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Men’s Rights Redditors respond to my Urban Dictionary post with closely reasoned, substantive arguments

Well, it seems that some of the good folks on the Men’s Rights subreddit have taken issue with my post this morning congratulating them on their massive victory in brigading their preferred definition of “MRA” into the top spot on Urban Dictionary. Apparently they think I was trying to brigade their victory away from them.

Let’s take a look at some of their specific complaints, shall we?

The lovely fellow who calls himself ThePigmen brings up the important issue of me being a “walking shit-stain,” makes an irrelevant pedantic point, and accuses me of running ads I’ve never actually seen on my own site, perhaps because at least some of the ads are tailored to user profiles.

ThePigmanAgain 1 point 2 hours ago Manboobz is a walking shit-stain. Also, he is a moron who can't tell the difference between a suffragist and a suffragette. He also runs ads for gambling sites, which in my book makes him even more of a shit-stain.

Right now the top ad I see on this site is one tailored to “xfinity customers like you,” and I am in fact an xfinity customer, for better or worse.

Whelponry notes that my last name sounds like a naughty thing in French, sort of.

whelponry 1 point 3 hours ago Is it immature to say that his name sounds a bit like "fucker" in French, or is that just the stars aligning to tell us the truth about Mr. White Knight?

Touche!

Another commenter isn’t quite sure who I am, and decides to simply presume the worst.

Lethn 3 points 8 hours ago I don't even know who this guy is? I presume he's another moron who thinks it's okay to harass and attack people that disagree with him? permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]Leinadro 4 points 8 hours ago Yes but to be specific he is a morom that thinks its okay its to harass and attack mras. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]HotSauciness 2 points 6 hours ago he's a very anti-MRA feminist. He's very popular on AgainstMensRights, I think he even posts there sometimes.

Remember, when you presume you make a pres of u and me!

There is the obligatory wall-of-text-so-big-I-had-to-make-two-screenshots-and-smush-them-together suggesting that no woman would ever touch me and that I am basically like the Ku Klux Klan, if you think about it.

HotZone_ 1 point 2 hours ago Futrelle is one of the most vile characters I've ever come across. Just reading his stuff makes me feel queasy, like I'm watching a minstrel play or something. In fact he closely resembles the "house negro" of the old South. Described here by Malcolm X: So you have two types of Negro. The old type and the new type. Most of you know the old type. When you read about him in history during slavery he was called "Uncle Tom." He was the house Negro. And during slavery you had two Negroes. You had the house Negro and the field Negro. If someone came to the house Negro and said, "Let's go, let's separate," naturally that Uncle Tom would say, "Go where? What could I do without boss? Where would I live? How would I dress? Who would look out for me?" That's the house Negro. But if you went to the field Negro and said, "Let's go, let's separate," he wouldn't even ask you where or how. He'd say, "Yes, let's go." And that one ended right there. The house Negro usually lived close to his master. He dressed like his master. He wore his master's second-hand clothes. He ate food that his master left on the table. And he lived in his master's house--probably in the basement or the attic--but he still lived in the master's house. Judging from his picture, I don't think Dave has any delusions that any woman would ever want to sleep with him, at least not out of legitimate desire. And I think that plays into his psychopathology. He really, really desires some sort of validation from the opposite sex, and "We Hunted the Mammoth" is the result. Every time he attacks men and boys he gets a pat on the head in the form of a few feminists commenting on his blog, and that is apparently enough for him to throw his own gender under the bus. This guy is the lowest of the low. It would be one thing if he limited his half-baked whining to elements of the manosphere that deserve such criticism. But he essentially lumps everyone together as though a man fighting for genital integrity, educational opportunities for boys, due process rights, the end of debtors prisons, father's being able to see their children etc. etc. are exactly the same as some chauvinist posting on the red pill. The interesting thing about the hardcore anti-MRA's is that they fancy themselves "progressives" who are "fighting the man." In fact, they are essentially bullies for the establishment. They will be remembered by history the same we remember people who opposed the abolitionists, the union movement, the civil rights movement and so forth. Remember that David: you will be remembered in the same way we remember the Ku Klux Klan. wall2

One commenter notes that the central premise of the Men’s Rights post — that I sent my “wolf pack” out to brigade the Urban Dictionary definition of MRA — is not actually true. They get downvoted.

