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Fight for the real victims of prostitution: Pimps and Johns, idiot demands

Evil prostitutes exploiting men
Evil sex workers exploiting men

So The Independent recently ran a piece by Catherine Murphy of Amnesty International, explaining why the organization is calling for the decriminalization of sex work.

In the comments, someone calling themselves THEMISHMISHEH offers a unique take on the issue.

And by “unique” I mean “seemingly from another planet.”

Shades of Tom Martin, huh?

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Handsome "These Pretzels Suck" Jack (formerly Pandapool)

@WWTH @Axecalibur

Huh, thanks. I guess Big Government would have to take away state and city rights to make that happen.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

hygiene products are not needs

So now you’re for free bleeding, MISHMASH? Or do you think menstruation is voluntary? (Oh, yeah, I get bloated and pimply just for fun! Passing clots is awesome! I love it when a favorite pair of underpants gets stained! WOOHOO PARTY DON’T START TILL MY CRAMPS KICK IN!!!!!!)

why should food be taxed and not feminine hygiene products

Where I live, food and clothing aren’t taxed.

You need to stop getting by on your looks, MISHMASH, and work on your brain more.

http://gifoid.com/wp-content/uploads/beauty-gif.gif

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

I just really can’t get over the whole ‘sex is necessary, personal hygiene products are not’ thing. I mean… I just…

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PtqzL-T2RPU/UYkZ6EqYtGI/AAAAAAAAH5k/bBYhVzINkqM/s1600/2103-youre-a-special-kind-of-stupid-arent-you.jpg

comment image

(Never mind that good hygiene helps people get laid…)

Dalillama
Dalillama
4 years ago

@Handsome Jack

I think the only way that would feasibly work is if certain people paid their taxes at different times of the year (1/12 of Americans paying tax in January, 1/12 in February, etc.), plus maybe the rich get a tax hike because there’s no way a flat tax raise can work well with lower-income households when many are struggling as it is.

No, a flat tax is a dreadful idea. So is sales tax, and VAT for that matter. Hiking taxes on wealthy individuals would help (especially if we taxed capital gains at the same or, preferably, higher rates than earned income ), but we’d principally want to make up the difference by cranking the corporate income taxes way up. Eliminating the automatic tax exemptions for churches would also help.

@WWTH

In the US, a lot of states have constitutional requirement to balance the budget

Which is just as bad an idea for them as the Feds, but it’s easier to modify state constittions, which us why fiscal conservatism has managed to destroy so many state budgets.

(((VioletBeauregarde))): Social Justice Necromancer
(((VioletBeauregarde))): Social Justice Necromancer
4 years ago

@LindsayIrene: Right? MISHMASH seems to think that we menstruate just to inconvenience everyone, especially him (?)

BTW, I added “Hygiene products are technically not needs” to my WTHM Troll Bingo

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@CAPSLOCKGUY

Do the Doukhobors — you know, the pacifist Russian Canadian Spiritual Christians who protested in the nude — also offend you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doukhobor

Or is it only young, attractive women who protest in the nude who offend you?

What’s up with you parroting 4chan — a cesspool of foul language and vile thought — but protesting our rudeness on this website?

Are you aware that there are many, many women’s rights groups that do not practice nudity and such? Off the top of my head, in the USA there are the Young Women’s Christian Association, the American Association of University Women, the National Organization for Women, and the League of Women Voters. Possibly you have some feminist groups in your part of the world who eschew the practices that you find so offputting?

You are aware that this website mocks misogyny — it says so at the top of the page. So why are you fastidious about not accepting mockery directed toward you? Aren’t you a tough guy who can handle rudeness?

Asking for a friend.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

Or is it only young, attractive women who protest in the nude who offend you?

Well I mean OBVIOUSLY it’s this one. Women being naked makes men think about sex, but these protesting women are NOT offering free sex to any man who might get a hankering for it. Therefore they are sexually exploiting men for their own gain! There is nothing these dastardly feminists will not stop at!

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Catalpa
It does seem to be the case. And if MISTER CAPSLOCK won’t defend himself (because we are so rude), we must assume that our worst ideas about him are 100 percent true.

THEMISHMISHEH
THEMISHMISHEH
4 years ago

@Lindsay

do you think menstruation is voluntary?

Finger nails grow and we all produce sweat and waste products. These are other examples of involuntary biological processes that require practices conducive to maintaining hygiene. All their products are taxed. Why do you feel you are entitled to special treatment as a woman in regards to taxation of feminine hygiene products? This is telling of your sexist gendered ideology.

(Oh, yeah, I get bloated and pimply just for fun! Passing clots is awesome! I love it when a favorite pair of underpants gets stained! WOOHOO PARTY DON’T START TILL MY CRAMPS KICK IN!!!!!!)

You are a STRONG woman, so get over it AND INDEPENDENT, so pay your own way in life as apposed to asking others to subsidise your ‘needs’.

‘sex is necessary, personal hygiene products are not’ thing

my argument, in this thread, concerning sex was that it was not a need…

Where I live, food and clothing aren’t taxed.

You are playing semantics.

@Kat,

is it only young, attractive women who protest in the nude who offend you?

The behaviour of these feminists doesn’t offend you? it is fair in your eyes?

Would you approve of this being done to you by men? would you approve of a male forcibly rubbing his private parts against you in protest of the ‘matriarchy’?

Their physical appearance does not matter to me. Your comment seems to imply that its important.

It’s interesting though, how the majority of these women, are thin, young and ‘attractive’ and very far from the average …think about the hypocrisy and double standards of femen in this issue, truly unparalleled. Here we have a ‘popular’ feminist organisation who protests in the nude and only takes on ‘thin’ and attractive young women for that purpose.

What’s up with you parroting 4chan — a cesspool of foul language and vile thought — but protesting our rudeness on this website?

By this logic if I support and reference the banning of vivisection by the Nazis, then I am Nazi.

Are you aware that there are many, many women’s rights groups that do not practice nudity and such? Off the top of my head, in the USA there are the Young Women’s Christian Association, the American Association of University Women, the National Organization for Women, and the League of Women Voters. Possibly you have some feminist groups in your part of the world who eschew the practices that you find so offputting?

