So the fellas over on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit are having a little debate, of sorts. What unappealing inanimate object is the best metaphor for women over the dreaded age of 30? You know, elderly women.
Someone calling himself mlpl2015 goes with an old favorite: spoiled milk.
As the old joke goes:
“The food there is terrible! And such small portions!”
Joblessguy10, mlpl2015’s main opponent in this makeshift debate, goes with a fairly shopworn metaphor himself, declaring that “older” women are like used cars, depreciating by the day. But he weirds it up with some graphic sexual details. And some racism.
![joblessguy10 24 points 2 days ago Or, to compare women as objects, buying a 2005 model year Mercedes Benz S Class with wear and tear, gonnorhea stains in the back, and cum on the steering wheel, and 150K miles for the price of a fresh off the line 2016 Mercedes Benz S Class with 0 miles and 0 wear and tear. Also, Mercedes--both the car and the woman--has a low resale value and suffer depreciation. A woman will get fucked and cummed in, gets old, and comes to you. One day, in bed, she'll crave Tyrone's 13" cock. Would you allow yourself to pay even half price for a woman that's 30 and had a blast in her past? One of the reasons why I go MGTOW is because if the woman isn't attractive and fresh/very low mileage, there is no point paying for such a woman anyway. What does she have to offer you? And even if you get such am attractive woman, she's going to control your life, cheat on you, and then financially rape you. By the way, a woman doesn't have to be attractive to treat you like shit. Average looking and even fat women think they're worth full price. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. permalinksavereportgive goldreply [–]AmlanceJockey 19 points 2 days ago Also, there are two kids in the back. permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]cagethepepper 13 points 1 day ago Tyrone is in the trunk.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tyronetrunk.png?resize=500%2C546&ssl=1)
I’ll get to the racism in a second, but my first question is: How exactly is joblessguy10 going to be paying for his brand-new Mercedes when he doesn’t have a job?
And on the metaphor itself: why is a car having sex with dudes (including the one it has stored inside of its own car body) instead of having sex with other cars, like normal cars do!
And just how bad does someone’s gonorrhea have to be that they are leaving visible stains on the upholstery? Have you guys accidentally mixed up “sex” with “David Cronenberg movies?”
Ok, the racism. Why are so many of these manosphere dudes so obsessed with the specter of hypersexualized black men with giant dicks having sex with “their” women? And then talking about this creepy fetishized fear online in a way that exposes their terror at their own perceived (or possibly quite real) sexual inadequacies?
Are fears of “race cuckolding’ really this widespread? Or is it just that the guys posting about “Tyrone” and his 13-inch cock on MGTOW message boards are the same guys who are yelling about “cuckservatives” on Twitter and The Daily Stormer?
I don’t know. I think I’m going to go watch an old David Cronenberg movie. Compared to these dudes, the man who’s been called “the King of Venereal Horror” has a subtle and healthy view of female sexuality.
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@GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina
it’s a negotiation ploy where the MGTOWpians make the crucial mistake of failing to understand how little leverage they have
Well put.
There they are, angry, hateful losers who feel threatened by any woman who isn’t a virginal doormat or an indulgent mommy figure, shouting into the aether: “Women! If you don’t behave yourselves, you can’t have ME!!”
*crickets*
“Bitches.”
I am an teenage girl who just recently discovered the manosphere in the process of debunking a factoid my older brother related about women committing more DV than men.
I have, frankly, been horrified by what I have seen on these websites. On Avoiceformen Paul Elam, in recounting the myth of Medusa, describes here rape as “self enamored and struck with the power of her sexual allure.” On the redpill Women are regularly described as less than human. “Hypergamous sluts” with, essentially, no higher cognitive function. Capable, only, of acting on base animal instincts.
And, as you know, these are the mildest types of bigotry targeted at women in the manosphere. When not casually suggesting that women are incapable of love, they’re calling outright for the removal of women’s right to vote, work outside the house, or control their own bodies, (I’m not just referring to abortion. I have seen many comments where they were suggesting women should not have the right to say “no.” And the worst part was no one was disagreeing with them. No one told them they were a psychopathic monster for wanting that.)
But I also found the blog and other sites like it, where people do disagree. Where people point out that, if you think it’s okay to sleep with any woman once she turns 12, then you’re a pedophile and would-be child rapist. Where people point out that, if you think the most important thing for a nation to do is “control its pussy suply,” then you’re a psychopathic monster and a would-be rapist.
