! YouTube

Is the Trollhattan killer also the first killer troll? Anton Lundin-Pettersson’s online world

TrollFace_HD

Yesterday morning, a man wearing a military helmet and a Darth Vader mask entered a school in Trollhattan, Sweden, carrying a sword. After posing for a picture with two students who thought his outfit was a Halloween costume, he stabbed a teacher with his sword and began attacking other students. He killed two and seriously injured several others before being shot by police.

Those looking for a conventional answer as to why he did it don’t have to look too far: The killer, identified in the media as 21-year-old Anton Lundin-Pettersson, seems pretty clearly to have been motivated by racist and religious hatred towards Muslim immigrants. The school he picked for his violent rampage is overwhelmingly populated by immigrants; surveillance footage of his rampage reportedly shows that he deliberately targeted people of color.

A suicide note he left behind reportedly railed against immigrants. He was apparently also a supporter of a proposed anti-immigrant referendum, and a YouTube account identified as his followed several YouTubers known for railing against Muslims, including  Howard Bloom, an eccentric author whose latest book, the self-published “The Mohammed Code,” purports to show  how Mohammed sought to use violence to take over “the entire world.”

But Lundin-Pettersson’s rampage, while clearly driven by hate, was hardly a conventional hate crime. There is his bizarre outfit: in addition to wearing a Darth Vader mask (and a Nazi-era German army helmet) he reportedly shouted out Vader’s famous line “I am your father” as he launched his attack. And he apparently provided his own soundtrack for the rampage, playing what one witness described as “terrifying” Halloween music as he stalked the halls of the school, as if he were re-enacting a favorite scene from a movie or a hack-and-slash video game.

He may also have announced his planned rampage on 4chan the day before, in the creepy tradition of the Umpqua Community College less than a month ago. According to a screenshot now circulating on the internet — I haven’t been able to confirm it — he warned the denizens of 4chan’s r9k forum, in a post deliberately echoing the words of the earlier killer, to skip “school tomorrow if you live in Sweden,” adding a Trollface graphic along with his note and telling his readers that “my image will be of relevance.”

If the 4chan screenshot is real, it suggests that the Trollhattan killer was deeply enmeshed in “troll culture” online, a world in which violence and even mass murder can be reduced to an assortment of memes, where someone like mass murderer Elliot Rodger can be hailed, only partly ironically, as the “supreme gentleman” he famously declared himself to be.

Invariably, when people on 4chan or YouTube — or some other cesspit of the internet — start making jokes about mass killers, or even hailing them as heroes of sorts, we’re told that none of their comments really count; they’re just trolls, doing what trolls do.

But scratch a troll posting racist memes, and you will almost certainly find a real racist; scratch a troll posting misogynistic attacks on Anita Sarkeesian, and you will find a real misogynist. When trolls send rape and death threats to those they genuinely hate, their recipients need to take them as seriously as more obviously “serious” threats.

The world of the trolls is a nasty, hateful world, and those who soak in it too long may end up lashing out at the world in violent ways.

Indeed, it’s telling that the Trollhattan killer’s favorite YouTuber (if the account attributed to him is really his) was the noxious rager who calls himself TheAmazingAtheist. Lundin-Pettersson subscribed not only to TAA’s main channel but to his personal channel as well, and he favorited dozens if not hundreds of TAA’s videos (I stopped counting). Unlike some atheist activists, TAA doesn’t devote much time to trashing Islam; he’s far more interested in bashing Anita Sarkeesian and other supposed SJWs.

But TAA affects a hyperbolic “mad as hell” persona that, despite its obvious theatricality, seems to be rooted in a good deal of real anger. I can barely make it through a single video of his, and can only imagine the corrosive effect that watching dozens of his rage-filled videos would have on someone’s soul.

Naturally, YouTube comments being the cesspool that they are, the Trollhattan killer is receiving a good deal of posthumous support from racists, trolls, and racist trolls.  An assortment:

troll1

troll2

troll3 trlll4

troll5

troll6

troll7 troll8 troll9

There are critics, of course. And a few commenters who feel that he hadn’t killed enough people to deserve all this adulation.

trolcount trolcount2A reminder: these are from YouTube, not 4chan; I honestly don’t have the stomach to wade into the assorted 4chan threads devoted to the killer.