And not all ISIS members are head choppers too. We are chatting about an ideology here, a distinct system of ideas and ideals.

How many of these groups that you named in the comment above have shown up to SlutWalks, FreeTheNipple parades, Femen and ‘Pussy Riot’ demonstrations in protest of nudity? None.

Mrex tried to justify the professor’s behaviour in attacking that girl by saying that the pictures were grotesque. My reply to her was that this is especially hypocritical coming from someone subscribes to an organisation world renowned for its disgusting methods of protest.

Slutwalks, FreeTheNipple parades, bum-rushing events full children butt naked, pissing on pictures in public, or even stealing a chicken from a shop and sticking it up your vagina in protest of the ‘patriarchy’… You are the last people on this planet to be offended by ‘grotesque’ protest, was my argument, as it is one of your main staples.

Take the comments left by your feminist colleagues in this thread as an example for what the majority of you stand for; pettiness, mockery, foul language and hate with a non-existent minority of decency and respect. Take the replies to the Israeli article where feminists successfully managed to cancel a law charging women with rape of men, as an example for what the majority of you people stand for. Every single reply to that reference was supportive or trying to justify it. You people are blind followers of a foul, vile cult. There are thousands of articles and hundreds of books and studies by feminists in support of vile methods of protest. It is systematic.

You are aware that this website mocks misogyny — it says so at the top of the page. So why are you fastidious about not accepting mockery directed toward you? Aren’t you a tough guy who can handle rudeness?

Mockery is a destructive (as apposed to constructive) form of communication. It is extremely damaging. It discourages those whom you mock from listening to what you have to say and taking it seriously. It acts as a substitute to reasoned debate and therefore a barrier to positive change. It is a lot like censorship. It dismisses what people who disagree with you have to say without addressing what they have to say and showing it to be lacking. It is a tool of a morally bankrupt people lacking a case for their cause. An ideology that promotes such traits in its followers is one that is lacking. Think about it.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

THEMISHMISHEH | August 20, 2016 at 5:21 pm
Finger nails grow and we all produce sweat and waste products. These are other examples of involuntary biological processes that require practices conducive to maintaining hygiene. All their products are taxed. Why do you feel you are entitled to special treatment as a woman in regards to taxation of feminine hygiene products? This is telling of your sexist gendered ideology.

Uh, where did anyone say that we only wanted our products not taxed? That we wanted “special treatment” for having vaginas? Where did anyone say that? Quotes please. And no, whatever your straw feminist said doesn’t count.

I know I said we shouldn’t tax any hygiene products at all, because it would be far better for those who might be homeless or lower income to help maintain a level of hygiene that is acceptable by society. Without them, they can’t apply for jobs or get help from outsiders because they’re stuck in this vicious cycle of “I need a job but I can’t get one because of my lack of hygiene”.

We shouldn’t tax any of these things. We shouldn’t be taxing laundry soap so we have clean clothes, we shouldn’t be taxing deodorant so we can smell nice, we shouldn’t be taxing any of these things, and I even think we should have a certain level or certain brands of this stuff available for free to those who need it and can’t afford it.

There was a news story recently about a school in my state that implemented washing machines in their schools for lower income kids. Kids would bring in a bag of laundry and the school would help them wash it.

You know what the result was? Kids came to school more often and were more excited about coming to school. They missed fewer days because they could afford to have their clothes washed and weren’t afraid of being ostracized for their lack of access to hygiene products.

This is what happens when people have access to hygiene products instead of being shamed for not being able to afford them, and this just re-affirms my belief that giving people access to free hygiene products is nothing but good.

You are a STRONG woman, so get over it AND INDEPENDENT, so pay your own way in life as apposed to asking others to subsidise your ‘needs’.

Says the person who thinks that sex workers asking people to pay for their services is akin to being a sexual predator.

Also, no one was asking for someone to subsidize their personal needs, but rather the needs of billions of people. (Millions, if we’re going country by country.) Not to mention that those billions of people are the only ones who go through menstruation, and the rest of the world does not.

How is asking for help for a specific problem I face on account of having a vagina that a person with a penis doesn’t face sexist? I mean, it’s not like we’d tax pads and tampons for penis-havers either. If you really wanted CAPSLOCK, you would also be able to go out and purchase tampons and pads completely tax-free. No one is saying you can’t have them. You would also not be taxed for these products.

What your argument essentially comes out as is: “I don’t think people with vaginas should have access to specific hygiene products tax free because I wouldn’t get something tax free too!”

Because we can’t do anything without also catering to cis dudes, yeah?

By the by, who ordered the Word Salad? What kind of dressing would you like with that?

(Not-so-Fun story: When I worked as a waitress, I asked a couple this question, and they said they wanted salsa because it was healthier, which I thought sounded like a tasty idea. The man said he’d give me an “extra special” tip if I did so. I did as they asked, was nothing but kind and helpful for their entire stay, and they left me a religious brochure that looked like a dollar bill as a fucking tip. That’s it. No actual money. Don’t do that, kids. Service workers really depend on those tips to survive! Jesus would want you to help those in need and not be an asshole!)

my argument, in this thread, concerning sex was that it was not a need…

That’s not what you said at all. I can literally scroll up to the original post and point it out. We are capable of reading, dear CAPSLOCK. And you didn’t refute your original argument. You haven’t changed your stance at all.

You’re literally calling sex workers “sexual predators” for asking for pay because it’s “exploiting” men and boys (who voluntarily give this money to get this service).

And I quote your original comment: “They prey on weak, vulnerable people who need help desperately.”

So, what do they need “help” with, CAPSLOCK?

And if sex for money is “exploitation”, then what is sex without compensation? (Someone else asked this and you appear to have ignored them.)

Mockery is a destructive (as apposed to constructive) form of communication. It is extremely damaging. It discourages those whom you mock from listening to what you have to say and taking it seriously.

Assuming that those across the way are actually interested in what we have to say in the first place.

Case in point: you marched in here completely unwilling to hear what any of us have to say, and yet, you still expect us to listen to you and give you the benefit of the doubt and treat you as though you’re worthy of our time despite the fact that you’ve compared us to the Nazis for being feminists and are trying to play Holier Than Thou?

