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creep-shaming creepy harassment men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny racism sexual harassment

“Are you a virgin flesh?” And a thousand other creepy messages from creepy creepers

Hello girls indeed.
Hello girls indeed.

Mia Matsumiya, an L.A. musician, is also a human female on the internet, and in the latter capacity has been getting — and saving — creepy messages from creepy dudes for a decade, more than a thousand in total.

Now she’s posting them on Instagram, supplemented by some of the especially creepy ones her friends have gotten as well. Along with a wide assortment of extremely weird sexual come-ons, she’s gotten racist abuse, death threats, and, she told DAZED magazine, “pages and pages of fantasy stories about coming to my concerts and then raping me in the bathroom” from a lovely fellow who “ended up getting arrested for stalking another Asian woman.”

Here are a few of the more charming ones I found on her Instagram, though for the full effect you should probably just go there. (CONTENT WARNING: Graphic and horrifying language, rape threats, you name it.)

perv1

As Matsumiya notes, she’s “never seen a well-intentioned question that contains the phrase ‘virgin flesh.'”

But hey, it gets worse!

perv5

Wat.

perv2

Some people spend Sunday morning eating a late breakfast and doing the New York Times crossword. Pradeep here sends bitter, hostile messages to women he doesn’t know.

Brace yourself for this next one.

perv3

Are there really a lot of child RAPPERS in Japan?

You may feel the need to take a shower after this next one.

perv4

PRO TIP to all the men of the world: Never refer to yourself as “Papsy.” Ever.

This next one is perhaps the weirdest backhanded compliment ever conceived.

perv6

And speaking of weird, here’s one that some creeper sent a redheaded friend of hers.

perv7

Uh, dude, has this, er, approach ever worked in the history of ever?

H/T — DAZED, via The Cut

 

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occasional reader
occasional reader
5 years ago

Hello.

Ersatz Haderach | October 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm

Apparently it is permissible to praise Yukio Mishima in white supremacist circles

Well, i do not know for white supremacists, but ultra-nationalists of many countries often pat their foreigner counterparts in the back.
For example, in this old article, it is said that various european far-right movement leaders pay a visit to japanese far-right movement leaders in Japan. They understand themselves, among sharks.

Hmm, too bad that instagram and tumblr are forbidden at my job place, i can not see the pictures and the comments on the linked sites. But indeed, as far as i can see with the examples provided by the article, that is terrifying. And when you think that there still are men who think that women are craving for “attention”… Who can humanly want this kind of “attention”, come on ?

Have a nice day.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

My real name (that is, the name that EJ is an abbreviation for) is an archaic name in a non-English language. As such, I am incredibly sensitive to people nicknaming me using English-language nicknaming conventions because it comes out sounding weird. If you use Afrikaans-language nicknaming conventions then that’s fine, but that’s quite a niche thing to ask.

This is why I try not to nickname people, because sauce for goose and sauce for gander are indistinguishable.

dhag85
5 years ago

@EJ

I’ve been thinking it’s “Elton John” :p

Catalpa
5 years ago

Well I’ll be damned if I let some old creeper at work get away with flirting with me without giving a snotty retort to cut him down.

Great. Good for you, I’m genuinely glad that works for you. I’m not saying that you should stop doing that, especially not when it works for you.

What I am saying is that YOUR particular method isn’t a viable option for everyone. Your experiences aren’t the same as everyone else’s. It’s not a one-size-fits all solution; if it was, we would have solved harassment a long time ago. And acting like it’s the responsibility of the people being harassed to stop the harassment is INCREDIBLY unhelpful.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

And acting like it’s the responsibility of the people being harassed to stop the harassment is INCREDIBLY unhelpful.

Especially when there’s very real danger involved. VOoT mentions doing this in a workplace, but I work in a male-dominant field and being direct in this manner could at the very least get me pegged as a troublemaker trying to play the gender card.

