So the fellas over on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit are having a little debate, of sorts. What unappealing inanimate object is the best metaphor for women over the dreaded age of 30? You know, elderly women.
Someone calling himself mlpl2015 goes with an old favorite: spoiled milk.
As the old joke goes:
“The food there is terrible! And such small portions!”
Joblessguy10, mlpl2015’s main opponent in this makeshift debate, goes with a fairly shopworn metaphor himself, declaring that “older” women are like used cars, depreciating by the day. But he weirds it up with some graphic sexual details. And some racism.
![joblessguy10 24 points 2 days ago Or, to compare women as objects, buying a 2005 model year Mercedes Benz S Class with wear and tear, gonnorhea stains in the back, and cum on the steering wheel, and 150K miles for the price of a fresh off the line 2016 Mercedes Benz S Class with 0 miles and 0 wear and tear. Also, Mercedes--both the car and the woman--has a low resale value and suffer depreciation. A woman will get fucked and cummed in, gets old, and comes to you. One day, in bed, she'll crave Tyrone's 13" cock. Would you allow yourself to pay even half price for a woman that's 30 and had a blast in her past? One of the reasons why I go MGTOW is because if the woman isn't attractive and fresh/very low mileage, there is no point paying for such a woman anyway. What does she have to offer you? And even if you get such am attractive woman, she's going to control your life, cheat on you, and then financially rape you. By the way, a woman doesn't have to be attractive to treat you like shit. Average looking and even fat women think they're worth full price. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. permalinksavereportgive goldreply [–]AmlanceJockey 19 points 2 days ago Also, there are two kids in the back. permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]cagethepepper 13 points 1 day ago Tyrone is in the trunk.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tyronetrunk.png?resize=500%2C546&ssl=1)
I’ll get to the racism in a second, but my first question is: How exactly is joblessguy10 going to be paying for his brand-new Mercedes when he doesn’t have a job?
And on the metaphor itself: why is a car having sex with dudes (including the one it has stored inside of its own car body) instead of having sex with other cars, like normal cars do!
And just how bad does someone’s gonorrhea have to be that they are leaving visible stains on the upholstery? Have you guys accidentally mixed up “sex” with “David Cronenberg movies?”
Ok, the racism. Why are so many of these manosphere dudes so obsessed with the specter of hypersexualized black men with giant dicks having sex with “their” women? And then talking about this creepy fetishized fear online in a way that exposes their terror at their own perceived (or possibly quite real) sexual inadequacies?
Are fears of “race cuckolding’ really this widespread? Or is it just that the guys posting about “Tyrone” and his 13-inch cock on MGTOW message boards are the same guys who are yelling about “cuckservatives” on Twitter and The Daily Stormer?
I don’t know. I think I’m going to go watch an old David Cronenberg movie. Compared to these dudes, the man who’s been called “the King of Venereal Horror” has a subtle and healthy view of female sexuality.
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I don’t want to get into TMI territory here but I’m curious as to why they’re so obsessed with virgins.
To use an imperfect analogy, if you’re a foodie then your favourite chef is more likely to have clocked up quite some time in lots of restaurants rather than someone who’s never even made a sandwich.
“(once you’ve had most things in your life on your own or with someone else there’s very little in a relationship to be built, its why late in life marriages are just “I don’t want to die and not be found for years” insurance)”
Damn, here I thought I was looking for snuggles and someone to watch BBC America with (curse you BBC, offer me the real deal, I’ll pay the licensing fee!)… and other such things. I was unaware that I wasn’t looking for a partner(s), but just for someone to find my body before my fish starve!
Spacelawn — dick seizes and long distance relationships! You’ve slain me, I iz ded 🙁
The welcome package was cloudiah’s site, I’m guessing the link went with her, I should have the original in a file on my mac, but for the time being:
Please pull up a hard chair, you’ll find matching towels over that way, fluff pillows in that corner, SCENTED MOTHERFUCKING CANDLES throughout, but be wary of the misandrist penguins, they aren’t always the nicest bunch (it’s probably the spanx they’re wearing to trap a man, that stuff can get uncomfortable!)
Now, back to my snark yeah? Men are incapable of the sort of friendships women form? I don’t even know what to say to that. I really truly don’t, besides that it’s silly, but that seems self-evident. As for places full of women (and one thing spanx is good for) — I treated myself to an aerials course for my 30th… nearly entirely women. Apparently I actually am old at thirty though, at least when it comes to taking up a form of gymnastics — but I’m not the oldest one there, and even if you are way older than everyone, it’s fun!
…exhausting, but fun. I’m too tired to fetch coffee, which will surprise lots of folks here!
Steampunked — congrats on your brother’s new brother!
Of course, they’re scared that a woman with any actual experience would at best, eye-roll and call a cab to come and get her, and at worst, mock them for their shitty sex techniques.
Then they wonder why the woman wasn’t impressed and falling at his feet to worship him.
Though, all this talk of really huge dildos is making me want go go play some Saints’ Row.
@This Handle – Don’t settle for just anyone.
A good marriage is a wonderful thing, but a bad one is…well, it’s just soul-crushing awfulness.
