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MRAs: The real injustice is that men had to use Ashley Madison to cheat, while women just have to exist

MISANDRY in action?
MISANDRY in action?

Forget the reported suicides and all the ruined lives; the real tragedy of Ashley Madison is that men had to use the site in order to find women to cheat with, when all women have to do to get laid is to exist.

At least that’s the consensus of Men’s Rights Redditors in a recent thread.

The Reddit post in question links to an article in The Week asking “Why are we denying that women used Ashley Madison?” But the assembled MRAs are much more interested in discussing what they see as the real issue: how unfair it is that men have to sign up for dating sites to get laid while women, allegedly, can just fall into bed with whatever random dude is nearest to them.

The male tears flow freely as the Redditors set forth their case.

zenicaone 3 points 7 hours ago Women do not have to use Ashley Madison (paid site) in order to cheat they can use facebook (or other similar free sites) or simply walk down to the bar , when they want to cheat

It’s MISANDRY, I tells ya!

Globalization101 9 points 6 hours ago This is the real story that no one is touching. It's the WOW effect, women are wonderful men are duchebags. Most of all the women I've slept with in my adult life where almost all married or in a relationship. They didn't need to use this service to get what they wanted. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]jb_trp 9 points 5 hours ago It's the WOW effect, women are wonderful men are douchebags When a woman discusses the horrible things that men can do society calls it "insight, empowerment, and a step towards equality." When a man discusses the horrible things that women can do society calls it "sexism, misogyny, and mansplaining" (i.e. "shut up you whiny fucking loser!"). Men eventually got the message: Society doesn't care about your feelings. Hence, the women are wonderful and men are douchebags trope. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]BigOldNerd 1 point an hour ago Can confirm that my ex-wife didn't need a service. She hit the jackpot on her 1st outing.

As Palidin327 sees it, women not only don’t have to sign up for Ashley Madison; they can have sex delivered right to the door for free — without even bothering to order it in the first place.

Paladin327 1 point 4 hours ago Women don't actually need websites to have affairs don't need the internet to meet the mailman/poolboy

If this is true, why aren’t horny men lining up around the block for jobs as mailmen and poolboys?

Meanwhile, Spolio repeats a familiar talking point:

spolio 6 points 8 hours ago Women don't actually need websites to have affairs women are the gate keepers of sex, and yeah , you are correct, they don't need web sites, just a nod, look, come hither... done.

Dudes, here’s the thing: YOU are also the gatekeepers of sex. You can also say no! Just because your standards are lower, or because you have standards you’re unaware of because you only really notice the women that you do want to have sex with and not those you dismiss as fatties and uggoes, doesn’t mean that (heterosexual) sex is always the woman’s choice, not the man’s.

You’re also forgetting that women don’t only screen guys for attractiveness, compatibility, or lack of ear hair; they screen for safety because, you know, men are afraid women will laugh at them, and women are afraid that men will kill them.

If women don’t want to sleep with you, maybe it’s because you’re a creepy, whiny, entitled Men’s Rights Activist.

 

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katz
katz
5 years ago

Let us note that I would dearly like to see a movie with that scenario where it’s a Japanese person stuck in ex-Yugoslavia in the 90s, or African person stuck in Tibet when the Chinese move in, or very confused Mongolian in 1960s Mississipi.

If that extends to a Kazakh stuck in the Russian Revolution, have I got a book for you.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Alan Robertshaw | August 26, 2015 at 12:37 pm
@ Catapalta

It’s a little known fact that Beatrice just asked Dante to bring up those old boxes from the cellar and when he was telling his mates down the pub things got out of hand. But you know how blokes like to exaggerate about chores.

Well done, you got a laugh out of me.

Robert Kelly
5 years ago

So would you say that the tale grew in the telling, like with The Lord of the Rings?

LG.
LG.
5 years ago

When I was younger, having heard the “Women can have sex with any man whenever they want just by asking!” so many times, I naturally believed there was truth in it and tried to proposition a couple guys. Nope! Got the terrified/angry deer-in-the-headlights response. (I do come on strong, but I clean up okay and it’s not like I was throwing myself at them, just expressing interest).

The best part? One of the guys was someone who himself repeated that very myth to me…and he went on to keep repeating it after having turned me down! The cognitive distortion is amazing sometimes…

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Ant it’s not a joke movie. It’s already been out outside of the US. Apparently the main “theme” of the movie is that a bunch of slacktivist white kids want to stage a viral protest to save the rainforest, but they end up getting caught by native cannibals. They get punished for not actually being interested in really helping! Isn’t that so progressive you guise?

