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a voice for men antifeminism Dean Esmay douchebaggery doxing drama kings entitled babies evil SJWs gross incompetence harassment lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability paul elam red pill twitter

“Better hope there is [sic] no skeletons in your closet,” Paul Elam warns those who allegedly lie about MRAs. “Playtime is over.”

That guy looks familiar
That guy looks familiar

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So earlier today, A Voice for Men’s head honcho, the neither lovely nor talented Paul Elam, threatened “yellow journalists” who allegedly lie about his so-called Men’s Human Rights Movement with, well, something pretty dire-sounding. I just can’t tell you exactly what.

[UPDATE: An archived version of Elam’s deleted post has been found; see here for a post on what it contains.] 

In an angry and ungrammatical tweet (archived here), Elam warned:

Paul Elam ‏@AVoiceForMen To all yellow journalists and publication execs who libel MHRAs. Better hope there is no skeletons in your closet. Playtime is over.

Elam spelled out what he had in mind in a “bulletin” on his site with the ominous title “The cost of libeling MHRAs is about to go up.”

But whatever was in this post was evidently so extreme (and possibly unethical) that even some of Elam’s followers were a bit concerned by it.

Elam thought better of the post himself, taking it down and issuing a rare apology. In the place where the post originally appeared, one now finds this:

What you are reading here now is not what was posted under this title earlier. What was here was a mistake on my part.

Afer several years of being attacked, quite unfairly, by media ideologues the most recent incident was published in my home town. After working all night, as I sometimes do, I was tired and obviously not at my best. I lost my cool and posted and tweeted something that was inconsistant with my own values, with the ethics we adhere to at this website and damaging to the efforts we undertake to serve men and boys.

Presumably the “incident … published in my home town” that Elam has in mind is a recent piece in the Houston Press that put Elam in tenth place on a list of “The 10 Most Embarrassing Houstonians.”

Elam responded to the piece a few days ago with a post of his own, declaring it a pack of lies and mocking the author for dressing up as Dr. Frank-N-Furter from The Rocky Horror Show. But apparently it was still eating at him. Maybe one of his neighbors said something to him about it.

Elam also seems to have been set off by a little Twitter battle with radio host Nicole Sandler, who at some point had GQ writer and Dartmouth professor Jeff Sharlet on her show. Elam has been gunning for Sharlet ever since he wrote an absolutely devastating account of AVFM’s first-and-probably-only conference last summer. Earlier today, Elam Tweeted:

https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/635418614275792896

(Here’s an archived version of the entire exchange.)

So what exactly did Elam threaten to do to those he thinks have “libelled” him?

The Tweets of some of his concerned followers may give us a few clues. Here’s one highly suggestive Twitter conversation (archived here). It starts with former AVFMer Dean Esmay, apparently an enthusiastic supporter of whatever it was Elam had proposed.

Dean Esmay ‏@deanesmay They are our Mandarin class. They aren't used to being called what they are: bigoted elitists. But the times are changing. @AVoiceForMen RETWEETS 2 FAVORITES 2 SwarupSarkarPaul ElamFeminism exposed 5:58 AM - 23 Aug 2015  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More Spinosaurus Kin ‏@spinosauruskin · 6h6 hours ago @deanesmay @AVoiceForMen I don't like this idea. This could easily backfire, and for what? A few cheap shots? Too much on the line. 0 retweets 2 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite 2  More Paul Elam ‏@AVoiceForMen · 6h6 hours ago @spinosauruskin @deanesmay Walk a mile in my shoes, then tell me about it. 1 retweet 1 favorite  Reply  Retweet 1  Favorite 1  More Spinosaurus Kin ‏@spinosauruskin · 6h6 hours ago @AVoiceForMen @deanesmay experience is irrelevant. It's not ethical. This will very likely backfire. 0 retweets 1 favorite  Reply  Retweet  Favorite 1  More View other replies Paul Elam ‏@AVoiceForMen · 5h5 hours ago @spinosauruskin @deanesmay inexperience is less relevant. Do u think this has not been considered at length by those with skin in this game? 0 retweets 0 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More Spinosaurus Kin ‏@spinosauruskin · 5h5 hours ago @AVoiceForMen @deanesmay I'm not interested in personal attacks. I'm interested in legitimate ones. This is handing them straw. 0 retweets 0 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More View other replies Dean Esmay ‏@deanesmay · 5h5 hours ago @spinosauruskin @AVoiceForMen Wait and watch, then make your criticisms. 0 retweets 0 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More Spinosaurus Kin ‏@spinosauruskin · 5h5 hours ago @deanesmay @AVoiceForMen maybe you're right. Either way it's not like I can stop it. 0 retweets 0 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More View other replies Dean Esmay ‏@deanesmay · 5h5 hours ago .@spinosauruskin @AVoiceForMen You may be right. Wait & see. But if you don't teach bullies that you'll hit back, they will keep hitting. 1 retweet 2 favorites  Reply  Retweet 1  Favorite 2  More TheMen'sFront ‏@TheMensFront · 6h6 hours ago @deanesmay @AVoiceForMen I don't know, are you sure you want to play their game? Wouldn't court action for slander be better? 0 retweets 1 favorite  Reply  Retweet  Favorite 1  More View other replies Paul Elam ‏@AVoiceForMen · 6h6 hours ago @TheMensFront @deanesmay Pursuing libel cases is prohibitively expensive and very hard to win, that is how they get away with this. 0 retweets 0 favorites  Reply  Retweet  Favorite  More View other replies Dean Esmay ‏@deanesmay · 6h6 hours ago .@AVoiceForMen @TheMensFront Yep. Only rich people and rich corporations can afford to sue, and these Mandarins know it very well.