At this point, I think it’s become clear that websites that permit the posting of this sort of unregulated hate speech — from 4chan to Reddit to YouTube — are enabling the hateful troll culture that seems to have turned Lundin-Pettersson into the monstrous “troll” murderer who took two lives yesterday.

 

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kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@dhag85
I’m a huge fan if sesame oil myself. I just made some homemade ramen with sesame oil and adzuki bean noodles the other day. Soooo good.

Orion
5 years ago

Was “The State of Man” the lecture Roosh V gave at his “world tour” events? He wants me to know that if I act in the next 5 hours, I can download the video *and* the transcript for just $7.

Sadly, the special edition Roosh V USB drives have sold out.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Was “The State of Man” the lecture Roosh V gave at his “world tour” events? He wants me to know that if I act in the next 5 hours, I can download the video *and* the transcript for just $7.

Sadly, the special edition Roosh V USB drives have sold out.

>guffaw<

Is the Roosh V toilet paper still available? Oh wait, what am I saying? He doesn't USE toilet paper!

Forgot_me_username
Forgot_me_username
5 years ago

Behold the new fascism! Instead of brownshirts, peaked caps and blackshirts we’ve got quasi-pedophilic manga imagery, memes that are as vile as they are childish, all symptomatic of a generally obnoxious man-child-like attitude (and language to boot!).
Empathy, basic decency, even courtesy (the very notion of “netiquette” has become conspicuously absent in the age of social media)? What are you, a “moralfag”?

Granted, their blood-stained ideological predecessors and idols weren’t too strong on these points either. Self-presentation and habitus aside, other characteristics such as ideology, predominant personality structures etc. appear to be very much the same as “back then”.

Sometimes I really think it is pointless to be a humanist anymore these days. In my darker moments, I wish for something like the combined might of the Red Army and the Royal Air Force to come down on these people, be they sword-swinging image-board Nazis, social media demagogues or arsonists of refugee homes. Don’t worry, I do snap out of it, but the anger remains.

I am done with “free speech” libertarianism. Maybe Marcuse was right about tolerance after all.
Hate speech itself may not kill, but it all too often it has been a prelude to atrocities of all kinds. I have got no background in law or political science, so feel free to ignore what follows. Also, there are many psychological factors and political ramifications that have not been sufficiently considered by me.

As much as I despise Singapore’s regime and many of its values, their prohibitive approach to ethnic hate speech (which has been shown to have been contravened by members of its ruling elites, such as Lee Kuan Yew himself) might have some aspects to be recommended. Well, Singapore as such shouldn’t really be the model here anyway. And yes, I am well aware that anti-hate speech legislation already exists in more liberal democratic states too- but so far it has done awfully little to ameliorate what has become a rampant social problem.

Some things are best left unsaid (unwritten or undrawn ) in public- be it on the street, the workplace, in a magazine or the web. Full stop. End of. This approach has to be combined with a pro-active and progressive anti-racist, anti-sexist etc. education. Peddlers of hate speech might deserve harsh punitive measures such as legal sanctions, unconditional firing from work, public doxxing, and shaming etc. Punishment may be harsh, but it should never be draconian; it should always entail the aspect of rehabilitation (a naive example: imagine having a convicted “white” racist doing community service in a predominantly “PoC” neighbourhood for example) and I do not advocate something along the lines of, say “re-education camps” here. The perpetrator should not be subject to cruelty in return or be unduly traumatised, but made to understand the heinous nature of their actions. The result should not be a new, criminal(ised) underclass (I understand that if my proposal were to be combined with, say, the US prison system, the consequences could very well be unthinkable).

Of course extralegal forms of retaliation (e.g. via social media) such as vigilante abuse, personal attacks and bullying must be equally prohibited and punishable offenses. To be fair, all these more a staple of the internet “anti-SJW” hard right… but shitstorms in general (even on behalf of the worthiest cause) are many things, but the epitome of civilised behaviour they are not.

What I want is not the “coddling of minds”. Just a change of perspectives. Hate speech- whether directed against a person or an abstract group- is abuse, and should be treated as a crime with all consequences (technically it already is in many countries). It should be seen as a reprehensible act that should not be tolerated. I am also under no illusions that intervention by the state will make the very phenomenon hate speech go away. Some evils will probably stay with us as long as humanity exists- but we can at least try to rein in their occurence and the scope of their consequences (I am similarly pessimistic about other crimes). Depictions of hate speech in the arts, or for the sake of education, must of course be allowed.

