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Renegade ex-AVFMer posts 4600-word exposé of Paul Elam … on Paul Elam’s own site

The graphic Vinczer used for his post on AVFM
The graphic Vinczer used for his post on AVFM

The already plenty messy MRA divorce between A Voice for Men’s cult leader Paul Elam and his former “Activity Director” Attila Vinczer has just gotten a lot messier.

Taking advantage of his old editor’s account on AVFM, Vinczer today posted a 4600-word screed on Elam’s own site intended to expose the “innards of Paul Elam and AVFM.” In it, Vinczer declares that

I have observed this organization, AVFM, led by CEO Paul Elam, dong things that are in my opinion immoral, unethical and outright criminal. … They are harming people and harming men and boys they claim to be helping. The reckless behaviour of Paul Elam, the founder, and now CEO of AVFM LLB is akin to a cult leader, with followers who may be oblivious to what they are being drawn into. 

Elam quickly removed the post from his site, declaring all of Vinczer’s “various allegations” to be false, but the internet does not so easily forget; archived copies of the original post are still available here and here,

Vinczer’s document contains a lot more invective than it does evidence, but he promises evidence will be forthcoming. “This is just the tip of the iceberg,” Vinczer declares, “there will be full disclosure to follow.” He says he will offer “hard evidence about the improprieties found within the innards of AVFM” to any journalist who asks.

I’m going to leave that to journalists who have a bevy of lawyers at their disposal, but what Vinczer has posted so far is … intriguing.

Let’s get the invective out of the way first.

To say that Vinczer is angry at his former boss is a bit of an understatement. Over the course of the long screed, Vinczer describes Elam, variously, as

  • an “unabashed maniac”
  • “unhinged and wreckless [sic]”
  • “an alcoholic trigger happy imbecile”
  • “a bully”
  • “a cowering coward”
  • “A yellow belly poison lipped scoundrel”
  • “an utter disappointment”
  • “a disgraced perjured individual willing to do anything in a rage of bitterness fuelled by pure anger for revenge”
  • “a black hole that drains the life out of people who are anywhere near you”

I have no personal knowledge of Elam’s drinking habits or his mental health, but the rest of that sounds about right to me.

Vinczer’s accusations against Elam are numerous, if a little light on detail. His basic charge is that Elam is

[a] thief, [a] cheat, [a] con artist, who engages in smoke and mirrors refusing to be transparent with handling the massive amount of money donated to AVFM. … [a] seemingly ill minded deviant who it appears may be guilty of embezzling corporate/donated funds … .

Specifically, he claims that Elam may have used AVFM money to “secretly vacation …  in Italy with his partner while having others believe he was impecunious.”

He also accuses Elam et al of wasting money they could have been using for activism to subsidize a men’s “retreat” during which, among other things, a drunken Elam led his comrades in a lively, er, discussion of the allegedly smelly vagina of an influential feminist journalist — then put a video of these drunken shenanigans up on Youtube.

AVFM, Vinczer declares,

is incapable of putting on a yearly conference, [despite] the vast amount of money it has received in donations. Instead they pay for flying David Miller aka David King in from the UK so a group of men can get drunk and do stupid things at a retreat putting the MRM into disrepute.

Vinczer demands that Elam fess up about where the money raised by AVFM goes:

I challenge the CEO of AVFM to give full disclosure of … how he spent 10s of thousands of dollars if, not 100s of thousands of dollars donated to AVFM for advocacy work. Without being transparent, we can only guess what the amounts are that you have spent. I know he took a salary from those donations, which is perfectly warranted. Question is how much money did he use for himself and how much was actually used for advocacy work, if any.

Vinczer also posts what he says is a transcript of a Skype conversation amongst AVFM’s top brass in which Elam gleefully announces his plans to put up videos from Vinczer’s financially disastrous Toronto DV conference this past summer without Vinczer’s permission, and with all evidence of Vinczer’s presence left on the cutting room floor.

In the alleged transcript, Elam allegedly says

I am uploading Tanveer Ahmens talk right now, with AVFM branding and Attila cut out of the video. … I am billing this as an AVFM production … and cutting any mention of Toronto DV Symposium.

