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4chan a woman is always to blame antifeminism creepy empathy deficit entitled babies evil sexy ladies men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny playing the victim rape culture that 80%/20% bullshit that's completely wrong

4channers: Women being sluts caused the Umpqua Community College shootings

meganfoxboy600
The World According to /r9k/

It’s still not clear if the Umpqua Community College shooter, now identified as 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer, posted his plans on 4chan’s /r9k/ board the day before the shooting, or if the post, warning of an impeding shooting at a school in the northwest, was just a bizarre and highly improbable coincidence.

What is clear is that a lot of 4channers, particularly the “robots” of /r9k/, are offering the now-dead killer their sympathy and support. Indeed, in one thread on the board today, 4channers are blaming the shootings on women being sluts. Sluts, that is, who won’t sleep with them.

The thread starts with a post attacking “sexual liberalism” for allegedly leaving most men celibate while women have casual sex only with a small minority of the most attractive men.

Yep. As one critical anon put it, the OP’s “grand plan” seems to be “to force women in relationships with men they neither like nor are attracted to.”

Another anon thought the problem could be addressed, at least partially, on a voluntary basis:

imo spread on social media that October 1st should be pity fuck a nerd day to help raise awareness of violence and to help save lives

Not all anons were quite so, er, optimistic:

>while they just compromise Hahahahahahaha The only women who compromise are prostitutes. All other women have already decided what they will and won't do and what they already did with Chad and don't want to do again. And they're far more demanding because they know if you don't do what they want they can just get Chad to take care of it. Of course men will be angry, they have no similar recourse.

Others, meanwhile, pinned their hopes on the inevitable arrival of sexbots:

In a decade or so companion bots will be a thing and nobody will have to care about women again.

Still others had even more radical “solutions.”

Maybe if somoene did an outstanding massacre this issue could be discussed publically... Like, the guy kills a lot of people and then explain this issue to the world via live camera or something.

4chuna

The solution: Mandatory fucking sessions, b-daily and randomly paired. Society is finally fixed.

If at this point you feel your faith in humanity slipping away, you will be perhaps be slightly reassured by the fact that a good number of those posting in the thread thought the OP and those who agreed with him were a bunch of self-absorbed, self-pitying assholes.

One anon got this point across with admirable succinctness.

 >'MARRY ME OR I'LL KILL YOU ALL' Kek, Robots are such fucking entitled little shits.

“Robot,” in this context, refers to the denizens of /r9k/, not the “companion robots” that others in the thread think will ultimately make women obsolete.

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weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

I wonder if Jack’s answer will be

A) Evo psych bs
B) A claim that our culture is gynocentric
C) Valerie Solanas
D) All of the above

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

Because there is a stigma around men’s mental health is not taken as seriously as female mental health. In general women are more communicative about difficulties and problems and are therefore more likely to get help for them.

Men are more likely to successfully commit suicide than women, and suicide is one of the leading causes of death for men under 35. I would argue this is in part due to the stigmatization of male behavior and the aggressive assault on young men by interest groups such as this one. Hobbies and entertainment enjoyed by men have to be diversified, men simply being themselves is problematic. However, it is also due to the fact that male mental health simply isn’t taken as seriously. If you look into cases like Chris Harper and Elliot Rodgers, it is clear they have been mentally unstable for a long time and have received no help for their issues.

True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex. In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships. Women still kill men for rejecting advances and such, they just don’t tend to bring take it out on others as well. Women have a much lower chance of being alone or unloved because there are a large number of single men out there for them who will do the chasing.

You’re looking at the symptom, not the problem. The killer blames women for rejecting him and pushing him to do what he did, but the fact is that he had nobody, female or male, who was there for him. He also was obsessed with the devil.

“‘He had a hatred of black people, women, everyone,’ the source said, adding: ‘The drive and manifesto are being analysed. There is a lot about his hatred of organised religion.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3261340/Oregon-college-shooter-angry-didn-t-girlfriend-ranted-crazy-hate-filled-manifesto.html#ixzz3o6rANbpu

He hated everyone. Not women in particular. Stop making this a “feminist” issue and let’s talk about the real problem here, media glorification of killers, assault on male identity, lack of mental health access in the US and gun access in the US.

This isn’t the profile of a rational misogynist, it’s the profile of a guy with serious mental health problems. And he viewed his way of getting out of his pit of loneliness as lashing out at others. Yes, it’s always men that do this. But it’s because they’re ignored by society as a whole when it comes to their issues while feminism forever shouts about how privileged they are and how unfair things are to women.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

E) something that is actually a symptom of toxic masculinity repurposed to sound like it has fuck all to do with feminism. F’ex — it’s easier for women to access mental health services because women aren’t shamed for having “emotional troubles” the way men are.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Do I get a prize for being ninja’ed and right?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

I spoke too soon, he rapidly went from sorta right to not even wrong. I’m gonna leave the debunking up to someone whose week hasn’t been one asshole from the past after another.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

I knew Jack was going to bring up feminism sooner or later. Jack we are not responsible for mens’ actions (no one else is either) if you want to help men then great do something about it and really? We are privileged? And also F*** YOU A**hole stop throwing disabled people under the bus to excuse misognist and racist a-holes’ actions.