Repressive and authoritarian? Do-gooder pie-in-the-sky armchair social engineering? Intolerant? Empowering internet surveillance? Might not prevent tragedies like in Utoya, Isla Vista, Trollhättan? Prone to abuse by governments (especially those of a nationalistic and authoritarian bent- such as Singapore’s)? Doesn’t this mean the de facto outlawing of entire political viewpoints and ideologies? … …

Maybe, but what really are the alternatives?

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

“He doesn’t USE toilet paper!”

Wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t. Much of the world doesn’t, and it does destroy trees, forests. His father is from Iran where most people don’t use it. They have squat toilets and use water or they have binets. Many immigrants I know continue to use water, binets and other methods even after moving to toilet paper countries. I myself have a different sort of method, combining the best of both worlds, which conserves on toilet paper use. TMI so won’t get into it here. But I’m doing my part to save the forests.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Yeah, Virtually is definitely just trolling now. That had as much connection to reality as the average MRA whinefest.

If you want to blame scary scary brown people, oh noes other cultures and/or immigrants for rape, go hang out with Trump, not with us. He might even believe that you’ve ever stepped outside of the USA and aren’t just lying to give credence to your gross-ass racism!

contrapangloss
5 years ago

I dunno.

I mean, if Virtually wasn’t around for Roosh’s whole “But wiping my butt is so hard and the ladies are oppressing me by expecting me to make sure my but is clean and my genetalia doesn’t smell funky” whinefest, they might legit be confused by Bina holding not using toilet paper against Roosh.

Of course, there’s other things that kind of do ping the trolldar. So, you could be right.

The response to Bina doesn’t necessarily hit the trolldar, but the whole rape thing? Yep.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Wasn’t one of Roosh’s super secrit PUA strategies to impress the ladies stockpiling toilet paper so she would see how prepared he was? I don’t think his reluctance to wipe his own ass has anything to do with his iranian background or consideration for the environment. He’s just a gross, lazy, inconsiderate asshole.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

Oh please, not only is racism but straight up fascism in the rise and going strong in Europe.
I think some early 20th century attitudes and ideas survived very well, they just went underground for a while. Ever since the 90’s and early 2000’s there has been increasing talk about racism and racist groups all around Europe. There are some very interesting ans insightful documentaries on youtube I recommend you to check out. The atmosphere here is tense.

I thought Finland would beat Sweden and be the first one to have a racist killing rampage, as it is only a matter of time here.
I want to be offended over that one guy’s romanticising Valhalla, as if this is the true Nordic way, but looking at the current political atmosphere and recent events he might be right.
Welcome back to the iron age.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

“I mean, if Virtually wasn’t around for Roosh’s whole “But wiping my butt is so hard and the ladies are oppressing me by expecting me to make sure my but is clean and my genetalia doesn’t smell funky” whinefest”

I wasn’t! Link? He claims not to clean his butt at all after number two? Or did he just say he doesn’t use toilet paper? Because there are other ways to clean the butt (actually cleaner ways, because wiping with dry paper just smears). Maybe because he uses a non-toilet paper method and therefore doesn’t have any tp in his apartment, people think he doesn’t clean it at all. The guy’s a huge jerk, but I wouldn’t hold not using tp against him. One could even argue that its prejudiced to do so. Stick to his real offenses, like targeting drunk women for non-consensual sex. I can’t believe he admitted doing so on his own site and there’s still been no legal investigation. Other countries have managed to boycott him. What’s up with the US – the country this guy is from? Why aren’t they on it?

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@Virtually
His rant was around having to groom himself if he wants to date women, including needing to wipe thoroughly. It wasn’t related to TP at all.

