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MGTOW debate: Are older women spoiled milk, or gonorrhea-stained used cars?

This kitty just drank a woman over the age of 30
This kitty just drank a woman over the age of 30

So the fellas over on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit are having a little debate, of sorts. What unappealing inanimate object is the best metaphor for women over the dreaded age of 30? You know, elderly women.

Someone calling himself mlpl2015 goes with an old favorite: spoiled milk.

TheoryMGTOW Showerthought: "Marrying a woman in her 30s is like paying full price for a near empty bottle of rotting milk. The rest of the milk was consumed by various unknown individuals when the milk was fresh. The kicker? They did not have to pay a cent for any of it."As the old joke goes:

“The food there is terrible! And such small portions!”

Joblessguy10, mlpl2015’s main opponent in this makeshift debate, goes with a fairly shopworn metaphor himself, declaring that “older” women are like used cars, depreciating by the day. But he weirds it up with some graphic sexual details. And some racism.

joblessguy10 24 points 2 days ago Or, to compare women as objects, buying a 2005 model year Mercedes Benz S Class with wear and tear, gonnorhea stains in the back, and cum on the steering wheel, and 150K miles for the price of a fresh off the line 2016 Mercedes Benz S Class with 0 miles and 0 wear and tear. Also, Mercedes--both the car and the woman--has a low resale value and suffer depreciation. A woman will get fucked and cummed in, gets old, and comes to you. One day, in bed, she'll crave Tyrone's 13" cock. Would you allow yourself to pay even half price for a woman that's 30 and had a blast in her past? One of the reasons why I go MGTOW is because if the woman isn't attractive and fresh/very low mileage, there is no point paying for such a woman anyway. What does she have to offer you? And even if you get such am attractive woman, she's going to control your life, cheat on you, and then financially rape you. By the way, a woman doesn't have to be attractive to treat you like shit. Average looking and even fat women think they're worth full price. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. permalinksavereportgive goldreply [–]AmlanceJockey 19 points 2 days ago Also, there are two kids in the back. permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]cagethepepper 13 points 1 day ago Tyrone is in the trunk.

I’ll get to the racism in a second, but my first question is: How exactly is joblessguy10 going to be paying for his brand-new Mercedes when he doesn’t have a job?

And on the metaphor itself: why is a car having sex with dudes (including the one it has stored inside of its own car body) instead of having sex with other cars, like normal cars do!

And just how bad does someone’s gonorrhea have to be that they are leaving visible stains on the upholstery? Have you guys accidentally mixed up “sex” with “David Cronenberg movies?”

Ok, the racism. Why are so many of these manosphere dudes so obsessed with the specter of hypersexualized black men with giant dicks having sex with “their” women? And then talking about this creepy fetishized fear online in a way that exposes their terror at their own perceived (or possibly quite real) sexual inadequacies?

Are fears of “race cuckolding’ really this widespread? Or is it just that the guys posting about “Tyrone” and his 13-inch cock on MGTOW message boards are the same guys who are yelling about “cuckservatives” on Twitter and The Daily Stormer?

I don’t know. I think I’m going to go watch an old David Cronenberg movie. Compared to these dudes, the man who’s been called “the King of Venereal Horror” has a subtle and healthy view of female sexuality.

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Robert
Robert
5 years ago

The persistent ideation of women as something to be purchased is revolting enough on its own.

Add in the squeamishness about sexual contact with a woman who is not a virgin, may have had children and the racist cuckoldry obsession and I become convinced that these men must be magazines ’cause they have issues. And nobody needs to subscribe.

I know there are gay men who are conflicted about their sexuality (Jack Donavon, g0ys, Log Cabineers) but these MRAs seem truly tormented by simultaneously being attracted to/repulsed by The Other. Curious thing is, not all straight men seem to have that problem, but it is an MRA article of faith that they do.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
5 years ago

“Someone needs to call AAA and have that entire metaphor towed.”

Please don’t, I hear enough horror stories of the calls they get as it is (my mother works their phones). They do now tow motorcycles, yes, even the three wheeled ones, but I’m fairly sure metaphors lack the parts required for even a flatbed tow.