Ersatz Haderach
Ersatz Haderach
5 years ago

I must getting a little too old to be Papsied, as when I was on OKC a few years ago, all I got most of the time were Trans-Phillipinas. Although they were friendly and non-agressive, it is time consuming to message them all back and politely state that you are not interested.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

“Why are you single?”

Ew. That reminds me of responses to ads I’ve posted on Craigslist where someone asks, “why are you selling it?”

More women = things and dating = sales

Yup.

The obvious answer to “Why are you single?” is “Because I’m not married, duh!” Shockingly, not all single women are leftovers! And if you find one who is lovely in every way, don’t ask her why she’s single — count yourself lucky you met her, even if she ultimately decides you’re not for her!

(This is obviously addressed to stupid guys like “Beastingwhatsisface”, who DID throw in a generic come-on, even though he claimed to be trying so hard not to. Try harder, tryhard.)

As for why people are selling things on Craigslist — well, why not? It’s a cheap way to unload something that you’d rather not have to pack up when you move. What more does anyone need to know?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

In commercial transactions, as opposed to relationships of course, it’s always a good idea to as why someone is selling.

Whilst there’s no obligation on sellers to volunteer information about faults etc they cannot mislead a purchaser if asked.

So if a someone is getting rid of a car because they know the cambelt is about to go and you ask them why they’re selling they can either refuse to answer (which might set off Alarm bells), tell the truth (which again might influence your decision, or at least the price) or lie

If they choose the latter and you can then show they knew about the fault you have certain legal recourses.

Alpine, RN
Alpine, RN
5 years ago

@Catalpa “Also, It ain’t my fucking job to figure out how to say “no” to the guy in a way that massages his ego just right and makes him go “oh so she really does mean NO”. Guys will whine about how a girl (always a girl) wasn’t upfront about saying no. Guys will whine about girls who are too blunt in saying no. (Asshole) guys will whine about anything that isn’t a goddamn ‘yes’, because yes is what they want to hear.”

^^^THIS SO MUCH THIS!!!!!

Alpine, RN
Alpine, RN
5 years ago

I used to get a LOT of those comments, Catalpa, before I met Dr. Alpine. “Well I’m sure he’s just awkward socially…why dont you go out with him if he wants to? It’s just a date!”

…because i’m not attracted to him, and feel no need to use myself to reward men for basic decency or a veneer thereof?

Dr. Alpine asked me out by praising my knot tying skills at a training session for rescue…and asked if I’d like to come rock climbing…obviously he’s a keeper :-p

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Re: “why are you single?”
Whenever someone’s asked me this its always been an older man (you can see where this is going) who is trying to flirt with me (told you). Ick. So I hold bad connotations with that phrase. I don’t mind being asked “why have you ALWAYS been single?” because it usually comes with a surprised look when I say I’ve never had a boyfriend, or even a fling, and I guess it helps me feel that there isn’t something wrong with me that’s putting men off.

Oh God I sound like an incel. Least I’m not planning to mass murder a bunch of guys out of my own bitter entitlement. Incels are the fucking worst.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
5 years ago

See, that’s something I wish I could get through to more guys:

Do NOT go out to meet women! Do NOT just ask a woman out on a date!

Go DO SHIT. Things you enjoy! Things that are fun and interesting! If you meet a woman there talk to her! If you meet a woman elsewhere ask if she wants to come along!

In other words, be an interesting person who does things, and there will eventually be a woman you find attractive who wants to do those things with you.

Like, seriously, guys need it to be this big complicated thing, with all these rules and guidelines, because otherwise they might have to face the reality that the only reason they can’t get a date is because they’re boring.

Scribbles
Scribbles
5 years ago

You’re not an incel because you haven’t decided to join a club predicated on hating the gender to which you’re attracted. Instead, you’re self-aware, which is basically the first step in getting what you want. Regardless, there’s nothing wrong with not dating or having a fling or whatever. I’m saying this as a gigantic slut: There’s nothing wrong with not having sex.

Shit, if you want to date or whatever it can be hard for a lot of people, especially if you have a lot of barriers like a shitty location or whatever. There’s nothing wrong with you, no matter what the old creepers say.

