So over on the Roosh V Forum, the regulars are wondering if anything can free them, and the world at large, from the terrible injustice of having to share the planet with fat women no man would ever want to have sex with, except for all of those men who do.
Sonsowey gets the discussion going with a plaintive question:
Does anyone out there think there is some force that could cause the obesity epidemic to reverse? Any chance we will look back on the multitude of landwhales as a sad relic of a more primitive time? Or is it nothing but bigger and bigger from here on out.
In fact, the “obesity epidemic” has already shown signs of plateauing — as several Roosh V commenters note. Indeed, obesity levels have been relatively stable for more than a decade, suggesting that Roosh V fans who think they’re suddenly being swamped by a rising tide of fat chicks are pretty much imagining the whole thing.
Never let it be said that Red Pillers lack imagination. Particularly when it comes to envisioning a possible solution to the Fattie Question.
Roosh V Forum commenter Kabal is hoping that sexy robot ladies can put some pressure on our nation’s non-robot ladies:
A leftward shift in the supply curve of male thirst would put more pressure on girls to get their shit together to maintain the same level of male attention.
At the very least, the more men’s balls are drained, the less inspired they will be to satiate the female demand for attention (e.g. Instagram likes, cat-calling, shitty approaches, etc.).
Yes, that’s right. It turns out that, despite all appearances to the contrary, women just LOVE being cat-called by random men as they go about their day, a desire they broadcast to the world by marching grimly ahead with disgusted looks on their faces as gross dudes make kissy sounds at them.
Now what if sex-bots are realistic enough to serve as companions? 90s AOL instant messenger chat-bots could already pass Turing Tests for basic bitches in terms of conversation.
Uh, dude, maybe they could pass your own personal Turing Tests, but somehow I’m thinking your conversational skills are only slightly more advanced than that of AOL Instant Messenger bots.
So really, it’s only an aesthetic problem in making sex-bots more appealing to men.
An attractive real woman would certainly beat a realistic sex-bot in the eyes of most men. However, an unattractive real woman vs. a realistic sex-bot? Hm…
If that doesn’t work, well, there’s always eugenics:
Just like with intelligence and height, parents should be able to screen for lower probabilities of obesity in potential offspring via pre-implantation genetic diagnosis.
DannyAlberta, meanwhie, pins his hopes for an end to obesity on economic collapse and literal mass starvation.
in the event that we have a severe economic catastrophe (like the kind doomsayers like peter schiff have been predicting for over a decade) and western governments (like in the uk, canada and the us) end up really, really broke – to the extent that social spending and “entitlements” end or are severely curtailed and the average person is left with very little disposable income – then yes the obesity epidemic might end, simply because fewer and fewer people will be able to afford anything other than a caloric deficit …
if we are restored to a more “eat what you kill” system (heh), the skinnier we might well get.
Civpro has similarly apocalyptic fantasies:
I think it will turn around eventually. As “good men” are disenfranchised and outbred, the wealthy secular welfare state for which they are the social capital will crumble, and so will the freedom that women have to look so terrible.
Not all of the Roosh V forum regulars are quite so, er, optimistic.
Strikeback offers this Totally Real Not Made Up Field Report, describing how he and a petite date were nearly stampeded by “kaijus” — a kind of Japanese movie monster — on the dancefloor.
Maybe experts on population health can see something I can’t, but from a street level view, I’m not positive.
Let’s take last weekends. I was out dancing, 162lb me and a petite 100lb girl. Two category 4 kaijus, each challenging our combined bodyweights, pushed their way into our space, nearly steamrolling us. I expertly manoeuvred my girl out of the way. Seconds later, out of the corner of my eyes, I saw a tall slim decent looking suited up guy losing control of his category 5 kaiju (a sight very common in Australia) and the gigantic butterball reptile spun our way while my girl froze with a horrified look on her face. Me to the rescue, once more… close call. We decided to leave the dance floor afterwards before more Cat 5 kaijus showed up.
Kaijus here used to be wallflowers, or hiding in the dark corners waiting for tall good-looking moneyed drunk male preys. Now they’re fearless and rolling straight out onto the dance floor to spread their toxic fats and smells.
The war is lost, gentlemen.
I think I speak for fellow, er, kaijus of all genders everywhere when I say: fuck you, dude!
Here’s a woman expressing that same thought in interpretive dance:
@spacelawn
it’s not really about condoning a cetain body type, it’s about the fact that other people’s weight is none of their (or anyones) business.