On topic-ish: yeah I’m not seeing 13″ going into a vagina comfortably. Up the rear entrance, sure, but as somebody else sorta mentioned 8″ seems to be about the limit for comfortable vaginal penetration. Of course, it really is in how you use it, so maybe 13″ would be better than their utter inability to grasp that vaginas are more than a warm hole for them to stick it in all willy nilly! I mean, any partner who gives a flying fuck about your pleasure is going to trump one who only cares about…whatever these guys actually care about. I’ve yet to actually figure that out. Pretty sure it’s selfish though, and the only way sexual acts where you only care about your own pleasure actually count as “good sex” is if you’re having said sex with yourself.

I’ve gotten way off topic, I guess some things never change!

Tessa
5 years ago

Paradoxical Intention:

When a vagina is aroused, it expands in expectation of getting a D (Yes, even if you are having sex with another vagina owner). It also gets extremely wet, to create a natural lube. If it’s still tight when a D is put in, the owner of that D didn’t do a good enough job of arousing the person with the V.

(I apologize in advance for being a little mean, but this whole bit really rubbed me the wrong way.)
First, just say penis… Saying “The D” makes you sound like one of those douchey highschool or frat boys “Hur hur she wants the D.” Ugh.

Second, I disagree. The arousal is a physical response to with no actual “intent” so suggesting it’s in preparation for or in “expectation of” anything specific is inaccurate and leaning towards “this is the ‘right’ way to have sex.”

Unrelated to that post, but it really doesn’t matter how long a sex toy is, It’s only going to fit to a certain point no matter what, the real question is diameter.

misseb47
5 years ago

RosaDeLava-I know, right! it would be like having the entire length of a 30cm ruler (plus some) shoved inside. Do these guys know that the average penis length is actually about 5-6 inches and that having an 13 inch penis isn’t a good thing?

misseb47
5 years ago

I really love being compared to a mindless object!!! /sarc Of course these guys would say that women are not being objectified. Well guys, comparing women to old second hand cars and old milk IS objectification! I find it sickening that women are routinely compared to objects (and never in a positive way) simply for being women+not being immortal. While it is perfectly ok for these guys to age (and 30 is NOT aged, far from it actually) it is not ok for women to age, even though there is no way anyone can avoid it. These guys are such hypocrites.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Alright, I was wrong.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

As a stereotypically black name, Tyrone seems a little weirdly 1975. The only Tyrone I’ve ever met was white and Irish.

Re: the car analogy, the thing is, a car’s condition depends on how well its owner takes care of it, not on anything the car itself does. Cars need gas, regular oil changes, maintenance, cleaning, decent roads, and a temperate climate to run their best. They also need to be driven regularly. You can’t just stash a car unused in a garage for six months, then take it out without warming it up for a hard 100mph joyride over cobblestones, then stick it back in the garage again for another six months. And, like the relationships they’re so against, cars cost ongoing money to maintain, including insurance, inspection, and annual excise tax.

All of those requirements hold whether the car is brand new or pre-owned, whether a woman is young or old. You don’t put time and money into a car/relationship because it’s a great investment (although cohabiting can be very beneficial financially for both parties). You put time and money into a car/relationship because it will take you places you need to go. If you think a vehicle is too “used”, then don’t buy the damn thing, but also don’t walk into a Mercedes dealership brandishing two dented bottle caps you found on the street and get all fratchy when that doesn’t buy you a brand new S class model. SMV works both ways.

both the car and the woman — has a low resale value and depreciates.

Wait, is he posting his wife on eBay or something? What is this “resale” fuckery?

sbel
sbel
5 years ago

The “Tyrone” thing is easy to explain. They obviously don’t know any actual black men, so they have no idea what names are common among African Americans.

Or… Tyrone is the name of the 1 “black friend” they always mention when they say anything racist. Since “those people” are all alike, they naturally just assume that all black men are named Tyrone. (Or maybe they think he’s personally cuckolding all of them?)

;-p

Shaenon
5 years ago

Vaginas are designed to accommodate babies, who have heads 13-14 inches around. The idea that any human penis is large enough to permanently stretch any human vagina out of shape is possibly flattering to some penis-owners, but unlikely.