tiqr -3 points 8 hours ago Nothing in that article encourages people to brigade urban dictionary. It just mocks this subreddit for doing it. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]blueoak9 4 points 8 hours ago Actually Futurelle's groupies hardly have to be told anymore to brigade; he just points out targets and the wolf packs go into action. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]tiqr 1 point 8 hours ago That may happen, but it's unfair to accuse him of brigading when there isn't even subtle encouragement in his article. Especially when this sub pretty blatantly engaged in overt "brigading" (activism?) of the same nature. Not that I disagree with the definition as it stands. The other definitions below it are really childish. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]garglemesh42 1 point 6 hours ago Perhaps you don't know how batshit insane he and his followers are. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]blueoak9 1 point 6 hours ago* but it's unfair to accuse him of brigading when there isn't even subtle encouragement in his article. He trained them in brigading. He no longer has to explicitly deploy them. That's the only difference. He is not innocent here.

Wow. Apparently the Battle of Urban Dictionary is much more important to these folks than I even realized.

If you ever wonder why I turn down offers to debate with MRAs, this is why: they would totally win!

Also, quick note to the wolf pack: CODE 4 RED “THEY KNOW” PROTOCOL 2.6 YANKEE HOTEL MARCOTTE

 

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Sarah Aigei (@shietka)

“Harass?” Aren’t these the same type of people who claim that “disagreement isn’t harassment” while they fill someone’s twitter mentions?

Sinister_Hand
Sinister_Hand
5 years ago

Well, that’s Foxtrot Uniform Bravo Alpha Romeo, Sierra November Alpha Foxtrot Uniform and a Charlie Foxtrot rolled into one. Standard Mike Romeo Alpha stuff.

Sorry, just showing off.

Mari
Mari
5 years ago

They’re sure your minions are busy clicking on Urban Dictionary, but from comments on the previous post, most readers here were quickly distracted by the prospect of a Zazzle store, news about Walker, and, of course, Doctor Who. All of which are topics of much greater interest than their “achievement” on UD.

andiexist
andiexist
5 years ago

Ceiling Cat, grant me the patience to read through that herd of teal deer.

*reads through the herd*

Yup, those were some teal teal deer with hardly anything to say. At least one person there has a shred of self-awareness.

leftwingfox
5 years ago

It’s always projection.

“Trained in Brigading?” He might have you mixed up with Pharyngula, when PZ used to direct people to smash unregistered “popular opinion” polls any time the opposition used one as if they had any value.

I brigade like a house-cat.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

CODE 4: WHERE’S KATIE? THE WOLF HOWLS AT MIDNIGHT, YANKEE HOTEL.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I’ll do some presuming of my own and surmise that they are unaware that Suffragist is what the original women called themselves.

Suffragette started out as a pejorative term (because of the more ‘feminine’ suffix) but they reclaimed the name for themselves.

People who are familiar with my obsession with Edith Garrud may have noted my pedantic use of the former term 🙂

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Wait I thought they hate false acusations? These guys didn’t know who you are and they already made an assumption you harass mras and you are a rapist or something? (the part where you can’t get women unless it’s not legitmate and wait to go on advocating that toxic masculinity no one is a better misandrist than you misognist rapey a-holes) And really? Comparing David to the Ku klux klan? Dang mras you overreact to everything and we women and feminists are the emotional ones?

You complaining about people harassing you is like a bully beating up a kid and the kid tells him to stop and the bully replies stop harassing me. Mras you don’t care about men or boys you just whine all day about the friendzone and want women and girls to not have any rights or to be treated like people at all you are not fooling us.

I’m not feeling good today so apologies for my long ranty comment.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

“Way to go” not “wait to go”

numerobis
numerobis
5 years ago

“Futrelle” doesn’t actually sound anything like “fucker” in French. But whatever, reality isn’t the issue here.

Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
5 years ago

HotZone_, who needs an underscore so as not to infringe upon The Original HotZone™

Just reading his stuff makes me feel queasy, like I’m watching a minstrel play or something.

A minstrel play? How would that even work? Is the analogy here that there isn’t really a man, but “Dave” is actually a woman in “maleface?” Does HotZoneUnderscore acknowledge the existence of Dave but somehow imagine him to be in “womanface?”

