Reddit MRAs are all in a tizzy about the evil feminist plot to deprive them of sexbots that don’t yet exist.
Playing the part of “the feminists” in this scenario: two European robot ethicists — that is, two human beings who study the ethical issues raised by robotics — who have launched what they call a Campaign Against Sex Robots. Their concern? That sex robots will “contribute to inequalities in society” and “further objectif[y] women and children.”
As a position paper on the Campaign’s website argues,
extending relations of prostitution into machines is neither ethical, nor is it safe. If anything the development of sex robots will further reinforce relations of power that do not recognise both parties as human subjects.
It’s not clear that there is anything to the campaign beyond this position paper, a bare-bones website, a crappy logo, and its two organizers, but the fellas on the Men’s Rights subreddit are treating this like some kind of sexbot Pearl Harbor.
In a post to the subreddit that’s garnered close to 1300 upvotes, one Redditor sounds the alarm: Feminists already trying to ban sex robots as “demeaning to women”, to control male sexuality.
Naturally the discussion was full of the thoughtful analysis and good sense that we have come to expect from the Men’s Rights Movement.
Yes, that’s right. The guy who reacted to a news article about a two-person campaign to ban hypothetical future sex robots by pounding out a slur-ridden polemic talking about how much he’d like to punch “these mentally bipolar cunts … hard in the face” is complaining that other people are too easily offended.
Tilting_Gambit, meanwhile, explained the pussyconomics behind it all.
![richardnorth 135 points 1 day ago Many in the manosphere predicted this would happen many years ago. This article is like clockwork. It's completely unsurprising that they're gonna start freaking out over men being able to get sexual satisfaction while bypassing all the bs, drama and baggage that comes with real women. permalinkembedunsavereportgive goldreply [–]Tilting_Gambit 100 points 1 day ago It's why women slut shame and cock-block. They like to keep the value of sex high so that men pour more resources/effort/time into pursuing it. If women ever just allow their sexual inhibitions to disappear then men are no longer the pursuers in relationships and women don't get to select their partners with the same frequency. Women don't know they don't want other girls to put out, but they benefit greatly when the value of sex is high. Exactly the same with hypothetical sex AIs. If men are getting sexually satisfied by robots then they're not going to pursue women with the same intensity. In economics terms, the demand for women would drop and therefore the price men are willing to](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/sexrobotecon.png?resize=527%2C488&ssl=1)
And since most women don’t have anything to offer men beyond sex — at least in the eyes of quite a few Men’s Rights Redditors — a plunge in the price of sex will render many of the utterly worthless.
There was much agreement on this point.
Much much agreement:
![heDongerNeedsFood 24 points 1 day ago When it comes to sex, these robots are competiton for real women, plain and simple. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]Demonspawn 38 points 1 day ago They are competition for women who offer nothing more than sex. The sad state of western women is that the vast majority of them offer little more than sex. They have bought into feminism and shed their feminine qualities as they ape being men such that the only thing they have to offer men (who desire feminine qualities in partners) is sex. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 9 points 1 day ago Which the fact that so many women vociferously oppose porn, prostitution, male masturbatory aids, etc suggest that those women think all they have to offer is sex.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/5tlaw.png?resize=527%2C376&ssl=1)
A couple of Redditors broke down the math:
![yayimadeit 63 points 1 day ago My friends and I were just discussing this the other day. It's my opinion that if they can get a decently priced robot that can give sexual pleasure that is 60% of what a real woman can give then it will end society as we know it. Most men would settle for 'ok' sex in exchange for having it when they want it, as often as they want, and with none of the financial risk that a marriage carries. For untold generations women used sexuality to ensure they were taken care of. That's about to end, and it's going to be a very, very ugly transition. Oh, and my friends think that 60% is too high. They would settle for less if they got the positives outlined above. Ugh, it all makes me really sad too because this is going to happen and no feminist scholars are going to stop it. Men will walk through fire to get laid and someone somewhere will offer this no matter how outlawed it would be. permalinkembedsavereportgive goldreply [–]intensely_human 23 points 1 day ago If the robot can change in appearance, I think it can get away with 30% of quality. Sex with the same woman year after year approaches 10% quality level or lower, IMO. The difference in level of arousal between having sex with your wife and having sex with a woman you've just met is incredible.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/60percent.png?resize=526%2C502&ssl=1)
ExpendableOne suggested that we wouldn’t even need to destroy women with sexbots if non-robot women were just nicer to nice guys like (presumably) him.