In another Tweet, TheMen’sFront compared Elam’s proposed strategy to Register-Her.com, AVFM’s notorious fake “offenders registry” that posted profiles of feminists alongside those of convicted murderers and pedophiles and suggested that they too deserved to be jailed.

eselamreghertwit

If anyone has a screenshot or otherwise archived version of Elam’s original post, please send it along to me.

Even though he’s taken the offending post offline, it’s clear he was planning something sketchy enough to make even some of his followers worry. Given that Elam and his cultish followers already libel and harass AVFM’s assorted enemies with abandon, while claiming to be warriors of Truth, it seems clear to me that whatever he had in mind was fairly dire.

I don’t think Elam fully recognizes what a giant gift he has just given anyone who ever decides to sue him for libel.

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Susuwatari (@darkstatistic)

Man, now I really want to know.

Jef Rouner
Jef Rouner
5 years ago

I’m very interested in a copy of the original post as well, seeing as apparently I was to be a target of some plan.

Flint
Flint
5 years ago

“Better hope there is [sic] no skeletons in your closet.”

Why do I see this backfiring on Mr. Elam spectacularly, assuming he has his own skeletons?

Lady Mondegreen
5 years ago

I don’t have a subscription so I can’t check, but the Wayback Machine archive might have it.

http://archive.org/web/

Anyway, it’s telling, how he leaps straight for some over-the-top, unethical response, then when even HIS supporters are queasy, backs down, hides the evidence, and pleads stress.

Poor baby. I personally know feminists who’ve received online harassment for years. None of them behaved like deranged, vindictive assholes in response.

skiriki
5 years ago

Welp, I’m sure that it is a very cunning plan, so cunning that if you put a tail and whiskers on it, you could call it a weasel.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
5 years ago

David, I found it on Google cache. Elam might have tried to erase the original, but Google cache got it.

Google cache

archive.is of the cache

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

*checks closet*

Do ichthyosaur skeletons count?

scarlettpipstrelle
5 years ago

” something sketchy enough to make even some of his followers worry” -now that’s saying something!

tov01
5 years ago

@Alice Sanguinaria

So his plan was to harass anyone even remotely connected to his targets. Color me not surprised.

katz
katz
5 years ago

The relevant bit of that archived post:

So, you can bet right now that if Jeff Sharlet, Mariah Blake, Adam Serwer and a whole lot of other people have dirt in their backgrounds, we are going to dig it up and spread it around like gonorrhea in a whorehouse.

That goes for their family members and embittered exes as well. Two can play at that game and it is our turn.

Oh, and it also goes for every employee, especially senior management, at publications like Mother Jones, GQ, Buzzfeed, Washington Post, Time Magazine, The Houston Press, Maclean’s Magazine, and many more. Those who have libeled us, or work for a publication that has libeled us, and everyone they know is now fair game for a fair and certain return of what they have dished out. Unlike them, we will only print what we can prove.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
5 years ago

tov01 – Elam also wanted to publicize all of that “dirt” that they “dig up” — so basically like that register-her site.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Considering that all of that is pretty much the daily routine at AVFM, I wonder why they spoke out against it. Maybe they had a flash of self-awareness and realised that “Direct quotes, full context and enough proof to enshrine it into the fucking Constitution” isn’t exactly “Libel.”

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

They actually believe that Sharlet planted a guy to make them look bad? That is seriously rich.

katz
katz
5 years ago

They actually believe that Sharlet planted a guy to make them look bad? That is seriously rich.