Are the only options here that HZ_ either has no idea what he’s talking about, is repugnantly transphobic, or both?

ljy2008
5 years ago

What bothers me the most about these guys is their ability to warp confused minds into their horrendous way of relating to the world.

They are essentially destroying people’s lives.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

If David is capable of sending out wolf packs to attack MRAs, doesn’t that make him an …

ALPHA MALE!?

http://cdn2.screenjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/game-of-thrones-threat.gif

Goodness!
Goodness!
5 years ago

Genital integrity? GENITAL INTEGRITY?
Good grief Charlie Brown!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

So, if David is a house Negro in this terrible, terrible analogy, than MRAs are field Negros. Right? So, they’re saying that people not taking them seriously on the internet is equivalent to being a slave who works in punishing outdoor conditions and is frequently whipped, beaten and tortured. What? That is so ridiculously offensive. Especially since they don’t actually care at all about the very real problems that, thanks to a legacy of slavery, black men still face. Dean Esmay didn’t even know what stop and frisk was! Usually, when MRAs think of black men, they think of cuckolding. They’re only concerned with carcerality when it comes to “false” rape accusations. They don’t care about the gross inequities in the criminal justice. They only mention racism when they attempt to trash feminism.

They really are disgusting.

Also, I have something to tell Pigman. If there’s a blue triangle in the corner of the ad, it’s from ad choices. They are, in fact based on your cookies and the information that other businesses you’ve interacted with have sold. When I had to buy a bridesmaid’s dress, I bought a plus size and had it tailored down because my boobs are too big for the rest of my body and I had to buy a large size to cover them. While I am by no means thin, I wear regular sizes. But after I bought that plus sized dress, I got ads for plus sized retailers on every site I visited. That’s how marketing works these days. How is it possible to not understand that?

ChildOfMedia
5 years ago

Sorry, I missed the training sessions are you considering having them posted on line at some point?

As a female I am incapable of doing anything without direction from a male.

reallyfriendly
reallyfriendly
5 years ago

@WWTH

They finally got it! David is THE alpha they aspire to! Hence all this jealousy and name dropping – they can’t get him out of their minds.

HE DOMINATES THEIR THOUGHTS!

He gets all these happy thoughts from wimenz and it makes them so frustrated. They want to get some of the lovin’ by gnawing and pawing, but ain’t no male Alpha like David – in the hearts of women and the minds of men.

Sir Knight, I salute you.

Brian Jenkins
Brian Jenkins
5 years ago

And somewhere along the line, they lost their great victory. The “whiny pedantic morons” definition of MRA is now back in first place, with 17,116 upvotes.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MRA

scribbles
scribbles
5 years ago

also on reddit MRA today: apparently MRA redditors have to have sarcasm explained to them because they fall for it in droves, I guess?

“We have 2 problems on this sub just to do with what people post.

A. Satire Articles – If somthing seems strange about the article and it sounds like it could be sarcastic than it probably is. We come from a diffrent viewpoint than a lot of people and if they make fun of our views in a sarcastic way, it dose not help if we upvote it to the front page.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3lvxxk/guys_we_need_to_clean_up_this_subits_going/

lol

Amy Andri
5 years ago

Instead wasting their time on crap like this, how come they don’t help the boys of afghanistan. Is it because they can’t blame women for it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?_r=0

scribbles
scribbles
5 years ago

Haha, they think they’re a civil rights movement. Yes, all of those MRAs out in the streets, marching, demanding change, organizing coalitions, helping homeless and downtrodden men whenever and wherever they can and totally not just whining about feminism on the Internet and culling what information they don’t make up from sources like Breitbart. Right.

Anyway, doesn’t all of this keyboard crusader slacktivism shit actually mean they’ve been the SJWs all along?

scribbles
scribbles
5 years ago

@weirdwoodtreehugger

“They’re only concerned with carcerality when it comes to “false” rape accusations. They don’t care about the gross inequities in the criminal justice. They only mention racism when they attempt to trash feminism.”

Yes, I’ve noticed the same. I think we all have at this point. They’re pointing out tiny flecks in the broader problems inherent in the judicial system when it suits their misogynist goals. If they actually cared they’d fixate less on extremely rare shit like false rape claims and more on, I don’t know, the entire fucking justice system?