If these guys get their virginal young wife, what are they going to do when she finally turns 30? She’ll be all old and gross, not to mention spoiled by having had sex. No way will the dealer at the used woman lot accept a favorable trade-in.

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

You all laugh know but when the cootie epidemic breaks out you will all be sorry.

justlikeheaven
justlikeheaven
5 years ago

For the article itself 13 inches is like the size of a macbook. If you had one that would cause bloodflow problems and probably couldnt even get erect.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Or… Tyrone is the name of the 1 “black friend” they always mention when they say anything racist. Since “those people” are all alike, they naturally just assume that all black men are named Tyrone. (Or maybe they think he’s personally cuckolding all of them?)

Well, I suppose it would make sense that black guys would only be willing to put up with the blatant bigotry of these tools if they were interested in spending some quality time with these dude’s lady friends. So it wouldn’t be inconceivable that these “black friends” are also the ones cuckholding the ignorant white misogynists, because otherwise black men want nothing to do with the shitshow that these guys embody.

promisedlandpastor
5 years ago

I think where this comes from is porn culture. There is an EXTREMELY widespread idea in the pornosphere (if I can coin a term…or if it hasn’t already been coined) of black men “cucking” (short for cuckolding) putzy white businessmen. It’s total blacksploitation because it hits race stereotypes on several levels:

1. the white man is a busy workaholic who fritters away his days earning money to “pay for” his stay-at-home-bombshell wife
2. this stay-at-home wife (and I’m not slamming moms who are homemakers. My mother was a homemaker and was extremely helpful in my education and formation as a conscientious adult, so respect where it’s due) is rather overtly disgusted and fed up with white boy hubby’s teeny weeny peeny
3. the black man is typically nameless and just shows up and lays in to the woman, effectively reducing the black man to nothing more than a turgid penis and some grunting, which is exactly where some of these goons want to place all black people (and really any person of color): a grunting, sex-crazed savage who needs to be shipped off to prison or back to [insert country of origin here].
4. invariably the black man has a penis that is well beyond normal size, and often it looks as if they have been pumped or similarly mechanically enhanced, which hits the “black men have bigger dicks so whites are all inferior and the women are going to abandon white men if we don’t do something about it” trope/meme.
5. the woman is typically extremely domineering (MGTOWs and MRAs would, I’m sure, call them either of two words starting with b: one rhymes with switch and the other is, of course, bundtcake! <3)
6. the white man is completely powerless to stop this scene that is unfolding. Never does the white guy call the police, punch the guy off of his wife, or put up more than the most half-hearted effort to stop it.

If I am correct in my assessment, then it's really interesting to think about this: these guys are formulating this idea about black men cuckolding their women from porn videos they are watching wherein they presumably find sexual arousal and climax from watching a black man take a white woman. Freud would have a field day with that analysis.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

This conversation reminds me of a time back in the Usenet era when someone took one of those pyramid scam posts and replaced the constant references to dollars with “inches of penis”. The end result was both hilariously surreal and a perfect metaphor for how penis length really is considered a currency in certain male circles.

As the owner of a penis that falls some considerable distance short of thirteen inches, all I can say is that I’ve never had any complaints. And the last time I had sex with someone under 35 was way back in 1989 – once I tried one highly experienced sexual partner who truly knew what she was doing and could articulate precisely what she wanted in return, there wasn’t much incentive to go back.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

once I tried one highly experienced sexual partner who truly knew what she was doing and could articulate precisely what she wanted in return, there wasn’t much incentive to go back.

Too true.

In my experience, there’s a strong correlation between people who are good at reading my body and making me feel good, and between people who know what works for them and what doesn’t (and will tell me if something doesn’t work for them.) This is why it’s always so odd for me to hear about PUAs obsessing over inexperienced people. Guys, do you not actually want good sex?

Like with penis length, however, the answer is that they don’t want good sex: they want to win the competition with other men. These are the yardsticks of masculinity, like a peacock tail; and just like a peacock’s tail, enlarging it to the point where it’s actively a hindrance makes them feel that they’ve won somehow.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Off topic but on the subject of toxic masculinity: I was reading about the Waffen-SS and came upon a lovely little passage about sexuality in that organisation.

