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literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misogyny MRA PUA racism reactionary bullshit red pill YouTube

Here’s my segment from The Majority Report yesterday

I talked to The Majority Report’s Matt Binder about Men’s Rightsers, PUAs, MGTOWs, and the rest, as well as about some of the attempts of white supremacists to recruit in the manosphere (and vice versa). Enjoy!

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Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
5 years ago
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Argenti

Your tortoise is a dork.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
5 years ago

He really is! The best part? That hut like thing is cardboard, the kind things like frozen dinners come in, he can, and has, walked under a side and moved it. But nooooo, acting like he can swim in air is so much more FUN!! >.<

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Argenti, Darwin is absolutely adorable. You have good taste in animals.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Yeah, I do feel sorry for the poor kitty. Though, it does look like its owner was being gentle with it, and the bath looked like it had to be done.

It’s not always nice to make your pet feel uncomfortable, but sometimes you gotta. : P

Though, I’ve known cats who absolutely loved baths, and would jump into the shower with their owners, and annoy the crap out of them if they didn’t get in the shower.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Policy of Madness | October 11, 2015 at 7:41 pm
@ Argenti

I dunno, I’m still puzzling over “Just goes to show, that it’s always better to jaw-jaw, than to war-war, hmm?” There are so many condescending asshole layers to this statement, but mainly I’m wondering if “jaw-jaw” and “war-war” are racist against Native Americans or not.

I did mention this near the tail-end of my takedown (when Obsidian was trying to defend Milo by claiming that David couldn’t “go in” on a gay man), but he did make references to a “Social Justice Warrior Reservation”, which I pointed out was pretty racist towards Native Americans.

Milo, […] proves that if you stray just one millimeter off of the social justice warrior reservation, you are then thrown under the bus.

So much for “I’m proof that the manosphere isn’t racist!”, huh?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@Alan

Well… Even though Churchill did a lot of good during WWII, he was also obscenely racist even by ’30s/’40s standards. Including against Native Americans (he denied that the genocide against them was wrong, for example). Frankly, him borrowing “War-war” and “Jaw-jaw” from Churchill just lends more weight to them being racist, not less.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

The irony now is that the “Jaw-jaw” quote has been very much appropriated by the left.

The Corbyn wing of the Labour party are using it to justify his platform sharing with Hamas and the like and his argument against not intervening with ISIS.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Still not convinced there is zero racism there. It aligns far too closely to that racist caricature I mentioned for me to believe that’s coincidental.

Churchill’s intentions also say nothing about Trolly’s intentions, and given that our troll rephrased the quote to inject extra condescension? I place no faith there.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Obsidian’s links seem to have been confiscated by the Moderation Monster. Pity.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Also, Obsidian’s video is about him “silencing” Laughing Witch. Where is this much-vaunted jaw-jawing?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Kat

I noticed that, too. He’s literally saying that he wants to silence her.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

@Kat: indeed, it is because I included upwards of 40 of them by yours truth (articles and podcasts) that directly some to the issues PI and I were discussing. Maybe I can post them up one at a time.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

@POM,
No, I didn’t say that. I said that I silenced Laughing Witch, not that I wanted to. I actually wanted to engage her in debate since she seems so vociferous about the Manosphere in general. She demurred saying that I should take it up with Mr. Futrelle. So here I am. 🙂

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

@Kat: LW didn’t want to engage, I guess her heart want in it…

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

A’s for my posting quote to PI: I find it humorous that so many white women here would clutch their pearls in righteous indignation over it, since I don’t think it was racist at all and didn’t mean it in that context. My point in writing Churchill was to say that it’s possible for people who disagree to have reasoned, civil conversation. And I mean that for my fellow travelers on the manospherian did of the aisle too. Many of you may not know this but I’ve disagreed with a number of manospherians in the past and present, along the lines that PI herself has mentioned.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

@Brooked:

“While I lack your fortitude and tapped out Obsidian’s ramblings early on, I did notice that comment and I share your curiosity about these supposed “very powerful questions”. I’d love to examine them, and when I say examine I really mean point and laugh at them.”