Shit, don’t they love Cosby too? Sure isn’t creepy at all how they currently have a “So You’ve Been Accused of Rape” thread on their reddit right now. Totally not creepy and telling. Totally.

Falconer
5 years ago

We absolutely, positively did not brigade anything.

David didn’t say “Would you kindly … ”

Hang on though, if he used a picture of a Silence, like this one,

labelled “Brigade Urban Dictionary,” would any of us actually remember doing it?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Hang on though, if he used a picture of a Silence, like this one, [no image]

I see what you did there. =P

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Leaving aside the incredible offensiveness and insensitivity the comment or shows by comparing the “plight” of men today with slavery, if David was indeed the equivalent to a House Negro, then he wouldn’t be in the KKK. The KKK doesn’t let black people join, not even ones that are arguably sympathetic to “the cause”.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Just reading his stuff makes me feel queasy, like I’m watching a minstrel play or something.

What does he have against bards, harpists and lute players, anyway?

jenninsb
jenninsb
5 years ago

Somewhat OT: I learned a new word today: brigade as a verb instead of a noun. In the spirit of the last two posts, I went to Urban Dictionary to see if they had a useful definition. They did not, so I had to had to fall back on google:

bri·gade • briˈɡād/
verb
rare. form into a brigade.

Who knew I’d expand my vocabulary reading WHTM?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid | September 21, 2015 at 9:07 pm
A minstrel play? How would that even work? Is the analogy here that there isn’t really a man, but “Dave” is actually a woman in “maleface?” Does HotZoneUnderscore acknowledge the existence of Dave but somehow imagine him to be in “womanface?”

Well, technically David is a business of ferrets in a human suit.

As evidenced by this footage of David with his David suit off:

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

I don’t know why he bothers with the human suit, I mean, being the business of ferrets au natural is adorable! And pouncy-bouncy!

raysa
raysa
5 years ago

So, no woman will sleep with Dave futrelle. And MRAS have to trick women into sleeping with them, or dodge consent, to get women to sleep with them.

So, in theory, doesn’t that make Dave an oppressed guy that no one will sleep with? Just like the MRAS? Why don’t they want to help Dave get laid?

Why don’t they want to help dave, since he is just a wayward victimized male that can’t get laid? Don’t they want to help free him from the evil feminists, so that he can get some ass?

*I am absolutely sure you do ok with women, Dave futrelle. Seems like MRAS would want to save you, though.*

Also, am I supposed to be receiving benefits from being employed in the wolf pack? Someone owes me a paycheck! Pay me for my activism!!!!!!

raysa
raysa
5 years ago

Frootloopsie said:

“You complaining about people harassing you is like a bully beating up a kid and the kid tells him to stop and the bully replies stop harassing me.”

Best analogy ever.

Chaos-Engineer
Chaos-Engineer
5 years ago

bri·gade • briˈɡād/
verb
rare. form into a brigade.

That’s a good working definition but it doesn’t capture some of the nuances.

On Reddit, every comment and article has an “upvote” and a “downvote” button that readers can click on. There’s a large segment of Reddit users that are hyper-sensitive to the downvote button being clicked. If you merely hover your mouse cursor over it, then they’ll somehow be able to sense that and it will cause them immense physical pain.

“Brigading” is when people from Message Board A read a message that tells them to go to Message Board B and click the downvote button on a particular article or set of comments . This is considered an especially cruel form of torture, and you can get banned from Reddit for doing it.

The best way to think about “brigading” is that it’s sort of like a war crime, only it takes place on the Internet. When you understand that, you can see that the /r/MensRights reaction is pretty much what’s to be expected.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Urban Dictionary: “MRAs are whiny, pedantic assholes.”

MRAs: “THAT DESCRIPTION IS INCREDIBLY INACCURATE AND ALSO HURTS MY FEELINGS THEY’RE BEING MEAN TO ME”

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

My children’s book of the women’s suffrage movement explained that suffragist was the American term and suffragette was more the British term. This may or may not have been derogatory. It may have been part of the wider British fancifying of occupational nouns for women (which also may or may not have been derogatory). When I arrived in the UK almost 20 years ago, women with management roles were still being called manageresses. I thought this was a very clever (read stupid and silly) way of turning a gender neutral occupational noun into a gendered one and making manager default male. This seems to be largely fading from use, thank goodness.