I agree with everything else to what everyone said here.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Women kill men for rejecting advances?

I’m intrigued. Not saying it’s never happened but any actual examples?

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

” if you want to help men then great do something about it”

Mens rights activism is repeatedly shouted out or shut down by feminists. But that’s irrelevant in this discussion.

How are you not seeing this. These people are disabled and you’re being incredibly ableist by implying they are simply misogynists or racist when they have serious mental disorders that need to be dealt with. Of course women have privilege. There are benefits to being male and there are benefits to being female.

“Jack we are not responsible for mens’ actions”

No man is an island entire of itself. Any actions we take as a society or culture affect other people. If school shooters were never glorified and if mental health was a strong priority in the US and easily accessible, would this have happened? Perhaps not.

Drezden
Drezden
4 years ago

Scapegoating mental illness- check
Redefining toxic masculinity as male behaviour- check
“All women can have sex at the drop of a hat”- check
“The devil made him do it”- check

nth repetition of the same tired talking points- check

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

Drezden, would you like to actually discuss things or simply dismiss my points without any form of rebuttal? Scapegoating mental illness is blaming misogyny when someone is simply mentally ill.

Drezden
Drezden
4 years ago

How are you not seeing this. These people are disabled and you’re being incredibly ableist by implying they are simply misogynists or racist when they have serious mental disorders that need to be dealt with.

Felix, is that you?

Drezden
Drezden
4 years ago

Jack, Jackums, Jackerooni,

Plenty of people are non-neurotypical, even several on this site. The vast majority of us somehow manage to not go around killing people. Mental illness isn’t the problem. Being an asshole is.

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

Drezden, that comment just shows that you don’t take mental illness seriously yourself. Mental illness is more than anxiety/depression. The dude is clearly a psychopath. Psychopathy is a diagnosable mental illness but you don’t seem to recognise that. “Being an asshole” is one thing, believing in being a god by killing others, showing 0 empathy, having no understanding of other human beings, that’s Chris right there.

Drezden
Drezden
4 years ago

Quite the contrary, Jack links. As someone who is not neurotypical, I take mental health quite seriously. What I don’t take seriously is you. Enjoy screaming into the void; I’ve better things to do with my time than humouring you.

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

Once again, you’re attacking me ad hominem without addressing my points. Come back if you would like to debate this issue properly.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Oh, Jack. So predictable.

Because there is a stigma around men’s mental health is not taken as seriously as female mental health.

Why is this? Could it be because men are socialized to believe they have to be strong and “alpha” all the time? When we say toxic masculinity. This is what we’re talking about! It’s not feminism that caused this and it’s not feminists who wish to further it. So I’m not sure why you’re all pissy with us about it.

In general women are more communicative about difficulties and problems and are therefore more likely to get help for them.

Yes, women are more likely to get help for mental illness. But not all women are getting treatment for their mental illnesses. I have bouts of depression and have a history of eating disorders. For various reasons I haven’t sought treatment and have dealt with it on my own. Yet, I’ve never felt the slightest urge to go on a murder spree.

While there is an issue with mental illness being stigmatized and being stigmatized for men in particular, you still haven’t demonstrated causation. Lots of people, the majority of people with mental illness aren’t murderous. There must be something else going on.

Men are more likely to successfully commit suicide than women, and suicide is one of the leading causes of death for men under 35.

And women are more likely to attempt suicide. What is your point? What does this have to do with mass murder?

I would argue this is in part due to the stigmatization of male behavior

What behaviors are male? Why are these behaviors found predominantly in men? It seems like you’re arguing that men are naturally violent, therefore feminists are bad for trying to stop men from being violent. Which is it? Are men inherently violent? Or is violence caused by mental illness that isn’t being treated?

and the aggressive assault on young men by interest groups such as this one. Hobbies and entertainment enjoyed by men have to be diversified, men simply being themselves is problematic.

Okay. Now you’re arguing that it’s feminist’s fault men are violent because icky girls want to play video games and watch action movies? But I thought violence was just male behavior? Or they’re just crazy? You keep contradicting yourself.

True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex.

Oh really? You think there are no women who are single and/or celibate and don’t want to be? It sounds like you’re doing the typical “Nice Guy” whiner thing. Apparently, the only women you notice are the conventionally attractive one.

In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships.

What about the women who aren’t chased? Why aren’t they going on shooting sprees?

Women still kill men for rejecting advances and such, they just don’t tend to bring take it out on others as well. Women have a much lower chance of being alone or unloved because there are a large number of single men out there for them who will do the chasing.

Citation needed on all of this. In the US, according to the FBI, 90% of homicides are committed by men. I suppose somewhere out there, there’s a few women who murdered a man for rejecting her. But it’s not really a thing.

What makes you think the number of single men is much larger than the population of single women? The male and female populations are roughly even. Although polyamory and polygamy exist, they’re pretty rare. So how did you arrive at this conclusion?

“‘He had a hatred of black people, women, everyone,’ the source said, adding: ‘The drive and manifesto are being analysed. There is a lot about his hatred of organised religion.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3261340/Oregon-college-shooter-angry-didn-t-girlfriend-ranted-crazy-hate-filled-manifesto.html#ixzz3o6rANbpu

He hated everyone. Not women in particular. Stop making this a “feminist” issue and let’s talk about the real problem here, media glorification of killers, assault on male identity, lack of mental health access in the US and gun access in the US.

