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Eager for excuse to call women whores, Paul Elam attacks Valentine’s Day 6 months early

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Love is all around

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It must be strange indeed to live inside the head of Paul Elam, founder of Men’s Rights garbage site A Voice for Men. What must it be like to be so filled with hatred of women — and flowers, and candy — that you find yourself writing a 1300-word denunciation of Valentine’s Day, not on the holiday itself, but six months early?

In a recent post with the lovely title “Time for a National Whore’s Day or something,” Elam warns us of the impending approach (some six months from now) of the dreaded holiday, which he describes as “another manufactured binge of male shame-spending on women who claim to love them.”

And he’s just getting started. 

There are many aspects to The Big Day financially. Candy, flowers, jewelry, fine dining, champagne, romantic getaways and a lot of other things that mandate men to empty their wallets. That’s so the women in their lives can be reminded of their speshulness and maybe give a little poon in return.

It is fair and accurate to say that offering up the poon is about the only expectation of women on this day of “romance.”

Apparently on some terrible Valentine’s day in the distant past Elam sprung for a half-dozen wilted roses and a deluxe Whitman’s Sampler and his, er, beloved refused to “offer up” the obligatory “poon.” And he’s been furious about it ever since.

Elam cites an unnamed survey claiming that

over half of women surveyed said they would end a relationship if they were not given something on Valentine’s Day – which is to say that 53% of the women surveyed are whores, and just like more garden variety whores, they will take a hike when they aren’t being paid.

This alleged statistic is the prime bit of “evidence” for Elam’s “argument” that women are a bunch of flower-obsessed “whores.”

So where did he get it? Elam cites a dubious site called “Statistics Brain,” which claims to have gotten it from a 2015 survey conducted for the “Retail Advertising and Marketing Associatio [sic].”

I tracked down the group’s 2015 survey, and the numbers on “Statistics Brain” don’t match the numbers in the original. Nor is there any mention of what percentage of women would leave their partners if they didn’t get V-Day presents.

Doing a bit of Googling, I found multiple references to this 53%, sometimes attributed to Statistics Brain, but without any hint as to where it actually originated. An article earlier this year in the New York Daily News claimed it came from a survey by WalletHub, but that “survey” turned out to be nothing more than an infographic, which didn’t give sources for any of its specific figures, attributing the bunch of them to a variety of sources including “news reports.”

So am I saying that Mr. Elam grabbed onto a questionable stat of uncertain provenance because it matched his misogyistic preconceptions, without bothering to check where it came from?

Survey says … yes!

Naturally, Elam returns to this dubious factoid later in his post.

What happens to roses after you shell out some hard-earned cash so you can give them to a woman who will kick you to the curb if you don’t cough up her petals? That’s right, they look and smell good for a very short period of time. Then they become useless discards, like the majority of relationships and at least 53% of surveyed vaginas.

Nice. And again:

If the woman who “loves” you hinges that love on whether you shower her with frivolous, wasteful presents; if she will leave you if she doesn’t get them, then just stick a C-note in her whorish little bra, show her the door, and find yourself another whore who is a lot more honest about how she does business.

And if the man who “loves” you writes 1300 word rants about Valentine’s Day … in AUGUST, run like the wind.

I’ve never actually been a big fan of Valentine’s Day myself, but the fact that it makes Elam this pig-biting mad makes me feel a bit warmer about it, I have to say.

 

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Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Paul Elam satirizes Paul Elam.

ShakeB
ShakeB
5 years ago

@FruitLoopsie: A bit late, but if we are giving drink recommendations for someone starting out, my favorite: Shot Vodka, Shot Triple Sec, Add Sprite/7up/Tonic&lemon to taste and desired intoxication*. Should be easily palatable while still having a kick.

*if that’s “very” substitute 151 for vodka.

ShakeB
ShakeB
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

That’s how I was with heavier/darker beer (and before that beer at all). Now I like stuff so hoppy if I don’t set it down quite gently after opening it foams over.