Jesus fucking christ.

Wilson
Wilson
5 years ago

@painteyelash – yeah, true – I was kind of thinking that even as I clicked ‘Post Comment’, but it’s kind of more gendered for them even when complaining in general terms – like you said, they think society caters to all women and demonizes all men (their wild generalizing is another sad thing).

I was thinking more complaining about ‘the man’ (note how the expression isn’t ‘the woman’, right?) or ‘big government’ keeping them down, or how the little guy never gets a break, and for none of those things do you actually need to bring in someone else getting unfair benefits from the status quo outside those nebulous ideas of authority. But they choose to bring in the entirety of womankind, which is petty at best and just plain misogynistic at worst.

katz
katz
5 years ago

On the bright side, it’s nice to see critics thrashing No Escape specifically for being xenophobic. Too often critics treat bigotry as a side issue not related to the quality of the movie (eg, Argo).

franticcaps
franticcaps
5 years ago

“Green Inferno” might be a weird reference to the phrase “a fierce green fire”, originally coined by Aldo Leopold and occasionally appearing in radical environmentalist literature. There’s a documentary about the history of the environmental movement that uses the phrase as a title (I haven’t seen it).

I don’t know – maybe the unfortunate white people are meant to be Deep Greens? I don’t really want to watch the trailer again but I thought someone said something a bit environmental near the start?

Here’s the Leopold quote in context:

We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes—something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.

ShakeB
ShakeB
5 years ago

Expect this to be the basis of the next round of weird angry Manosphere posts about the Ashley Madison hack. According to this post, only 12K of the 37million profiles (5.5mil identifying as female) were actually real women actually looking to have an affair.

http://gizmodo.com/almost-none-of-the-women-in-the-ashley-madison-database-1725558944

a.h.
a.h.
5 years ago

Wrong. Men aren’t the gatekeepers of sex. Our job is to increase our wealth until a woman selects us, then to continue increasing our wealth so that she’ll stay faithful, until we die.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

You know, this is theoretically something that an actual men’s advocacy movement would be concerned with – a scam that targeted tens of millions of unwary men and a hacker that plastered the victims’ personal information all over the Internet. It’s sick. But no, why go after the assbags who actually did this when there are completely unrelated women to whinge about! *rolls eyes*

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

*Unrelated and fucking imaginary, I might add.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

(Also, the comments on that article are disgusting. “Haha, desperate loser men got ripped off, haha!” What the fuck. Yes, the men are unfaithful douchebags, but nobody deserves to be scammed and doxxed. N o b o d y.)

Jurgan
5 years ago

“If this is true, why aren’t horny men lining up around the block for jobs as mailmen and poolboys?”

Heh.

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/the-plumbing-business-is-not-as-glamorous-as-the-p-10841

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@ a. h.,

Or maybe human beings don’t gauge relationships like they’re buying a car and looking for the best mileage? Maybe there’s a complex set of emotions involved, built upon a foundation of respect and empathy?

Just spitballin’ here, though. You go ahead and keep telling yourself it’s because you’re not rich enough.

(I am making fun of your ridiculously flat, simplistic opinion, if it isn’t clear!)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Wrong. Men aren’t the gatekeepers of sex. Our job is to increase our wealth until a woman selects us, then to continue increasing our wealth so that she’ll stay faithful, until we die.

Do you have a citation other than 80’s teen movies.

Tim
Tim
5 years ago

Women don’t have to exist, right? I mean, can’t women just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete – plus internet porn? Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex and childbirth – and then shut up? Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

a.h.
“Wrong. Men aren’t the gatekeepers of sex. Our job is to increase our wealth until a woman selects us, then to continue increasing our wealth so that she’ll stay faithful, until we die.”
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55408652.jpg

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

No, Fruitloopsie. I think the post directly above you is the dumbest thing you’ll read all day. And the creepiest too. What with the genocidal aspect and all.

saitonexus
5 years ago

Women don’t have to exist, right? I mean, can’t women just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete – plus internet porn? Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex and childbirth – and then shut up? Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

Okay I admit I am new here, but uh, this is some kind of attempt at parody or sarcasm, right? At least, I hope? o.o

If it’s NOT, then I’d have to just second Fruitloopsie.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

a.h. | August 26, 2015 at 4:49 pm
Wrong. Men aren’t the gatekeepers of sex. Our job is to increase our wealth until a woman selects us, then to continue increasing our wealth so that she’ll stay faithful, until we die.