Just because he was racist and anti-religion, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist too. In fact, racism and misogyny frequently go hand in hand.

There’s no evidence that mental illness causes misogyny, racism or any other bigotry, although they exist in the same person. US gun culture is a big problem, one that feminists actually discuss a lot. But having access to guns doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

1) Would you like DSM-III, DSM-IV-TR, or the latest one? I’ve got the newest in PDF form even! Psychopathy isn’t in any of them. It’s not a mental illness as defined by the people who define mental illnesses.

2) Oh fuck you for assuming we think mental illness is just anxiety and depression. I have a medicine chest of psych drugs that would like a word with you. Actually, no, because at those doses, without slowly increasing to them, your skin might fall off. Get back to me on how not seriously we take mental illness when that’s a side effect you’re willing to risk.

3) Would someone with unipolar depression be up for smacking down the idea that depression isn’t a serious mental illness? Nobody ever listens to my bipolar ass since somehow the (hypo)mania means the depression is “different” or some shit. Or maybe manic depressives just aren’t ever taken seriously. Probably both.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

WWTH — do you like cinnamon sugar cookies? Cuz I have some and that totally deserves a cookie.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

Society glorifies toxic masculinity which is having guns, getting laid, violence and not seeking help/showing emotions except anger.

Men’s rights activists don’t realize that most of their problems lies in misogyny firing back at them.
Examples:
*dont show your feelings except anger and don’t seek help that is “girly”
*we don’t take men being abused/raped by women seriously because society teaches men and women that men are superior that they can take care of themselves and that they’re seen as stronger.
*etc

But instead they’re not helping men and boys or care about them at all they just hate women and girls and them having rights and they’re scared to suffer the consequences of their actions because a lot of them are abusers and rapists. Paul Elam even wanted to make October “bash a b*tch month” and told that he isn’t planning on building male shelters, etc. There are more like him.

And these terriorists are murdering people and being praised for it because they’re, including the ones who are praising them, are not getting what they want and they’re bigots if they wanted help then they should seek help and not continue to take lives so stop with the ableism just stop a lot of people here are mentally ill and the ones in the world and they never even thought of shooting people because we are not entitled and can seek help if we need to you’re excusing their actions and trying to sweep misogyny and racism under the rug if we keep calling them mentally ill it just advocates more people to go on shooting sprees because there are people who will excuse their actions and won’t suffer the consequences and more people will get hurt and murdered.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Psychopathy is a diagnosable mental illness but you don’t seem to recognise that.

Unless I missed something, psychopath isn’t in the DSM V. I know it wasn’t in the DSM IV. You are perhaps referring to antisocial personality disorder? Personalities disorders are axis II diagnoses, not axis I as mental illnesses are. Personality disorders are called such because they are not considered treatable illnesses but unchangeable personality traits inherent to the person.

Not that this matters that much. You’re not qualified to internet diagnose anyone. That you try and internet diagnose people while simultaneously accusing us of not taking mental illness seriously is laughable.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Argenti,
Way to ninja me on the DSM thing! And yes I like cinnamon sugar and any other kind of cookies (except the kind with walnuts, but I can pick those out). Thanks!

Would someone with unipolar depression be up for smacking down the idea that depression isn’t a serious mental illness?

I really don’t understand how Jack can possibly bring up male suicide rates and dismiss the seriousness of depression at the same time while also accusing us of not taking mental health issues seriously. That’s a special kind of cognitive dissonance there.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

WWTH
It’s also laughable he told me:

“Congratulations, you threw some buzzwords at me and insulted me. Thank you for the discussion.”

I insulted him while he insults the mentally ill. Amazing…

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

I’m going to ignore the passive-aggressiveness and ad-hominem parts of your post and address your rational arguments.

“Why is this? Could it be because men are socialized to believe they have to be strong and “alpha” all the time? When we say toxic masculinity. This is what we’re talking about! It’s not feminism that caused this and it’s not feminists who wish to further it. So I’m not sure why you’re all pissy with us about it.”

To the contrary, this is an example directly contrasting ‘toxic masculinity’. Men aren’t given the same respect and focus in mental health issues because society is built around the protection of women. This isn’t to do with “manning up” or something like that, it’s to do with the focus being on women rather than men.

“Yes, women are more likely to get help for mental illness. But not all women are getting treatment for their mental illnesses. I have bouts of depression and have a history of eating disorders. For various reasons I haven’t sought treatment and have dealt with it on my own. Yet, I’ve never felt the slightest urge to go on a murder spree.

While there is an issue with mental illness being stigmatized and being stigmatized for men in particular, you still haven’t demonstrated causation. Lots of people, the majority of people with mental illness aren’t murderous. There must be something else going on.”

Once again you’re missing the point. This isn’t a mental illness like anxiety or depression, this is pyschopathy, a completely different kind of mental illness.

“And women are more likely to attempt suicide. What is your point? What does this have to do with mass murder?”