Alcohol is an acquired taste, it feels good, it doesn’t taste good, but associate one with the other enough…

Stella
Stella
5 years ago

Man, sometimes I just feel so sorry for these MRA dudes. It must be awful to live life entirely driven by fear and hatred and resentment. They really are completely missing out on so many awesome things. Personally, I love valentines Day, because I love all holidays. Last year my boyfriend and I went to the Renaissance faire and had an awesome time, because our schedules don’t permit us to spend a lot of time together. And yes, he did get me a bracelet, not because I expected it or to obligate me to have sex with him, but because he saw it and thought of me. It was a really fun and special day, because we got to spend it together. These dudes are so consumed with hatred and the belief that women are conniving harpies who are using famine wiles to manipulate them that even the idea of domeone wanting to spend time with them just because they like them, without any ulterior motives,is completely inconceivable to them. And that’s really a shame, because they’re missing out on amazing experiences. Of course, then I remember the things they believe and preach and my sympathy for them fades considerably. Still, their lives must be pretty miserable and I truly hope they can somehow come to see how toxic this world view is and leave it behind. Their lives would be so much better for it.

estraven
estraven
5 years ago

Happy birthday, Fruitloopsie and all who were born this month. My birthday is tomorrow (the 23rd). I have always hated the time of year that my birthday falls in–the late summer insect chorus etc. And I have had some birthdays where bad things have happened in my life. I tend to fall apart around birthday time. But anyway, we don’t do Valentine’s Day–my husband was drafted during the Vietnam War but signed up for the Air Force so as to avoid the Army, and he went into the AF on Valentine’s Day. We weren’t married yet. I spent the whole day in my bedroom, crying. We did get our kids candy and small gifts on Valentine’s Day when they were little. Still, nothing wrong with Valentine’s Day if couples want to celebrate it.

Paul Elam. What an asshat.

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

When Elam begins a sentence with “it is fair and accurate to say”, you know that bullshit will follow.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

Happy Birthday, Estraven, Fruitloopsie (21!), and A. A. Wils (39!). I hope you all have (or had) a lovely time on the Big Day.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@ Maggie

When Elam begins a sentence with “it is fair and accurate to say”, you know that bullshit will follow.

My thought exactly. Plus it’s filler. Blah, blah, blah, whores!, blah, blah, poon!, blah, blah, gold diggers!, blah, blah, blah…

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Happy birthday to Fruitloopsie, A A Wils, Estraven and all others born at this time of year. You are the summer children, and even though winter is coming, this is a nice time of year to get older.

On alcohol, I was very privileged to go to an event run by my friend R. recently in which she taught us the history of the Gin Fizz cocktail. It was more interesting than it sounds, because the Gin Fizz’s history is almost a microcosm of how people in the West entertained one another, and it’s influenced heavily by things like the advent of refridgeration, the availability of distilled drinks and the social attitudes to drinking.

We drank like five of the things, plus a helping of the stuff that people drank before it was easily available. As such the talk got more interesting and more meandering as it went on, and included ranting from R. about how VERMOUTH COMPLETELY RUINED MIXOLOGY FOREVER which must have added up to about 40 minutes.

The Gin Fizz with egg white in it is very light, inoffensive and sparkly. Based on what I learned there I would recommend it to anyone who wants to drink alcohol but doesn’t want it to taste too bitter. In particular, if you get a chance to try it New Orleans style, do so.

guest
guest
5 years ago

From the Piper link:

‘A woman who is a civil engineer may design a traffic pattern in a city so that she is deciding which streets are one-way and, therefore, she is influencing, indeed controlling, in one sense, all the male drivers all day long. But this influence is so non-personal that it seems to me the feminine masculine dynamic is utterly negligible in this kind of relationship.’

I have to admit I’ve never thought of my job that way before.

Oh, and my 50th birthday was the 16th–I walked from Hunstanton to Wells, then had a beer on a boat. Not bad as birthdays go.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Kat,

thanks for the link to the Salon article, it’s good reading. I’m trying to use Amazon less generally. Who knows, maybe they will decide to take punitive measures against Roosh, given that he’s a small fish and it might help their PR. If that happens I’ll be starting up a petition against the Pearls and their child abuse manuals.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Adding to the voices of confusion around why he’s publishing this in August. DUDE. IT’S NOT EVEN CHRISTMAS YET.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Re: Valentine’s Day – I would only end a relationship over it if: 1) The relationship was not yet serious; 2) The guy up and decided not to do anything all on his own, without asking how I felt about it, getting preemptively defensive about how he knows this offends my spoiled-rotten femininity, but PRINCIPLES. I should be GRATEFUL he is refusing to celebrate this day.