“We cannot mistake absolutism for principle, or substitute spectacle for politics, or treat name-calling as reasoned debate.”
-President Barack Obama

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Because I want to respond to Paradoxical Intention’s response to me, I’m going to post the following in smaller comments. I had originally intended to post them in one long response, but I think it got caught in moderation due to the sheer number of links – upwards of 40(!) – that I included. I’ll try to pare them down a bit. Here’s the first part:

7:21 PM 10/11/2015 Sun

Hello Parodoxical Intention,
Replies below:

“Petitioning again to get David to put this somewhere on the site:

“The purpose of this space is not for discussing feminism or its merits.

You are not entitled to a debate, niceness, or education from anyone here.

You have been warned.”

Ooooh, I’m quaking in me boots…

“But, you know what? I’m bored as shit. So, let’s do this. *cracks knuckles*”

Ah, finally! We shall dance? *Does Birdman handrub*

“Though, I will say out the gate that I’m not going to quote every single article of what you say, good sir, because quite frankly, you’re verbose as fuck and need to learn the definition of the word brevity.”

Oh, I insist. I’ll help with you with your thoroughness problem, because I’m in a particularly generous mood today. 🙂

““They’re not racist, I, one of their token black men, say so!”

What about all the other black people who say they are, in fact, racist? What about the PoC that bring up specific examples of them being racist? What about this very site citing specific examples of various manosphere blogs being racists towards all kinds of PoC? What about all the other non-black PoC who say they’re racist?

Do they all just stop existing? Does your opinion somehow nullify theirs?”

Yes, it does. I have spent the past six years deeply involved in the Manosphere – first as a commenter, then as a blogger and writer, then as a co-founder of a mens’ issues website, then as an editor of one of the largest mens’s issues websites on the planet, then as a mens’ issues podcaster on YouTube (launched on Jun 2, 2015). I know many of the people Mr. Futrelle likes to talk about personally, have had the chance to speak with them at length (like my two-part interview with RooshV and which ran at AVFM earlier this year attests to) and can tell anyone willing to listen that while I don’t deny for a minute that there is a number of racist folk within the Manosphere, they are no moreso than any other sector of modern society. Again, I cite as a case in point, the #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen social media campaign a few summers back, and the more recent “Shut the Fuck Up!” social media campaign on HuffPo, both targeting white feminists for their very long history of exclusion and racism toward Black feminists. This is well documented with a track record that makes anything coming out of the Manosphere look tame by comparison.

Moreover, you good sir, have failed to offer any links of all the many people of color who claim that the Manosphere is so manifestly racist. If this were the case, how is one to explain my existence, let alone that of other Black men? AVFM has had Black men prominently featured on its front pages for quite sometime now. Are you saying that all of us are “tokens”? And if so, how then do you explain that which Black feminists have been bemoaning since the days of Sojourner Truth? Your response?

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

“I see no links sir.

Though, judging from what I’ve read from you so far, you’re not exactly batting 1000 here when it comes to “refuting” David.”

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Re: MGTOW:

The MGTOW Mystique
http://www.justfourguys.com/the-mgtow-mystique%E2%80%8F/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Attack Of The Sexbots

#ObsidianRadio

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Vice Article On MGTOW Is A Win For The Manosphere

#ObsidianRadio

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Re: Pickup Artists, Etc:

The False Dichotomy Between “Outer” & “Inner” Game
http://www.justfourguys.com/the-false-dichotomy-between-outer-inner-game%e2%80%8f/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Are The Sexes Evenly Matched In Terms Of “Dating Power”?
http://www.justfourguys.com/are-the-sexes-evenly-matched-in-terms-of-dating-power/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Behold The Almighty Power Of Preselection
http://www.justfourguys.com/the-almighty-power-of-preselection/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Re: “Big Questions” Involving Feminism (And It’s Excesses):

“Handbags 4 Peace” Meets “The Defenders Of Maidan”: Compare & Contrast
http://www.justfourguys.com/hanbags-4-peace-meets-the-defenders-of-maidan-compare-contrast/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

I only date tall men. You’re a pig if you don’t like fat women. #FeministLogic
http://judgybitch.com/2015/06/04/i-only-date-tall-men-youre-a-pig-if-you-dont-like-fat-women-feministlogic/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

#BringBackOurGirls: How Boko Haram Puts The American Sistahood’s First World Problems Into Proper Perspective
http://www.justfourguys.com/bringbackourgirls-how-boko-haram-puts-the-american-sistahoods-first-world-problems-into-proper-perspective/

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Christ almighty.

