It’s still not clear if the Umpqua Community College shooter, now identified as 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer, posted his plans on 4chan’s /r9k/ board the day before the shooting, or if the post, warning of an impeding shooting at a school in the northwest, was just a bizarre and highly improbable coincidence.
What is clear is that a lot of 4channers, particularly the “robots” of /r9k/, are offering the now-dead killer their sympathy and support. Indeed, in one thread on the board today, 4channers are blaming the shootings on women being sluts. Sluts, that is, who won’t sleep with them.
The thread starts with a post attacking “sexual liberalism” for allegedly leaving most men celibate while women have casual sex only with a small minority of the most attractive men.
Yep. As one critical anon put it, the OP’s “grand plan” seems to be “to force women in relationships with men they neither like nor are attracted to.”
Another anon thought the problem could be addressed, at least partially, on a voluntary basis:
Not all anons were quite so, er, optimistic:
Others, meanwhile, pinned their hopes on the inevitable arrival of sexbots:
Still others had even more radical “solutions.”
If at this point you feel your faith in humanity slipping away, you will be perhaps be slightly reassured by the fact that a good number of those posting in the thread thought the OP and those who agreed with him were a bunch of self-absorbed, self-pitying assholes.
One anon got this point across with admirable succinctness.
“Robot,” in this context, refers to the denizens of /r9k/, not the “companion robots” that others in the thread think will ultimately make women obsolete.
I wonder if Jack’s answer will be
A) Evo psych bs
B) A claim that our culture is gynocentric
C) Valerie Solanas
D) All of the above
Because there is a stigma around men’s mental health is not taken as seriously as female mental health. In general women are more communicative about difficulties and problems and are therefore more likely to get help for them.
Men are more likely to successfully commit suicide than women, and suicide is one of the leading causes of death for men under 35. I would argue this is in part due to the stigmatization of male behavior and the aggressive assault on young men by interest groups such as this one. Hobbies and entertainment enjoyed by men have to be diversified, men simply being themselves is problematic. However, it is also due to the fact that male mental health simply isn’t taken as seriously. If you look into cases like Chris Harper and Elliot Rodgers, it is clear they have been mentally unstable for a long time and have received no help for their issues.
True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex. In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships. Women still kill men for rejecting advances and such, they just don’t tend to bring take it out on others as well. Women have a much lower chance of being alone or unloved because there are a large number of single men out there for them who will do the chasing.
You’re looking at the symptom, not the problem. The killer blames women for rejecting him and pushing him to do what he did, but the fact is that he had nobody, female or male, who was there for him. He also was obsessed with the devil.
“‘He had a hatred of black people, women, everyone,’ the source said, adding: ‘The drive and manifesto are being analysed. There is a lot about his hatred of organised religion.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3261340/Oregon-college-shooter-angry-didn-t-girlfriend-ranted-crazy-hate-filled-manifesto.html#ixzz3o6rANbpu
He hated everyone. Not women in particular. Stop making this a “feminist” issue and let’s talk about the real problem here, media glorification of killers, assault on male identity, lack of mental health access in the US and gun access in the US.
This isn’t the profile of a rational misogynist, it’s the profile of a guy with serious mental health problems. And he viewed his way of getting out of his pit of loneliness as lashing out at others. Yes, it’s always men that do this. But it’s because they’re ignored by society as a whole when it comes to their issues while feminism forever shouts about how privileged they are and how unfair things are to women.
E) something that is actually a symptom of toxic masculinity repurposed to sound like it has fuck all to do with feminism. F’ex — it’s easier for women to access mental health services because women aren’t shamed for having “emotional troubles” the way men are.
Do I get a prize for being ninja’ed and right?
I spoke too soon, he rapidly went from sorta right to not even wrong. I’m gonna leave the debunking up to someone whose week hasn’t been one asshole from the past after another.
I knew Jack was going to bring up feminism sooner or later. Jack we are not responsible for mens’ actions (no one else is either) if you want to help men then great do something about it and really? We are privileged? And also F*** YOU A**hole stop throwing disabled people under the bus to excuse misognist and racist a-holes’ actions.
I agree with everything else to what everyone said here.
Women kill men for rejecting advances?