I really couldn’t give a rip about Valentine’s Day as a tradition, but it does serve a somewhat useful purpose in identifying selfish dudebros. I’d be totally cool with my SO discussing, “Hey, I think Valentine’s Day is kinda weird and consumeristic and artificial. I’d really rather not celebrate it. What do you think?” That’s a whole different ballgame than going, “UGH, why should I get YOU anything?”

Also: 100% of the couples I know who celebrate Valentine’s Day do sweet things for and with *each other*. I dunno where all the “Give me flowers and mayyybe we can do something sexy” women are.

@Alan:

Now I’m no theologian but this is the bit I don’t understand:

“God made men and women equal. Therefore the bloke’s in charge”

What am I missing?

I *am* a theologian (an amateur one, anyway), and you’ve pretty much summed it up. There’s a leading book on the subject that straight up answers the question, “Are men and women equal?” with “Yes and no.”

Nope, it doesn’t really get any less awful in context. And it relies on some extremely tenuous arguments from Scripture. The complementarian take on Genesis 1-3 is a truly breathtaking exercise in eisegesis. (Sorry, had to make an attempt for Google points!)

@katz:

Well, if you wanted to be generous about it, Christianity (theoretically) has a rather different conception of leadership, last shall be first and all that, so being the leader wouldn’t necessarily mean you were more important.

Of course the most patriarchal branches of Christianity are the ones that follow the “servant leadership” concept the least. And then there’s the whole “a husband and wife are like Christ and the church” thing; I don’t think many of them believe Christ and the church are equals.

So at the end of the day the only hermeneutic they seem to be following is “interpret the Bible however protects my delicate manfeels.”

Yes, pretty much all of this. I am a Christian, and I absolutely agree that leadership is meant to be a role of service. But I am convinced that you cannot be a “servant-leader” while constantly trying to make sure that a group of people (i.e. women) know their place (i.e., lower in rank than the speaker). If you think that it’s godly to get offended when a woman tells you what to do, you definitely haven’t examined what biblical servanthood means.

On a slightly unrelated note, I get extra annoyed by the “I’m not feminist; I’m egalitarian” dudes—because in theological circles, “egalitarian” means “the opposite of a complementarian” and includes an awful lot of actual feminists. It makes it that much harder to clearly talk about it, especially if you’re stepping outside of the theology-nerd bubble.

C.S.Strowbridge
C.S.Strowbridge
5 years ago

“Eager for excuse to call women whores, Paul Elam attacks Valentine’s Day 6 months early”

Maybe he thinks his site won’t be around in six months. There are signs he’s struggling for money.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

’m egalitarian

This interests me; and comes back to that ‘defining words’ issue that crops up from time to time.

Before stumbling across this site I wouldn’t have known that ‘egalitarian’ was a bit of a dog whistle when used by certain people in the context of discussions about feminism. I would still regard it as something generally laudable if it was used in its ‘everyday’ sense. I suspect a random survey of my friends who produce the same result; especially my French friends, they positively rave about that sort of thing once a year.

Similarly with ‘thug’. I understand that has certain racist connotations in the US. In the UK has a fairly neutral meaning and just conjours up a certain type of brutish criminal. If you said to most UK people ‘draw a stereotypical thug’ it would probably some variation on a heavy set white guy with a broken nose and close cropped hair (or an Indian looking assassin if someone knew their history).

I can completely understand the rules on a site like this taking a ‘lowest common denominator; approach where people are wary of using words that may have negative connotations in some places if not in others. It stops mis-understandings.

I’d be reluctant for that to catch on generally though. Whilst I’m a committed Atlanticist, I’m less keen on US cultural hegemony. So I’m not fond on the argument tat “well, it means this in America so it should also mean it in England’. You’ve already put a McDonalds on every street 🙂

I think there’s also a danger when people who have a particular passion for social justice issues start to use the definitions of words as Shibboleths (thought I’d stick in a theological reference as there’s a lot of experts on here) for testing who’s ‘really’ on board.

The ‘dictionary definition’ issue is something I’d not seen before. I think it could be problematic in that it can be used to exclude people who actually support social justice issues and indeed are highly active in doing something about them just because they use words in their generally accepted sense.