I was trying to point out that men’s mental health is in such a poor state that it’s the suicide is the leading cause of death for young men.

“What behaviors are male? Why are these behaviors found predominantly in men? It seems like you’re arguing that men are naturally violent, therefore feminists are bad for trying to stop men from being violent. Which is it? Are men inherently violent? Or is violence caused by mental illness that isn’t being treated?”

“Okay. Now you’re arguing that it’s feminist’s fault men are violent because icky girls want to play video games and watch action movies? But I thought violence was just male behavior? Or they’re just crazy? You keep contradicting yourself.”
(put into one group to address both concerns)

Perhaps I should have been more clear on that one. Before even starting here, you’re really projecting with this whole “icky girls” thing.

Moving on, I’m arguing that feminism is a large reason as to why male issues go unnoticed, because it has pushed the focus of issues to always be female-centric when problems are experienced by both sexes. I agree that yes, men are more violent, but you don’t address male violence by calling any behaviors that could be seen as remotely violent “toxic masculinity”. Men are biologically wired to fight and kill. So of course they’re much more likely to commit murder than women. You don’t fight biology by calling it misogyny.

“Oh really? You think there are no women who are single and/or celibate and don’t want to be? It sounds like you’re doing the typical “Nice Guy” whiner thing. Apparently, the only women you notice are the conventionally attractive one.”

Once again you’re projecting with this whole “nice guy” thing. Please be civil and debate rather than attacking me personally again and again. I’m arguing that women are much less likely to be put in a position where they are single or celibate since they are the selectors in reproductive behaviour. Again, because that’s just the way we’re hard-wired.

“What about the women who aren’t chased? Why aren’t they going on shooting sprees?”

Because the men are FAR more likely to suffer from psychopathy, and to boot are more prone to violent behaviour. And there is simply less of them.

“Citation needed on all of this. In the US, according to the FBI, 90% of homicides are committed by men. I suppose somewhere out there, there’s a few women who murdered a man for rejecting her. But it’s not really a thing.

What makes you think the number of single men is much larger than the population of single women? The male and female populations are roughly even. Although polyamory and polygamy exist, they’re pretty rare. So how did you arrive at this conclusion?”

Having looked into it more, I’m both right and wrong. On the one hand, under 35s have a much higher percentage of single men than women, whereas over 35 it flips to the other side, with single women being a much higher percentage. So I was wrong on that one.

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/02/where-in-the-us-are-there-more-single-men-than-women/385369/
(source if you are interested)

“Just because he was racist and anti-religion, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist too. In fact, racism and misogyny frequently go hand in hand.

There’s no evidence that mental illness causes misogyny, racism or any other bigotry, although they exist in the same person. US gun culture is a big problem, one that feminists actually discuss a lot. But having access to guns doesn’t mean he wasn’t a misogynist.”

He hated everyone. So perhaps by definition that makes him a misogynist but he didn’t target women exclusively, he targeted everyone. There is incredibly evidence that PSYCHOPATHY causes a person to become violent and end up killing. I really want to reinforce this point because I don’t think you’re seeing it. He was a psychopath. He believed he was some kind of god of death, he wanted to be famous and he didn’t care who he killed. He was a psychopath. Which is a treatable mental illness.

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

I’m sure you will be overjoyed to know that I intend to go to bed as it’s 00:03 here in the UK and I need to sleep. I really don’t get why you think I insult mentally ill people or something. I’m sure you didn’t assume that I was neurotypical.

Goodnight, it’s a shame we couldn’t come to an agreement but at least we can probably agree that the state of mental health services is awful in the Western World and desperately needs to change.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. You seem to think that “toxic masculinity” means that all thing masculine are toxic. It doesn’t. In very, very, brief terms, it means that society pushes a standard of masculinity that is toxic to men.

WWTH — I think we’re in a ninja’ing cycle here! Enjoy the cookies, I have British comedy to catch up on (Would I Lie to You?, unless QI is back? Is QI back?)

WWTH & fruitloopsie — yep, the fractal wrongness is impressive.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

Jack
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/37399862.jpg
I don’t get a-holes like you who complain that society doesn’t care about men and then turn around and say men are biologically hard wired to be violent and murder.

Also stop with this biologically hard wiring garbage there are tons of men who prefer being asked out and women who do the asking out and vise versa, men and boys have everything right to say no to a woman/girl who asked them out and also way to go on ignoring that gay people exist.

Feminism helps women and girls if you want to help men and boys then have you’re own space as one of my friends said “you don’t walk into a homeless shelter and demand they go help polar bears you go find someone who help polar bears.” Why is this hard to understand?

Again stop with the ableism stop throwing innocent mentally ill people under the bus and continue blaming feminism and everyone else for misognists’ and racists’ actions you are not helping anyone.

What I don’t understand is what any of this has to do with anything?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

Oh fuck me, why does a BBC panel show have Germaine Greer on?!? She looks like such a nice lady too, but fuck, I don’t exist in her philosophy >.<

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

Jack, as someone who has mental illness, and who has had this exact fucking discussion every time this issue pops up: Fuck off, you’re wrong, and I’m not a fucking mass murderer nor am I going to become one because of my mental illness.

One, we don’t know if he had any mental illnesses, and we’ll most likely never know because he’s dead.