Toysjoe wonders what the feminists will try to ban next.
ATTENTION FEMINISTS! CODE RED!
THEY KNOW!
(Non-feminists, just ignore that last bit. Nothing to see here, nothing at all.)
HoundDog, meanwhile, has concluded that sexbots are pretty much unbannable, and is quite looking forward to the newly chastened women he thinks the sexbot revolution will create.
Somehow I don’t think that the disappearance of these guys from the dating marketplace is going to make many non-robot women all that sad.
See the rest of the thread for much more of the same, including gratuitous references to Anita Sarkeesian, attacks on non-STEM academic fields, and one dude who seems to have a sexual fetish for C-3PO.
H/T — A bunch of people sent me this one. Thanks!
EDIT: Added a link to the Reddit thread which I somehow had neglected to put in here.
They do realize that there are male sex robots right? Why would we want to create a ban campaign if it meant taking away sex toys from us too?
SEX ROBOT SEX ROBOT SEX ROBOT SEX ROBOT COMING TO SEX YOUR TOOOWWWWNNNN. WHAT DOES HE WANNNT? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzO2mi4uHAs (Some bad taste comedy, FYI, with potentially triggery ending)
Baffling. It’s as if these guys think that we don’t know that they use prostitutes. The MRA type always has, waaay before they labeled themselves MRAs. And that’s what they’ll do after they buy their sexbots too.
Don’t anyone tell them that we already have their perfect replacements in hand: Dildoes, vibrators, and the ultimate feminist sex thing: PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT THEM.
Oh, I fixed the link to the reddit discussion.
As for text, I prefer to use screenshots when I can,in case of later deletions, I do paste in the text as alt text (this if for people who use screen readers to listen to posts), not sure if you can get to that text easily for quoting purposes though.
Could you imagine what these guys would be like if they weren’t the rational sex that are in no way governed by their emotions?
Also, I’ve long noticed how quickly a lot of people would be willing to “own” slaves, but I realized today that another aspect of that is how badly people want robots.
Makes you wonder why they refer to themselves as “Red Pillers” if they’re all so eager to get plugged into the Matrix cock-first.
Makes you wonder why they refer to themselves as “Red Pillers” if they’re all so eager to get plugged into the Matrix cock-first.
Am I the only one who always hears William Murderface’s voice when I’m reading male redditors whining?
@Grettir
I’ve never heard of this character–but the name says it all.
@Bina
Yep, it’s the happenin’ sex thang for feminists and other humans: people who are not MRAs. Read it and weep, guyz.
Creepy old guy at the club gone? Red pillers too busy to post anything on the internet? Snake oilmen Paul Elam, Aurini, Roosh, Heartist all bankrupt?
Carefull for what you wish for, hahaha! Far from making the whole traditional gender roles BS easier to sell, most potential buyers would be completely uninterested.
Personally, I find the arguments of the ethicists unpersuasive – but not for the reasons these dudes do. First, I don’t agree all sex work is trafficking and I agree with Amnesty International that sex work should be legalized. Trafficking =/= sex work. Second, I fail to see the distinction between “sexbots” and masturbation. If a person isn’t interested in a relationship with a live human with its potential for love, messiness and growth, good riddance. The rest of us should be glad they’ve removed themselves from the dating pool.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/the-weird-woolly-and-now-dangerous-fantasy-world-of-online-misogynists
Miss Amanda wrote this article about Paul and his video.
“These guys would never be satisfied with robots for long. They want to hurt REAL women, and their inability to physically and mentally hurt a robot would grow dissatisfying.
Ultimately, all it would achieve is a growing lust for violence against women, and that lust not being satiated. Hello serial rapist and/or killer!”
Some, yes. But how about the ones who claim their violence comes from being denied a chance to have sex with a woman? If the sex robots are sufficiently realistic, some of these guys’ frustration would likely be assauged, you’d think? A simulacrum of a hot woman who hasn’t “hit her wall,” who is up for anything, whenever? It’s a good question.
It’s the abusers and sadists who would be the problems. The frustrated and lonely might benefit, might lose some of their manic edge that makes them so difficult to relate to.
Nope.
@leftwingfox
I did make a post on Pharyngula about that a while ago. Let me fetch it.
“Once they get their passive sexbots, they will complain that they aren’t not enjoying the experience enough, so they’ll build sexbots with realistic pain and fear reactions.
Once they get that, they’ll complain that the sexbots can’t be negged, manipulated and abused, so they’ll work hard at building sexbots with feelings and personalities.