I understand for instance that racism affects black people far more than it does white people, but to say racism has to mean prejudice + power means we have to totally redefine racism from its normally understood sense (and prejudice probably).

This was something we actually had a big public debate about in England a while back. We ended up with something called the McPherson Report. [As an aside I’d recommend something like that in the US to address what’s going on there]

Ironically that report did produce a suggested term ‘institutional racism’ to cover the idea of prejudice + power. It seems to have entered into common parlance and is generally accepted.

I do find all this quite fascinating anyway and it ties into all that stuff about some women (even though they clearly believe and support the tenets of feminism) refusing to use the term and how men who support feminists should identify. So I just thought I’d throw it out there. We still have six months to resolve the Valentines Day stuff. Well, by the sounds of it, six months + the day after.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Oops, that teal deer is meant as a response to Kootiepatra’s comments on “I’m egalitarian”

ikanreed
ikanreed
5 years ago

Re: Egalitarian

I find it totally okay to self-identify that way, as long as you don’t misunderstand feminism to be a non-egalitarian identity movement. Like the same way I don’t want to force the atheist label on “agnostics” who don’t believe in any gods. Or homosexual on everyone with same-sex attraction.

Labels are just labels. But if you combine the rejection of a label with ignorance about what it means, you’re an asshole. Agnostics who hate atheists are assholes. People with same sex attraction who hate gay people are assholes. “Egalitarians” who hate feminism are dishonest jerks.

Michael Brew
5 years ago

To be fair, Chinese Valentine’s Day was this past week. Maybe he’s just showing a little cultural appreciation. Or… depreciation?

BritterSweet
5 years ago

Thanks so much, Pandapool! Finally a version of it without the screaming fans. Though it may be too late, as the screaming still appears in my head during Garnet’s line…

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@Kootiepatra
Re: servant-leadership

There is what you said in play when it comes to complementarians. I find as well that (in their very fluffy way) they tend to put as little responsibility on the husband as possible. If he cheats: wife’s fault. If he beats her: her fault. If he fails to hold up his wedding vows in any way: her fault. Yet, despite an absence of accountability, he is to be leader and make household decisions. But when you try and pin them down on how that’s so unfair to the wife, they go: “but scripture says he has to DIE for her if they’re attacked!* Isn’t that enough of a burden for him?”
Except that in white suburban America, how likely is that scenario going to happen? Yeah. Thought so.

*the Bible doesn’t actually say that.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Sunnys

Isn’t that enough of a burden for him

The discussion of different responsibilities reminds me of the old TV programme ‘;The Young Ones’ when one of the characters is complaining that he always has to do the cooking.

“That was the agreement Neil. You do the cooking and I take care of the plants and the goldfish”

“Yeah, and what was the first meal you made me cook?”

“Er, sausages I think. Yes, it was a Thursday so it was sausages”

“Sausages and…?”

“Well ok, sausages and plants and goldfish; but my point still stands”

chronically lurking
chronically lurking
5 years ago

Valentine’s day is the best excuse to engorge yourself on chocolate with your loved one (then do it again when it all goes on sale, of course!).

chronically lurking
chronically lurking
5 years ago

Or with yourself. I don’t judge!

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

So since when did Paulie need a legitimate excuse for a rant?

The ‘egalitarian’ thing would be fine if it weren’t based on the implicit idea that feminism is a female-supremacist movement. I suppose you can find a few female-supremacists (at times I myself feel like I would support a female-supremacist movement — it couldn’t possibly be as bad as male supremacy) but in fact this view is at least 99.44% projection.

@Alan: I have no problem with lorries and such, but I think it would be a good thing if words like “fanny” and “twat” had the same meaning on both sides.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

katz

What I don’t get about dogs is we all know their sense of smell is 1000 times better than ours or whatever, so how are they fine with smells that are strong enough to knock us out?

It’s always got me too. I love watching nature docos and there’s always this thing about various animals’ sense of smell. Where smell=godawful stench. I realise that they can pick up all sorts of identifiable details that we can’t … maybe because we’re dizzy reeling from aforesaid overwhelming pong. But describing their nose as “sensitive” seems to be a misuse of the word. Strong might be better.