Two, even if he did have a mental illness, there’s still a lot of unchecked entitlement in his manifesto and in his actions that “mental illness” will not ‘splain away, but can be attributed to racism, misogyny, and other bigotries, which aren’t mental illnesses.

Three, even if we could (and if we could, we fucking shouldn’t) diagnose him, maybe we should leave it up to actual fucking mental health professionals, instead of Keyboard Diagnosing him via the internet.

So, let’s break some other “points” of yours down, now that that’s been said:

Jack | October 9, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Because there is a stigma around men’s mental health is not taken as seriously as female mental health. In general women are more communicative about difficulties and problems and are therefore more likely to get help for them.

That’s due to Toxic Masculinity, bruh.

Here’s another post on the subject.

And another.

The idea that men are seen as being “weak” if they ask for help, even when they need it, is part of Toxic Masculinity, and men are still perpetuating this idea. And this idea has been studied when it comes to men’s mental health in prisons.

Here’s some more articles on the subject:

Toxic Masculinity is Killing Men: The Roots of Male Trauma
Mental Health Stigma, Toxic Masculinity, and Suicide

Men are more likely to successfully commit suicide than women, and suicide is one of the leading causes of death for men under 35. I would argue this is in part due to the stigmatization of male behavior and the aggressive assault on young men by interest groups such as this one.

I would argue it’s more about how men are dismissed as “weak” if they seek help, and find that suicide is the only way out, because that’s the only way men are taught to deal with their problems, though anger and violence.

On top of that, men and women attempt suicide at almost exactly the same rate, it’s just that men choose ways more likely to succeed, like guns and hanging, whereas women choose quieter ways that are less likely to succeed, like overdosing.

Women are also socialized to be quieter and to not be a bother to anyone, so they also tend to choose methods that aren’t as messy or loud.

Some more about Gender Differences in Suicide, complete with a quote:

Another common explanation relies on the social constructions of hegemonic masculinity and femininity. According to literature on gender and suicide, male suicide rates are explained in terms of traditional gender roles. Male gender roles tend to emphasize greater levels of strength, independence, and risk-taking behavior. [10] Reinforcement of this gender role often prevents males from seeking help for suicidal feelings and depression. [11]

Though, if you’d like to point out how we’re “aggressively assaulting” young men and “stigmatizing” their behavior, I’d be more than happy to debunk that too, considering you’re making a very grave accusation that somehow we’re pushing men to commit suicide.

Because we’re not “stigmatizing male behavior”, we’re stigmatizing misogyny. So, the only way that your statement makes sense is if you either don’t understand what misogyny actually is, or you conflate misogyny with “male behavior”.

Hobbies and entertainment enjoyed by men have to be diversified, men simply being themselves is problematic.

Men cannot claim hobbies and “entertainment” as a male-only space, and attempt to shove everyone else out. Movies, video games, woodworking, sewing, whatever are not specific to gender, and they’re too fucking big to be so.

Men don’t own a right to have any specific hobby or entertainment platform to only include them and no one else.

Also, diversity can also include Men of Color, LGBTQA+ men, ect, so let’s include them too, please.

Men “being men” is only problematic when they’re harming others by doing so by being sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ect. The male-identifying regulars on this site (particularly David, who runs it) I find to be rather lovely, and they manage to be men without being problematic most of the time, and when they are, it usually has nothing to do with their “maleness”.

All this does beg one question though: Why do you have such a low opinion of men?

Why do you think men “being men” has to be problematic and be sexist or include other forms of toxic masculinity or bigotry?

I don’t mind men as a whole, it’s individual men I take issue with. Not that I don’t take issue sometimes with people of other genders as well.

However, it is also due to the fact that male mental health simply isn’t taken as seriously. If you look into cases like Chris Harper and Elliot Rodgers, it is clear they have been mentally unstable for a long time and have received no help for their issues.

To quote one of our lovely regulars, Scented Fucking Hard Chairs: “Asshole is not a mental illness”.

Chris Harper and Elliot Rodgers left manifestos detailing how they felt they were owed a girlfriend and all the bonuses that go with it such as affection, love, respect, and of course, sex.

They could have had a “mental illness”, but that’s not the root of their misogyny. Misogyny and other bigotries are not mental illnesses. Misogyny has a root in how people are socialized, not in how our brains work.

You can unlearn bigotries. You cannot unlearn a mental illness.

True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex. In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships.

“You feeemales don’t know what it’s like to be ignored by people you like!”

Yeah, sure we don’t. [/sarcastic eyeroll]

Dude, and this may come as a shock to you, women are people. As such, we’ve had a lot of similar experiences that people of other genders have had.

Women have been rejected before. We’ve been ignored before. We’ve been shot down. We’ve been told we weren’t “good enough”.

Hell, I was once mocked for simply telling a guy I liked him. He and his friends laughed at me for the rest of the day, and I was too embarrassed to show my face at school, so I faked sick the next day.

I certainly didn’t feel like I was entitled to that guy’s positive attention, nor did I shoot up my school because of it. I cried, I read a book, had some ice cream, and I got over it.

But, please, do continue to mansplain to me about how easy I have it in relationships because I’m a woman.