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/02/why-pickup-guru-roosh-v-resents-women-for-forcing-him-to-clip-his-fingernails-and-wipe-his-own-ass/

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Ah, upon further investigation, it was actually Christian McQueen who gave out that fantastic “impress ladies with toilet paper” advice, and not Roosh. I retract my previous statement. https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/01/30/seduce-the-ladies-with-phone-chargers-calamari-and-toilet-paper/#more-15124

According to Roosh’s whining about the inappropriate amount of grooming that ladies demand, one of the items listed was “wipe my ass thoroughly”. This does seem to imply that he uses toilet paper. He just doesn’t want to.
https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/02/why-pickup-guru-roosh-v-resents-women-for-forcing-him-to-clip-his-fingernails-and-wipe-his-own-ass/

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Curses, ninja’d.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
5 years ago

Ahh, the infamous “I have to throughly remove the shit from my ass?!?” post!

And really Virtually? Would you rather a proper doctor go straight to ex-lax for a kid? See, I say proper doctor cuz odds of you being a pediatrician are quite low, and even if you are, we’re talking 25 years ago here!

This is hilarious guys — autocorrect makes Doctor a proper noun and predictive text suggests “who” to follow it… I may be a bit obsessed ehh? I’ve come to like Twelve, it always felt like I was tolerating Eleven, but I like the Doctor Twelve has brought to my screen. Ten will always be my Doctor though 🙂

autosoma
5 years ago

I often feel that the EU is caught between a rock an a hard place, it doesn’t know which role to take, advise, monitor and aid or be a federated government and act.

For example at the moment in Sweeden and Norway we;re watching a house price bubble close to popping, that combined with near negative interest (you gave to pay to save, rather than receive payment for letting a bank handle your money- interest earnt) and increasing personal/household debt. This could cause a market crash where, the already rightwing annoyance becomes amplified.

For the first time were seeing in the UK immigration as being a major issue in a referendum for us staying in the EU. Now some thing out membership is inconsequential, but if this triggers an exit (which has never happened – for US readers imagine California up an leaving the US). The consequences are far reaching. The EU has bent over badly to keep Greece, is worried about Spain and Ireland. Our exit could cause a snowball.

Also the UK isn’t the only EU country feeling this way, France and Belgium are showing higher percentage than the UK in polls regarding immigration and EU policy.

So three established, founding States of the EU’s populations are showing greater than 50% interest in Exiting. That’s disturbing, and it will cause a retrenchment in mindsets and cause a rise in rightwing nationalism of pre WW2 levels. Migration will be cause celebre for this round of economic mismanagement by governments and central banks.

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Nvm I read it. That was odd.

Hmmm, the thought of a country leaving it does seem odd, but I thought it was more of an alliance like nato or the un or something, are your economis and governments that tied together? Or am I missing something here? Since autosoma compared it to statehood, which would be every member is bound by common laws and a higher government.)

(I’m from the US and get very confused by European politics, not to mention some political parties in different countries have the same names as us ones but opposite ideologies ) :p

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Oh and I am struggling to understand the anti anime trend I’ve seen in a lot of feminist groups lately, especially as I think of cosplay as a hobby who’s members are generally feminist, or at least have feminist leanings, especially in anime related groups. I feel like it’s a weird push back that is coming from only seeing the fringes of a group, and not actually understanding a pretty big art style.

Also last time I brought this up I was told I couldn’t be a feminist because I’m male so that’s the additude I associate that thought with.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Robjec:

The EU is something of a middle ground between a free-trade area and a project to build a superstate by slowly breaking down the national governments.

Traditionally, everyone on the Right dislikes the superstate aspects of it; some people on the Right like the trade aspects enough to support it regardless.

Traditionally, everyone on the Left dislikes the free-trade aspects of it; some people on the Left like the superstate aspects enough to support it regardless.

In Britain at the moment, there is something of a brawl between those two factions of the Right. The pro-EU business lobby are in political ascendancy, but they’re worried by the grassroots strength of the anti-EU nativists. The two factions have decided to settle matters via a referendum.

The business faction are okay with this because no British referendum has ever returned any result except “keep things as they are”, and they expect the same result here. The nativists are okay with this because it plays to their grassroots strengths and nullifies their weakness of having relatively little access to the elites.

We’ll see.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Virtually, Catalpa has provided the link for you.

All hail the catalpa!

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Ah ok. Thanks for always answering my questions ej 🙂

forgot_me_username
forgot_me_username
5 years ago

Trigger warning: This post contains a translation of a German Neo-Nazi, anti-refugee facebook post.