Given that the alleged transcript is utterly free of the weird malapropisms that clutter up Vinczer’s own prose, I’m thinking there’s a pretty good chance it’s real. It’s worth reading, if only for the mustache-twirling villainy on display. [EDIT: Vinczer has now Tweeted a bunch of screenshots of the alleged conversation, which make me even more convinced that the transcript is real..]

Even if we assume that the transcript is real, the evidence presented so far doesn’t quite live up to Vinczer’s invective. Does he really have more evidence to provide?

Elam, for his part, says no, writing that

Vinczer has nothing to give the media other than his words, which are about as good as his promise to pay people he has conned. The man who is quick to tell everyone of his sleuth-like constant recording and record keeping of everything in his life will produce nothing of the sort.

On Twitter, Elam added an accusation of his own:

https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/652540990608158720

https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/652543874615787520

I guess we’ll just have to see where this all goes, huh?

EDIT: Added Elam’s tweets, changed the last line.

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Orion
9 years ago

comment image

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

Bazia | October 10, 2015 at 12:45 pm
I thought it was some new kind of jellyfish from the abyss.

Robjec | October 10, 2015 at 2:42 pm
If it makes you feel any better, I thought it was a fish :p

http://i.imgur.com/Cvwq4SY.gif

Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Is that an octopus? I’d say cuttlefish, but the eyes look octopus, not the rather unique cuttlefish W.

Josh Miller
Josh Miller
9 years ago

Like Dodo Hunter noted, both A Voice For Men and Return of Kings are headed downhill and Paul Elam and Roosh V the doucheB are on their ways out–Dean Esmay having already been shown the door and booted out on his ass, his spare-key to the manosphere kingdom revoked, so to speak.

So I wonder, what will the inter-webs look like when these sites go off-line? They’re the two big ones, right? I mean, Reddit’s always there, but…

I’m sure someone smart enough to realize the kind of quick cash he can make from gullible, embittered men in “donations” will pick up the ball, unfortunately. It’s rare for any kind of ideology to just die out completely, especially one that caters so exclusively to white cis-male hatred, ignorance and misogyny. So what’s next?

The crazy thing is, if those in the MRM who are actually serious about activism and helping men’s rights–suicides, shelters and circumcision, etc.–would branch off and create a new group, they might be respected online and off. There are many issues pertaining to exclusively to men that need addressed. But the MRA brand is just too tarnished to ever be anything more than a bad joke now.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
9 years ago

Speaking of circumcision, Paul Elam’s next plan is to encourage the harassment of doctors and rabbis who perform circumcisions by identifying them on a website in the style of register-her.com. Activism!

bvh
bvh
9 years ago
Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Auntie Alias

As mohels actually advertise and there are loads of websites listing them already that’s about as productive as “outing” dentists.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
9 years ago

@bloodmoon

Interesting that most of the comments on this thread take issue with the grammar rather then the subject at hand. Elam is a fraud, using funds or personal gain, an overarching inefficient leader who uses those around him. Who fears the shadow?

Well, the news about Elam… isn’t news. So the grammar is all that’s left of interest, for a certain value of “interest.”

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
9 years ago

@Alan

Haha! It’s such a dumb idea. Oh, and they were yammering away about foreskins being used to make facial cream again (a dig at the feeeeemales).

Bina
9 years ago

Yeah, Paulie, tell us again how you’re not antisemitic as fuck. Pretty sure the most controversial ingredient in MY moisturizer is petrolatum.

Also, whatever wee cephalopod that is, it’s cute as a bug!

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

@Alan:
Spoken like a dentist sympathiser! Comrade, you’re not in league with them, are you?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Not at all. I recently took my lion to a dentist and was horrified by the result.

Zeb Berryman
Zeb Berryman
9 years ago

Auntie Alias: Well of course. Foreskins are a super important natural resource. That’s why after every circumcision there’s an auction were all the major companies bid on the foreskin. If my parents had just remembered to do this, we’d be rich, rich I tell you!

catmara
9 years ago

“Innards of Paul Elam exposed”. I am imagining the autopsy report:

Brain; overdeveloped reptilian hind-brain, vestigial cerebral cortex
Heart: small, shriveled, anomalous black coloration observed, appears to pump odorous, tar-like substance in lieu of normal blood…
Spleen: distended
Colon: Morbidly enlarged, with numerous inclusions of impacted excrement observed
Testes: …

ignorantianescia
ignorantianescia
9 years ago

I am appalled but not surprised by AVFM’s insensitivity to Jewish people by putting traceable information of rabbis, doctors and mohels online for men who’re hostile to circumcision. Then the myths about “foreskins are used in X” really rub me the wrong way, it’s eerily close to some derivations of blood libel if you ask me. Also, in some places circumcision is usually done for medical reasons. Thanks AVFM for interfering with medical professionals’ work.