Women still kill men for rejecting advances and such, they just don’t tend to bring take it out on others as well.

comment image

In the meantime, have this citation of men harming women for rejecting their advances from me.

Women have a much lower chance of being alone or unloved because there are a large number of single men out there for them who will do the chasing.

Yeah, but how many of those single men will women get along with? How many of those single men are actually single and not looking for an affair? How many of those single men aren’t out to score a Photoshopped Supermodel? How many of those men aren’t abusers? How many of those men won’t kill a woman for daring to reject him? How many of those men are actually in love with the woman they end up with?

Too many variables are present for you to try to simplify it that much.

You’re looking at the symptom, not the problem. The killer blames women for rejecting him and pushing him to do what he did, but the fact is that he had nobody, female or male, who was there for him.

So, if we feeemales just gave him a girlfriend, he wouldn’t have shot up the school?

And what exactly does that do for that poor hypothetical woman who would be in a relationship with the killer?

Who’s to say he wouldn’t kill her? Or treat her like garbage? Or just abuse her?

You’re essentially blaming women for him going on a shooting spree instead of looking at why he feels entitled to a girlfriend.

You’re looking at the symptom, not the problem.

He also was obsessed with the devil.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you trying to demonize Satanists now?

“‘He had a hatred of black people, women, everyone,’ the source said, adding: ‘The drive and manifesto are being analysed. There is a lot about his hatred of organised religion.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3261340/Oregon-college-shooter-angry-didn-t-girlfriend-ranted-crazy-hate-filled-manifesto.html#ixzz3o6rANbpu

Dude, I’m from the United States, and even I know that the Daily Mail is about as good of a source as your cousin’s-friend’s-niece’s-brother’s-dog.

It’s not credible.

He hated everyone. Not women in particular. Stop making this a “feminist” issue and let’s talk about the real problem here, media glorification of killers, assault on male identity, lack of mental health access in the US and gun access in the US.

http://i.imgur.com/kamTD5S.jpg

I don’t see why we can’t discuss his misogyny (you yourself admitted he hated women), his racism, his issues with religion alongside media glorification of killers, lack of mental health access in the US and gun access in the US. Sexism is just a part of his hatred, so why can’t we discuss it as a part of a broader issue?

I mean, we’re obviously people capable of caring about more than one thing at a time, and we can point out that he hated women, and thus had sexist attitudes that led to his shooting (as he stated in his manifesto), so yeah, this is a feminist issue! Surprise!

Though, a side note: I can’t speak for all of us, but most of us are Intersectional Feminists. That means we don’t just care about women’s issues, but also racism, religious issues, LGBTQA+ issues, and a bunch of other things! It’s almost like we’re people with complex brains capable of multitasking!

Though, I did leave out “assault on male identity”, because I did cover this earlier.

Short version: Stop assuming that when we attack Toxic Masculinity, we’re attacking male identity or men as a whole. You’re being ridiculous, and you’re being really shitty to men by telling them that being a sexist asshole is just “being a man”. Men can be men without being sexist, and we should be able to point out sexism without men like you getting hyper-defensive over it and trying to cover your ass by claiming that sexism against women is just “being a man”.

This isn’t the profile of a rational misogynist, it’s the profile of a guy with serious mental health problems. And he viewed his way of getting out of his pit of loneliness as lashing out at others.

Stop Keyboard Diagnosing. You’re not a mental health professional, and even if you were (which I fucking doubt), you have no right to diagnose someone you have never spoken to or was assigned to your care.

Yes, it’s always men that do this. But it’s because they’re ignored by society as a whole when it comes to their issues while feminism forever shouts about how privileged they are and how unfair things are to women.

Men are in charge of pretty much everything, broseph. Just look at how many men run the United States or any other country. Sure, we have women politicians, but the majority of politicians are men, and those men make the decisions.

Yes, some men’s issues are ignored, but let’s face facts: The important people ignoring men’s issues are, for the most part, other men.

Men can also be privileged by being men, but also be oppressed by other means, like race, sexual orientation, mental illnesses, physical disabilities, ect. And women are allowed to care when things are unfair to women, regardless of how much sexist douchebags cry about it.

It’s almost like people have unique circumstances that are different for everyone, and different people care about different things at different times and at different levels, but are still capable of caring about more than one thing at once! Gosh! [/sarcasm]

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

I’m going to ignore the passive-aggressiveness and ad-hominem parts of your post and address your rational arguments.

Do you know what ad hominem means? I don’t think you do. You haven’t used it correctly once. Nobody has used an ad hominem argument on you. Hint: it doesn’t mean that people are failing to be pleasant and deferential to you.

To the contrary, this is an example directly contrasting ‘toxic masculinity’. Men aren’t given the same respect and focus in mental health issues because society is built around the protection of women. This isn’t to do with “manning up” or something like that, it’s to do with the focus being on women rather than men.

Huh? What does protecting women have to do with discouraging men from seeking treatment for mental illness? You’re not even mistaking correlation for causation anymore. You’re conflating two completely unrelated things now. Also, feminists oppose “benevolent” sexism because it isn’t benevolent at all. So again, what are you blaming us for?