I am, therefore, grateful to you, David Futrelle, in particular, and sites like this in general for restoring much of the faith in humanity that I lost after discovering sites like the redpill subreddit, returnofthekings, the rationale male, and avoiceformen.
It’s still terrifying and creepy that these sites even exist. But at least I can take solace in the fact that they are a tiny minority. And in the fact that that tiny, (but extremely loud), minority faces confrontation from sites like this.
So to anyone who has ever confronted (especially, if it was in the form of mockery) a member of the manosphere, thank you.
Marquerite, I’m so sorry you’ve been introduced to hate groups at such a young age. I’m glad, however, that you’re smart and curious and were able to debunk all of this inane horseshit on your own. I don’t know if I would have been so smart and capable at your age.
I admit I might have been vulnerable to this as a teenager. I watched TheAmazingAthiest for a while and looking back, I’m appalled.
First off, hats off to the teenager a little further up. Anyone seeking to be informed at a young age is a good thing.
Now, we get to the hard part for me, not because of any issues with women or minorities but because of age. For both genders fairly young by today’s standards are *far* better than old when it comes to a permanent relationship. Which is why the smart ones all got married fairly young (by today’s standards that’s 25-27 or so). You get to experience joint firsts (once you’ve had most things in your life on your own or with someone else there’s very little in a relationship to be built, its why late in life marriages are just “I don’t want to die and not be found for years” insurance), there are considerable financial advantages (as long as its after any education/job training) as two incomes/one housing cost is one of the biggest money multipliers you can get. Although the age point isn’t until after 30 (which is still mostly prime in life time) it does exist (and I find the “age is just a number” talk in general to be completely ridiculous).
And, for what its worth, I’m not a hypocrite, as at my age (36), most opportunities at happiness are pretty much over and the main goal in finding a relationship is avoiding a fate worse than death as any marriage at this point would be a joke.
RosaDeLava-
The dick size thing is fascinating, because the universality of straight cis men’s obsession with it despite it not being as big of a thing for women really gets to the heart of the matter about how a lot of this toxic masculinity that is supposedly for women is really about homosocial posturing and ways to measure supposed “masculinity” against each other.
I mean, there’s all these (often racist) ramblings about the importance of big dicks and reiterating racist stereotypes of black men having bigger dicks and thus being more sexual or masculine naturally which gives them an “unfair” advantage that only properly cordoning off the races or “purity” will dispel.
But it’s also about the dick measuring literally as a stand-in for masculinity and thus in their minds success. But most women don’t want a large dick. Those often hurt or make certain acts impossible. I mean, some like the feeling of being filled or having a part of them “destroyed” and have that fetish, but many more have physical limitations. But no matter how many times women say that, the myth continues that women like big dicks, because otherwise all these straight men are just comparing dicks with each other and that would “look gay”.
Ellesar and dhag and others-
Yeah, it’s really clear that the age fetish is half creating a myth about a fictional ticking biological clock in order to trick women into believing sexist myths that one needs to give up their life and marry literally anyone or else you will be considered “damaged goods” and never find a mate as an abuse tactic to stunt gains for women.
And half about fetishizing child molestation and “innocence” which really just means, targeting virgins and other people who are ignorant about how sex works because then they won’t have anything to compare it to and might believe the asshole who claims that it should be one-sided, unsatisfying, often painful, and reiterating porn cliches. Said women might also have less dating experience and so may be more likely to believe that abusive dynamics are their fault for not “trying hard enough” and be more easily bullied into specific acts they don’t want.
People with experience, who know what a good relationship looks like and what good sex looks like and may have a few scars about previous assholes are going to often be far less likely to take their shit and recognize their abusive shit for what it is.
So yeah, 2/3 abuse, 1/3 straight up justifications for child molestation.
Speaking of dick seizes, it reminds me of a thing i once heard on the radio, some guy once knew another guy who in crafts (is that right? idk) in school had made himself a 2 meter long wooden dick, which apparently was very well made and detailed.
Now, what they and i too wonder here is; How would you even use a dildo that long? You would have to have an assistant helping putting it in where ever. It would a long-distance relationship.
DodoHunter – forgive yourself!
I watched a few AA videos a few years ago, until I realised that he didn’t talk much about atheism, but he shouted a lot about how crap women are. He is one of the most unpleasant people I have seen on youtube, and it was a real eyeopener into the misogyny of some atheist men.
Well, if you have an attitude like that, you’ll probably end up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, because who’s going to want to marry anyone who thinks that “marriage at this point would be a joke”? What’s in it for them?