On the topic of racism/fascism in Europe (or more specifically, ze Fazerland, Germany):

the beast is very much alive and kicking. So while there are lots of decent people around here, it is not helpful at all to overlook the real threat from the right. And the whole refugee situation- including the coverage- is exacerbating the picture in the long run. In the end, perceived economic self-interest and plain old xenophobia trump decency and common sense. There has been a strong sense of disillusionment with Europe’s current form of (neo-)liberal democracy (just look at the diminishing turnout at state elections) as well as a perceived powerlessness in the face of corporate interests. And it is not only loony lefties like myself who see it that way, but also more moderate, respectable people as well as classic conservatives. Add to that the rise in conspiracy-mongering on the web has and you have got yourself an extremely toxic mixture.

The result is a sense of political disenfranchisement which is growing on the fringes and now increasingly extends to the centre. Great news for the people who offer easy solutions. 21st Century-style social liberalism (which includes feminism as well as a humanist stance on the refugee crisis) may have become relatively mainstream, but has become the bête noire of the ascendant Right, be it populist-conservative or outright fascistic.
Among the results: racist mass rallies and attacks on refugee centres.
So, the heirs of the Nazi party are doing very well in the Fatherland. Not only on imageboards and the like. Facebook is full of their filth. If you understand German, check out this watch blog; perlen-aus-freital.tumblr.com/ .

To give you an impression, here’s a translation of one of the more recent entries, documented on facebook and posted under what I presume to be a real name (trigger warning again: this is the “ugly German” in their purest form: unapologetically hateful, with inhuman views and a tenuous grasp of basic German orthography and syntax)

“This is the Nazi Party of Koblenz (note: a city in the Rhineland).
We are calling for the overthrow of the Government, CDU, SPD (note: the Christian Democratic Union and Social Democratic Party, the current parties in government).
We are the mob, and we are striking back.
We will heng (sic!) them all. the cop pigs too.,
if they don’t come over to our side.
All asylum seekers into the GAS CHAMBER, ASAP”

“”

occasional reader
occasional reader
5 years ago

Hello.

megpie71 | October 23, 2015 at 7:07 pm

I’ve been saying for a while that mass shootings in the USA (and really, mass killings in general) should be covered by the media in much the same way that suicide is covered now – there should be a lot of discretion involved

I apologize for digging up an old comment.
Just to say that i agree. To believe the sociologist Cialdini, coverages may lead to some snowball/copycat effect. He states that, as an example, if there is a plane crash covered in the mass media, during a variable amout of time (in this particular case, it was some weeks), the risk that the same kind of incident occur increases a lot (i do not remember the figures, and the book is not recent, even if the successive editions are updated). He also mentions suicide as an example. Thus, i believe it may also be extended to mass murder.

Well, i just hope all those things are not going to escalate to some kind of creeping civil war before exploding in something even worse.

Have a nice day.

forgot_me_username
forgot_me_username
5 years ago

Now readers might understand why I have become increasingly hostile to the notion of totally unfettered free speech.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Brexit is less like California leaving the US and more like the US leaving NAFTA.

The theory is that, unlike the US, the EU is not meant to be a Federation it’s meant to be a confederation.

Of course the fact it is heading towards federalism is one of the main complaints of the Euro sceptics.

The interesting thing now is that there’s been a revival of the Bennite anti EU sentiment on the left after what happened in Greece.

So the referendum will be interesting, it won’t be a left right split as there are left and right people on both sides of the issue.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
5 years ago

Thank you very much to Autosoma and EJ for going deeper to the subject of right wing politics in Europe. When I was typing my message earlier I ran out of matches to keep my eyes open with so had to keep it short and sweet. I believe I even gave the (annoying) general instruction of ‘go check youtube’ – ugh.

And thanks to forgot_me_username for the blog tip, I was looking for something awful to read for the rest of the day!

In order to find y’all some links I took my own advice and checked out youtube. To my deep disappointment they had taken down this wonderful documentary series that covers the rise of new fascism and extreme right groups in different countries in Europe.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@contra

… Huh. I actually meant the rape post, the TP post wasn’t even there when I posted. o_O That’s what I get for being too lazy to blockquote. =P

Tabby Lavalamp
5 years ago

@Robjec

Oh and I am struggling to understand the anti anime trend I’ve seen in a lot of feminist groups lately

I enjoy anime, but it can be a struggle to find series that have a positive feminist portrayal of women, even with shows that have a majority of female characters.

skiriki
5 years ago

@Tabby Lavalamp:

I enjoy anime, but it can be a struggle to find series that have a positive feminist portrayal of women, even with shows that have a majority of female characters.