Scribbles
Scribbles
5 years ago

Alpine: Truth. I’m a guy and I’ve experienced this with other guys to a point where self defense (e.g. running the fuck away) was necessary. I’ve also experienced at least two women acting AFRAID when they’ve told me they weren’t feeling it after a couple of dates, as if it was some grave insult to a man to just not be into him. Both were dumbfounded when I said it was ok, whatever. Like it’s ok to reject someone. You don’t even need to qualify it. You shouldn’t expect a fucking tantrum.

ftge

Orion
5 years ago

Sunnysombrera,

I think an even better version of that question, which I have been known to use, is “why do you want to stop being single?” / “why don’t you want to be single now?” Like, understanding what someone is looking for and how they see their life shaping up is valuable. Their history, less so.

dhag85
5 years ago

Fuuuuucking hell. Earlier today, a school in Trollhättan, Sweden (40 minutes from where I live), was attacked by a 21 year old man carrying some kind of sword. He killed a teacher and an 11 year old boy, and injured a few more kids and I think one more adult. He was shot by the police and later died in the hospital. Not sure if this has been mentioned or noticed by anyone here yet.

Now I’m reading the updates to the story. Turns out the guy seems to have been an online Nazi sympathizer, and the school he targeted was overwhelmingly attended by immigrants and children of color. SIGH

dhag85
5 years ago

@Binjabreel

Do NOT go out to meet women! Do NOT just ask a woman out on a date!

Go DO SHIT. Things you enjoy! Things that are fun and interesting! If you meet a woman there talk to her! If you meet a woman elsewhere ask if she wants to come along!

In other words, be an interesting person who does things, and there will eventually be a woman you find attractive who wants to do those things with you.

Like, seriously, guys need it to be this big complicated thing, with all these rules and guidelines, because otherwise they might have to face the reality that the only reason they can’t get a date is because they’re boring.

^^YES

100% of the truth

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@dhag85:

I’ve been following the story. I didn’t know you were Swedish; my fellow-feeling goes out to you and all your fellow Swedes. Thank goodness the death toll was only in the melee-weapon level.

I’m sorry to hear that the attacker died; not just because I abhor all violent death, but also because it prevents him from standing trial.

I would be really interested in hearing what the Swedish domestic response is to this. Could you please keep us posted?

dhag85
5 years ago

@EJ

I will do my best. I know the King has made a public statement and the Prime Minister visited the city/school in the afternoon. I’ll check for more updates in the morning, I suppose. Terrible situation. :/

contrapangloss
5 years ago

dhag, that’s awful.

I don’t have words for how awful.

I’m so sorry.

Mij
Mij
5 years ago

But women have no interests!
/s

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

Alpine: Truth. I’m a guy and I’ve experienced this with other guys to a point where self defense (e.g. running the fuck away) was necessary. I’ve also experienced at least two women acting AFRAID when they’ve told me they weren’t feeling it after a couple of dates, as if it was some grave insult to a man to just not be into him. Both were dumbfounded when I said it was ok, whatever. Like it’s ok to reject someone. You don’t even need to qualify it. You shouldn’t expect a fucking tantrum.

Two of my very closest friends started out as dates who didn’t work out. We were honest very early on about how romantic sparks weren’t flying, decided we liked each other enough to keep in touch, and it’s been great ever since. I didn’t even see it as a “rejection” – I think (in both cases) we both knew that we felt the same way before we said anything.

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
5 years ago

@dhag85

That’s awful! I saw the headlines but haven’t yet read the news. I didn’t know you lived so close. ;__; I hope everyone dear to you is fine? This is just… why do people – how can anyone just kill indiscriminately?

I’m dreadfully sorry that this sounds so callous, but I would like to see how the media handles this and compare it to the simultaneous coverage in my country. Are there any relatively objective Swedish newspapers you would recommend? Or any local papers (as opposed to national) in the area? Language is not an issue.

dhag85
5 years ago

@Verily Baroque

I don’t have any family or friends in Trollhättan, so I’m not personally affected.