On the other hand, I was 34 when I met my wife and 35 when we got married (she was a few months short of 37 at the ceremony), and can attest from personal experience that this is nonsense: the last thirteen years have been the best of my life, and by a very long way. But that’s because we ignored all the bullshit and focused on what makes us happy – with an emphasis on the first person plural.
And I know plenty of people who waited even longer before getting spliced, and whose marriages are just as successful. I suspect most of us do.
*immature giggling*
Meh, they say spoiled milk, I say delicious, matured cheese. Maybe yoghurt.
As for the Tyrone thing. I actually did have a black fre-quantaince (less than a friend, more than an acquaintance) who was genuinely, as in on the birth certificate, called Tyrone. But that was the only thing that was stereotypical about him! I’d be very surprised if he were in anyone’s trunk, but if he were, it would have been as the result of a cracker of an adventure.
@this handle is a test
Whoa! Not at all. Why do you think that way? Why on earth are opportunities for happiness ever over?
Both of my parents remarried well after age 40, to people who were also well over 40. Both marriages are extremely happy.
One of the happiest marriages I know was between a couple who were already past eighty when they met (in both cases, their former spouses had died). It lasted nearly a decade before one of them died, and by all accounts it was absolutely blissful – by that stage in life you’re pretty certain of what you want!
But this also applies to getting married in your thirties. I’m very very glad indeed that I didn’t get married any younger – I simply wouldn’t have been ready for it, and my wife did get married in her early twenties and it was an absolute disaster whose only saving grace was that she never had any kids back then. Basically, they were too young, too immature, and too credulous – in that both believed that getting married would somehow solidify a pretty rocky relationship, only to discover that the exact opposite was true.
By contrast, when you reach your thirties and have several relationships of varying levels of success behind you, you’ll have a much clearer idea of what you want and a much more realistic prospect of actually getting it. But you do need to scour your brain to remove all this MGTOW bullshit first, because not only is it absolutely untrue but it actively hinders your chances of achieving lasting happiness.
Since The Amazing Atheist has been brought up:
When I first starting hanging out on the internet, I was mostly involved in atheism and skepticism (in the narrow sense, i.e. doubting alien adbuction stories and Bigfoot sightings). I know there’s at least some overlap between the commentariat here and that of Pharyngula or FTB in general, so I know this isn’t unique in any way. But I was actually not very interested in social justice issues at that point.
I was never homophobic and I never came close to the level of misogyny we see in the MRM (didn’t know they existed), but I was definitely susceptible to Maherism (smugly announcing your own viewpoint as common sense or FACT, no matter how uneducated one is on the subject – often seen coupled with a newfound feeling of having figured everything out, e.g. “I’m right about god not existing, so I’m probably right about everything else too”).
So, in those days I spent a lot of time on the JREF forums. I read a lot of Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens (the first two I now have zero respect for, and the latter I’ve since become hugely disappointed with on certain issues). I also enjoyed Penn & Teller, and probably many others I can’t remember right now.
It was only because of the “deep rifts” in the atheism movement that I really became interested in feminism and other social justice issues. I was one of those people who simply assumed since we’re all atheists we’re probably also fairly open minded, left leaning people. The insights I came to from being disgusted with the misogynist and racist atheists, and simultaneously reading/listening to progressive atheists, have completely transformed me as a person. Many of the values and ideas which are central to my everyday life and personality now were entirely absent in my brain about 6 or 7 years ago. I don’t even feel like the same person anymore.
If I hadn’t been interested in skepticism and atheism when I was younger, I don’t know that I would’ve been introduced to feminism and other social justice issues in a way that I could understand. In fact, I only found this blog because Pharyngula would sometimes link to it. I’m hugely grateful for the prominent atheists who helped me figure some of these things out, even these days when I’m no longer very interested in atheism as a community. I don’t have a habit of writing fan mail, but if I did, I would be sending some of those emails to Jen McCreight, Greta Christina, PZ Myers, Tracie Harris, Rebecca Watson, Heina Dadabhoy and many many more.
And most of the regular commenters here are amazing too.
I’m 48, never been married…and still, stupidly, haven’t given up hope of finding someone (male) who is not a fate worse than death. Not altogether, anyhow. This site is helping me figure out what to avoid. Thankfully, most guys are NOT that asinine. These are just some of the more texbook (or egregious) cases.
Also, “dick seizes” made me giggle like a loon on the lake, too. Wasn’t there recently a stupid crook (white) who accidentally shot his dick off and blamed it on a black guy? Seems to me that’s been in the news lately, if anyone wants to look it up. He hasn’t yet gotten his story straight, either.