Maybe Sharlet planted Paul Elam.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I kind of wish Paulie hadn’t turned back on this plan, because his followers were right – it would have backfired completely. Mind you I don’t want what he was threatening to do to actually happen to all those he named.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

‘we are going to dig it up and spread it around like gonorrhea in a whorehouse’

Good ole Paul, classy as ever.

You know, he may not have abandoned the plan, maybe he just realized how monumentally stupid it was to crow about such a plan in advance?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

After working all night, as I sometimes do,

Doing what?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I remember the good old days when AVFM just wrote about beer.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

And dried up chicken followed by industrial gelatin, the food of champions.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Well, this is gonna be great.
comment image

scarlettpipstrelle
5 years ago

So, since the original post is archived, are ” Mother Jones, GQ, Buzzfeed, Washington Post, Time Magazine, The Houston Press, Maclean’s Magazine, and many more” aware of what was written?

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

I’ve just read the Houston article that got Paul’s boxers in a bunch. I notice none of the other nine people on the list have turned up in the comments section accompanied by their flying monkeys, could it be that Paul is just a little bit insecure?

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

Out of sheer morbid curiosity I took a look at Paulie ‘s rebuttal.

The most facepalmy moment has to be ‘I didn’t say the Cosby accusers were drug whoring star fuckers I merely asked if they were’

… apparently framing virulent victim blaming in the form of a question is suddenly not victim blaming. In other news, is Paul Elam a raving misogynist who promotes hate speech? Hey, I’m just begging the question.

Judas Peckerwood
Judas Peckerwood
5 years ago

Playtime is OVER?!!! When did it START?!!!

Faint Praise
Faint Praise
5 years ago

I’d guess Elam abandoned this plan because he has no way to follow through. AVfM has made indistinguishable threats for as long as I can remember.

When a local feminist/environmental group circulated info about AVfM prior to their conference, Esmay repeatedly promised there was a story in the works with all their dirty laundry.

Or just check the top of the threat, where Elam pretends his opponents are planting pedos and using honey pots. Those are all familiar claims from his earlier responses, when he’s promised to prove dirt on his enemies and failed to find anything real.

There’s nothing they can say that is new, let alone believable about these people. They’ve shot all the ammo they have already.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Moocow

Hey, I’m just begging the question

Ooh well done sir!

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

Is he annoyed that he only scraped in at tenth place in that list of embarrassing Houstonians? If he goes ahead with his plan, he could easily make it into the top five next year.

Catalpa
5 years ago

Unlike them, we will only print what we can prove.

http://simpsonswiki.com/w/images/thumb/c/cd/Edna_Krabappel_Marcia_Wallace_tribute.jpg/180px-Edna_Krabappel_Marcia_Wallace_tribute.jpg
Oh man, nice joke, Paulie. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.

Ashley
5 years ago

His followers were absolutely right about how it would backfire. Even he was intimidated by his own threat. Hilarious.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Moocow,

I also just had a little looksy at Paul’s rebuttal. Funny, in regard to his ersatz white ribbon campaign site he states:

‘Neither myself nor Erin Pizzey have taken a single penny from anyone in donations to the site. There is not even a donation button to be found there.’

Yet when you click on the link he provides, there’s a donate button, right there. Admittedly these donations are only being collected to form a ‘war chest’ against possible legal actions, but when did AVFM last take a case to court? That Honey Badger business seems to have fizzled out along with the fundraiser.

Catalpa
5 years ago

Though, I am also a bit puzzled at why Elam’s followers are taking exception to this plan when the MRAs and their close relatives the ‘gators have been slinging muck, harrassment, and libel at individual women in their sights for YEARS now. I suppose I’m just surprised that they’re smart enough to realize that going after large publications that have money and political clout is significantly more dangerous than screaming anonymous threats at individual women would be. And maybe they’re also leery about subjecting men to the level of harassment that they are totally fine with shoving onto women.

makingfitzcarraldo
makingfitzcarraldo
5 years ago

If Elam specified “everyone they know” as women they would be all for it.

Shaenon
5 years ago

I like how Elam assumes everyone has bitter exes with lots of embarrassing dirt on them. No, honey, that’s just you.

I’ve just read the Houston article that got Paul’s boxers in a bunch. I notice none of the other nine people on the list have turned up in the comments section accompanied by their flying monkeys, could it be that Paul is just a little bit insecure?

When Tila Tequila is more mature than you, you have a problem.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

That Honey Badger business seems to have fizzled out along with the fundraiser.