As for news sources, I won’t claim our papers are unbiased, but they’re not like Fox News. Any of the nationwide papers I’m sure will have basically factually correct coverage. For example:

aftonbladet.se
dn.se
expressen.se
svd.se

Local Gothenburg paper: gp.se
Local Trollhättan paper: ttela.se

Swedish news in English: thelocal.se

Full name and picture of the “suspect” are already out there.

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
5 years ago

@dhag85

I’m glad to hear everyone close to you is safe.

A warm thank you for the links. While you are right that very few (if any) newspapers are truly unbiased, it’s challenging to get a realistic perspective of the credibility of various newspapers from over here, so I really appreciate your help.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

Editing post-tome: I’m not sure why I wrote all that, but I did. tl;dr: I advocate for people dating to be as upfront as possible.
Adding: Online dating seems like it distills the some of the worst effects of relative anonymity & separation from the addressed into a gawd-awful experience.

In commercial transactions, as opposed to relationships of course, it’s always a good idea to as why someone is selling.

Whilst there’s no obligation on sellers to volunteer information about faults etc they cannot mislead a purchaser if asked.

This reminds me of my and my husband’s first date-date (as opposed to out first not-date when I asked him to go watch “the new Star Trek” with me – I thought it was a date and he thought, “I’m making a friend at my new job!”).

After going to something that is a lovely little pub every day but Friday (at which point it became a very loud, standing room meat market – we stood around awkwardly for a few minutes before I yelled directly into his ear, “DO YOU WANT TO STAY HERE?”
“NO!”), we ended up at a diner. From about 830 until they kicked us out at closing (1?), we sat around sharing appetizers, drinking local beer, and telling one another about everything about ourselves that we could think of that might be a deal-breaker.

“I’m a horrible shut-in. I mean, I’ll go out, but it’s kind of exhausting and I’d really rather hang back and read or watch movies and browse Pitchfork for too long.”
“Me, too! But part of it’s that I’m cheap. If I had a coupon for this place right now, I’d use it. Most of the stuff that you do while staying in is significantly less expensive than going out, even if you’re staying in with friends.”
“I’m pretty much a woman. I’m not Transgender, but if you’re a person who would like to say that every person has a lot of the ‘other gender’ in them, my inner woman is very strong – but she’s also a lesbian who loves vaginas.”*
“That OK. I’m pretty much a 14-year-old boy. I love videogames**, though I don’t get much of a chance to play them now, and I could happily live off of pepperoni pizza. I’m also a mess. It’s not that I’m a hoarder or anything, I just get distracted very easily. I need to make a real effort to clean***.”

About 3 hours of that.
It was such a lovely start.

*I apologize if that offends anyone. It’s just what he said. He meant it more to mean that he has significantly more stereotypically feminine traits than many of his exes may have enjoyed in a boyfriend.

**I was a single mother to two who was working 40 hours / week + taking 2-3 courses a semester with a 40 minute commute each way, so I really did have no time. This fact was probably a significant factor in our no-BS approach to dating.

***He may have thought, “Oh, she’s too hard on herself! Her place looks fine!”
And it did.
Because it was a single-wide trailer, er, “modular home” with a Master Bedroom only marginally big enough for a bed; a den / walk in closet that was filled up by bunk beds and a dresser; a living room with a couch, a coffee table that pinch hit has floor-level dining table, a TV/PS3 (pretty much the only two large non-kid things that I didn’t stuff into a storage unit for my ex when he pursued a divorce), and precious little else that was only occupied for 2 or so waking hours each day.
Small space living does have the advantage of also being a small space to maintain.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

And thank you to whoever posted the link to the archived Reddit convo (on my phone, changing pages sucks).

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@Virtually out of Touch re: Honey: I lived in southern Alabama for a bit.
It took awhile to acclimate to literally everyone more than a few years older than me calling me, “Honey.”
I eventually came to recognize myriad flavors of the word, from the older woman’s compulsive friendly-honey to the probably-slightly-patronizing-but-well-intentioned-and-not-likely-to-change-older-man-honey to the creepster-honey.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@dhag – I’m so sorry to hear about this.
I’d heard nothing about it. Thanks for the links.