Men are biologically wired to fight and kill. So of course they’re much more likely to commit murder than women. You don’t fight biology by calling it misogyny.

Oh. There’s the evo psych. I knew it was coming! What are your sources for this assertion? Even if misogyny were biologically based, that wouldn’t make it not misogyny. Also, we fight biology all the time so this argument really, really doesn’t work. I mean, I’m assuming that if you got strep throat you’d take an antibiotic, right?

He hated everyone. So perhaps by definition that makes him a misogynist but he didn’t target women exclusively, he targeted everyone. There is incredibly evidence that PSYCHOPATHY causes a person to become violent and end up killing. I really want to reinforce this point because I don’t think you’re seeing it. He was a psychopath. He believed he was some kind of god of death, he wanted to be famous and he didn’t care who he killed. He was a psychopath. Which is a treatable mental illness.

Once again, psychopath is not a treatable mental illness. If you’re referring to APD, here is what the DSM V says about it.
http://www.theravive.com/therapedia/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-DSM–5-301.7-(F60.2)

Nothing about being treatable and nothing about racism, misogyny and anti-theism.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

Jack
“I really don’t get why you think I insult mentally ill people or something.”
http://i.imgur.com/9PqkGxV.jpg

You called misognists/racists who threaten and murdered people (including Christians) mentally ill over and over and over again and instead of them taking responsibility for their actions and seeing them as the bigoted, entitled a-holes terriorists that they are you blame everyone else including feminism.

You don’t care about the mentally ill you just want terriorists to be excused and want people to cuddle them.

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex. In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships.

While I’m waiting for my comment to come out of moderation, allow me to present a link to further disprove Jack’s “Men chase women, so women have it easy when it comes to dating!” BS.

okcthrowaway2221 had that same idea, so he set up on online dating profile pretending to be a woman.

Always a good read, that.

Nouva
Nouva
4 years ago

Whether Jack’s right or wrong, you’re all going about this the wrong way. Jack is putting his point across politely and while you are arguing back you’re still constantly insulting and belittling. It’s childish and immature and if you want a good debate you could at least show Jack some respect

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

PI
It’s amazing that Jack goes on that no one cares about men but then goes on how women aren’t ignored and have it easy, hypocrite.

I was turned down and so has my mom. Men and boys have every right to turn down women and girls if they are not interested plus there are gay and asexual men (that jacka** ignored I guess he only meant “no one cares about straight men not getting what they want like getting laid/dates”) and women. So enough with this “biologically hard wired” garbage.

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

Fruitloopsie | October 9, 2015 at 7:18 pm
I was turned down and so has my mom. Men and boys have every right to turn down women and girls if they are not interested plus there are gay and asexual men (that jacka** ignored I guess he only meant “no one cares about straight men not getting what they want like getting laid/dates”) and women.

I’m just going to second all of this right here. Nicely done.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

“Whether Jack’s right or wrong, you’re all going about this the wrong way. Jack is putting his point across politely and while you are arguing back you’re still constantly insulting and belittling. It’s childish and immature and if you want a good debate you could at least show Jack some respect”

Against my better judgment, I’m going to assume good faith and try to limit the snark — you just said “oppressed people be nicer to people defending your oppressors”. Not cool. If you want to be polite to him and reply to each one of his points, go right ahead, that’s your choice. If we’ve decided we’ve done this song and dance too many times to continue being all nice and polite in response to views that really aren’t very nice, that’s our choice. Because really, his insistence on blaming feminism and armchair diagnosing mass murders may not contain words like “fuck”, but it isn’t any nicer than me telling him to go fuck off.

But seeing how you just told a bunch of feminists that we’re childish and immature for not coddling yet another dude who doesn’t understand feminist concepts but is sure they’re wrong… I really doubt your comment was made in good faith.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Whether Jack’s right or wrong, you’re all going about this the wrong way.

Ooh. Tone policing! Our old friend. Funny how it’s always the people arguing from the marginalized perspective who get this while the people arguing from the privileged perspective never do.

Jack is putting his point across politely and while you are arguing back you’re still constantly insulting and belittling.

Oh really? Let’s take a look back at Jack’s posts and see how polite they are.

Yet more sensationalist nonsense. Everytime something like this happens it’s always straight onto the Misogyny bus where we once again blame male culture and this magic phenomenon known as “toxic masculinity”, shouting over any tragedy that our patriarchal, woman hating society caused this and we should pay more attention to women’s issues.

Not off to a good start. He calls either David’s post, our comments, or both “sensationalist nonsense” and puts toxic masculinity in scare quotes in order to be dismissive and condescending.

you posted an ‘article’ where you plucked some anonymous user’s opinions off a website and said “omg look how mean these people are!!!1!!”. pathetic.

More square quotes and a bonus insult. Is that polite?

This is how he chose to introduce himself to the blog. Now, on to the second post

Congratulations, you threw some buzzwords at me and insulted me. Thank you for the discussion.

A snarky and condescending tone towards Fruitloopsie, who is probably the nicest person who regularly posts here. He dismissed the terms we have to discuss oppression against women as “buzzwords.”

This is your idea of polite? I could go on, but I think I’ve presented enough of Jack’s words to make my point.