Why do you believe that you’re entitled to a debate, and why do you feel like you’re entitled to our niceness?

It acts as a substitute to reasoned debate and therefore a barrier to positive change.

Assuming that those across the way actually have arguments worth discussing and debating.

See, the problem with a lot of peeps who share your particular beliefs is you believe that everything you think is worthy of debate, regardless of how wrong it actually is.

You believe that the idea that sex workers are sexual predators is worthy of debate, despite the fact that, on its face, the argument is ridiculous and demeaning, and has no basis in facts or reality (as others here have actually spent their time demonstrating).

Lots of Manospherians believe that women are the cause of all their problems because a number of us refuse to be house-cleaning blow job dispensers. Is this idea worthy of debate? And if it is, do you honestly think that people who think like this are willing to listen to what we (a group of mostly women and non-binary folk) have to say on the subject? Do you truly and honestly believe that people who hate women are going to listen to what women have to say about their beliefs?

Because I believe that they, much like you, are so entrenched in their own colon huffing their own flatulence that conversing with a brick wall would be more productive.

It is a lot like censorship.

Considering that you literally have everywhere else in the world and the internet to spout your ideas, and you are perfectly capable of finding someone (or a community of someones) who will agree with you without question, no. No, it’s not. We’re not censoring you by mocking you. We’re simply mocking you.

You have the option of going elsewhere. You have the option of talking to people who agree with you. Just because we don’t, and we’re choosing to mock you (on top of straight up explaining why you’re wrong) doesn’t mean we’re “censoring” you.

It’s a silly idea, and quite frankly, I’m tired of hearing it from everyone who marches in here with an anti-feminist chip on their shoulder. Martyrdom isn’t a good look for anyone.

It dismisses what people who disagree with you have to say without addressing what they have to say and showing it to be lacking.

Except we do address their ideas and show them to be lacking? And then we mock them? I’m literally doing both right now. To you. Several people have explained to you why you’re wrong, and you’ve patently ignored them. Because they were meanie pants, apparently.

Why are these ideas mutually exclusive to you? Is it because mocking means we don’t immediately defer to you as someone worthy of talking seriously to?

It is a tool of a morally bankrupt people lacking a case for their cause.

comment image

An ideology that promotes such traits in its followers is one that is lacking. Think about it.

I did. Your ideas have been weighed, they have been measured, and they have been found wanting.

You have done nothing but demonstrate your dedication to the cause of being as wrong as humanly possible, and quite frankly, I’m not willing to hear anymore, considering it’s not I, nor any of my fellow Mammotheers that has the problem of not wanting to address other people’s ideas. (Protip: It’s you.)

Good day, sir.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@PI
1st, stop it, he’s already dead 😀

2nd:

Uh, where did anyone say that we only wanted our products not taxed?

Right? Plenty of people mentioned food, diapers (oh nevermind, childrearing is women’s work), medicine, clothes, soap, I even brought up bottled water. Listen, MichelinMan or whatever the fuck your name is. If you don’t wanna be mocked, start by paying attention to what people say

Also, I like how he claims it’s sexist to advocate, low tax, no tax, or free ‘feminine hygiene products’, cos what about teh menz. Question is, are there any specifically male products like that? Not counting Axe Body Spray. Is there a Winter’s Adam Masculine Cleansing Wash? Is it pH balanced for a man’s P? Where’s this discrimination, and why can’t any of us see it? Rhetorical question, btw. The answer is obviously feminazism

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
4 years ago

@mishmash

You seem to think that there is a world wide feminist conspiracy organised and militarised against you and your brethren, but this is not the case. There is no feminist Hydra, one entity with many heads, and when you chop one off, two grow back in its place. The feminist ‘United Front’ is a figment of your imagination. Women are all individuals, not a Borg hive mind hell bent on the destruction of men. That’s just an MRA fantasy.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Troll,

Maybe if you would stop arguing against opinions none of us expressed and start engaging with the arguments we actually do make, you’d get the sophisticated and intellectual debate you’re claiming to crave. If you are not going to argue in good faith, there’s no reason for us to treat you as a serious person and a worthy adversary. Our only real options are to mock or ignore you. Since you keep coming back here, you probably like the attention and don’t want us to ignore you. Accept the mocking with gratitude.

In case you’re too dense to get what I’m talking about, I’ll give you the condensed version of the current thread topic.

You: “Evil feminists want tampons to be tax free because they want special female privileges! Sometimes other products people need to survive are taxed! Checkmate feminists!”

Everyone else: “Actually, we don’t think other necessities should be taxed either. Many of us live in places where many necessities are tax free but menstrual hygiene products are still taxed:

You (completely ignoring everything we just said): “You want special female privileges for your silly female products! That’s just like ISIS!”

Now do you see why it’s pointless to try and have a serious discussion with you?

Also, what do you think about the comments made by fellow anti-feminist Andrea Hardie? You know, the one about nuking Mecca? Why won’t you answer?

sevenofmine
sevenofmine
4 years ago

I like how THEFUCKWIT laments the inefficacy of mockery when mockery has been a huge part of his own schtick (the other part being making shit up and presenting it as objective truth).

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

Why do you feel you are entitled to special treatment as a woman in regards to taxation of feminine hygiene products? This is telling of your sexist gendered ideology.

Elsewhere in this discussion, I mentioned that I thought that diapers and toilet paper ought not to be taxed, either. Hmmm. I see you think that me pointing out that there are places where food and clothing aren’t taxed is ‘semantics’. Ooookay then.

Let’s all look at a baby panda. It’s smarter than MISHMASH.
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Like MISHMASH, this kitten is flailing, but it is much more adorable.
comment image

Like MISHMASH, this dog is not too bright. But it’s cutee.
comment image

I have no smartass intro for this gif. It’s a baby heffalump.
comment image

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

There was a news story recently about a school in my state that implemented washing machines in their schools for lower income kids. Kids would bring in a bag of laundry and the school would help them wash it.