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/a-girl-knocked-off-her-bike-by-basketball#.udwLob83j

Anybody read about this. The Internets reaction and support of what this kid did is disgusting.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

kupo | October 22, 2015 at 9:08 am

“And acting like it’s the responsibility of the people being harassed to stop the harassment is INCREDIBLY unhelpful.”

– Its my personal responsibility to let a man know I’m not interested in him if I’m not.

” I work in a male-dominant field and being direct in this manner could at the very least get me pegged as a troublemaker trying to play the gender card.”

– How have you handled unwanted flirtations at your work place? Or if that hasn’t happened, how *would* you, hypothetically?

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@autosoma – There’s a lot to comment on in your series of posts, but I’ll just congratulate you on your self-reflection and thoughtfulness in the face of your background.

Really.

That takes quiet a bit.

@Scribbles – I’ve heard stories from younger but and gay friends – some older gay guys (not bi that I’ve heard, but that’s probably not something that’s going to be parsed in the moment) acting entitled to young men’s attentions and sex.

Hell, back in the late 90s/early 2000s even my husband – very slim and then slim and muscled in his late teens / early 20s, and, probably importantly, living in Orlando – was propositioned while just walking by more than one random old guy who’d get belligerent when rejected.

Plenty of young / age comparable guys, too, apparebtly came on to him, but that was at parties or while hanging out and wasn’t creepy. He’d hug them and say something like, “I’m flattered, but I’m straight.” And, suhprise-suhprise, they were all cool with it.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

Very sad news from Sweden. And the shitting Daily Fail put ‘right wing’, as if there is any doubt that loving Hitler makes you anything else. Mind you, the Daily Fail was pro Nazi in the 30s so they might have a different take on it.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

Scribbles, ” Like it’s ok to reject someone. You don’t even need to qualify it. You shouldn’t expect a fucking tantrum.”

This is my point EXACTLY.

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

“Very sad news from Sweden. And the shitting Daily Fail put ‘right wing’, as if there is any doubt that loving Hitler makes you anything else.”

He’s considered “far left” by some because of his socialism. And ironically enough, Malcolm X is considered “far left” too, though he is far right (anti-government, pro-black sovreignty in all areas economic, social, etc).

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

The man who owns the corner market just up the street from my house works there from the time he goes to unpadlock the security fencing and doors until mid-afternoon. At first it was touching my hand a little longer than needed when giving me my change, then stroking my forearm and saying something about admiring the fact that I’ve got blindingly pale skin. When he decided to want hugs is when I decided that driving a little farther was worth it. If I do go by that market at all it’s at night because I know that’s when a female relative of the owner and a guy who may be married to her are working.

@Orion

Gah! Well, here’s to hoping that we manage to prevent further papsy-and-others from spreading….it’s not enough for us to simply age out of their age group of interest, especially given that people are living longer so one might feasibly be dealing with papsy approaches well into ages 50+.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Fuuuuucking hell. Earlier today, a school in Trollhättan, Sweden (40 minutes from where I live), was attacked by a 21 year old man carrying some kind of sword. He killed a teacher and an 11 year old boy, and injured a few more kids and I think one more adult. He was shot by the police and later died in the hospital. Not sure if this has been mentioned or noticed by anyone here yet.

Now I’m reading the updates to the story. Turns out the guy seems to have been an online Nazi sympathizer, and the school he targeted was overwhelmingly attended by immigrants and children of color. SIGH

Shit, that is awful. I saw that briefly on Facebook, and clicked on the link, only to have my iPad kack out on me. (Which it often does when I click on script-heavy news sites.)

And I’m unhappy he’s dead too, mainly because he’s now going to be a martyr for all the other Nazis out there instead of standing criminal trial. Last thing the world needs is another fucking Horst Wessel. This one should have gone to jail like Breivik, and been denied every opportunity to pontificate or strike a “heroic” pose.

bvh
bvh
5 years ago

Great. Good for you, I’m genuinely glad that works for you. I’m not saying that you should stop doing that, especially not when it works for you.