I’m intrigued. Not saying it’s never happened but any actual examples?
” if you want to help men then great do something about it”
Mens rights activism is repeatedly shouted out or shut down by feminists. But that’s irrelevant in this discussion.
How are you not seeing this. These people are disabled and you’re being incredibly ableist by implying they are simply misogynists or racist when they have serious mental disorders that need to be dealt with. Of course women have privilege. There are benefits to being male and there are benefits to being female.
“Jack we are not responsible for mens’ actions”
No man is an island entire of itself. Any actions we take as a society or culture affect other people. If school shooters were never glorified and if mental health was a strong priority in the US and easily accessible, would this have happened? Perhaps not.
Scapegoating mental illness- check
Redefining toxic masculinity as male behaviour- check
“All women can have sex at the drop of a hat”- check
“The devil made him do it”- check
nth repetition of the same tired talking points- check
Drezden, would you like to actually discuss things or simply dismiss my points without any form of rebuttal? Scapegoating mental illness is blaming misogyny when someone is simply mentally ill.
Felix, is that you?
Jack, Jackums, Jackerooni,
Plenty of people are non-neurotypical, even several on this site. The vast majority of us somehow manage to not go around killing people. Mental illness isn’t the problem. Being an asshole is.
Drezden, that comment just shows that you don’t take mental illness seriously yourself. Mental illness is more than anxiety/depression. The dude is clearly a psychopath. Psychopathy is a diagnosable mental illness but you don’t seem to recognise that. “Being an asshole” is one thing, believing in being a god by killing others, showing 0 empathy, having no understanding of other human beings, that’s Chris right there.
Quite the contrary, Jack links. As someone who is not neurotypical, I take mental health quite seriously. What I don’t take seriously is you. Enjoy screaming into the void; I’ve better things to do with my time than humouring you.
Once again, you’re attacking me ad hominem without addressing my points. Come back if you would like to debate this issue properly.
Oh, Jack. So predictable.
Why is this? Could it be because men are socialized to believe they have to be strong and “alpha” all the time? When we say toxic masculinity. This is what we’re talking about! It’s not feminism that caused this and it’s not feminists who wish to further it. So I’m not sure why you’re all pissy with us about it.
Yes, women are more likely to get help for mental illness. But not all women are getting treatment for their mental illnesses. I have bouts of depression and have a history of eating disorders. For various reasons I haven’t sought treatment and have dealt with it on my own. Yet, I’ve never felt the slightest urge to go on a murder spree.
While there is an issue with mental illness being stigmatized and being stigmatized for men in particular, you still haven’t demonstrated causation. Lots of people, the majority of people with mental illness aren’t murderous. There must be something else going on.
And women are more likely to attempt suicide. What is your point? What does this have to do with mass murder?
What behaviors are male? Why are these behaviors found predominantly in men? It seems like you’re arguing that men are naturally violent, therefore feminists are bad for trying to stop men from being violent. Which is it? Are men inherently violent? Or is violence caused by mental illness that isn’t being treated?
Okay. Now you’re arguing that it’s feminist’s fault men are violent because icky girls want to play video games and watch action movies? But I thought violence was just male behavior? Or they’re just crazy? You keep contradicting yourself.
Oh really? You think there are no women who are single and/or celibate and don’t want to be? It sounds like you’re doing the typical “Nice Guy” whiner thing. Apparently, the only women you notice are the conventionally attractive one.
What about the women who aren’t chased? Why aren’t they going on shooting sprees?
Citation needed on all of this. In the US, according to the FBI, 90% of homicides are committed by men. I suppose somewhere out there, there’s a few women who murdered a man for rejecting her. But it’s not really a thing.
What makes you think the number of single men is much larger than the population of single women? The male and female populations are roughly even. Although polyamory and polygamy exist, they’re pretty rare. So how did you arrive at this conclusion?
Just because he was racist and anti-religion, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist too. In fact, racism and misogyny frequently go hand in hand.
There’s no evidence that mental illness causes misogyny, racism or any other bigotry, although they exist in the same person. US gun culture is a big problem, one that feminists actually discuss a lot. But having access to guns doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist.