Well, dang. I was hoping to hear more from Clown Car Brigade country…

yutolia
yutolia
5 years ago

What if they’re just skulls?

@Flint: I think Paul still has some skeletons… Although a lot of this is in response to some of his skeletons coming out of the closet, I think.

CCD
CCD
5 years ago

Oh, Paulie… no one posts lies about you, or takes things out of context. We just easily quote you the many, many, maaaaaany times you forget to don what I affectionately refer to as your “human suit” and do the whole song and dance where you act sort-of-civil and like you actually give a shit about real men’s issues. You just make it so easy when you forget the facade so often and let your true ugliness show for all of the internet to see.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

If I’m being honest, I wouldn’t mind having a collection of skeletons in my closet. There’s so much you can learn from bones, as well as tons of stuff you could do with them!

I’d like to maybe make some real bone Bone Charms from Dishonored someday with all the metal work and rings and the like. *sigh* That’d be cool…

Also, and I’m just wondering, isn’t Esmay calling people “Mandarins” racist as hell? Because I’m pretty sure that is.

Oh, and suing someone for libel or slander is actually very hard. Especially when you can’t prove they slandered or libeled you because they quoted you directly. :/

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention

Here you are! http://www.skullstore.ca/

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

Is Paul Elam a scientologist? The “fair game” thing practiced by Scientologists has been around since L Ron Hubbard and co.’s “Operation Snow White”…

msexceptiontotherule
msexceptiontotherule
5 years ago

LRH also targeted Asians (in general, sometimes specific) with his racism.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@David,

maybe Elam took it down, or the image he links to is old? If I can find it I’ll post it to the new thread.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@David,

he’s changed the link since last night, now when I click on it it takes me to the Wikipedia page. Last night it went to their white ribbon site, and there was a donate button requesting money for potential legal fees. Should have screen capped, sorry 🙁

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

‘I didn’t say the Cosby accusers were drug whoring star fuckers I merely asked if they were’

Ah, Betteridge’s Law of Headlines, how I missed you.

dslucia1
dslucia1
5 years ago

The one thing that annoys me the most about how manosphere-types constantly go on about “lies and slander!!!” is how it means that impressionable people on the internet will look at stories involving them and go, “Oh, well maybe they’re just being taken out of context.”

And then you start seeing otherwise-mostly-well-meaning people begin conflating Tumblrites with all of feminism and the whole conversation goes to hell because of “but BOTH SIDES DO IT” nonsense.

spacelawn
5 years ago

So it’s actually about ethics?!?!?!?

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

When David Irving’s career and reputation ended up being destroyed by a libel action, a lot of people assumed that he must have been the defendant. Actually, he was the plaintiff, and this was an unexpected but immensely welcome by-product of him trying (and rather spectacularly failing) to silence Penguin Books.

Why I’ve been reminded of this story just now I can’t imagine.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Rabid Rabbit | August 24, 2015 at 1:03 am
@Paradoxical Intention

Here you are! http://www.skullstore.ca/

*looks at the site*

http://replygif.net/i/765.gif

*looks at the price tags*

http://cdn4.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/suite-life-of-zack-and-cody-london-fainting.gif

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Also, and I’m just wondering, isn’t Esmay calling people “Mandarins” racist as hell? Because I’m pretty sure that is.

Well…yes and no. Mandarins were the ruling class in pre-modern China. So he’s apparently accusing journos who cite him, Paulie, et al, verbatim of being members of a do-nothing ruling class that grew their nails long (to boast that they didn’t work with their hands), bound their women’s feet (to show that THEY didn’t work, either), and got carried in sedan-chairs by brawny servants everywhere they went. Which is ridiculous even on the surface of it, because journos DO work, long nails would only get caught in the keyboard, and bound feet are no good for applying shoe leather to track down a story. None of them travel by sedan-chair, either, although if they’re lucky, they might be able to afford a gently used sedan (of the four-wheeled kind).

But yeah. Deano could just as easily have said “lords”. It would have taken fewer keystrokes, too.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

“Mandarins” was taken over to mean other things, though. For instance, you’ll find peole talking about the “Mandarins of the British Foreign Office” and things like that — the higher-ups who know everything and rule everything behind the scenes. To a large extent it’s a fancy way of saying “elitist”. In my dialect, at least, “Mandarin” doesn’t even suggest China unless you’re specifically talking about Chinese history, or the language, of course. “Lords” doesn’t have the same connotations of educated know-it-alls.

Not saying that Esmay isn’t being racist, but part of me would honestly be surprised if he actually knew the historical origin of the term.