The most defeated, miserable people I’ve known have been that way, at least in part, because they’ve been in bad marriages.
Wait for someone who gets you, who appreciates your sense of humor and the ways you show your love. Find someone who will thank you for being you and who you can genuinely thank in return.
It’s really, truly worth it.
Alan Robertshaw
I’d say part of it is thinking she’ll compare him to the past men she slept with and find him lacking. But I think another part is the whole “purity” idea. Not to mention, since they’re not after sex for fun or pleasure (which is kinda sad), but for status, if they have sex with a woman who’s had lots of sex, obviously that’s not much of a status gain.
Wait… Did that BRBGTGBOWFLEX guy really say he keeps a spreadsheet of sex partners? Does that seem creepy to anybody else? Or am I being a bit judgey.
I, um, may have disgusting insight into the obsession with virginal young girls. Hopefully not. I got Lolita for 50¢ and have been attempting to not barf on it after my aerials classes, and if these guys are the same as the ones who act like her abuser is falsely shamed blah blah blah? The first 20 pages (all I’ve managed so far because seriously, it is that disturbing), spend too long laying out every little fucking detail of what makes Lolita and girls like her (nympets *gags*) different. If these assholes are those assholes, it’s that idea that some girls (I definitely do mean girls) have some magical quality that makes them fuckable beyond their years… not wanting to go to jail these asshole what the actually (but barely) legal version of Lolita.
If that’s all a bit wish you washy, it’s because I seriously do not want to have to repeat any of the book, lets just say that descriptions you might use to describe your girlfriend/wife, are applied to 9-14 year olds (with two pages devoted to why that age range). Anyone who can possibly read this and think HH is the victim and not a disgusting child molestor… needs help.
/tangent
@Argneti
Well, from what I gather, Lolita not suppose to be pro-child molestation. He’s suppose to be utterly obsessed with her and it’s suppose to be negative. I’ve never read it so I don’t know for sure.
I’ve read A Clockwork Orange though. The main character is DEFINITELY not suppose to be someone you agree with in that. At least not until the last chapter when he tries to turn his life around.
If women over 30 are spoiled milk, then I’m at least sharp cheddar:). I like sharp cheddar.
@Argenti Aertheri
I’ve been reading Lolita too! I don’t remember where I stopped, but it was further than twenty pages.
I’ve heard that Nabokov at least manages to make the reader hate Lolita, but so far I’m pretty neutral about her. I’ve got to a part of the book where HH is telling the reader that he “knew” she totally wanted him, but, even assuming he wasn’t completely delusional, you can easily read that as a child trying to mimic social interactions. I really don’t see anything in that character that makes it look like she’d be mature enough to understand what is going on, much less that she should be blamed for anything.
But in regards to the narrator… Even if he wasn’t a child molester, he’d still be an asshole. He even sounds remarkably like some of the more pretentious manospherians out there.
Though, as for the virgin thing, I believe it must have something to do with the notion of “purity” and status, as Tessa suggested – probably things related to pregnancy and seeing women as property. We’d have to look into what several cultures thought of virginity before starting to draw conclusions, but, either way, this virgin obsession is ancient!
(But imagining that it has something to do with MRAesque guys in the past being afraid of having their performance mocked is kind of amusing)
That’s the thing about HH in Lolita though. He’s an unreliable narrator. He’s not supposed to be liked. We’re supposed to be disgusted by him, and his victim blaming bullshit, trying to say that he couldn’t resist Lolita and she “wants him”.
He’s not supposed to be sympathetic. He’s fucking gross. And I want nothing to do with people who think otherwise.
@Pandapool
I’ve heard that the intention was to show how powerful language can be by making the reader side with the protagonist/against the child he abuses, which I haven’t so far, but who knows; I’ve still got more than half the book to go through.
Either way, being inside HH’s head is often really disgusting.
@RosaDeLava
IDK I heard he still obsessive about her even when she’s older and is with someone else? IDK IDK I’ve only heard about it, I’ve never read it myself.
@Pandapool
I haven’t read the whole thing, but I think he never stops being obssessed with her – or, rather, the idea of her.
From all I’ve seen, I’m not even sure if HH thinks of her as a human being. Hell, I’m not sure if he thinks of anyone as a human being.
@Paradoxical Intention
My feelings towards HH have been pretty consistently “You are horrible; get ouf ot the planet”, but, since we see the story through his eyes and he sees Dolores as an archetype instead of a person, I worry about what my opinions of her might become.
Pandapool, Paradoxical Intention, RosaDeLava — yeah, we, as readers (and sensible people), are supposed to be disgusted by him, anyone who says they’ve read it and it’s is either a liar, or gross. Maybe it’s that I picked it up because of seeing the assholes that get mocked here tout it out as support of … male sexual attraction to female preteens / early teens. Most certainly not over
3028252119. (Please tell me that’s the lowest they’ve ever gone, please.)In any case, my brain is conflating the “grown ass men liking 14 year old girls is perfectly natural [insert anti-feminist rant here]” and the “women over [pick an age] are [pick an insult]”.