1) Would you like DSM-III, DSM-IV-TR, or the latest one? I’ve got the newest in PDF form even! Psychopathy isn’t in any of them. It’s not a mental illness as defined by the people who define mental illnesses.
2) Oh fuck you for assuming we think mental illness is just anxiety and depression. I have a medicine chest of psych drugs that would like a word with you. Actually, no, because at those doses, without slowly increasing to them, your skin might fall off. Get back to me on how not seriously we take mental illness when that’s a side effect you’re willing to risk.
3) Would someone with unipolar depression be up for smacking down the idea that depression isn’t a serious mental illness? Nobody ever listens to my bipolar ass since somehow the (hypo)mania means the depression is “different” or some shit. Or maybe manic depressives just aren’t ever taken seriously. Probably both.
WWTH — do you like cinnamon sugar cookies? Cuz I have some and that totally deserves a cookie.
Society glorifies toxic masculinity which is having guns, getting laid, violence and not seeking help/showing emotions except anger.
Men’s rights activists don’t realize that most of their problems lies in misogyny firing back at them.
Examples:
*dont show your feelings except anger and don’t seek help that is “girly”
*we don’t take men being abused/raped by women seriously because society teaches men and women that men are superior that they can take care of themselves and that they’re seen as stronger.
*etc
But instead they’re not helping men and boys or care about them at all they just hate women and girls and them having rights and they’re scared to suffer the consequences of their actions because a lot of them are abusers and rapists. Paul Elam even wanted to make October “bash a b*tch month” and told that he isn’t planning on building male shelters, etc. There are more like him.
And these terriorists are murdering people and being praised for it because they’re, including the ones who are praising them, are not getting what they want and they’re bigots if they wanted help then they should seek help and not continue to take lives so stop with the ableism just stop a lot of people here are mentally ill and the ones in the world and they never even thought of shooting people because we are not entitled and can seek help if we need to you’re excusing their actions and trying to sweep misogyny and racism under the rug if we keep calling them mentally ill it just advocates more people to go on shooting sprees because there are people who will excuse their actions and won’t suffer the consequences and more people will get hurt and murdered.
Unless I missed something, psychopath isn’t in the DSM V. I know it wasn’t in the DSM IV. You are perhaps referring to antisocial personality disorder? Personalities disorders are axis II diagnoses, not axis I as mental illnesses are. Personality disorders are called such because they are not considered treatable illnesses but unchangeable personality traits inherent to the person.
Not that this matters that much. You’re not qualified to internet diagnose anyone. That you try and internet diagnose people while simultaneously accusing us of not taking mental illness seriously is laughable.
Argenti,
Way to ninja me on the DSM thing! And yes I like cinnamon sugar and any other kind of cookies (except the kind with walnuts, but I can pick those out). Thanks!
I really don’t understand how Jack can possibly bring up male suicide rates and dismiss the seriousness of depression at the same time while also accusing us of not taking mental health issues seriously. That’s a special kind of cognitive dissonance there.
WWTH
It’s also laughable he told me:
“Congratulations, you threw some buzzwords at me and insulted me. Thank you for the discussion.”
I insulted him while he insults the mentally ill. Amazing…
I’m going to ignore the passive-aggressiveness and ad-hominem parts of your post and address your rational arguments.
“Why is this? Could it be because men are socialized to believe they have to be strong and “alpha” all the time? When we say toxic masculinity. This is what we’re talking about! It’s not feminism that caused this and it’s not feminists who wish to further it. So I’m not sure why you’re all pissy with us about it.”
To the contrary, this is an example directly contrasting ‘toxic masculinity’. Men aren’t given the same respect and focus in mental health issues because society is built around the protection of women. This isn’t to do with “manning up” or something like that, it’s to do with the focus being on women rather than men.
“Yes, women are more likely to get help for mental illness. But not all women are getting treatment for their mental illnesses. I have bouts of depression and have a history of eating disorders. For various reasons I haven’t sought treatment and have dealt with it on my own. Yet, I’ve never felt the slightest urge to go on a murder spree.
While there is an issue with mental illness being stigmatized and being stigmatized for men in particular, you still haven’t demonstrated causation. Lots of people, the majority of people with mental illness aren’t murderous. There must be something else going on.”