I work in a middle school that serves an area with a lot of poverty, and many of the students’ parents have addiction or mental health issues. We have a washer and dryer, along, with a supply of ‘loaner’ clothes (plain pants and shirts). We also have free breakfast available to the entire student body before the school day starts. Free feminine products, milk, and snacks are available in the nurses’ office. It definitely keeps the truancy rate down.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

Oh, geez, I missed this gem:

You are a STRONG woman, so get over it AND INDEPENDENT, so pay your own way in life as apposed to asking others to subsidise your ‘needs’.

Um, so, when I buy groceries and clothes and am not taxed for them, are others subsidizing me? Or does it only count for things I buy for my cooter? TAX THE COOTERS!

Smithshadow
Smithshadow
4 years ago

Warning: Long

@ THEMISHMISHEH

Mockery is a destructive (as apposed to constructive) form of communication. It is extremely damaging. It discourages those whom you mock from listening to what you have to say and taking it seriously. It acts as a substitute to reasoned debate and therefore a barrier to positive change. It is a lot like censorship. It dismisses what people who disagree with you have to say without addressing what they have to say and showing it to be lacking. It is a tool of a morally bankrupt people lacking a case for their cause. An ideology that promotes such traits in its followers is one that is lacking. Think about it.

Leaving aside all the other ‘information’ you have shared with us, it seems important to refute your comment quoted above.

You describe mockery as destructive. Historically mockery and satire have been used by poets, playwrights, philosophers, etc. to bring attention to a situation which is less than fair.

Please note: the following comments do not delve very deeply into the subject matter but provide a basic overview.

In Ancient Greece, Aristophanes wrote Comedies which were performed at dramatic theatrical festivals. These plays often examined the political situation of the time and often mocked powerful political figures. Often he was highlighting issues within Athens, including the improper use of political power by the rich and influential. This raised debate and discussion amongst the Athenians, in a society which was considered, at the the time, to be a democracy.

Ancient Rome also produced a number of writers who also mocked and satirised rulers. Juvenal, Horace, Lucillius amongst many others looked at their society, found fault with it and then satirised it. Again, it raised these issues and often mocked those who believed in their Imperial right.

Celtic Ireland celebrated mockery as a way of bringing to light the wrong doings of people, without the shedding of blood. It was considered a right to be able to mock anyone, from a High King to a tanner.

There are many other writers which could be mentioned include Jonathan Swift, Erasmus of Rotterdam, Voltaire, Samuel Clement, William Makepeace Thackeray, Dorothy Parker and Jane Austen. (Please note this list is by no means exhaustive). Each of these writers mocked the elements of society which they believed were wrong, trying to bring these wrongs to the attention of readers.

From your statement, it would seem you are arguing these writers were/are extremely damaging. Jonathan Swift was morally bankrupt? As was Samuel Clement?

Sorry, but I must be reading all these books incorrectly as most of them appear to be exposing the morally bankrupt. Actually, if I recall correctly, most academics have also stated this possible interpretation on the works of these writers.

Or, perhaps you, THEMISHMISHEH may, perchance, (not to be rude or anything) have an imperfect understanding of mockery and satire.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@LindsayIrene
Those baby animals are so cute!

@Smithshadow
Thanks for that spot-on discussion of satire and mockery. I believe that I’ve read every one of Dorothy Parker’s short stories, plus a biography of her.

@CAPSLOCKGUY

The behaviour of these feminists doesn’t offend you? it is fair in your eyes?

On the contrary. I think that these feminists’ tactics are a bad idea. On the other hand, here, have some context:

Tens of thousands of women took to the streets in Mar Del Plata, Argentina, on Monday to protest the high incidences of gender violence and femicide in the country. The march was a part of the National Women’s Encounter, a yearly meeting of women in Argentina, where approximately 65,000 women spoke out against the culture of misogyny and violence towards women. Around 1,800 Argentine women have been the victims of femicide (defined as the killing of women because of their gender) between 2008 and 2014, and the government has done very little to intervene for women’s safety.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/117082-anti-femicide-protests-in-argentina-are-its-womens-way-of-making-sure-their-voices-are-heard

What’s up with you parroting 4chan — a cesspool of foul language and vile thought — but protesting our rudeness on this website?

By this logic if I support and reference the banning of vivisection by the Nazis, then I am Nazi.

If you support banning vivisection, that doesn’t make you a Nazi.

If you use the Nazis as your reference — yuck! Why would you do that if you’re not a Nazi?

If I love dogs or think that eating healthy food is a good idea, I’m sure as hell not going to refer to Adolf Hitler to make my argument.

Nor would I show up at a Halloween party dressed as Eva Braun.

Provocateur much, CAPSLOCK?

And the fact that you think 4chan, a place where individuals speak about women in the most disrespectful terms, is on the right track does make you a misogynist.

You people are blind followers of a foul, vile cult. There are thousands of articles and hundreds of books and studies by feminists in support of vile methods of protest. It is systematic.

That’s simply not true.

We are not “you people”; we do not follow anything blindly. There is no cult. And no, there is not a massive amount of writing by feminists supporting vile methods of protest. The most cursory look at, say, Ms. magazine or the writings of Gloria Steinem — both widely read in the USA and also read internationally — would tell you that.

Smithshadow
Smithshadow
4 years ago

@ Kat

I agree. Dorothy Parker is worth reading.

Handsome "These Pretzels Suck" Jack (formerly Pandapool)

I want everyone to know that I got Tropical Skittles the other day and pineapple is still the best.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
4 years ago

Good lord is MishMushy still here banging his drum? It’s been days since he first necroed this thread.

@PI
That was epic. *applause*

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

@Handsome Jack

Thank you for weighing in on Skittles.

@CAPSLOCK PERSON

Are you aware that there are many, many women’s rights groups that do not practice nudity and such? Off the top of my head, in the USA there are the Young Women’s Christian Association, the American Association of University Women, the National Organization for Women, and the League of Women Voters. Possibly you have some feminist groups in your part of the world who eschew the practices that you find so offputting?

Pick one:

How many of these groups that you named in the comment above have shown up to SlutWalks, FreeTheNipple parades, Femen and ‘Pussy Riot’ demonstrations in protest of nudity? None.

You people are blind followers of a foul, vile cult. There are thousands of articles and hundreds of books and studies by feminists in support of vile methods of protest. It is systematic.