Wine
For all those venturing into the wild and wonderful worlds of alcoholic drinks. Wine. I used to think that I disliked red wine. However, I did seem to have a “nose” for identifying young wines that were likely to mature well.

Having bought a couple of hundred cases (a lot of wine was extremely cheap, less than 1$ bottle, at the cellar door during the late 70s for various reasons) we finished up with many dozens of well matured wines after several years. At which point I discovered I really, really like red wine. It just has to be very high quality, very well aged red wine. Which usually translates into much more expensive than most of us can usually afford. (We also had friends with an underground cellar where most of our stash stayed for 10+ years. Kept it beautifully.)

Valentine’s Day
My mum’s birthday and wedding anniversary were on Valentine’s Day so I’d always been used to celebrations anyway. When mrmagnificent and I first got together, we’d been friends for almost 10 years and we were both in the throes of separating from our first marriages. There never was a ‘first date’ or any identifiable occasion when our relationship got started or got ‘real’. So, once we decided/realised this was a long term thing, we looked back and selected Valentine’s Day as a near enough is good enough day to settle on as when we really were first ‘together’ as a couple.

So we give little gifts, cards or go out or do something quite often but not always. It’ll be 40 years next February so I expect we will certainly do something this time.

apple trees and vegetables
Not at all related to the earlier link. This might be one of the best ideas ever made possible by the internet. A couple from my city, Adelaide, started this and there are people all over the world signing up. You don’t even need to have a veg garden or anything else to offer – you can put in the details of fruiting trees or herb plants you’ve noticed on public land.

Try Ripe Near Me. http://www.ripenear.me/ I’ve found a couple of sources of free eggs near us and any number of lemon trees.

Dvärghundspossen
5 years ago

A dog’s sense of smell is clearly not our sense of smell but merely amped up. I think it’s more analogous to our eye-sight. We have good eye-sight, but we have a lot of choice about what we want to focus on. If I go into a room decorated in glaring, neon colours, specifically looking for a grey sock, I can focus on and find the grey amidst all the neon.Also, if I spend enough time in that room, I will get used to all the glaring neon colours, but that doesn’t mean that I can no longer see them if I want to focus on them. A dog’s sense of smell seems to work in analogous ways. I train one of my dogs in track and search, and she can clearly choose to focus on a very, very, very faint smell among much stronger ones… and the smell doesn’t “disappear” for her just because she has smelt it for a long time. I don’t think it’s really possible for us to imagine what it would be like to have their sense of smell. If we try to imagine our own sense amped up, that’s clearly not how it works.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

RE: egalitarianism

In a perfect world where every word meant exactly what it said, egalitarianism would be a great movement. (Not sure it would be needed in a perfect world, but I digress.) By the same token, the men’s rights movement would also be a good organization that focused on helping men overcome issues with toxic masculinity, suicide, racism, homophobia, etc, instead of a movement based around harming everyone who isn’t a cis het white dude who toes the party line. We don’t live in that world.

Basically, there’s a good reason why people who support bigoted and awful causes pick nice, euphemistic names for their movement.

LeeshaJoy
LeeshaJoy
5 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention, I have a friend who calls those days “the Feast of St. Markdowns.”

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Cats pick up proteins when they smell and taste things and proteins are pleasant to them. We distinguish between the smell of bacon frying and stinky, sweaty shoe. For a cat they both smell good because both the sweat and the meat contain proteins. That’s why cats like to eat ear wax and sniff your feet. Maybe it’s similar for dogs?

Scarlettathena
5 years ago

Happy birthday to all the August birthdays out there!

Sorry I’m late to the comments here, but I just wanted to comment about VD. I don’t personally know any woman who thinks the holiday is *only* about a man buying her a bunch of expensive gifts and taking her to dinner. Everyone is different. Lots of people don’t even celebrate it, really, but those that do see it as a moment to take a little time for their relationship. (As well as a lot of parents give their kids candy.)

I really don’t like the commercial aspect of all the holidays and I don’t like the pressure to attain some kind of social status by spending money on junk you don’t need. My husband has given me the same card for about a decade now. He’s got it hidden away somewhere and he pulls it out when he brings me a morning coffee. He thinks it’s hilarious that he just gives me the same card! I usually get out a card from another occasion (we get lots from charities looking for a donation) and cross out “birthday” and put in “Valentine’s”. We do this fro all holidays: cross out “Thinking of you” and put in “Happy anniversary” or “Sympathies” and write in “Happy Birthday!” We sometimes reuse a card someone has sent us, cross out their names and put ours on the signature. It’s best to give this to the original sender.