Naturally, homosexuality within the Waffen-SS was illicit. Before 1941 soldiers found to be gay were dismissed; after the Soviet campaign began and manpower became in short supply, having a gay past was no longer punished but acts of homosexuality with other soldiers were punishable with death. However, this sentence would be annulled if the soldier’s comrades testified as to their courage in battle; not as a pragmatic measure to retain good soldiers, but under the assumption that anyone manly enough to be good at fighting could not possibly be gay, and therefore the charges must be false.

Oh, those wacky Nazis.

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

The SS had never heard of the Sacred Band of Thebes?

dhag85
5 years ago

Gasp!

For some reason I always thought the “Tyrone” meme came from the Chappelle Show sketch “Mad Real World”, in which one white guy participates in a reality show where every other contestant is a black stereotype. I think the backstory to this sketch was Chappelle’s observation that reality shows often have a single black contestant who has to put up with constant casual racism and eventually appears to act irrationally when under extreme pressure.

The well meaning white guy in the sketch tries his best to get along with the other contestants, but the hostility gradually escalates. The biggest bully in the sketch is played by Charlie Murphy, who also has sex with the white guy’s girlfriend when she comes to visit. In my mind, Murphy’s character was called Tyrone. After having googled, I now know his name was really “Tyree”.

Tyrone is a completely different Chappelle character. :p

TheLulzWatch
TheLulzWatch
5 years ago

“How exactly is joblessguy10 going to be paying for his brand-new Mercedes when he doesn’t have a job?”

Easy, he is a welfare king, an expert @ milking the system and/or relatives.

“And on the metaphor itself: why is a car having sex with dudes (including the one it has stored inside of its own car body) instead of having sex with other cars, like normal cars do!”

Do you really want to know the answer to that? -D

Yah, that could make a great horror Movie plot, a perverted monsanto CEO tricks MGTOWs into taking a drug claiming it increase penis size but he infact infecting them with parasites that causes hideous body mutations.
The evil sex plot eventually fails miserably because the MGTOWs and PUAs don´t get anywhere as much as they claim they get (even with women over 30) while cars and blow dolls can´t get infected.

Oops!
Oops!
5 years ago

“Are fears of “race cuckolding’ really this widespread?”

Yes. if you read up on their widely held beliefs about women and hypergamy, it makes sense. It makes them feel better to believe whenever they see a white woman with a black man that she’s only after the BBC and will get hers in the end for not choosing a decent white guy when she’s abused and left with a bunch of kids. Its also a chance to air their racist views at the same time (note the 2 kids in the back, he’s hiding in the trunk comments) Which are often as strong as their misogynistic ones. A lot of these guys think of themselves as identifying with right wing traditionalists (who had the whole oppressing women thing right, of course) and there’s no shortage of racism over there .

But promisedlandpastor said it better than me. 🙂

TheLulzWatch
TheLulzWatch
5 years ago

“not as a pragmatic measure to retain good soldiers,”

Yes, the whacky notion that soliders that actually saw the soldier in combat actually know the f*** they are talking about and that the bureaucrat away from the fighting does not.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

I just took a peek at the MGTOW thread under discussion, and thought I’d throw out this little gem from “BRBGTGBOWFLEX”:

I’ve slept with probably over 40 women. I stopped using my spreadsheet somewhere around 30 or so to keep count.

I wonder how many of those “over 40 women” came back for a second helping? Something tells me that you probably won’t need a spreadsheet to keep count.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

“BRBGTGBOWFLEX”? Someone’s sure not playing at hypermasculinity there.

And if he stopped using his spreadsheet at just “around 30” women, but still can estimate “over 40”, he’s not as hypermasculine as he wants his fellow morons to believe. I know any number of “swishy” gay guys who would look at that tally, and just sneer.

autosoma
5 years ago

These MGTOW guys are funny, I don’t really know where to start with how far from reality they are. I reckon if I’m a car it’s s ’66 Ford, body works a bit shabby, part need replacing and a bit hard to come by but a wash and a polish and it looks OK presentable and it can still storm down the motorway when it needs to, mind you its not very economical by modern standards. Mrs Autosoma still loves a drive in it weather it’s the daily run or a spin on the highway. Maybe if they had cars or partners they’d think differently, top gear and pornhub aren’t substitutes.

happy cat
happy cat
5 years ago

Then when a woman mentions having a rich boyfriend, those guys go all “women are so shallow, they believe men are like ATMs or big cars…”

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
5 years ago

@GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

it’s a negotiation ploy where the MGTOWpians make the crucial mistake of failing to understand how little leverage they have

Well put.