It’s childish and immature and if you want a good debate you could at least show Jack some respect

Who says we want a debate? This isn’t a space for debating the merits of feminism. This is a space for mocking misogyny.

Why this has to be pointed out so often is a mystery.

As long as Jack doesn’t violate the commenting policy and as long as David continues to allow him, he can post his arguments here as much as he wants. That doesn’t mean he’s entitled to a polite debate, or our patience, niceness or education.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

Nouva
I’m seriously sick and tired of a-holes coming here defending misognists and other bigots and throwing mentally ill around and suddenly being the hyprocrites that you all are demanding us to be “nice” because we won’t just shut up and let you say whatever nasty stuff that you want. And “childish and immature” thanks for the ableism and ageist garbage now buzz off.

PI
Thanks I’m glad I could help.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

WWTH
“A snarky and condescending tone towards Fruitloopsie, who is probably the nicest person who regularly posts here.”
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/345/169/bc7.png

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
4 years ago

I’m actually pretty sure Fruitloopsie is made of 100% pure cane sugar.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
4 years ago

PI
“Hell, I was once mocked for simply telling a guy I liked him. He and his friends laughed at me for the rest of the day, and I was too embarrassed to show my face at school, so I faked sick the next day.”

I’m sorry that happened to you, it’s ok for men and boys to turn down women and girls whom they’re not interested in but not like that, what a bunch of a-holes. Hugs!

Pandapoolcomment image

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger | October 9, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Who says we want a debate? This isn’t a space for debating the merits of feminism. This is a space for mocking misogyny.

Why this has to be pointed out so often is a mystery.

As long as Jack doesn’t violate the commenting policy and as long as David continues to allow him, he can post his arguments here as much as he wants. That doesn’t mean he’s entitled to a polite debate, or our patience, niceness or education.

I’m going to petition David to slap this in the new sidebar.

“This isn’t a space for debating feminism or its merits. This is a space for mocking misogyny.

You are do not have the right to polite debate, patience, niceness, or education on behalf of other commenters.

You have been warned.”

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

Whoops, I hit post before I returned Fruitloopsie’s hugs and seconded her bit about the hypocrite Tone Police.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

*signs PI’s petition*

Paradoxical Intention
4 years ago

And I just noticed the typo. Fuuuuuuck.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
4 years ago

I’m just gonna leave this here for our dear “you don’t take mental illness seriously” friend — I can swallow 11 pills in one go, so really, fuck you.

And fuck whomever decided that the best way to do 175mg was 100 + 3x 25 instead of 150 + 25, cuz really now!

(I can actually do more like 15 in one go, but none of the “take as needed” are needed [granted, only one is mental health related])

Tessa
Tessa
4 years ago

Jack:
(others have responded to other things, I wanted to focus on this because it’s a big pet peeve of mine.)

True, women have not gone on shooting sprees such as the ones in recent years due to feelings of being ignored by the opposite sex but that’s because they simply aren’t ignored by the opposite sex. In general, men are the chasers and women are the selectors when it comes to relationships. Women still kill men for rejecting advances and such, they just don’t tend to bring take it out on others as well. Women have a much lower chance of being alone or unloved because there are a large number of single men out there for them who will do the chasing.

This is very incorrect. Now, you have this idea of “chasers” and “selectors”. But this is all wrong. “Why is it all wrong?” you ask. Well, because men select who to chase. Men get the choice on who to go after. They are not animals that simply react to movement. They get the choice of whether or not to initiate the entire interaction. Women don’t get that choice typically. Women only get to select from the ones who select them first.

Guys like you like to somehow imply this dynamic gives the women power. But nooo, men are the ones who control whether or not the situation is initiated, technically between them and any women they see. Women only have control over whether or not to continue the interaction, and they only have that control in the situations that the finite number of man have started.

Women in this scenario can only reject men who have first chosen them. Men reject all women they have not first chosen.

This premise is why you believe that even with a similarly equal population, a significantly higher number of women can be in relationship than men. Because to you, it’s not men vs women, it’s men vs “women-you-would-chase.”

But of course, this whole dynamic is artificial and enforced on people. In the lesbian community we get by wonderful with personality type and inclination to determine if a person pursues or is pursued, not based on gender.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

I just found this interview with a psychiatrist and an actual expert on this matter and lo and behold! He (that’s right Jack, a he. Not a misandrist feminazi with a ladybrain) agrees far more with us than he does with Jack and the rest of the blame it on crazy crowd.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/09/we_need_to_prevent_them_from_having_access_to_an_efficient_killing_technology/

Frostbite883
Frostbite883
4 years ago

>>>Whether Jack’s right or wrong, you’re all going about this the wrong way. Jack is putting his point across politely and while you are arguing back you’re still constantly insulting and belittling. It’s childish and immature and if you want a good debate you could at least show Jack some respect

Yeah. It’s not like the guy insulted people and dismissed any evidence that demonstrated that his conclusions are utter nonsense out of his own biasism and hatred toward an entire group of folks he clearly didn’t take the time to understand more. /s

Frostbite883
Frostbite883
4 years ago

Also, how much no one here would bet that Jack is really Felix?

Frostbite883
Frostbite883
4 years ago

Rather, how many of you are willing to bet Jack is really Felix?

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