Yeah, and when you go from shōjo to shōnen, things get really ridiculous.

Exhibit A:
http://i.imgur.com/LmwcFVC.gif

Exhibit B:
http://i.imgur.com/p0qA0Ae.gif

Exhibit C:
http://i.imgur.com/9Y6Tu6K.gif

Holy gainaxing, Batwoman! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Gainaxing)

And I do dare say it has gotten worse as years go by. Ugh. (Curiously, I’ve seen modern hentai where the idea of “enthusiastic consent” is really in play and women know what they want for their own pleasure, not just for the guy’s. At this point it is good to remember that a lot of hentai is made specifically for non-Japanese audience, though, so…)

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

comment image

I…I…
…the first thing that those GIFs bring to mind:
comment image

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

It’s amazing how well Exhibit B syncs up with Yakety Sax.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@Skiriki

And many anime fans wounder why non-fans think of us as being a bunch of perverts.

skiriki
5 years ago

@Fabe — yeah… I am an anime fan, but that doesn’t mean I must shut my brain and eyes for its problems. 🙁 ‘Cuz, damn.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

I’m at the point where I just roll my eyes and think to my self “Really? you had to go there?” Example; in one series I’m watching called ‘gate’ has a goth Lolita demigodess character who follows a god of death and war. OK not really that big of a deal, then during one episode we she her become sexually stimulated as the souls of dying warriors pass though her body on the way to the after life. definitely a eye roll moment there.

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

@Robjec thats more to do with the fact so many GGs are anime fans. Look I like anime but the fanbase is terrible. The Mal forums are basically 4chan-lite.

@Tabby Lavalamp
I generally think this is a problem in anime that could be fixed incredibly easily. There are so many great shojo manga written for women by women with great female characters that just need an adaptation. Alot of Ghibli films though have great female protagonists.

@skiriki
I always find that weird given Gainax made EVA which I always thought was incredibly critical of the way anime fans viewed women. Then again the did made Gurren Lagann.

skiriki
5 years ago

@justlikeheaven — I know, but don’t worry, fanservice moments are in rebuild series of EVA. /s

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Oh geez eva is always one of the shows I think of a worst towards women.

And I mean I know it has problems, but there are a lot of good things to it to, and I just feel like the movement in general attacks it without really understanding it, but rather just having been shown some of the worst offenders. At least this is how it feels, not so much here, although I thought the comments about the avatars was weird, but in general feminist blogs and stuff.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

See, shit like this is why I put more and more distance between myself and internet culture. It’s further proof that concepts like “free speech” lose their value every single time some shithead goes out of their way to defend it as “just jokes” or whatever convenient excuse they have in their rhetorical arsenal. They seem unable to comprehend the idea that not every form of speech is worth being protected tooth and nail by everyone else, when it comes to public discourse, and that discouraging them doesn’t instantly equate to “censorship.”

Re: South Park

Matt Stone and Trey Parker can go fuck themselves. So can their cultish sycophants who, unable to have opinions of their own, treat the show as if it were their version of the Holy Bible. It makes for damning proof that Libertarianism is just a secular religion wherein God is replaced with “The Market” and certain entities – like, say, CEOs and the companies they run – are immune from judgment regardless of how hypocritical their behavior might be.

What I hate the most is the whole “equal opportunity offender” identity is treated like a badge of honor than a mark of shame. It’s the kind of all-or-nothing mentality you see in privileged white cis-hetero men where apparently any degree of complexity is treated as either hypocritical or “inconsistent.” As if all issues concerning racism and sexism could easily be fixed with this one-size-fits-all solution that ignores inconvenient truths about just how much the system is stacked in the favor of white males, to the detriment of everyone else.

It’s why, whenever the issue of domestic abuse comes up, you see these MRAs and their allies argue that women abusing men is the same as women abusing men – that we have to consider everything equitable in those two instances. But, of course, they aren’t. Men being in a relationship with an abusive woman, which is still terrible, is nowhere near as prevalent as how many women are in relationships with abusive men.