What I am saying is that YOUR particular method isn’t a viable option for everyone. Your experiences aren’t the same as everyone else’s. It’s not a one-size-fits all solution; if it was, we would have solved harassment a long time ago. And acting like it’s the responsibility of the people being harassed to stop the harassment is INCREDIBLY unhelpful.

While I agree with the sentiment of your last sentence, for the record, it is often my experience ANY anecdote about effective confrontation skills, including self-defence, is over-interrupted by certain feminist communities as implying the targets of harassment/assault are responsible for all solutions.

This could be the nature of the online medium(difficulty in interpreting tone from text) and (understandably) passionate feelings. But the effect is to drive away the very people who can increase the skill set and knowledge base of agency in women as a group.

Learning/sharing techniques and skills to shut down abusers can be done concurrently with supporting/endorsing social and institutional changes to reduce/eliminate sexism/harassment and assault. And visaversa. Treating it like “either/or” is the reason most older feminist groups were not a good fit for me, to put it tactfully.

No, I will not wait around for social changes to be personally safe. I will learn every fucking skill to take care of business NOW, while, AT THE SAME TIME, supporting social and institutional changes.

And at no point am I judging/putting down/dismissing anyone else’s experience. It is always an abuser’s responsibility to not abuse in the first place.

And this is really a lot of fucking words to explain what to me is a rather simple and obvious concept.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Also, Hitler was no socialist. They may have inserted that word there to lure in the working-class goons, but make no mistake, what he did had no socialism about it. He was as much a capitalist as any ‘winger. Hell, his gas chambers and crematoria were built by private industries on contract!

bvh
bvh
5 years ago

Anyone trying to insist Hitler was a Socialist is very confused or has an agenda. The socialism in the Nazi party began and ended in the name. Look up crypto fascist propaganda.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Bina

You probably know better than anyone that Drexler inserted the ‘socialist’ in there and espoused anti capitalist ideology to attract the German working class away from the more Marxist orientated regular socialism into his national socialist Volksgemeinschaft movement.

Of course, by the time Hitler took over the Nasdap had abandoned nearly all it’s socialist trappings and was highly pro business.

loquora
5 years ago

@dhag

I’m glad you and yours are safe. What a terrible thing to do.

@justlikeheaven

Wow, that is shitty. The people defending that shithead kid… ugh.

Some days it seems like there is just nothing but awful things happening in the world. Here’s something that restores a little bit of goodness to those who need it:
http://mic.com/articles/127171/read-this-mom-s-perfect-open-letter-to-the-teen-skater-who-helped-her-young-daughter

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Justlikeheaven,
I really love all the men mansplaining to the women that the boy wasn’t catcalling or being offensive. Maybe, to a man “hey ladies!” seems innocuous, but when you’re a young woman and you can’t go out in public without guys shouting at you, it doesn’t seem quite so harmless.

I wish men would just shut the fuck up about street harassment unless it’s to offer support because they clearly have no idea what they’re talking about. Besides, I think the fact that this guy assaulted that girl should erase any benefit of the doubt that he was not being predatory.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@bvh

You can’t really blame us for being twitchy about that sort of thing, though. Even stuff that should be completely neutral, like learning self-defense or being aware of bad areas, gets twisted into “Oh, you clearly didn’t learn enough/weren’t aware enough” if you’re attacked or “Schrödinger’s rapist! #NotAllMen! Misandry!” if you’re not. Or, occasionally, both simultaneously.

Get angry at rape culture for twisting it to fit their agenda. Don’t get angry at us for reacting to it. In-fighting won’t help anyone.

@dhag

Oh God, not again… Just, fuck. I’m glad you’re alright. =/

@National “Socialism”

Fascist and communist groups are good naming themselves after the complete opposite. Any group named “Liberty” is totalitarian, any group named “Patriot” is full of anti-[home country] terrorists, the American Family Association wants to destroy as many families as possible, One Million Moms consists entirely of a dozen dudes, the Democratic People’s Republic Of Korea is, well, it’s North Korea, enough said… Etc.