There they are, angry, hateful losers who feel threatened by any woman who isn’t a virginal doormat or an indulgent mommy figure, shouting into the aether: “Women! If you don’t behave yourselves, you can’t have ME!!”

*crickets*

“Bitches.”

Marquerite
Marquerite
5 years ago

I am an teenage girl who just recently discovered the manosphere in the process of debunking a factoid my older brother related about women committing more DV than men.
I have, frankly, been horrified by what I have seen on these websites. On Avoiceformen Paul Elam, in recounting the myth of Medusa, describes here rape as “self enamored and struck with the power of her sexual allure.” On the redpill Women are regularly described as less than human. “Hypergamous sluts” with, essentially, no higher cognitive function. Capable, only, of acting on base animal instincts.
And, as you know, these are the mildest types of bigotry targeted at women in the manosphere. When not casually suggesting that women are incapable of love, they’re calling outright for the removal of women’s right to vote, work outside the house, or control their own bodies, (I’m not just referring to abortion. I have seen many comments where they were suggesting women should not have the right to say “no.” And the worst part was no one was disagreeing with them. No one told them they were a psychopathic monster for wanting that.)
But I also found the blog and other sites like it, where people do disagree. Where people point out that, if you think it’s okay to sleep with any woman once she turns 12, then you’re a pedophile and would-be child rapist. Where people point out that, if you think the most important thing for a nation to do is “control its pussy suply,” then you’re a psychopathic monster and a would-be rapist.
I am, therefore, grateful to you, David Futrelle, in particular, and sites like this in general for restoring much of the faith in humanity that I lost after discovering sites like the redpill subreddit, returnofthekings, the rationale male, and avoiceformen.
It’s still terrifying and creepy that these sites even exist. But at least I can take solace in the fact that they are a tiny minority. And in the fact that that tiny, (but extremely loud), minority faces confrontation from sites like this.
So to anyone who has ever confronted (especially, if it was in the form of mockery) a member of the manosphere, thank you.

scribbles
scribbles
5 years ago

Marquerite, I’m so sorry you’ve been introduced to hate groups at such a young age. I’m glad, however, that you’re smart and curious and were able to debunk all of this inane horseshit on your own. I don’t know if I would have been so smart and capable at your age.

DodoHunter
DodoHunter
5 years ago

I admit I might have been vulnerable to this as a teenager. I watched TheAmazingAthiest for a while and looking back, I’m appalled.

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
5 years ago

First off, hats off to the teenager a little further up. Anyone seeking to be informed at a young age is a good thing.

Now, we get to the hard part for me, not because of any issues with women or minorities but because of age. For both genders fairly young by today’s standards are *far* better than old when it comes to a permanent relationship. Which is why the smart ones all got married fairly young (by today’s standards that’s 25-27 or so). You get to experience joint firsts (once you’ve had most things in your life on your own or with someone else there’s very little in a relationship to be built, its why late in life marriages are just “I don’t want to die and not be found for years” insurance), there are considerable financial advantages (as long as its after any education/job training) as two incomes/one housing cost is one of the biggest money multipliers you can get. Although the age point isn’t until after 30 (which is still mostly prime in life time) it does exist (and I find the “age is just a number” talk in general to be completely ridiculous).

And, for what its worth, I’m not a hypocrite, as at my age (36), most opportunities at happiness are pretty much over and the main goal in finding a relationship is avoiding a fate worse than death as any marriage at this point would be a joke.

Cerberus
Cerberus
5 years ago

RosaDeLava-

The dick size thing is fascinating, because the universality of straight cis men’s obsession with it despite it not being as big of a thing for women really gets to the heart of the matter about how a lot of this toxic masculinity that is supposedly for women is really about homosocial posturing and ways to measure supposed “masculinity” against each other.