It’s not ignoring one for the sake of the other at all but, because these people can’t accept complexity, anything other than false equivalence is seen as dismissive.

Re: Anime

I’m rather picky as far as anime these days go. I still consider films like Princess Mononoke and Perfect Blue to be two of the best films, live-action or otherwise, I’ve seen thought. Those two, however, are examples where there are well-realized female characters as well as being anti-sexism. One of the best things about Perfect Blue (other than accurately predicting the internet would just become a giant harassment machine to be used against public female figures) is how much it mocks popular culture for its overuse of rape in storytelling and, worst of all, sometimes making it out as titillating.

So much anime these days seem to negatively portray female characters as nags or buzz-kills or castrating she-beasts – alternatively, when portrayed “positively”, it is because they are motherly or virginal. I have a hard time coming across a lot of female characters in anime who are both sexually active and not portrayed as broken or a whore incapable of forgiveness.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@Nick

Holy crap, another person who’s heard of Perfect Blue? One of my all-time favourite movies, that. You have good taste. *fistbump*

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

Oh geez eva is always one of the shows I think of a worst towards women.

It certainly doesn’t help that, as the GIF above shows, they regularly sexualize underage teen girls. It’s definitely worse in the reimagined films – given a new character (also the one in the GIF) seems to be there specifically because of her big, floppy breasts and little else. She’s barely even characterized past making a comment about how form-fitting her suit is…for her breasts.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs:

*Fist-bumps back*

I’m a big fan of Satoshi Kon and he’s a big creative influence of mine – I’d even go as far to say he’s my favorite filmmaker, live-action or otherwise.

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

@skiriki

Yeah the rebuilds kinda seem to be going for the fanservice angle at times. At times it feels like an attempt to cash in on some of the EVA brand (though i do like the rebuilds)

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMAwErYRpQ

This video by Folding Ideas has a pretty interesting interpretation about End of EVA being sort of a takedown of entitlement among fans and how Otaku view women. In a follow up video he even touches on the idea of Shinji being a “Nice Guy”

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

As a big breasted woman, I just hate how female characters with large breasts are portrayed. That is, big boobs are their entire personality. A woman can’t be taken seriously as someone intelligent nor can she even be a love interest. A sex object, sure. But not a girlfriend or wife. It’s so gross. My breasts are just a body part. They don’t have the power to drain brain cells or have anything to do with my ability to be a good employee, student, partner or friend.

Not that I’ve seen this anime people are talking about, just kind of generally ranting about the subject.

skiriki
5 years ago

@justlikeheaven — yeah, I’ve read the Fan Entitlement theory of End of Evangelion, and considering how some of the texts that buzz across the screen in one segment are hatemail they got, it is pretty telling. And that was when the internet was still in its public infancy… so those were mostly hand-written letters. Ditto for Otaku-see-women-as-fanservice-wank-material (LITERALLY here, srsly) and Shinji being a “Nice Guy”. All of it… makes sense. Terrifying amounts of sense.

Sometimes I think that Serial Experiments Lain also makes terrifying amounts of sense. And then I just hit my head until the feeling goes away.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@skiriki

And you’ve heard of The Matrix On Drugs Lain? Bloody hell. You get a fistbump too.

(Everybody is discussing misogyny in anime and I’m just sitting here fangirling over Perfect Blue and Lain.)

skiriki
5 years ago

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs — Fistbump accepted. 😀

However, if there’s something that makes even less than zero amount of sense (basically, seeing it drains your mind), it is bronies being anti-feminist. Like wot. (Once again, there’s this awkward feeling of I-don’t-want-to-share-fandom-with-you-assholes.)

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

@skiriki

Yeah the whole Brony vs. Feminism thing was weird. To the best of my knowledge it all stemmed from this whole debacle with a blog lovingly titled “Princess Molestia”.

Im fine with Bronies but I find people taking a thing aimed for kids and making pornography and such out of it disgusting.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

The brony stuff is just bizarre. Going back to avatars, like I said before, I’m never surprised to see a sexist (or violent, or racist, or ableist, or homophobic, or transphobic, or full-on VOTE TRUMP HEIL HITLER) post with a pony avatar… But I’m always confused as hell. Have they ever watched the fucking show? How is it possible to miss the point that hard without imploding into a pulsar of sheer weapons-grade wut?