Dude, you do know that when you spam the shit out of me, I don’t actually read your spam, right? You’re not entitled to my time and attention. You have to earn it. You don’t earn it by treating me, as a reader, like shit, which is what you do when you post this way.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Re: Mens’ Rights Issues/Activism:

Why I became a Black Men’s Rights Activist
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/why-i-became-a-black-mens-rights-activist/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

James Robertson proves that “Black Male Privilege” is bunk and Black political leadership is a failure
http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/james-robertson-proves-that-black-male-privilege-is-bunk-and-black-political-leadership-is-a-failure/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Note To Christelyn Karazin: If “Crummy Mummy” Don’t Apply, Let It Fly
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/families/note-to-christelyn-karazin-if-crummy-mummy-dont-apply-let-it-fly/

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago
Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

By no means is the list above meant to be definitive or comprehensive, but does go to make the point that a much richer conversation can be had on these issues than merely contributing to the noise that is Mr. Futrelle’s stock and trade. Ahem.

Further links available upon request.

“Well, good luck with that, because had you paid a little more attention, you’d know that Mr. Binder’s off to do other things.”

Yes, you’re correct, he did mention that at the beginning of the interview – or rather I should say, Mr. Futrelle mentioned it.

“I don’t recall David saying that (Mammotheers, please correct me if I’m wrong), but the thing about Roosh is that his views are heavily rooted in racism. Every other article Roosh writes is about how “evil brown people” are out to destroy Western civilization, even though many of his sexist views are drawn from more extremist Eastern religions, and he even claimed that he’s Islamic (but it was only a really shitty “gotcha” in order to make a very sorry dodge of criticism leveled at him by Canadian feminists).”

Perhaps, but the point is made – feminists, particularly those of the Canadian variety, have quite a bit to answer for in terms of their own extremism. Here in the States less than 20% of women self-identify as feminists. The brand has been taking a beating of late. And that’s just for starters.

As for what Mr. Futrelle and/or his audience have or haven’t said, my question is important because it informs the very existence of the Manosphere itself. While Mr. Futrelle and his audience would like to have everyone believe that the denizens of the Manosphere are just dejected losers, he and his audience refuse to consider the possibility that feminism, like all things in life, has brought with it its share of downsides and tradeoffs, to say nothing of excesses. He and they refuse to consider the idea that women, being human, may be prone to gaming the system so to speak (false rape accusations, anyone? Brian Banks, anyone?).

As for Roosh himself, as I said, I conducted what has been known to be, to date, the biggest interview on/with him:

Bang: The Definitive Interview With RooshV

Part One: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/game/bang-the-definitive-interview-with-rooshv-part-one/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Part Two: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/game/bang-the-definitive-interview-with-rooshv-part-two/

I’m brown skinned, and Roosh didn’t refer to me as “evil”, nor that I was somehow a blight upon Western Civ. And as you can see in the interview itself, we discussed racial matters quite a bit.

“It’s one thing to go “I’ve only been attracted to white women” and quite another to say “I only fuck white women because other women are gross.”

Has Roosh himself ever said this? I’ve been reading him for quite some time now (including his books) and do not recall ever reading such words from him.

“That’s racist. And considering that Roosh has proclaimed himself “Leader of the Fat Shaming Movement”, he’s also a douchebag in that arena as well.”

Please see my heightism (against men by women when it comes to dating) article(s) above. I could say the same thing of so many women, based on what they say per online dating, etc. The website Support For The Short has done an excellent job of curating the many out and out bigoted things women have said against men of shorter stature that, if it were said about fat women, people would be calling for their heads on a pike. I’ve conducted an interview with the founder of that website, which can be found here:

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Interview With Joe Of “Support For The Short”: Introduction

So, from my vantage point and by all available evidence, Roosh may indeed be a douchebag, but he’s far from alone; quite a few ladies are douches, too.