Anyhow, all that said — hi, Marquerite, feel free to pull up a hard chair (which is misandry!), and click on the scented candle on the right sidebar, near the bottom, where there’s a welcome package awaiting.
Whoops…where did the scented candle go? And when did it disappear? Anyhow, welcome aboard!
I prefer to think of myself as sweetened condensed milk, ready to be blended into a delightful latte … that can also break your spine.
@This Handle – While I definitely recognize that these metrics vary across locations and demographics…dude – you’re 36.
For soooo many people where I live, that’s on the early end of settling down age.
My great-uncle had a wonderful relationship with a woman he’d first met as a young man. Then they had married other people, who eventually died; they met again in their 80s and at that point were completely gaga over each other. They already had kids and a good support system, they just got together because they were in love and it made them both happy.
In fact, the happier marriages I’ve seen tend to be between people who marry older, as they’ve already grown into themselves, are smart enough to know what they want, generally have some financial stability and are really *ready* for it. They take time to be with each other and enjoy each other’s company in quiet little ways.
Sorry for the delay in responding to people, my Dad came over and I didn’t have the time to get to anyone.
Before we begin I want to clear something up: Just because I half agree with MGTOW on age (they seem to think that men are exempt from this, I feel that men are just as effected) does *NOT* mean I am one. I think that if serious (unlikely since shouldn’t they, you know, go their own way by now) they are either cutting off their nose to spite their face (if serious about leaving relationships behind, they ensure less money and a shorter life-span) or ineffectual bigots (if using it as a half-assed Lysistrata gambit to get people to go along with their hatred of women and minorities).
Now, on to the arguments: Generally the early 20s is too early but by 25 everything should be fine as in 90% of cases you’ve finished up any job training, by 25 you should be close to as mature as you are going to get (the idea of delayed maturity was a ploy by baby-boomers to delay their economic competition…there is a reason that most of the recent Fortune 500 companies created were by 20-somethings). This gives you the opportunity to experience a lot more together (by the time you meet at 45 you’ve already had most of your big experiences and the relationship is considerably lessened). You get all the decline none of the peak (peak years biologically are 25-35) so who cares by that point.
However, reaching old age alone is truly a fate worse than death for men (the character of women’s friendships keep it from being that for women, but men are completely incapable of these types of friendships) so I’m still looking and will almost certainly take whichever woman will have me (so, rather than being a MGTOW I’m a Man Who Will Accept Anything or MWWAA).
I have undoubtably lost whatever respect I had from people here but to quote Stephen Dillane play Thomas Jefferson in the John Adams miniseries “It is what I believe”.
Also…in an immature note: does a dick seize hurt?
That made zero sense. Good night.
This Handle is a Test,
I don’t think anyone else cares whether or not you want to get married. But why would you care what other people do? If people say they’re in a happy marriage, who are you to tell them different?
Besides, what about all the same sex couples that were only legally allowed to marry recently is some places and still aren’t allowed in others. Was it pointless for those couple who were forced to wait to marry now?
Or what about this acquaintance I know who got married young but her husband died. I believe she’s in early thirties now. Should she never be allowed to remarry if she meets someone else because she had her chance and blew it by being dumb enough to marry someone who would later get cancer?
Or what about people who were in an abusive first marriage and meet someone great later. No second chances for them? If they want to be married, they should just stay with their abusers?
It just seems like you have this weird hang up that is causing you to make sweeping generalizations that don’t have any facts backing them up and just make no sense.
why are they so angry at the fact that women get ”fcked” and have dirty sex before them? As if sex makes them somehow evil, dirty and used…
Jarnsaxa, that’s lovely 🙂
My brother’s(*) mother sadly passed away a few years ago from breast cancer, and his father eventually remarried a lovely older lady, with the entire family’s blessing. Not that they needed it, but it’s nice to be celebrated, no?
So my brother is going up north shortly to visit his brand NEW brother, who has come as a wee bit of a surprise given the ages involved. We, the ‘children’, are in our forties so that’s one hell of an age gap between my brother and his brother, but it also means lots of adults around to assist, which has its own benefits.
(*) Our family is complex!
Dear This Handle Is A Test, please don’t marry just anyone. That rarely ever works out well. It is way, way worse to be unhappy in a bad marriage than it is to be unhappy alone. (This is a lesson I learned way too well.)
You are only 36. Take some ballroom dance classes (they are full of women). Volunteer with a dog or cat rescue (also, full of women). If there aren’t any single ones, they will fix you up with their single friends. It is not hard to find single people. It might be hard to find the right single person, but it is worth the effort.