Teaching a healthy life style and making it accessible, explaining health risks ect. are all good, non-judgmental things.
Making others feel bad for their own choices (if it even is a choice) that affect them personally and no one else, frowning upon their body, that’s a completely different thing and rarely ever has anything to do with concern for their well-being.
My sister is 5’1″ and 90-ish pounds, but she’s both small-framed and medically underweight due to various health issues.
It’s funny, though, because my nickname for her is “Kaiju”, because of a very entertaining incident involving a Pathfinder game, her dragon disciple, and a wand of enlarge person. It didn’t end well, but it was hilarious.
THIS is the exact reason why I hated going to parties when I was 14! Even though I was then at my thinnest (and bulimic). And why I hate to go clubbing to this day.
Sometimes I really hate how the guys from the manospheres validate each and every fucked up fear I’ve ever had about my body and what people think of me.
Awww, look at that cute girl dance! I want to do a bit now, but I probably shouldn’t. (Back surgery is in my near future.)
Those Red Pillers sound like closet fat girl fetishists to me. But I hope not, they would be bad news for the women in their lives.
Hello, Actual Fat Girl™ here!
The Fat Acceptance movement, or Healthy At Every Size movement (HAES), depending on who you ask, isn’t just about accepting fat people as part of society, but also encouraging us to love themselves no matter our weight, and understanding that while obesity does lead to health issues, people who are obese, fat, chubby, and what-have-you shouldn’t be shamed into losing weight by assholes who think that fat is only analogous to unhealthy lifestyles. And it also aims to help people understand that not everyone who is fat can simply just lose weight by going on shitty diets that fuck your metabolism and doing excessive exercise that could lead to injury, and it doesn’t have to do with just eating “too much” food or “too much junk food” or not having “self-control” or being “lazy”.
There’s a fuckton of stigma surrounding fat, as well as a lot of misinformation that gets passed down as Health Dogma, and some of this shit gets passed down by doctors.
On top of that, while you can view someone as being “obese” because of their body structure and the way they look, it doesn’t say jack shit about their health or how fat they actually are overall. Different body types carry weight differently!
For instance:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e188/laurabryannan/150lbs.jpg
All of these women are 150 pounds.
And there’s even “obese” people who are Olympic fucking Athletes. Holley Mangold weighs 323 pounds, and she’s an Olympic Weightlifter.
We understand there is health concerns surrounding obesity, but to be honest, it isn’t anyone else’s job to worry about it besides ours and our doctor’s. The best thing you can do is be supportive and encouraging if someone decides to lose weight for themselves, and still be supportive and encouraging if they decide not to. Either way, we should be able to love ourselves.
If you’d like to read more on the subject, this is a blog I follow on tumblr that’s really chock-full of good information.
First one face down on the ground in a famine is the tall skinny person. Storing fat well is a great adaptation for famine.
They can’t even get their eugenics right.
“Didn’t Roosh call stocking toilet paper a pick up strategy or some nonsense? I remember much mockery about how does he not have asswipe on hand?”
Much of the world doesn’t use toilet paper. He said his father was from Iran and his mother is from Turkey. In Iran, Turkey and many other countries people use water instead of toilet paper to clean after going to toilet.
Also I want to add that one can perfectly accept people and be critical.
I can accept my partners fat body and still question his choice to eat ice cream every night, and in that case, it would be out of honest concern. I can make observations based on the facts I know, not because of the body I see in front of me.
But I can’t accept that the mere mentioning of his fatness could hurt his feelings, since it is really just a description and shouldn’t imply anything about his worth as a human being.
That goes for a lot of words, though. Like dumb.
That could’ve been a perfectly valid description of one attribute of a person, it’s the value we attach to it that’s the problem.
Or maybe it’s jsut late over here, and I should go to bed instead of talking.
At the end of the day even if a person is fat due to eating unhealthy and not exercising is their business and their doctors. Fat acceptance is basically letting people make their own choice and not belittle/discriminating them for it. Its their problem not yours!
That would at least explain that particular bit of Roosh weirdness. His general hygiene standards are still subpar for a supposed dating god, but toilet paper being cultural would at least explain why he may not have any.