I mean, there’s all these (often racist) ramblings about the importance of big dicks and reiterating racist stereotypes of black men having bigger dicks and thus being more sexual or masculine naturally which gives them an “unfair” advantage that only properly cordoning off the races or “purity” will dispel.

But it’s also about the dick measuring literally as a stand-in for masculinity and thus in their minds success. But most women don’t want a large dick. Those often hurt or make certain acts impossible. I mean, some like the feeling of being filled or having a part of them “destroyed” and have that fetish, but many more have physical limitations. But no matter how many times women say that, the myth continues that women like big dicks, because otherwise all these straight men are just comparing dicks with each other and that would “look gay”.

Ellesar and dhag and others-

Yeah, it’s really clear that the age fetish is half creating a myth about a fictional ticking biological clock in order to trick women into believing sexist myths that one needs to give up their life and marry literally anyone or else you will be considered “damaged goods” and never find a mate as an abuse tactic to stunt gains for women.

And half about fetishizing child molestation and “innocence” which really just means, targeting virgins and other people who are ignorant about how sex works because then they won’t have anything to compare it to and might believe the asshole who claims that it should be one-sided, unsatisfying, often painful, and reiterating porn cliches. Said women might also have less dating experience and so may be more likely to believe that abusive dynamics are their fault for not “trying hard enough” and be more easily bullied into specific acts they don’t want.

People with experience, who know what a good relationship looks like and what good sex looks like and may have a few scars about previous assholes are going to often be far less likely to take their shit and recognize their abusive shit for what it is.

So yeah, 2/3 abuse, 1/3 straight up justifications for child molestation.

spacelawn
5 years ago

Speaking of dick seizes, it reminds me of a thing i once heard on the radio, some guy once knew another guy who in crafts (is that right? idk) in school had made himself a 2 meter long wooden dick, which apparently was very well made and detailed.

Now, what they and i too wonder here is; How would you even use a dildo that long? You would have to have an assistant helping putting it in where ever. It would a long-distance relationship.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

DodoHunter – forgive yourself!

I watched a few AA videos a few years ago, until I realised that he didn’t talk much about atheism, but he shouted a lot about how crap women are. He is one of the most unpleasant people I have seen on youtube, and it was a real eyeopener into the misogyny of some atheist men.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

And, for what its worth, I’m not a hypocrite, as at my age (36), most opportunities at happiness are pretty much over and the main goal in finding a relationship is avoiding a fate worse than death as any marriage at this point would be a joke.

Well, if you have an attitude like that, you’ll probably end up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, because who’s going to want to marry anyone who thinks that “marriage at this point would be a joke”? What’s in it for them?

On the other hand, I was 34 when I met my wife and 35 when we got married (she was a few months short of 37 at the ceremony), and can attest from personal experience that this is nonsense: the last thirteen years have been the best of my life, and by a very long way. But that’s because we ignored all the bullshit and focused on what makes us happy – with an emphasis on the first person plural.

And I know plenty of people who waited even longer before getting spliced, and whose marriages are just as successful. I suspect most of us do.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Speaking of dick seizes …

*immature giggling*

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

Meh, they say spoiled milk, I say delicious, matured cheese. Maybe yoghurt.

As for the Tyrone thing. I actually did have a black fre-quantaince (less than a friend, more than an acquaintance) who was genuinely, as in on the birth certificate, called Tyrone. But that was the only thing that was stereotypical about him! I’d be very surprised if he were in anyone’s trunk, but if he were, it would have been as the result of a cracker of an adventure.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

@this handle is a test

And, for what its worth, I’m not a hypocrite, as at my age (36), most opportunities at happiness are pretty much over and the main goal in finding a relationship is avoiding a fate worse than death as any marriage at this point would be a joke.

Whoa! Not at all. Why do you think that way? Why on earth are opportunities for happiness ever over?

Both of my parents remarried well after age 40, to people who were also well over 40. Both marriages are extremely happy.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

One of the happiest marriages I know was between a couple who were already past eighty when they met (in both cases, their former spouses had died). It lasted nearly a decade before one of them died, and by all accounts it was absolutely blissful – by that stage in life you’re pretty certain of what you want!