“Granted, feminism isn’t perfect. Nothing in this world truly is, and let’s face it, it’s run by completely fallible people. Feminism has had issues in the past with racism, transphobia, sex worker discrimination, fatphobia, ect.”

And by all accounts, it still has not addressed it’s very real racism issues. This is per what Black feminists, in our time right now, have said by their own pens and keyboards – not by me.

“But, that isn’t to say that there aren’t feminists who are working on that, or that we don’t recognize that it’s a problem, because it is. In fact, that’s where we get SWERFs (Sex-Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminists), TERFs (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists), and White Feminists (A feminist who only seems to care about cishet, white, middle-class women’s issues, not necessarily a feminist who is white) from.”

Yes, I’m familiar with all of those terms/acronyms. Still, the point is made: Black feminists feel A LOT more alienated by their (White) “sisters”, than I ever have felt alienated by my (White) “brothers” in the Manosphere. Seems to me that if anyone needs to work on their privilege and racism, it’s the White feminists – not the Manosphere. That, is my personal experience.

“Now, does that mean we should give up feminism altogether? Fuck no. It’s a process, and we’re constantly learning and growing.”

Nor has anyone, certainly not I, is asking for such a thing. Only for balance, honesty, fairness and justice.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

“As for the downsides, does being harassed by the manosphere count? Because it does happen. And being treated like a bra-burning, man-hating, raving madwoman because I spout such radical notions as “Hey, maybe we shouldn’t blame rape victims for their rapes!”

Sure, so long as we’re willing to lay equal blame on feminists, who harass Manospherians – Roosh is a case in point. He was actually physically assaulted during his recent trip up in Canada. Think of how that would have played had the roles been reversed. I’ve discussed the routine hypocrisy of feminists here:

The inability to seek consent
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/the-inability-to-seek-consent/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

And here:

“Consent For Me, But Not For Thee” and other Black feminist hypocrisies
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/consent-for-me-but-not-for-thee-and-other-black-feminist-hypocrisies/

“As for the trade-offs, I’d like to think that having the ability to get a college education, getting the right to vote, own property, and get into relationships and marry on my own terms are pretty damn nice.”

I don’t disagree; but, as I pointed out in my articles “Wine & Roses” “Why I Became A Black MRA” and so forth, there are indeed very real downsides and tradeoffs that have come with the very real and needed advances for women – and the fact that I have to prompt people, like you, to even admit it, again, speaks to the how and why of the Manosphere’s very existence in the first place.

“Oh, and feminists are also working to end Rape Culture, fatphobia, sex stigma, ect, so we’ve still got a full plate and lots of work to do.”

I’m sure. Perhaps they could squeeze in a few of the issues I’ve addressed in the links above (read: my article on Tess Holliday, and the very skewed attractiveness standards so many women have themselves as per the media, etc.)? After all, feminists do care about men, right?

“Then why the fuck is the Manosphere more concerned with harassing women and feminists and asking for the right to beat, rape, and make women kowtow to them and their Almighty Boners instead of, oh, I don’t know, focusing on men’s issues like toxic masculinity, or companies making money off the back of men’s insecurities about their masculinity?”

Please see my fairly extensive list of links as per your request above? I think I do a fairly decent job addressing a wide array of issues important to men in our time.

“Not once, in my years of being a feminist, have I seen a MRA (or any other member of the manosphere, for that matter) stand up for men, unless it was to bludgeon a feminist with bullshit, or derail a conversation said feminist was having about women’s issues, in a sorry attempt to silence them.”

Again, please see list of links above. My name is Mumia Obsidian Ali, and I’m a (Black, working class) mens’ rights guy. Glad to meet you! 🙂

“Last I checked, while feminism does help men, it’s not really our purpose to focus on men’s problems.”

Then stop saying that you’re concerned about men, because this is the common refrain feminists trot out when me and mine step to them. I for one am completely, totally cool with feminists only being concerned with what is good and in the best interests of women, so long as they don’t whine and moan when me and mine do the same for the fellas. Fair enough?

“The Manosphere is no real “examination” of feminism. If anything, it’s a group of men dedicated to harassing women under the guise of “critique”.”