TW: disordered eating
Yeah, you definitely can’t tell whether or not someone is healthy just by looking at them a lot of the time. When I was at the worst point of my eating disorder, I was about 125 lbs at 5’5″ I probably looked pretty healthy to the outside world and that’s not underweight according to the BMI. Yet, I was eating 200-250 calories 6 days a week and mostly keeping myself alive by allowing myself to cheat on Fridays and getting pizza or Chinese. When I broke down and ate a meal outside of my appointed cheat time I would have to purge and usually saw blood, meaning chunks of esophagus or stomach tissue were coming up with the food. My blood was orange and soupy, which I discovered when I fell off my bike and cut up my knee and there were points that I couldn’t walk more than a block or so without getting dizzy and having to sit down. But hey. at least I could fit into a size four. So I must have been healthy, right!?
10 years later I don’t know what I way. At a size 12, I’m definitely chubby. I was at the highest end of the “normal” BMI when I was a size 6 and an athlete so I must be overweight. I’m also quite healthy. I’m lucky to be so healthy considering all the self destructive things I’ve done to my body. But I bet you anything that if you showed a picture of me now and me a decade ago to a bunch of people and asked them which version of me is in better health, the vast majority would pick eating disordered WWTH. I may not be conventionally attractive anymore, but I have no trouble walking anywhere, I don’t get dizzy unless it’s under typical circumstances like getting up too fast or spending too much time in the hot sun without water. I can’t remember the last time I vomited blood.
When I was starving myself and rapidly losing weight, I almost never got concern trolled about diet. Because I was making myself more conventionally attractive. I was conforming to gender roles. Nobody but a couple of people close to me were concerned about health. Thin people don’t have their diets monitored so much. If a naturally skinny person eats fast food every day, nobody cares. People don’t care about the health of fat people. Especially fat women, who often carry their weight in their hips, thighs, and butts where it doesn’t do much damage and who tend to be able to safely carry a lot more weight than men. People care about the diet and exercise habits because they don’t fit into norms. This is doubly true for fat women.
Frowning upon people’s weight doesn’t actually help them lose weight Fat shaming is so psychology damaging that it makes people take less care of their health, not more. Pretending that you care about people’s health while you’re emotionally abusing them, expressing revulsion at them, and calling their bodies diseased is just so shitty. I’m really tired of it. Here’s one of multiple studies I’ve read about that shows this https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/
Since other people are commenting a lot on a “eat only what you kill” thing…
The world can only reasonably accommodate 10 million or so hunter-gatherers, so that’s not really an option for most. Pre-industrial farming would probably limit it to around 1 billion. Also, about 95% of people would have to be farmers, and life could be crazy harsh at some times, what with the plagues and marauders and tax collectors who won’t take “crop failure” for an answer. I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to go back to nothing but small family farms using post-industrial technology, but there’s no guarantee of it working with the 7.3 billion and counting people that presently exist.
Also, life’s generally better when the majority of people aren’t farmers and can take care of other things, so there’s that.
@WWT
Oh boy, I HEAR YOU! Back when I was at 65kg and eating under 1000 calories a day to lose those last five kilos (they were MYTHICAL those last 5 kg! Once you lose them you’ll fit into the clothes you want! Once you lose them assholes will start liking you instead of, you know, being assholes! Once you lose them you’ll stop feeling like a pariah wherever you go!) I was with a professional dietitian who monitored my eating and weight and everything. 😀 And I was throwing up and abusing laxatives! And my dietitian never noticed! And my mom did and never told her! BUT OMG JUST THOSE LAST FIVE KILOS AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY!
I’m of the mind no-one should try and lose weight.
Exercise and eating healthy are both good practices. If the weight is caused by poor activity and diet, then diet and exercise will cause weight loss naturally, otherwise they are still going to result in improved health outcomes, regardless of weight.
Focusing on weight as the direct marker of health is counterproductive and dangerous. It causes people to focus on the short term solutions, scams and dangerous activities in search of immediate gratification.
I don’t think my Mom crested 100 (excepting during pregnancy) until menopause, but she’s a tiny little bird-person.
They’re out there.
@PI – Neat Tumblr.
@mockingbird
I think your mom might be a fairy creature.
re: skinny not necessarily being healthy: I loose my appetite when I’m stressed, so during my divorce I was around 120 lbs at 5’9″. And that was with a fair amount of muscle – I had a job that involved running around a hilly campus all day.
I’d stopped menstruating.
I got soooo many random complements from people, including several admiring, kind of creepy queries of, “How did you get SO THIN?”
By eating only multigrain crackers because they were one of the few things I could stomach.
On good days, I’d include cheese.