But this also applies to getting married in your thirties. I’m very very glad indeed that I didn’t get married any younger – I simply wouldn’t have been ready for it, and my wife did get married in her early twenties and it was an absolute disaster whose only saving grace was that she never had any kids back then. Basically, they were too young, too immature, and too credulous – in that both believed that getting married would somehow solidify a pretty rocky relationship, only to discover that the exact opposite was true.

By contrast, when you reach your thirties and have several relationships of varying levels of success behind you, you’ll have a much clearer idea of what you want and a much more realistic prospect of actually getting it. But you do need to scour your brain to remove all this MGTOW bullshit first, because not only is it absolutely untrue but it actively hinders your chances of achieving lasting happiness.

dhag85
5 years ago

Since The Amazing Atheist has been brought up:

When I first starting hanging out on the internet, I was mostly involved in atheism and skepticism (in the narrow sense, i.e. doubting alien adbuction stories and Bigfoot sightings). I know there’s at least some overlap between the commentariat here and that of Pharyngula or FTB in general, so I know this isn’t unique in any way. But I was actually not very interested in social justice issues at that point.

I was never homophobic and I never came close to the level of misogyny we see in the MRM (didn’t know they existed), but I was definitely susceptible to Maherism (smugly announcing your own viewpoint as common sense or FACT, no matter how uneducated one is on the subject – often seen coupled with a newfound feeling of having figured everything out, e.g. “I’m right about god not existing, so I’m probably right about everything else too”).

So, in those days I spent a lot of time on the JREF forums. I read a lot of Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens (the first two I now have zero respect for, and the latter I’ve since become hugely disappointed with on certain issues). I also enjoyed Penn & Teller, and probably many others I can’t remember right now.

It was only because of the “deep rifts” in the atheism movement that I really became interested in feminism and other social justice issues. I was one of those people who simply assumed since we’re all atheists we’re probably also fairly open minded, left leaning people. The insights I came to from being disgusted with the misogynist and racist atheists, and simultaneously reading/listening to progressive atheists, have completely transformed me as a person. Many of the values and ideas which are central to my everyday life and personality now were entirely absent in my brain about 6 or 7 years ago. I don’t even feel like the same person anymore.

If I hadn’t been interested in skepticism and atheism when I was younger, I don’t know that I would’ve been introduced to feminism and other social justice issues in a way that I could understand. In fact, I only found this blog because Pharyngula would sometimes link to it. I’m hugely grateful for the prominent atheists who helped me figure some of these things out, even these days when I’m no longer very interested in atheism as a community. I don’t have a habit of writing fan mail, but if I did, I would be sending some of those emails to Jen McCreight, Greta Christina, PZ Myers, Tracie Harris, Rebecca Watson, Heina Dadabhoy and many many more.

And most of the regular commenters here are amazing too.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

I’m 48, never been married…and still, stupidly, haven’t given up hope of finding someone (male) who is not a fate worse than death. Not altogether, anyhow. This site is helping me figure out what to avoid. Thankfully, most guys are NOT that asinine. These are just some of the more texbook (or egregious) cases.

Also, “dick seizes” made me giggle like a loon on the lake, too. Wasn’t there recently a stupid crook (white) who accidentally shot his dick off and blamed it on a black guy? Seems to me that’s been in the news lately, if anyone wants to look it up. He hasn’t yet gotten his story straight, either.

Anyhow, all that said — hi, Marquerite, feel free to pull up a hard chair (which is misandry!), and click on the scented candle on the right sidebar, near the bottom, where there’s a welcome package awaiting.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Whoops…where did the scented candle go? And when did it disappear? Anyhow, welcome aboard!

ChildOfMedia
5 years ago

I prefer to think of myself as sweetened condensed milk, ready to be blended into a delightful latte … that can also break your spine.

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@This Handle – While I definitely recognize that these metrics vary across locations and demographics…dude – you’re 36.