Once again you’re missing the point. This isn’t a mental illness like anxiety or depression, this is pyschopathy, a completely different kind of mental illness.
“And women are more likely to attempt suicide. What is your point? What does this have to do with mass murder?”
I was trying to point out that men’s mental health is in such a poor state that it’s the suicide is the leading cause of death for young men.
“What behaviors are male? Why are these behaviors found predominantly in men? It seems like you’re arguing that men are naturally violent, therefore feminists are bad for trying to stop men from being violent. Which is it? Are men inherently violent? Or is violence caused by mental illness that isn’t being treated?”
“Okay. Now you’re arguing that it’s feminist’s fault men are violent because icky girls want to play video games and watch action movies? But I thought violence was just male behavior? Or they’re just crazy? You keep contradicting yourself.”
(put into one group to address both concerns)
Perhaps I should have been more clear on that one. Before even starting here, you’re really projecting with this whole “icky girls” thing.
Moving on, I’m arguing that feminism is a large reason as to why male issues go unnoticed, because it has pushed the focus of issues to always be female-centric when problems are experienced by both sexes. I agree that yes, men are more violent, but you don’t address male violence by calling any behaviors that could be seen as remotely violent “toxic masculinity”. Men are biologically wired to fight and kill. So of course they’re much more likely to commit murder than women. You don’t fight biology by calling it misogyny.
“Oh really? You think there are no women who are single and/or celibate and don’t want to be? It sounds like you’re doing the typical “Nice Guy” whiner thing. Apparently, the only women you notice are the conventionally attractive one.”
Once again you’re projecting with this whole “nice guy” thing. Please be civil and debate rather than attacking me personally again and again. I’m arguing that women are much less likely to be put in a position where they are single or celibate since they are the selectors in reproductive behaviour. Again, because that’s just the way we’re hard-wired.
“What about the women who aren’t chased? Why aren’t they going on shooting sprees?”
Because the men are FAR more likely to suffer from psychopathy, and to boot are more prone to violent behaviour. And there is simply less of them.
“Citation needed on all of this. In the US, according to the FBI, 90% of homicides are committed by men. I suppose somewhere out there, there’s a few women who murdered a man for rejecting her. But it’s not really a thing.
What makes you think the number of single men is much larger than the population of single women? The male and female populations are roughly even. Although polyamory and polygamy exist, they’re pretty rare. So how did you arrive at this conclusion?”
Having looked into it more, I’m both right and wrong. On the one hand, under 35s have a much higher percentage of single men than women, whereas over 35 it flips to the other side, with single women being a much higher percentage. So I was wrong on that one.
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/02/where-in-the-us-are-there-more-single-men-than-women/385369/
(source if you are interested)
“Just because he was racist and anti-religion, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist too. In fact, racism and misogyny frequently go hand in hand.
There’s no evidence that mental illness causes misogyny, racism or any other bigotry, although they exist in the same person. US gun culture is a big problem, one that feminists actually discuss a lot. But having access to guns doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist.”
He hated everyone. So perhaps by definition that makes him a misogynist but he didn’t target women exclusively, he targeted everyone. There is incredibly evidence that PSYCHOPATHY causes a person to become violent and end up killing. I really want to reinforce this point because I don’t think you’re seeing it. He was a psychopath. He believed he was some kind of god of death, he wanted to be famous and he didn’t care who he killed. He was a psychopath. Which is a treatable mental illness.
I’m sure you will be overjoyed to know that I intend to go to bed as it’s 00:03 here in the UK and I need to sleep. I really don’t get why you think I insult mentally ill people or something. I’m sure you didn’t assume that I was neurotypical.
Goodnight, it’s a shame we couldn’t come to an agreement but at least we can probably agree that the state of mental health services is awful in the Western World and desperately needs to change.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. You seem to think that “toxic masculinity” means that all thing masculine are toxic. It doesn’t. In very, very, brief terms, it means that society pushes a standard of masculinity that is toxic to men.
WWTH — I think we’re in a ninja’ing cycle here! Enjoy the cookies, I have British comedy to catch up on (Would I Lie to You?, unless QI is back? Is QI back?)
WWTH & fruitloopsie — yep, the fractal wrongness is impressive.