History Nerd
5 years ago

There was a faction in the NSDAP that supported a type of Hegelian synthesis of left wing ideology and socialism with racism and German nationalism. But Hitler purged their leaders during the Night of the Long Knives. They’re a bit like the MRA’s who support a few left wing and progressive causes (like The Amazing Atheist).

There were “free market” libertarian types in the US in the 1920’s who admired Benito Mussolini. There’s always been an ideological affinity because both right-libertarians and fascists believe in natural hierarchy and reject movements for social equality and have anti-democratic tendencies in their thinking.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

@VOOT I’ve had this happen twice. The first time, the guy said, “I love you” just right out (he’s socially awkward), and I replied with, “okay” and dropped it. Then he saw me with my boyfriend a couple of days later at PAX and started crying, so I hugged him and let him cry on my shoulder and gave some empathetic platitudes. He was a friend, and he stayed a friend for a while, but he never stopped giving me googly eyes so I stopped eating lunch with him.

The second asked me to come along to some social gatherings, I wasn’t interested, and I had no idea he was flirting until he contacted me on OK Cupid. I actually would have been interested if he wasn’t a coworker, but I’d been dumped a couple of times that year and that was really hard on me because it wasn’t long after I was widowed, so I didn’t feel like I could handle seeing an ex every day at work, and I explained as much to him.

If it were to happen right now I would probably point out that I’m happily married and enjoy being monogamous. I would not call them out on it being inappropriate nor would I be blunt about any lack of attraction.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

*Good at naming. Coffee, stat.

Catalpa
5 years ago

@VOoT

Its my personal responsibility to let a man know I’m not interested in him if I’m not.

Okay, sure. Personally, I’d phrase it more like it’s the dude’s responsibility to find out if you’re interested or not, instead of just assuming “hey look there’s an unattended woman-object free for the taking over there!”, but hey, communication is good.

That said, I rather think there’s more than one way to make your lack of interest known. Saying “No I’m not interested” is a very rare thing in our culture, when it comes to, say, people inviting you to their church service. Even if you really hate going to church, you tend to say something like “oh, thank you for the offer, but I can’t make it” or something, because it’s polite. In most other situations, people will get the hint that you’re not fucking interested within one to three deflection like this. Except, somehow, when it comes to a dude and his pantsfeelings. Funny how that is.

Or, for example, cutting off contact with the person. Generally avoiding ever contacting someone again is a pretty clear “No I would not like to fuck you” message, I think. It’s not my problem if some dude thinks that complete radio silence means “oh I’m madly in love with you please keep messaging me.”

Also, do you really think that the people getting harassing messages online could make it stop by going “I’m not interested”? Because I have a SWATH of examples of that not working.

@bvh

t is often my experience ANY anecdote about effective confrontation skills, including self-defence, is over-interrupted by certain feminist communities as implying the targets of harassment/assault are responsible for all solutions.

Sure, but VOoT started into this little “just say no!” spiel in response to my anecdote about a business acquaintance being gross and creepy, and she garnished that advice with “oh he probably just didn’t know any better you should talk with him more and hold his hand and teach him how to pick up western women.”

I kind of don’t think this is totally neutral self help advice.

Catalpa
5 years ago

Yikes, that’s scary news about Sweden. I’m sorry that happened, that’s awful. 🙁

Virtually Out of Touch
Virtually Out of Touch
5 years ago

msexceptiontotherule @ October 22, 2015 at 2:44 pm

“The man who owns the corner market just up the street from my house works there from the time he goes to unpadlock the security fencing and doors until mid-afternoon. At first it was touching my hand a little longer than needed when giving me my change, then stroking my forearm and saying something about admiring the fact that I’ve got blindingly pale skin.”

– This shit was par for the course when I travelled throughout the Middle East and South Asia.

bvh @ October 22, 2015 at 2:55 pm

– Yes a million times to everything you wrote.