Again, please see my list of links above. I think, taken together as a collection or body or work, serves as a critique of many feminist issues in our time today.

“But, that’s okay, because we feminists are critical of ourselves, and call each other out for bullshit all the time.”

Evidently not, per the sayings, tweets and writings of Black feminists…

“It’s not a crime for a man to want to know how to attract someone he’s interested in. Nor is it a crime for him to go to someone for advice.”

Good! I’m glad we agree. See that? A feminist and a mens’ rights guy can actually agree on something. Now that’s progess!

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

“My problem with game (since I can’t, and wouldn’t, speak for every other feminist) is that it’s not really to attract women, it’s just to use them to get some sexual gratification through lies, deceit, and outright manipulation. It’s just a way to manipulate women into becoming another notch in a man’s bedpost.”

I see. If I may: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Roger_Currie

The above link is to a brotha named Alan Roger Currie, dating coach and author of, among other works, “Mode One: Let the Women Know What You’re REALLY Thinking” which is in fact, known as “direct game” (there are two types or “styles” of game, in the broadest possible terms – “indirect”, which Mystery’s school is known for; and “direct” which we’re discussing here). Currie also has a very popular internet radio talk show that I think you would like, called “Upfront & Straightforward with Alan Roger Currie” on the Blogtalk Radio internet radio network. He often points out that women, despite their decrying men being deceptive and manipulative, really don’t like men being, well, upfront and straightforward with their sexual desires, interests and intentions. I discuss the matter more in detail here:

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

Never Apologize For Being A Man

#ObsidianRadio

“There’s nothing wrong with casual sex mind you, but the way that people who spout “game” put it bothers me immensely because they talk about women not as people, but as complex sex vending machines, mindless animals, or, at best, “sluts and whores”.”

Understood; but I could say the exact same thing of so many women, who reduce men down to their height, earnings/potential, and credentials (to say nothing of looks). So again, while we don’t disagree that there are certainly boorish men out there, and that the pickup/seduction community certainly has its fair share of them, men in general or even pickup artists in particular are by no means unique along these lines. The only major difference, is that feminists seem intensely keen on calling the fellas out, while remaining curiously silent when it comes to the ladies. What is up with that? Especially since so many of them claim to care about men, too? Please explain?

“The thing is, the alternative has always been available, men just have been lead to believe (by other men who then offer to teach them “game” as an alternative, usually at the cost of a seminar or book! Look, men making money off of men’s insecurities because men have been taught by society that the only way they have worth is if they fuck as many women as possible!) that it isn’t available or doesn’t work because that one woman they hit on once didn’t return their affections and didn’t immediately drop and give him a blowjob.”

With all due respect, I cannot support your thesis, and I say this as a lifelong Black man. Moreover, I was able to procure game and pickup materials for a mere fraction of the cost that it would have set me back for a stack of conventional university studies textbooks (many such materials are available online for free, by the way; ask me how I know!).

Secondarily: I would like to know of this alternative you mention? The pickup industry has really put a spotlight on the fact that men have not had a service business to cater to their relationship and sexual mating needs, certainly nothing coming anywhere near close to what women have enjoyed for decades, if not longer.

“The alternative is: Treat women like they’re people you’d like to get in bed with, with their permission, instead of Sexy Time vending machines.

Boom. That easy.”

No. It is not. The “friend zone” is very real; women can and will say you’re being “too nice” (often for doing the very things so many of them claim to want, by the way); and other factors. Mating is a lot more complex and to be frank, unsettling, for far too many of us to openly admit, because it goes against many of the very societual conditioning that feminists often accuse for other problems.

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

For example, I specifically said in my original comments that you are quoting, that I wanted to attract and have sex with, the women I was actually sexually attracted to; game and pickup assists a man in this pursuit. I could have done this with willing women who were markedly less sexually attractive, which repulsed me. Just because someone likes you, or vice versa, does not mean that you will like them back, or vice versa. Nor do men have to accept any or all mating opportunities from women, particularly those he does not feel sexually attracted to. I discuss the matter more in detail here:

“But She’s So Nice!”
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/but-shes-so-nice/

Obsidian
Obsidian
5 years ago

And here:

The Long Night