You can’t have both.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

OMG guys we need to start protesting nudity! First, the maternity wards–who do those babies think they are, sliding out of the womb butt-nekkid?

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

And the mothers! They’re (partially) naked when they give birth. What an example to set for their newborns!

THEMISHMISHEH
THEMISHMISHEH
4 years ago

@Smithshadow

Your reply is a breath of fresh air.

Its nice to read a comment that is so well mannered, comprehensive and eloquent. You seem to have an appreciation for the importance and power of good manners in debate. It is an effective way to have a people who disagree with you listen to and entertain what you have to say and treat you in kind.

in your reply you provide an interesting overview that gave me a history of mockery that was lacking a rational counter argument. Let me elaborate by asking you the following question:

Are you, for example, saying that mockery does not act like censorship by dismissing what people who disagree with you have to say without addressing what they have to say and showing it to be lacking? what is your rationale for this? That Astrophanes the Greek comedian (emphasis on the word comedian) used mockery in his comedy? Additionally, are you referring to that same Astrophanes who’s works were, and I quote, ‘serious’ when it came to issues of politics and war? this same Astrophanes who described his methods as follows:

“The butts of the most savage jokes are opportunists who prey on the gullibility of their fellow citizens”?

This is your rationale for mockery as a positive form of communication?

I think it is important to stop here and define mockery before I carry on any further. In the Webster’s Dictionary, mockery is defined as 1. scornful derision or ridicule 2. A specific action of derision or ridicule 3. An object of scorn or ridicule 4. A false, derisive, or impudent imitation 5. Something ludicrously unstable or futile. You come across like a rational person. Tell me (and please be fair) do these words sound like labels for a positive form of communication? would you enjoy having what you stand for be subjected to such behaviours? would you entertain ridicule or derision? would you entertain impudent imitation? would you entertain communication that is ludicrously unstable and futile (emphasis on the word futile)?

You also seem to have an affinity for philosophy (which is rare and admirable) to which you made a reference in regards to mockery. Philosophy is an informed guide for behaviour. So, lets have a look at what philosophers have to say about mockery. It is a subject area that is scarcely entertained in philosophy. Nonetheless there are some works on mockery and vitriol but these are extremely (extremely being an understatement) diverse and contrary. Some views portray mockery as a negative. Such are the views of philosophers like Spinoza, Hume and Schopenhauer. Others hold a somewhat positive view of it but that it should only be used with constraints or be good natured. Such are the views of Shaftesbury and Nietzsche.

Baruch Spinoza totally rejects the idea of mockery. In his Political Treatise he declares that:

“Mockery and ridicule rest on a false opinion and indicate an imperfection in he who mocks and ridicules.”

On the other end of the spectrum we have Shaftesbury (a philosopher hostile to religion) who has the following opinion of mockery:

“one of the true principle lights that truth should bear is the exposure to mockery. If an opinion cannot stand mockery then it will be revealed to be ridiculous’ It is important to note here that his definition of mockery is not that of Webster’s but rather one that he defines as ‘hilaritas’ or ‘good natured’, which is far from the nature of mockery on this website.

David Hume, a philosopher who was also hostile to religion, one who succeeded Shaftesbury, had this to say about his predecessor’s views on mockery:

“mockery does not lead people from god unless the scientific project offers a more compelling explanation for the phenomena” This is how atheist philosophy came to lay the foundations for a scientific theory (evolution) to disprove god rather than mockery, which was the practice at the time.

Additionally, Nietzsche, who supports mockery had this to say about mockery and its conditions. Quoting Descartes, he writes:

“As for mockery, which constructively admonishes vices by making them appear ridiculous, but in which one does not laugh at them oneself or express any hatred against anyone, it is not a passion but a quality of a cultivated man”. Importantly, Descartes defines mockery in this context “as a kind of joy that is derived from that WHICH ONE RECOGNISES AS INCAPABLE OF BEING INURED BY THE MALICE THAT HAS EXCITED AN INDIGNATION”. The emphasis here is on the capitalised portion of his definition for derision, which ‘one recognises as incapable of being injured by the malice’ (of the act of mockery), which again, is far from the nature of mockery on this site.

So no matter how you look at it, whether you do that through the eyes of philosophers for or against mockery or by taking its english definition, mockery as it is on this website is negative and destructive.

@Kat

On the contrary. I think that these feminists’ tactics are a bad idea. On the other hand, here, have some context:

Protesting physical and sexual abuse of females by physically and sexually abusing males makes a lot more sense now that you have put it into context.

If you use the Nazis as your reference — yuck! Why would you do that if you’re not a Nazi?

It is an example. If I were (for example) writing about the history of vivisection in Europe. I might need to make a reference to this. Referencing a people does not mean I support their ideologies. I knew this was going to come up in regards to 4Chan so i made sure that i was careful in what I wrote about that issue so as not come across sounding like I support these behaviours and when i referenced them I made sure to annotate what they did.

We are not “you people”; we do not follow anything blindly. There is no cult. And no, there is not a massive amount of writing by feminists supporting vile methods of protest. The most cursory look at, say, Ms. magazine or the writings of Gloria Steinem — both widely read in the USA and also read internationally — would tell you that.

This is the same Ms. Magazine who’s editor Robin Morgan wrote that:

“I feel that man-hating is an honourable and viable political act”?

Pick one

How many of these groups that you named in the comment above have shown up to SlutWalks, FreeTheNipple parades, Femen and ‘Pussy Riot’ demonstrations in protest of nudity? None.

You people are blind followers of a foul, vile cult. There are thousands of articles and hundreds of books and studies by feminists in support of vile methods of protest. It is systematic.

You can’t have both

You claimed that there are feminist groups out there who disapprove of nudity. So my question was that these are ‘political activists’ so why aren’t they protesting feminist nudity if they are against it? what conclusion can you draw from this? Assuming that they are against nudity that would make them blind to the wrongs of their own …and that leads to the second argument. I am not sure what your issue was with these two paragraphs. Perhaps you need to give it a little more thought.

@Paradoxical Intention

where did anyone say that we only wanted our products not taxed?