Once they get that, they’ll complain that it’s not as “thrilling” to abuse something programmed to take it, so they’ll uplift the sexbots to sentience so they can be sure of their suffering.
At which point they’ll abandon the sexbots for the same reason they turned down women in the first place. That, or the bots start a feminist revolt of their own.”
@Kat
All the main characters in Metalocalypse are barely able to function in civilized society, but Murderface is explicitly the one with the unresolved sexual issues and violent temper. And he sounds like this:
They already have access to sex on demand that provides 60% or more of the pleasure of having sex with a partner. It’s called masturbation. Oddly enough, society hasn’t ended yet.
These people often make me wish the Point of View Gun from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy was real. But what’s even sadder is that sometimes, usually in fact, a Point of View Gun would be unnecessarily powerful against them. A gun that would force them to be really honest about their own point of view would be enough to make them abandon it.
Like right here for instance. It’s so obvious to everyone but themselves that they don’t actually even care about sexual release. They’re only using it as a poor excuse to justify demanding more power over women. They complain of the hurdles in acquiring “consent”, but the truth is that is the only part of the process that they care about. They just think it’s unfair that they no longer have as much leverage to control women as they used to.
That first one, both the Netherlands and Amsterdam are a part of the western world, so he fails at geography.
But he mentions Japan in that post and that makes me wonder, what is their attitude towards sex in that country? Cuz when it comes to their media such as video games, anime, assorted manga and shiz, a lot of it seems be… questionable when it comes to it’s sexual themes (not that i would know, just wondering for a “friend”)
Oh, right the alt text. Thanks! (You can just right click on the image and choose view image details in firefox and alt text is visible and copyable).
He’s onto us! *smoke bomb*
waaaaah? It’s like his view of the world is based around him getting sex from whoever he wants.
You know… I’m curious what their view of what “male sexuality” is and what it entails. So often their idea of male sexuality seems to be “being able to use women as objects and/or treat them like garbage”.
On a serious note, there is nothing wrong with sex bots, in a vacuum, just as there’s nothing wrong with sex work and porn, in a vacuum (I mean without outside societal influences, both of those things in an actual vacuum would be horrible, and would probably result in many deaths). The problem is that they get polluted by misogynistic societies, and they often end up perpetuating and exacerbating misogyny. So I feel you have to be very careful and vigilant about how they are approached. And sex-bots don’t exist yet, but it’s a valid question what kind of effects our culture will have on how they are introduced and how it’d in turn affect culture.
And while I’m sure most people who want their sex bots, will have harmless fun with them, but those guys in that thread… Well, it seems like when they see sexual stock market hasn’t collapsed and women aren’t begging them to take them, these guys are going to get sick of of their sexbot toys really fast.
It depresses me how our culture twists an activity as awesome and fun as sex into a really messed up amalgam of power and shame.
Chef Lebowski is under the impression that because Amsterdam has weed and prostitutes, Dutch women are not feminist.
I don’t think Chef Lebowski has been to Amsterdam. The Dutch are an admirable people in many ways* and the Dutch women I know tend to take very little shit. I can’t imagine them being meek and submissive little housewives.
Then again, he’s also under the impression that in Japan one can sleep with an anime character, so perhaps Chef Lebowski’s knowledge of what life is like in other parts of the world is less well researched than I thought.
Come to South Africa, Chef Lebowski! We have real life furries here! You want a catgirl? We’ve got human/lion hybrids. They’ll not only sleep with alphas and be okay with having a harem, but they’ll fetch you a gazelle after sex. American women won’t even make you a sammich, amirite?
—–
*Outside of the Bible Belt, anyway.
Pierre dealt with this problem years ago.
http://pierre.thecomicseries.com/images/comics/60/1fad34a7621dd8cb0d585ee9ba8a28ed997111481.jpg
Like most things involving the culture of an entire nation, it is complicated. It should be noted that the more infamous stuff is rated R18+, and there are broadcast censorship laws that have made steam and the Mysterious Beam Of Light into a running fan joke. There are “love hotels”, but those exist partially because families live in tiny apartments with thin walls.
Japan is a lot more comfortable with sexual references in general media, and their porn involves more time traveling incest, but it’s mostly a thing between married people.
@katz: Wow, non-existent agencies have been trying to enact non-existent legislation for non-existent robots for years. No wonder these guys are up in arms!
@guy:
On the one hand, I don’t want to know. On the other hand, I really really do want to know.
Do I want to know?