My favorite “Christmas” card was a picture of a great horned owl on a perch. When you opened it, my husband had written as the text “blow it out your ass!” Merry Christmas indeed!

ikanreed
ikanreed
5 years ago

@Catalpa

A fair point. I can’t think of a single right-wing organization with an honest name.

Scarlettathena
5 years ago

Oh, and about those women who would leave a man because he didn’t get her something on VD – if this is true, and I’m sure for some women it is – it may be more about “what a thoughtless jerk” than “why didn’t my walking wallet buy me a diamond and champagne?” This would especially be the case if the woman regularly bought the guy little gifts including something for VD, and he just shrugged his shoulders.

Also, it’s amazing that these dudes think that the woman is exchanging sex for gifts. How about she feels that VD is a time of bonding and thinks of your gifs as a sign of regard for her, a sign of your relationship, and she is happy and wanting to share intimacy?

Dvärghundspossen
5 years ago

Weirwoodhugger: Maybe that’s part of the explanation. I also remember reading in a book by an etologist specializing in dogs that they have so much more brain power devoted to analyzing and dealing with scents than we have. If I remember correctly, the brain tissue in our brains that is devoted to dealing with an analyzing smells, if spread out so that the wrinkles go smooth, would be about the size of two stamps. The corresponding tissue in a dog’s brain, when spread out smoothly, would cover seven square meters. So whereas smells just hit us, we’re largely just passive receivers of them, dogs can probably handle them in a whole different way.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Some sculptor made models of various creatures where the body parts were proportional in size to the amount of brain that was dedicated to them.

Dogs unsurprisingly were mainly nose.

People of course had huge…..hands 😉

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

AVfM calls itself “Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry.” This is obviously classic bafflegab for “Women who don’t recognize the superiority of men are evil harpies.” But the truth won’t sell.

dudeinthewoods
dudeinthewoods
5 years ago

I have a Great Pyrenees that I use as a livestock guardian and I often wonder if she rolls in pig manure to disguise her own scent. Coyotes and wolves have a strong sense of smell but it might help cover her from raccoons, fishers and other assorted poultry killers?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Nequam | August 21, 2015 at 9:51 pm
@Paradox, Pandapool: I agree with you about All Souls’ Day Find Discounted House Decor! Some places have surprisingly nice and durable stuff, like the two claw bowls– all metal! Target had a couple years back:

I got some good sturdy plastic cups a couple years back from target with some lovely skulls on them.

I’m happy that these big-box stores are getting in on making better Halloween decor, for those of us who want to live like the Addams family on the cheap. :3

LeeshaJoy | August 22, 2015 at 1:23 pm
@Paradoxical Intention, I have a friend who calls those days “the Feast of St. Markdowns.”

Ah, Saint Markdowns, the patron saint of discounts, sales, and BOGOs.

Though, while Black Fridays are in the spirit of Saint Markdowns, I don’t appreciate the way we’ve turned it into a bloodbath. Saint Markdowns wouldn’t approve of such violence.

apeculiarpersonage
apeculiarpersonage
5 years ago

About the John Piper link, and dealing with men in general: I once had a (very complementarian) professor who spent half an hour trying to convince me and another young woman that what women really want in relationships is to be protected by men. Listening to a middle-aged man trying to convince two young women that he knows what young women want better than they do was exactly as ridiculous as you think is was.

On a more fun subject, my mum and I are making liqueur out of the black currents that she grows. Right now it’s just a massive jar of mashed fruit and vodka sitting in a dark cupboard until October. 🙂

Philip Rose
5 years ago

I must thank this Elam person. he just reminded me to calendar Valentine’s day right now so I don’t have to run around like I always do looking for a last minute gift.

ColeYote
ColeYote
5 years ago

> If the woman who “loves” you hinges that love on whether you shower her with frivolous, wasteful presents; if she will leave you if she doesn’t get them, then just stick a C-note in her whorish little bra, show her the door, and find yourself another whore who is a lot more honest about how she does business.