Twisted Inspiration
5 years ago

While I appreciate the fact that they seem to (at least intuitivly) that “real men” should be able to have feelings, the whole whining gets a little tiresome after a while. Honestly, who would think of as a “real man”, if all he did was whining about how bad people are who make fun of them. I would call them children, but most children are neither that stupid not that socially inept.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

However, I’d be rather curious to see what these blokes think is the difference between suffragist and suffragette.

On a side note, I have a teeny bit of sympathy with their pain. My colleagues and I made up and then submitted a word to urban dictionary. We didn’t even make the submission cut. It stung more than I thought it would.

calmdown
calmdown
5 years ago

Maybe I don’t understand the internet, but how is what they did not ALSO “brigading”? (I assume they encouraged them somewhere to upvote the “correct” definition?) Or is it only not allowed if they think someone else is doing it?

Happy Cat
Happy Cat
5 years ago

“I don’t think Dave has any delusions that any woman would ever want to sleep with him”

Because, of course, ALL men are obsessed by sex and cry “FRIENDZONE” or “FEMINAZI” whenever a woman tells them they’re not interested! Men who act nice out of pure kindness don’t exist! *sarcasm*

David Futrelle, the world needs more people like you! May I hug you?

Drooling Fan Girl
Drooling Fan Girl
5 years ago

Augh! All of the definitions that I saw were terrible.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

I brigaded UD so hard that I haven’t even bothered to go over there and read their stupid little definition. If it gets down voted away I expect it’ll be the regular readers of UD who do it rather than SJWs. Though according to Paul Elam, the definition of SJW is anyone who disagrees with an MRA.

Maybe the anger over the interchanging of the terms ‘suffragist’ and ‘suffragette’ are because the first is gender neutral and implies votes for everyone, while suffragette is specifically associated with votes for women. Plus we know how these guys take anything that sounds feminine as an insult.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

Okay, I DID go check out UD. This is currently the top definition of MRA:

‘Acronym for a group called Men’s Rights Activists.

I.E. – A bunch of whiny pedantic morons that think there is some vast Illuminati feminist conspiracy while seemingly ignoring the fact that their own gender runs the majority of the world.

– Hey, you hear about that guy in Marketing that complains about his ex-wife all the time?
— Yeah, I heard that he just got a raise and tried to take his ex to court to reduce his child support.
– Jeez, what a MRA.’

So that victory was short lived. The first favorable definition is at number 5, those misters had better get back to their upvoting and stop whinging about David.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

I didn’t even think to go over there and vote after David’s first post, but after reading their whinging, I did. Urban Dictionary is looking slick these days. I haven’t been there since the redesign.

dhag85
5 years ago

Been looking forward to having a big bowl of Special K cereal all morning, and now I just realized I accidentally bought the “red berries” version. I usually like strawberries and raspberries, but these bits of “berry” just taste terrible. Terrible! My breakfast, and thus my day, has been ruined.

David, can you send your wolfpack to Kellogg’s next? Tell them these berries aren’t berries at all. I am so upset.

But at least these guys in the OP are having an even worse day. 🙂

kylagb
5 years ago

He he, seem David has got us all brainwashed!!! We are automatons who do his bidding that must be subliminally hid in the text of his blogs. 🙂 Just imagine if we could read his blogs backwards what we’d read!

Mari further up in the comments makes some great points!

kylagb
5 years ago

“Seems” it should read.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

@dhag85 – I, for one, prefer the Red Berries version and do not mind the, admittedly odd, freeze dried berries. I shall not be brainwashed into the wolf pack for that! 😉

Though I did upvote the other definitions of MRA and downvote the MRA one. 🙂

Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
5 years ago

David, can you send your wolfpack to Kellogg’s next? Tell them these berries aren’t berries at all. I am so upset.

If applying an ice pack to your food makes it colder, will applying a wolf pack to it make it more lupine?

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Announcer: “New Kellogg’s Special K. Now with 40% more wolves!”

Scene: An unnaturally large, brilliant white kitchen.

A glamorous model sits down, her red jacket draped prominently over the chair back, and pours out a box of Special K. Instead of cereal, however, out come a pack of wolves which devour the model messily.

As the wolves sit upon the torn, blood-splattered wreckage of the kitchen and begin to howl, cut to a graphic of the cereal box.

Announcer: “Start your day the right way!”