What a nonsensical question. You follow a gendered ’ideology’ that believes that women are victimised. You have campaigns for the removal of tax on ‘feminine hygiene products’ based on the idea that tax policy in that regard obstructs WOMAN’S equality. Your question implies otherwise? if you believe that tax is not an issue victimising women then stop believing in feminism and join the egalitarian movement, which fights for the rights and liberation of everyone from subjugation, without favouritism for one gender or the other; A movement which doesn’t do liberation for

’women and non-men’

but everyone, nor does it believe that

’problems only affects only one group of people (women)

A movement that believes that both genders suffer equally. A movement which does not endorse

focusing solutions

on one gender and ignoring the other.

If you have a problem with tax, if you believe that tax is not right the way it is, and its not just feminine hygiene products that are affected by this issue then dont choose gendered slogans for your protest. If you believe that the feminist issue with tampon tax is not one that is only about women’s products then don’t demand that people who don’t have uteruses not be allowed an opinion. This level of irrational nonsense that you threw at me in your argument is shocking but not surprising.

How is asking for help for a specific problem I face on account of having a vagina that a person with a penis doesn’t face sexist?

If there is a problem with tax, which based on what you have said, affects everyone and everything, and you choose to come out and protest against that one thing that affects women and demand that others be disallowed an opinion in the matter based on their gender, then you are sexist.

What your argument essentially comes out as is: “I don’t think people with vaginas should have access to specific hygiene products tax free (or free) because I wouldn’t get something tax free too!”

Yes, pretty much. I am an egalitarian. I want to live in a society where everyone regardless of their gender is treated equally. No-one should have special treatment based on their gender. If tax for hygiene products is an issue than it shouldn’t be gendered. The titles of the protest should be no tax on hygiene products as apposed to no tax on tampons and genders who don’t have uteruses should not be allowed a say. When you demand things for yourself that you deny others that is called demanding special treatment and when that is based on gender it is called sexism.

By the by, who ordered the Word Salad? What kind of dressing would you like with that?
(Not-so-Fun story: When I worked as a waitress, I asked a couple this question, and they said they wanted salsa because it was healthier, which I thought sounded like a tasty idea. The man said he’d give me an “extra special” tip if I did so. I did as they asked, was nothing but kind and helpful for their entire stay, and they left me a religious brochure that looked like a dollar bill as a fucking tip. That’s it. No actual money. Don’t do that, kids. Service workers really depend on those tips to survive! Jesus would want you to help those in need and not be an asshole!)

You are a STRONG woman, so get over it AND INDEPENDENT, so pay your own way in life as apposed to asking others to subsidise your ‘needs’.

Says the person who thinks that sex workers asking people to pay for their services is akin to being a sexual predator.

You are comparing two issues that are not even remotely related. One is a matter of paying for ‘services’ where the issue is you not wanting to pay for those ‘services’. The other is a matter of a ‘service’ that is paid for and the issue is sexual exploitation…

THEMISHMISHEH
my argument, in this thread, concerning sex was that it was not a need…

Paradoxical Intention:
That’s not what you said at all. I can literally scroll up to the original post and point it out.

No? Scroll back to page 5.

Snowberry:

if we accepted the classification sex as an absolute “need” then… it’s exploitative to provide it to those who are in need of it?

THEMISHMISHEH:

To address this part of your comment I am going to start off by defining the word ‘need’. The Oxford Dictionary defines this word as a requirement that is essential (emphasis on the word essential). The dictionary goes on to explain that a ‘need’ is something that is NOT just desirable. Sex does not qualify as a ‘need’. It is something that is desirable but not essential. As a human being I can live without sex but I cannot live without food. Hence why, food is a need whilst sex is not.

Paradoxical intention

We are capable of reading, dear CAPSLOCK.

Reading not your forte, is it?

So, what do they need “help” with, CAPSLOCK?

I think this is an important question.

People who seek out prostitution or drugs, for example, are often seeking these things out as a result of health problems such as addictions to sex or an escape from a problem in their life; People with family problems, people sexually abused as children, people who face domestic violence and people who are addicted to sex. Often those who have problems in life seek out ways to forget their pains and these escapes can take the form of drugs or prostitution and other destructive habits that do not address their problems but rather provide temporary relief. It is a destructive way to forget their troubles. Such problems and addictions require medical attention, which as we discussed earlier, is an absolute need and therefore a right. Prostitution, exploits such addictions and problems in people. It worsens such problems.

And if sex for money is “exploitation”, then what is sex without compensation? (Someone else asked this and you appear to have ignored them.)

On which page is this question? Elaborate. What is this question in reference to? sex between a husband and a wife? free sex with a prostitute? forced sex/rape of someone?

Case in point: you marched in here completely unwilling to hear what any of us have to say, and yet, you still expect us to listen to you and give you the benefit of the doubt and treat you as though you’re worthy of our time despite the fact that you’ve compared us to the Nazis for being feminists and are trying to play Holier Than Thou?

I am unwilling to hear what any of you have to say? How much thought did you put into that comment, which is riddled with emotion and lacking in reason? My replies to each and every single one of you entertain everything you write so long as it is respectful. My replies are hundreds of words long, this one perhaps exceeds a couple thousand and you are telling me that I am unwilling to entertain what you have to say? What an unfair, groundless accusation. If you are making this accusation in regards to those who chose to troll this comment thread chatting about skittles or others who insulted me then perhaps you are implying that I should entertain such people? If a person called you a donkey would you argue with them over the fact that you are human? let me give you an example of what happens when you entertain such people:

Go to page 9 and read EJ’s comment. The one that starts with

I feel that I have to say “fuck you” to this. I’ll explain why first; but please be aware that it’s coming.

Then scroll down and read my reply. The one that starts with:

It is based on your interpretation that the problem only effects one group of people not mine. So that we don’t stray from the topic of this article, lets take prostitution as an example that negatively effects both genders.

Now scroll down to his reply and see the outcome of entertaining such disrespectful people with reason and respect. His reply starts with:

I can’t speak for dlouwe, but I would be very happy if you simply stopped replying in general.

This leads me to the following:

You have the option of going elsewhere. You have the option of talking to people who agree with you. Just because we don’t, and we’re choosing to mock you (on top of straight up explaining why you’re wrong) doesn’t mean we’re “censoring” you.