You know, I might actually agree with that sentiment if he wasn’t so goddamn sexist about it. And since Elam’s the type who wouldn’t think twice about dumping someone who “doesn’t put out enough,” it’s a bit hypocritical, too.

katz
katz
5 years ago

Right now it’s just a massive jar of mashed fruit and vodka sitting in a dark cupboard until October

If it were me, the jar would never last. Snitching from it would just be too tempting.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
5 years ago

I would not be surprised if some reasonable percentage of women (or people in general) would consider ending a relationship if they didn’t get anything for Valentine’s Day. For better or for worse, it’s a gift-giving holiday and people general expect something unless they’ve agreed not to exchange gifts. It’d be nearly like not getting your significant other something for their birthday or Christmas. You have a right to be kind of upset about it.

But on the other hand, I seriously doubt there are many women who would consider ending a relationship if their partner didn’t get them chocolate, flowers, jewelry, and an expensive meal. Most people who celebrate Valentine’s Day don’t bankrupt themselves to do it, and the women typically give something as well (other than “poon”).

If there is any villain in the Valentine’s Day story, it is jewelry sellers who try to convince people that giving expensive jewelry is expected. No, you do not have to buy your girlfriend or wife a diamond bracelet every holiday. Your wife doesn’t expect it (unless you are, like, bazillionaires). The unpleasant pressure you are getting is from advertising, not women in general.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

If there is any villain in the Valentine’s Day story

It’s Al Capone surely?

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

@Alan: I remember a TV special with Nigel Marven where CGI was used to give him the proportions of the sensory homunculus (yeah, those proportionate sculptures have a name).

It was creepy as FUCK.

footnotegirl
footnotegirl
5 years ago

Is it the case in other people’s relationships that only the woman gets special stuff on valentine’s day? Because in both my marriage and my previous long-term relationship, it’s always been, you know, joint? Reciprocated? Hubby and I kind of go back and forth on who makes it a bigger deal one year or the next but we always do something for one another, it’s never one-sided. Then again, I’ve never seen any MRA description of relationships that matches the way any relationships I’ve seen in reality actually work.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

@snOrkmaiden

thanks for the link to the Salon article, it’s good reading. I’m trying to use Amazon less generally. Who knows, maybe they will decide to take punitive measures against Roosh, given that he’s a small fish and it might help their PR. If that happens I’ll be starting up a petition against the Pearls and their child abuse manuals.

You’re welcome.

My local independent bookstore can get me just about anything I want. But I know that not everybody has one nearby.

And I totally, totally, totally agree with you about the Pearls. Their child abuse manuals actually upset me more than Roosh’s rape manuals do. If you start a petition against their books, let us know.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

I had not heard of the Pearls. I was shocked but not surprised. Organized religion (particularly the fundie kind) seems to attract sadsts who would like to pass their criminality off as god’s will.

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Funny play on words Michael Brew 🙂 I’m not generally especially into Valentines Day (we have Feb 1, 17, and 20th birthdays so usually kind of broke in February) however my hubby proposed to me on Valentines Day (6 months after we were married but that’s beside the point) with pink and white M&Ms that said will you marry me, so I do have nice thoughts in general about the day. I was a single mom for a lot of years so totally with everybody on the day after holidays. I always bought my kids costumes after Haloween to play dress up in.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

deniseeliza | August 22, 2015 at 4:37 pm
If there is any villain in the Valentine’s Day story, it is jewelry sellers who try to convince people that giving expensive jewelry is expected. No, you do not have to buy your girlfriend or wife a diamond bracelet every holiday. Your wife doesn’t expect it (unless you are, like, bazillionaires). The unpleasant pressure you are getting is from advertising, not women in general.

Wasn’t the idea of diamond engagement rings also a jewelry company thing too?

I know that there have been engagement rings for centuries (Victorian times saw rings made of human hair, those sillies), but I don’t recall diamond ones being too popular until around the 1900s, a century after the DeBeers Mining Company found their huge-ass diamond mine in Cape Cod and would later control 90% of the world’s diamond production.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Yes. It was, what are their names? De Beers? Yeah, it was the De Beers in the 1910s-20s that started pushing diamond engagement rings.

They also hold either a monopoly or close to one on diamonds and there’s a SHIT TON out there they are holding back to cause artificial inflation.