For soooo many people where I live, that’s on the early end of settling down age.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

My great-uncle had a wonderful relationship with a woman he’d first met as a young man. Then they had married other people, who eventually died; they met again in their 80s and at that point were completely gaga over each other. They already had kids and a good support system, they just got together because they were in love and it made them both happy.

In fact, the happier marriages I’ve seen tend to be between people who marry older, as they’ve already grown into themselves, are smart enough to know what they want, generally have some financial stability and are really *ready* for it. They take time to be with each other and enjoy each other’s company in quiet little ways.

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
5 years ago

Sorry for the delay in responding to people, my Dad came over and I didn’t have the time to get to anyone.

Before we begin I want to clear something up: Just because I half agree with MGTOW on age (they seem to think that men are exempt from this, I feel that men are just as effected) does *NOT* mean I am one. I think that if serious (unlikely since shouldn’t they, you know, go their own way by now) they are either cutting off their nose to spite their face (if serious about leaving relationships behind, they ensure less money and a shorter life-span) or ineffectual bigots (if using it as a half-assed Lysistrata gambit to get people to go along with their hatred of women and minorities).

Now, on to the arguments: Generally the early 20s is too early but by 25 everything should be fine as in 90% of cases you’ve finished up any job training, by 25 you should be close to as mature as you are going to get (the idea of delayed maturity was a ploy by baby-boomers to delay their economic competition…there is a reason that most of the recent Fortune 500 companies created were by 20-somethings). This gives you the opportunity to experience a lot more together (by the time you meet at 45 you’ve already had most of your big experiences and the relationship is considerably lessened). You get all the decline none of the peak (peak years biologically are 25-35) so who cares by that point.

However, reaching old age alone is truly a fate worse than death for men (the character of women’s friendships keep it from being that for women, but men are completely incapable of these types of friendships) so I’m still looking and will almost certainly take whichever woman will have me (so, rather than being a MGTOW I’m a Man Who Will Accept Anything or MWWAA).

I have undoubtably lost whatever respect I had from people here but to quote Stephen Dillane play Thomas Jefferson in the John Adams miniseries “It is what I believe”.

Also…in an immature note: does a dick seize hurt?

dhag85
5 years ago

That made zero sense. Good night.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

This Handle is a Test,
I don’t think anyone else cares whether or not you want to get married. But why would you care what other people do? If people say they’re in a happy marriage, who are you to tell them different?

Besides, what about all the same sex couples that were only legally allowed to marry recently is some places and still aren’t allowed in others. Was it pointless for those couple who were forced to wait to marry now?

Or what about this acquaintance I know who got married young but her husband died. I believe she’s in early thirties now. Should she never be allowed to remarry if she meets someone else because she had her chance and blew it by being dumb enough to marry someone who would later get cancer?

Or what about people who were in an abusive first marriage and meet someone great later. No second chances for them? If they want to be married, they should just stay with their abusers?

It just seems like you have this weird hang up that is causing you to make sweeping generalizations that don’t have any facts backing them up and just make no sense.

Linax5
Linax5
5 years ago

why are they so angry at the fact that women get ”fcked” and have dirty sex before them? As if sex makes them somehow evil, dirty and used…

steampunked (@steampunked)

Jarnsaxa, that’s lovely 🙂

My brother’s(*) mother sadly passed away a few years ago from breast cancer, and his father eventually remarried a lovely older lady, with the entire family’s blessing. Not that they needed it, but it’s nice to be celebrated, no?

So my brother is going up north shortly to visit his brand NEW brother, who has come as a wee bit of a surprise given the ages involved. We, the ‘children’, are in our forties so that’s one hell of an age gap between my brother and his brother, but it also means lots of adults around to assist, which has its own benefits.

(*) Our family is complex!

Fred_the_Dog
5 years ago

Dear This Handle Is A Test, please don’t marry just anyone. That rarely ever works out well. It is way, way worse to be unhappy in a bad marriage than it is to be unhappy alone. (This is a lesson I learned way too well.)

You are only 36. Take some ballroom dance classes (they are full of women). Volunteer with a dog or cat rescue (also, full of women). If there aren’t any single ones, they will fix you up with their single friends. It is not hard to find single people. It might be hard to find the right single person, but it is worth the effort.