@EJ (The Other One)
Thanks, I had heard of deaths in construction, but those are good points about gender and power over life and death. I’m still curious whether there are more proximal, maybe ideological motivations, though. According to Trafficking in Persons Report: June 2009, this kind of systemic abuse in domestic settings (domestic servitude) is a problem that exists also as far away as Turkey – and has even been exported to Europe by foreign diplomats (135, 251). Also mentioned is a fear that domestic servants might run away when they’re given rights (9).

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

@ignorantianescia:

Thanks for the reference to the report, I’ll take a look.

I’m intrigued by the fear of runaways. My gut instinct to that is to point out that slavers, throughout history, have always had the fear of runaways; but that may be oversimplifying.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

Use of infant foreskins is a thing:

http://www.dermnetnz.org/procedures/bioengineered-skin.html

Has nothing to do with Jewish rituals, as the foreskins in question come from hospitals, and the cosmetics thing is ridiculous, but it’s not wrong to think that this is a little skeevy.

Bina
9 years ago

I am appalled but not surprised by AVFM’s insensitivity to Jewish people by putting traceable information of rabbis, doctors and mohels online for men who’re hostile to circumcision. Then the myths about “foreskins are used in X” really rub me the wrong way, it’s eerily close to some derivations of blood libel if you ask me. Also, in some places circumcision is usually done for medical reasons. Thanks AVFM for interfering with medical professionals’ work.

Bingo. A blood libel is exactly what it is, and I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that Paulie had one of those “Jews are eeeeevil” fundie upbringings, if he’s from Texas. Fundies still believe, in some places, that Jews use Christian babies’ blood in matzos. Never mind that this contravenes the foremost rule in Jewish dietary law, namely that you’re not supposed to eat the blood of any creature, because the blood is the life of it.

I’d be surprised to learn that foreskins had any cosmetic use at all beyond skin grafts for burn victims, and that use is hardly what I’d call cosmetic; having skin in place of burnt flesh is kind of important. I know there was a fad in the ’70s for using extracts from human placentas in ladies’ face creams, but by the time I was old enough to buy lotion on a regular basis, it was all long over and forgotten.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

One of my friends has been vegan since she was 10 yet ate the placenta after she gave birth. I thought that was a pretty hardcore reintroduction to a carnivorous diet.

(She’s still vegan though so wasn’t tempted)

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

When one considers that the placenta is one of the baby’s organs, eating placenta becomes exceedingly grotesque.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Well, it’s not iike the baby is using it any more, and after 9 months of free loading I suppose it can count as rent.

Argenti Aertheri
9 years ago

Ehh, I’d count it as her organ, which makes eating it not dissimilar to biting your nails in terms of veganism (not in terms of the yuck factor, that one is a personal opinion I’d say!)

Either way it was never a living thing, and nothing died in the process of producing it, nor was enslaved // captive // whatever, so idk? It’d certainly be vegetarian since all involved creatures remain quite alive, but I can’t say I really get what vegans consider to be animal products (honey is a no but fruit is fine despite needing those same damned bees to pollinate it’s?)

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
9 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

There is that thing about a fetus/baby meeting the technical definition of a parasitic life form…feeds off the host without killing it, etc. Babies certainly make themselves at home in there, without any concern for the bladder they’re lounging on or what time it is when they feel like doing the rhumba. When they finally come out squawking you can count on years of piss/poo/vomit cleanup, at least a few really public meltdowns that make a parent want to walk away and say “that is not my kid” or curl up on the floor and cry even if it’s in the grocery store, and you’re lucky if they manage to express gratitude after 18+ years or so.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Probably be less hassle to keep the placenta and eat the baby.

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
9 years ago

Shhhhhh….don’t let those conservatives catch you saying things like that or you’ll have Westboro protesters on your lawn in the morning!