It didn’t sink in for me until then how thoroughly our culture fetisizes “thin” at the expense of “healthy”.
@WWTH
yeah, that sounds somewhat familiar.
I didn’t have to deal with a disorder, but I was underfed thanks to an abusive dad and no one noticed. Access to food was very restricted in my home.
But once I got away and had a job, one of the first things I did was enjoy what hadn’t been available before, and everyone and their mother had an opinion on that.
Some even were “positive”, telling me that the weight gain looked good on me, but without exception from people I didn’t want to comment on my appearance in the first place.
But I wasn’t tired all the time any more, I was able to concentrate so much better. It’s so much harder to focus when you’re constantly hungry.
And yeah, it seems to be so much harder for an obese person to achieve a healthier lifestyle.
Even without considering other factors like depression, it’s a choice between getting called lazy or being ridiculed for going jogging in public.
I’m 5’3 and a size 14, and I routinely walk 2 miles to work without batting an eye. When I was unemployed and basically spent a year playing world of Warcraft, I topped out at a size 16.
Reblogged this on The Monster's Ink and commented:
When the apocalypse comes, the ones who live the longest will be those who can grow food, provide healthcare with rudimentary materials, and make things from scratch. That may well include a lot of us fat bitches. When that time comes, these misogynist shitbags will be left to starve. Their remains will be insect food. We won’t miss them.
“I’m of the mind no-one should try and lose weight.”
See, I’d say it depends how they decide to go about that, cuz I hit thirty this summer and the reality that I wasn’t gonna drop those ten pounds by laying off ice cream set in…so I took up aerials. Haven’t lost a damned pound (okay, maybe one, I haven’t been keeping exact track!), but I’m loving it.
But there’s a definite difference between “exercise I might love that might cause me to lose weight” and “exercise I am doing solely to lose weight (that I probably hate doing)”
I can’t tell if I’m nitpicking your words, or justifying being bruised and sore while wishing I could afford to take two aerials classes a week! I have no idea how I can love it so much when I end up looking like I fell down a flight of stairs and caught everyone of them in the back of the knee… but I do. We’ll go with “wait, this is actually exercise? Sure I’m sweating my ass off, and bruised, but I’m upside down in the air and look at this!”
Of course not, since they’d probably be first to be culled/neutered were eugenics implemented.
I’m 5’6″, weigh well over 150, and yet I wear a US size 14 in most cuts of clothing. I’m hippy and busty, and since I have my dad’s mesomorphic tendency, I tend to gain weight as muscle. (I’m also fairly big-boned, for what it’s worth.) The idea that I must weigh 100, or even 150, in order to qualify as “healthy” and pretty is absurd to me now, but in my impressionable early and mid-20s, it wasn’t hard for a shitty boyfriend to reduce me to tears by ragging me about my weight. Which WAS 150 or less at that time. (At one time, MUCH less, because I was depressed about a guy who dumped me, and eating poorly.)
I guess what I’d like to say here is that I’ve been healthier mentally as well as physically since I’ve stopped weighing myself, and stopped worrying about my weight. It’s held steady, even if it is higher than my doctor would like. Stability and sanity matter more to me than fitting into the latest (ridiculous) fashions, or into the profile marked “dateable” by guys I don’t want to date (and in the case of PUAs, would kick to the curb easily and with relish).
That’s not to say that I don’t get mighty irritated whenever thin privilege rears its scrawny head. Or whenever someone who has internalized that unhealthy mindset presumes to lecture me about how “unhealthy” THEY think I am. My blood pressure is typically the same as it was when I was a skinny teenager. I’ve baffled doctors who were sure I ought to have gallbladder problems, heart trouble, or pre-diabetes at this size, and turned out to be just fine on all the points that people with my BMI are supposed to be deathly sick on. I’ve come to the conclusion that BMI is bullshit, and that doctors should stop using it even as a rough gauge of health. It’s a glorified version of those old insurance charts, and nothing more.
To know how healthy someone is, you actually have to run tests: blood sugar, cholesterols, triglycerides, etc. As more than a few people here have pointed out, you can have a “healthy” BMI while deathly ill with an eating disorder, cancer, etc. And athletes in superb physical shape (with bodies to die for) can score as “obese” because they, like me, have packed on a lot of muscle, which weighs more than fat. Or because their bones are sturdy, like mine. Hell, there are lots of healthy people who are frankly fat! Expecting anyone to fit into a narrow band labelled “healthy” just because some chart says so is absurd.