The thing about the idea of men being gatekeepers of sex is that men also have the right to tell a woman “no, I don’t want to be in a relationship/have sex/do anything with you”. Women also have this right. It’s shocking what you can do as an autonomous human being, isn’t it?

It’s also hilarious that you think poor men don’t get laid or married. It’s literally like things don’t exist unless they prove some sort of point about your secluded little bubble, where everything you know about women is taught to you by men and shitty porn.

It’s quite a sad existence. I’m glad I’m not a woman who’s stuck in it with you.

Tim | August 26, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Women don’t have to exist, right? I mean, can’t women just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete – plus internet porn? Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex and childbirth – and then shut up? Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

Let’s try an experiment, shall we?

Men don’t have to exist right? I mean, can’t men just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete — plus internet porn? Can’t men just limit their influence over women for sex and donating sperm for childbirth — and then shut up? Your penis is only useful to me as long as I can fuck it for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up all the world’s resources is all you, dudes.

That doesn’t sound nice, does it, Tim?

I love how you think that women are somehow the only ones who can create kids. Like we just will it, and BOOM. Pregnant. It’s flattering.

Though, the science that will replace your “liquid fucking gold” with women’s bone marrow is long off, unfortunately.

Though, and trust me when I say this, y’all can’t fucking Go Your Own Way fast enough. Shoo.

Porn and onaholes exist, so what’s holding you here, Timmy? Not us.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Nah, I think Vox’s summary of his latest “Book” that Rabukurafuto posted in the Puppies thread is still dumber. It’s close, though.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger | August 26, 2015 at 10:00 pm
“No, Fruitloopsie. I think the post directly above you is the dumbest thing you’ll read all day. And the creepiest too. What with the genocidal aspect and all.”

The dumbest thing from trolls in the comment section I’ll read all day I should say. But then Timmy came along.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Women don’t have to exist, right? I mean, can’t women just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete – plus internet porn? Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex and childbirth – and then shut up? Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

comment image

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

You know what? Forget the meme.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Saitonexus,

http://img.pandawhale.com/164956-game-of-thrones-oh-my-sweet-su-N60y.jpeg

You won’t be this optimistic after a few times around the block here.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Is there any data on women vs. men ratio on Ashley Madison?

Ask, and ye shall receive…

Turns out that very few of the female profiles were genuine, judging by how many of them actually used the site. Mostly, it’s just a sausagefest.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Women don’t have to exist, right? I mean, can’t women just go away and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete – plus internet porn? Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex and childbirth – and then shut up? Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes. The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

Oh my. Somebody is jealous of his ex-girlfriend’s vibrator, isn’t he?

Wrong. Men aren’t the gatekeepers of sex. Our job is to increase our wealth until a woman selects us, then to continue increasing our wealth so that she’ll stay faithful, until we die.

Took the red pill, did you? Guess what, it’s Colace. No wonder you’re poopy!

Falconer
5 years ago

@Arctic Ape:

Tropical rainforest areas have been historically described as “Green Inferno” because they were generally unsuitable for white colonial settlement and unpleasant for white explorers and traders who visited there.

Pooping yourself to death: Nature’s way of saying “Stay home, jerkass.”

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

@katz

If that extends to a Kazakh stuck in the Russian Revolution, have I got a book for you.

Do tell.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Hah. Yeah, there’s a huge line of men waiting to be “selected” by an opinionated chubby (muscular, and quite healthy, thank you) nerd woman.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Jarnsaxa | August 26, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Hah. Yeah, there’s a huge line of men waiting to be “selected” by an opinionated chubby (muscular, and quite healthy, thank you) nerd woman.

Now, now, Jarnsaxa, everyone knows that nerd women don’t exist unless they’re pretending to be nerdy to get some poor beta’s attention and suck his life forces out like a succubus in a tight-fitting Star Wars T-shirt! [/sarcasm]

contrapangloss
5 years ago

I am also a nerd woman! Well, more of a geek?

I do not want to gain any beta’s attention or suck out any life forces. I would however, like to teach the world to math in perfect harmony.

saitonexus
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: lol
I’ve been following the blog for a while, but don’t always read through a lot of the comments. I know not the depths of scum and villainy that may yet lurk nigh… or uh, something. Point is, what I’ve come to associate with comment sections on WHTM posts are a bunch of regulars who seem to mostly say sensible things. Or post cat videos.

Or nerd woman it up. XD

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Dear Tim,

Women don’t have to exist, right?

Every fertilised human zygote has roughly a fifty-fifty chance of becoming female (I believe in Britain currently the ratio is slightly in favour of boys, but am not a biologist so can’t speculate as to why.) Therefore, women are an ever-present lurking danger in our biology. No matter how hard we strive, some people might be born as women. The only way to prevent it is to not have humans being born.