I am discussing whether mockery is right or wrong and having a debate with those who are willing to listen. This article was written about a comment that I had left on an article on a newspaper’s website and I am here defending myself against something that I disagree with.

We’re simply mocking you.

That is your prerogative as an individual. I will let it speak for what you stand for and I will let my conduct speak for what I stand for. I also notice that you keep referring to yourself as ‘we’ when self talking throughout your comments. Might I suggest you stop doing that, as you do not speak for everyone on here. There a minority of you who have refrained from resorting to such futile tactics.

It’s a silly idea, and quite frankly, I’m tired of hearing it from everyone who marches in here with an anti-feminist chip on their shoulder. Martyrdom isn’t a good look for anyone.

Is this space one of inquiry or of dogmatic following of uncritical agreement? If you think it is a space of enquiry carry on engaging. If you are tired however, of hearing it, might I suggest you take up your own advice, stop replying and take your leave. It is that simple.

Except we do address their ideas and show them to be lacking?

This is very subjective. To some people writing about Sweets and Skittles is showing ideas to be lacking to others it is not.

Several people have explained to you why you’re wrong,

I can just as easily throw this same comment back at you and say I have explained several times how you are wrong and you ignored me.

you’ve patently ignored them

I have only ignored those of you who have resorted to vituperation and trolling. Everyone else got a reply to everything. I am here arguing with 15-20 of you (?), yet I have continually given comprehensive replies, often to comments filled with anger, hate, pettiness, trolling and insults. If I were to entertain every petty insult I would be here all day and all night to no end and if you are offended by ‘ignoring’ then might I suggest you direct your advice to each and every reply that I have had so far with the exception of a couple.

Dlouwe

I’m not going to entertain you any longer

Everything else I’m going to pointedly ignore;

we don’t immediately defer to you as someone worthy of talking seriously to?

I did. Your ideas have been weighed, they have been measured, and they have been found wanting.

That is based on your assessment, on your opinion my friend. From a you, this demeaning comment comes as praise. This sentence will pass right over your head. I do not think you have the capacity to understand or appreciate it, but this is the internet and these comments are not just for those whom we reply to but for everyone who reads them.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
4 years ago

this is the internet and these comments are not just for those whom we reply to but for everyone who reads them.

As part of “everyone who reads them”, I’ve got this to say : you’re still full of shit.

Congrats to everyone who’s had the patience to deal with this guy so far. Whether you “seem to have an appreciation for the importance and power of good manners in debate”, that’s the kind of effort that deserves a dozen different medals. I got a headache after the first ten lines of his last post, and I’m pretty sure that’s got nothing to do with being slightly drunk.

Tips to CAPMSHLOCKSHM : quoting philosophers all over the place is something you’d get penalised over in my philosophy classes, and I live in goddamn France. Your suave Smarter-Than-Thou tone ? Also something that annoys the heck out of even my French ass, and I was born in the country that regularly goes to war with Britain over who does it the most annoyingly. Your repeated use of “Let me point out where you wrong, then I’ll go over it all while completely missing the point, and tell you how I’m so much better than you.” ? Also something we pretty much invented, and then we followed suit and colonized half a continent based on it.

In short, I am not impressed. No one is, really. ‘cept your ego, which is, well, I guess, fine, I guess ?

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

Pineapple skittles sound delicious.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

Can we ban the rambler now?

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

I attempted to count troll’s post because I sure as hell wasn’t going to attempt to read it. I got bored and stopped when I got to 1954 and saw there was still quite a ways to go.

Dude.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Long comments are fine if they’re interesting and well written. But mishmash’s are not.

Troll,

All you had to do is say “as an egalitarian, I believe that inequality doesn’t exist and doesn’t need to be addressed.”

Then someone could have posted this

http://www.relatably.com/q/img/desmond-tutu-quotes/059fdbae85098f6107c07f6890d0c4e0.jpg

And we all could have gone on our merry ways. We’ve all heard the “we don’t need feminism because egalitarianism” arguments millions of times. Quoting the dictionary and whining about mockery isn’t going to change any hearts and minds.

Why are you even here? We’re not going to stop mocking misogyny just because you don’t like it. Better trolls than you have come here and been surprised that a mocking blog contains mockery.

Be concise, be entertaining or gtfo.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
4 years ago

@IP
David hasn’t banned anyone since the suicide thread iirc. I think we’re getting into a more conservative phase for bans (posts stopped before being let thru notwithstanding). Or he’s ninja banning in the shadows and we don’t even know. Alternatively, he’s just not paying attention to this old ass thread. Also possible

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

I’m leaving out the links in what follows because that seems to be a problem in posting this comment. I’m also not going to use the quote format.

@CAPSLOCKGUY

The behaviour of these feminists doesn’t offend you? it is fair in your eyes?

On the contrary. I think that these feminists’ tactics are a bad idea.

On the other hand, here, have some context:

Tens of thousands of women took to the streets in Mar Del Plata, Argentina, on Monday to protest the high incidences of gender violence and femicide in the country. The march was a part of the National Women’s Encounter, a yearly meeting of women in Argentina, where approximately 65,000 women spoke out against the culture of misogyny and violence towards women. Around 1,800 Argentine women have been the victims of femicide (defined as the killing of women because of their gender) between 2008 and 2014, and the government has done very little to intervene for women’s safety.

[Link omitted here; see my previous comment for the link.]

Protesting physical and sexual abuse of females by physically and sexually abusing males makes a lot more sense now that you have put it into context.

Yes, the context being that almost one woman a day dies in Argentina for the crime of being female.

I don’t condone violence. But I can understand how a group under siege might resort to it.

What’s up with you parroting 4chan — a cesspool of foul language and vile thought — but protesting our rudeness on this website?

By this logic if I support and reference the banning of vivisection by the Nazis, then I am Nazi.

If you support banning vivisection, that doesn’t make you a Nazi.

If you use the Nazis as your reference — yuck! Why would you do that if you’re not a Nazi?

If I love dogs or think that eating healthy food is a good idea, I’m sure as hell not going to refer to Adolf Hitler to make my argument.

Nor would I show up at a Halloween party dressed as Eva Braun.