——
As for the history of virginity… in a very very broad sentence, besides religious beliefs, part of it had to do with property inheritance and the need to know, with certainty, that his oldest son was his son. And, of course, the property inherited by him from her father, aka her.
The obsession with virginity is part and parcel with their view of women as objects rather than people. See, people acquire and develop skills – they get better at something the more they do it. But objects are just the opposite – they suffer wear and tear and get worse at their function the more they do it. Scissors become dull. Cars start to run rough and eventually break down. And so on. And to MRAs, women – or their vaginas, which is after all the only important part of a woman – are no different.
@Tessa
>>Wait… Did that BRBGTGBOWFLEX guy really say he keeps a spreadsheet of sex partners? Does that seem creepy to anybody else? Or am I being a bit judgey.<<
I've had a few beers but something close to similar occurred with the Duke University "Fuck List" (although I don't know if the person who wrote it used a spreadsheet), though I don't know if that's as bad. The Wikipedia for it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Duke_University_faux_sex_thesis_controversy . Again, no idea if it could be considered the same thing but…
Oh no! Poland is becoming degenerate just like America. Wimmin more interested in jobs and making money than being barefoot and pregnant. How dare they! The End Times are here.
I got married in my early 20’s. All I can say is that if I pass anything along to my daughter it will be that she should not get married until she’s had at least a couple of long term relationships and some short term ones too. For most people there just isn’t enough time to do this until you hit your early 30’s. Now I have a partner who is my best friend and even though we have been together for going on 8 years, we still can’t get enough of each others company.
Now, I just want to say this. There is a perfectly reasonable chance that I could have worked things out with my first husband and remained married to him. There is no reason really that we didn’t stay together other than that we mutually just didn’t feel it anymore. But, I am sure if we had come from different backgrounds (strict Catholics or something like that), we would not have been free to let go of the marriage. We would be trapped in a boring lackluster marriage because we would be terrified of dying alone.
I am super glad that I did not believe that. I am now with a man who I will spend the rest of my life loving deeply and passionately and who will love me the same. Not to mention that we just have so much damn fun together, even pulling carpet like we had to do today!
Handle, you seem like a cool dude, but I think you have anxieties that distort your thinking. The way you lay it out, everyone has to follow a set schedule that includes getting married within a two-year window (!), or else they’re doomed to loneliness and disappointment forever. Rationally, does that sound true? You don’t know any happy people who married early, or late, or never, or more than once?
Trust me, you’re not alone. I’ve encountered any number of cautious guys who haven’t dated much but have convinced themselves they know exactly how relationships work, and this is how they work: if you don’t get Teen Movie Love That Is Forever and Perfect, you’ll be forced into Arthouse Movie Marriage of Convenience To Hideous Joy Vampire Who Moves Us to the Nightmare Suburbs That Symbolize Living Death and I’m Played by Kevin Spacey. Often connected to this is the odd notion that a relationship with someone who’s had different experiences, who continually surprises you and teaches you new things and doesn’t fit into your plans, would be boring.
It wouldn’t be boring. But it would be risky. Dealing with humans is always risky. This is not a movie. Take that and do with it what you will.
Once again, Shaenon wins the internet. This is amazingly good advice.
What are all these “firsts” you’re supposed to have with your partner? I can barely think of any firsts I’ve had with my wife, except the whole wedding thing and cat insurance.
So a facebook friend (and seriously, he seems so nice in person but he posts so much of this sort of stuff sometimes) posted a link to Breitbart and an article that pulls out all the old favourites (women are privileged, men are the oppressed, sexbots are a disaster for feminism because it takes away female privilege, etc). It seemed to dovetail nicely with this idea that real women are things that can be replaced rather than human beings with feelings.
One of the things that bewilders me is this – do these people not know how long term relationships actually work? You have to compromise. You don’t always get your way. You have to actually work at maintaining the relationship. You have to accommodate the other person’s needs and wants. The other person is sometimes going to be in a bad mood, and sometimes you will be. There will be tough times, disagreements, financial struggles and so on. And yes, sometimes after a long period of work, you have to accept that it isn’t working out and have to end it despite working hard to maintain it. It sucks, but that’s how romance works.
There’s certainly the issue of being presented as a commodity, but in my view sexbots might be useful for feminists – after all, if a man doesn’t want to do those things a relationship entails, maybe a sexbot is for him. That way, he gets what he wants, women can then develop relationships with other real human beings who are actually willing to put in the work, and in theory everyone’s happy. But of course, that isn’t the point. The point is that women in general and feminists in particular are supposed to panic and start behaving closer to these men’s preferences at the ‘threat’ of having said men taken away from them. People like this don’t actually want to hear “Oh, you want to go your own way? Okay, that’s cool, I respect your life choices and see them as legitimate and valid, you do you dude.” That’s not the reaction they want – the reaction they want is “Oh my God, no! Don’t go, I’ll do anything, and I do mean anything!”
@Hipster: Please for the love of everything I hold holy, do NOT embed videos of Roosh’s without some kind of warning next time. I don’t want to give him views or have to clear his garbage out of my history.