I mean, can’t women just go away

Many of them do go away, into feminist or women-only spaces. This is such a space. You appear to have followed them here.

and leave behind a replacement technology that makes them obsolete

Don’t be silly, women can’t technology. Their tiny little brains could never handle the difficulty of such logical thinking. Just ask Ada Lovelace. /s

– plus internet porn?

Who is going to pose for the internet porn if there are no women? Think about the logistics of how this works.

Can’t women just limit their influence over men to spreading their legs for sex

That doesn’t sound like influence to me. That sounds like the opposite of influence. Influence is when they get us to do things we weren’t inclined to do anyway. Are you saying that if a consenting woman you’re attracted to spreads her legs, you aren’t inclined to want to sleep with her and she’s forcing you to do it?

and childbirth

But if we allow childbirth, then we run the risk that people will have daughters! Which, as mentioned above, is the ever-real danger in our genetics which prevents us from living in a world of female nonexistence. Think, man, think!

– and then shut up?

I’m puzzled by the “and then.” Do you not want them to shut up during sex? I thought you didn’t want women to influence your desires for sex. This is something of a confused message you’re giving out.

Your vagina is only useful to me as long as I can use it in a hand like way for masturbation purposes.

Use a vagina in a handlike way?

That’s a very weird image. Vaginas aren’t prehensile, you know. They can grip somewhat, but they’re not very good at fine manipulation. Do you even biology?

Maybe I’m wrong though. Quick straw poll – who here has a handlike vagina?

The whole creating another cretin that will use up the worlds resources is all you, ladies.

Ah. So in fact you’re in favour of the extinction of humanity? Given your first line, this now becomes clearer. Please permit me to take a radical stance against this position, as I would quite like humanity not to go extinct.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Curse you, blockquote mammoth. I am against human extinction and against handlike vaginas, but I’m entirely in favour of the extinction of blockquote mammoths.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

If it makes you feel better, saitonexus, I also hope that Tim forgot his sarcasm tags.

Because otherwise…

…Yeah.

Tim probably didn’t forget his sarcasm tags, and it probably is a pathetic excuse for drive by trolling, but I like clinging to hope?

By the way, did you ever get a Welcome Package? If not, here you go!

contrapangloss
5 years ago

EJ, but the risk of being attacked by a blockquote mammoth helps us feel more alive!

As internet posters, we only truly can feel one with our posts when they are made under the threat of complete formatting carnage by a starving metaphorical pachyderm.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

Alan:

Literally it means ‘underneath’ hence the Hades connection. It’s the same root as ‘inferior’

Incidentally, there’s a similar concept in Finnish. That is, our pre-Christian Land of Dead was literally called “Underground” (or alternatively “Otherside”), a word whose archaic form (Manala) is now associated with Christian Hell (Helvetti). Also, there is still “go Underground” as a colloquial expression for death.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Artic Ape

Christian Hell (Helvetti).

So it *is* the Devil’s own font; knew it!

Terrabeau
Terrabeau
5 years ago

On Inferno Green: am I the only one who’s also getting a strong anti-environmentalist vibe from this trailer? From what I can tell, the young straw Green

(1) Tries to get the U.S. army to invade basically all of South America to stop illegal logging.

(2) Goes on a trip to the Amazon with a group of like-minded straw Greens to do – what exactly? Eco-terrorism? Live among nature? Tie themselves to trees? Pick any one of a hundred things not actually representative of Green politics.

(3) Learns through the power of racism that the rainforest isn’t as great as she made it out to be, and is saved from her own ignorance.

This is all eerily similar to the White Supremacist argument that people who aren’t as racist as them just don’t know how shitty other races are; it’s just an incredibly patronizing way of accusing their opponents of elitism. So, between the racism and the anti-Green sentiment, this movie should do extremely well with the American religious right.

drst
drst
5 years ago

Buttercup –

MRAs have such a huge blind spot for the fact that for women, rejection is baked right into the “men approach, women wait’ model. Men get to assess, evaluate, and choose up front, before they’ve even approached someone – which means they’re rejecting all the other women in the room

BOOM. Yes. Can I quote this elsewhere?

epitome of incomprehensibility

@contrapangloss:

…complete formatting carnage by a starving metaphorical pachyderm.

This made my day. Also @EJ with the phrase “handlike vaginas” 🙂

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
5 years ago

@Arctic Ape

Just out of curiosity: What are the original Finnish words?

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

Sadly The Green Inferno is for real, it’s a homage to my least favorite exploitation sub-genre, the Italian “cannibal” films of the 1970s and 1980s.

As the Wikipedia points out, the genre was influenced by the Mondo films, pseudo-documentaries that film very staged recreations of things that may or may not have actually happened as a breathless narrator tells the viewers how amazing and shocking everything on screen is. The most famous and fakiest Mondos are the infamous Faces of Death films. A lot of Mondo films were travelogues that featured native ceremonies and rites (fire walking! adult circumcision!) which purportedly revealed the mysterious hidden ways of isolated “primitive” tribes.

Looking for new subject matter for their gorefests, Italian exploitation filmmakers basically switched out zombies and organized crime for cannibals and, walla, the skeeziest and most racist cult sub-genre was born.

I’ve only seen the extraordinarily unpleasant Cannibal Holocaust, but I’ve heard they all basically have the same plot: a group of Westerners go to the jungle and get terrorized and killed by a cannibal tribe. The filmmakers were partly playing off of the 1961 disappearance of Michael Rockefeller, who was rumored to have been eaten by cannibals in a New Guinea jungle.

In Cannibal Holocaust, the found footage predecessor of The Blair Witch Project, a documentary crew has gone missing in the Amazon jungle but their footage was recovered and it makes up most of the film. We see that in order to get exciting Mondo footage, the film crew had terrorized the tribe, shooting their live stock, burning their homes and raping a young woman. The native people were quite reasonably pissed off at this point so they chase the filmmakers around in the jungle, kill them off and mutilate their corpses. The only female crew member, who had tried to stop the first rape, is raped before being killed.

I fucking hate this movie. Cannibal Holocaust manages to encapsulate everything that’s terrible about exploitation films while completely lacking everything that makes them good or enjoyable. It’s morally bankrupt, hell it pretends to be a snuff film, yet the director makes a hollow attempt at social commentary and/or a satire of the media since characters condemn the crew for attacking an entire village to get exciting documentary footage. I’d argue the main reason the director made the film crew incredibly obnoxious was so viewers would want to see these assholes grotesquely die.

For an extra bad vibe bonus, the film includes a very real sequence of someone butchering a giant tortoise on screen.

Again, I fucking hate Cannibal Holocaust, which is considered the Citizen Kane of Italian cannibal movies. I guess Eli Roth has affection for the genre but I very much do not, to the point where I don’t see how a worthwhile film will come out of a homage to this misbegotten genre.

Finally, in Cannibal Holocaust the doc crew do awful things and their deaths are a direct result of their actions so, at least theoretically in some way, the film sort of doesn’t vilify the native tribe. The activists in Green Inferno seem to be portrayed as naive do-gooders who presumably don’t deserve horrible fates, which means the native people are vicious and malevolent aggressors.

I don’t see how making Green Inferno was even remotely a good idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibal_film

skiriki
5 years ago

@Verily Baroque: Arctic Ape is probably sleeping, but I’ll chime in… both Manala and Tuonela have been used for the native variant of places of dead people. “Tuoni” was a god of death or harrower of the dead, along with Tuonetar, his wife. -la is a common ending for place names. Even today, “tuoni” is a synonym (albeit an archaic one) for death. “Tuoni tulee”, “death comes for you”, as an example.

In some versions you had to cross a dark river, and the Maiden of Tuoni (Tuonen tytti) was the one to row you across. Sadly, information regarding pre-Christian era beliefs are extremely scant when it comes to this.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

Thanks, Skiriki. I’m not an expert on folklore or etymology, I just assumed that Tuoni was a variant of Tuonpuoleinen, which I assumed to mean “Otherside”. Then Tuonela would translate as “Otherplace”. Tuonpuoleinen is sometimes still used in modern Finnish as an expression for afterlife.

I also have this shaky understanding that Manala or Mana is a variant of “Underground” which normally would be spelled maanala or maan alla. The etymology is somewhat obscure to modern Finns, who usually associate Manala with Hell or generic death. AFAIK, Hell is a word of Germanic origin, referring to a pagan deity of dead. It was then borrowed to Finnish in Christian context.

I read somewhere that Sami people, whose language is related to Finnish, imagined an underground “Heaven” or rather regular world but with better hunting grounds.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Helvetti?

So to the Finns, Switzerland is literally hell? I’m not a fan of Switzerland but I wouldn’t go that far.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

Helvetia is a funny curiosity, but a similar word for Hell was first formulated in Swedish (IIRC, Helvete). Maybe it originated from frustration because English-speakers tend to mix up the Swedes and the Swiss.