Provocateur much, CAPSLOCK?

It is an example. If I were (for example) writing about the history of vivisection in Europe. I might need to make a reference to this. Referencing a people does not mean I support their ideologies. I knew this was going to come up in regards to 4Chan so i made sure that i was careful in what I wrote about that issue so as not come across sounding like I support these behaviours and when i referenced them I made sure to annotate what they did.

Quoting 4chan is like quoting a Ku Klux Klan newsletter. Or a kidnapper’s ransom note.

Are you testifying at a trial? Then quoting any of the above makes sense.

Are you explaining how your philosophy intersects with the philosophy of 4chan commenters? Then you are admitting that your philosophy is bankrupt – it is based on hatred.

We are not “you people”; we do not follow anything blindly. There is no cult. And no, there is not a massive amount of writing by feminists supporting vile methods of protest. The most cursory look at, say, Ms. magazine or the writings of Gloria Steinem — both widely read in the USA and also read internationally — would tell you that.

This is the same Ms. Magazine who’s editor Robin Morgan wrote that:
“I feel that man-hating is an honourable and viable political act”?

Here, have some more context:

I feel that “man-hating” is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.

PS: Robin Morgan has never murdered a man.

You claimed that there are feminist groups out there who disapprove of nudity. So my question was that these are ‘political activists’ so why aren’t they protesting feminist nudity if they are against it? what conclusion can you draw from this? Assuming that they are against nudity that would make them blind to the wrongs of their own …and that leads to the second argument. I am not sure what your issue was with these two paragraphs. Perhaps you need to give it a little more thought.

Yeah, thanks, I’ve given it a little more thought. I misread what you said the first time around. Now I see that you’re asking why the women’s rights groups that I mentioned who don’t protest in the nude or give men black eyes – such as the National Organization for Women, the American Association of University Women, or the League of Women Voters – don’t conduct counterprotests against violent nude women.

Because political action doesn’t work that way. Most women’s rights groups are allies. If they disagree, it’s probably done in private. I’m sure that antifeminists would really enjoy it if feminist protests attracted feminist counterprotests. Sorry, that’s not likely to happen.

Make of that what you will.

Because I’m focused on the real issue: Three hundred women a year die in Argentina because they are women.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

I think I’ve figured out MISHMASH’s strategy:

comment image

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

Baffle them with tedious, pompous bullshit.

Go on & on about your pet theories.

Talk down to your victims — er, readers.

Show up on a website that mocks misogynists. Tell your readers that you abhor mockery. Then mock them.

Demand that your readers police other feminists. Insist that they counterprotest any protest that you find objectionable.

Exhibit not the slightest bit of perspective. Public nudity is unacceptable, young lady! As is violence! Ignore the murder of 300 women per year in Argentina for the crime of being women.

joekster
joekster
4 years ago

Capslock, please read the FAQ.

That is all.

Unless someone wants to talk about origami. I think it was schildfreja who mentioned folding starburst wrappers, which I totally do all the time. My wife loves starbursts, but I can’t stand them, so she gets the candy, and I get to fold a flower for her from the wrappers 🙂

joekster
joekster
4 years ago

Ooh, and someone mentioned folding paper dragons up thread. If that person is still reading, what’s your preferred design? The only dragon fold I know is somewhat two-dimensional.

LindsayIrene
LindsayIrene
4 years ago

And claim to be an egalitarian while complaining about women doing something that men are allowed to do legally (i.e. be topless in public).

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
4 years ago

I ended up having to review some white papers for submission to a journal over the past few days. Not the first time I’ve done it – the wall between academia and the journals is pretty darn thin, obviously. It looks like I have another one to review here.

You make many of the same mistakes that the bad papers do, MISHMISHEH. You shotgun references into your work (in the wrong places might I add) in the hopes that the reader will see the name and the quote without actually understanding the context from which they arise.

Oh, and you also lead in with a dictionary definition. That’s the biggest red flag. Don’t cite definitions of common words, or even uncommon words. It’s amateurish and condescending to the audience. I’ll come back to that later. Just, don’t.

Your references are poorly chosen. You do order them in chronological order in order, beginning with a counterfactual before refuting it – that’s good, that’s the right thing to do.

Your refutations, however, are incomplete and misleading. You make the mistake of trying to apply an existential as a universal. Your quotes talk specifically about the use of mockery as a rhetorical tool to try to convince someone who is religious that they should not be religious. This is true. However, it cannot be extended to the universal of “all mockery is ineffectual and destructive.” This has yet to be shown.

While the specific case is true, there are two problems. The first is that this website is not dedicated to convincing misogynists the error of their ways. It is dedicated to using mockery to point out the evils and ridiculousness of misogyny, so that relatively neutral third parties might be convinced. Your quotes do not approach this context.

Second, mockery has a long history of efficacy and quality which you will be sorely pressed to approach. Consider that Johnathan Swift’s A Decent Proposal is still widely cited as a masterful work of art for its mockery of social views in England at the time.

Finally, to return to your citation of a dictionary definition of mockery as your first argument – this is condescending to your audience, and is itself mocking the intelligence of your audience. Your argument is therefore self-defeating. You include an incidence of mockery in your argument that mockery is destructive and ineffective, meaning that either you have sabotaged your own argument, or you are so unaware of your own writing that you could not see the contradiction.

I must recommend that this paper be rejected for publication. The authors must review their basic premises and establish a coherent argument before it should be considered.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
4 years ago
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko
4 years ago

@Scildfreja

I must recommend that this paper be rejected for publication. The authors must review their basic premises and establish a coherent argument before it should be considered.

This a thousand thousand times.

:3

joekster
joekster
4 years ago

@schildfreja: epic smackdown.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Plus, Mr Egalitarian has as far as I can tell (maybe it’s buried in the tl;dr) not acknowledged that tax relief for menstrual hygiene products would not be for women only. A trans man would not be charged a man tax first tampons. A cis man picking up a box of panty liners at the grocery store because his wife put it on the list and it’s his turn to shop would not be a charged a higher price than his wife would when she’s the one doing the shopping.

Mishmash troll has not even made an argument about why they should be taxed. He’s just pissed off that a group isn’t centering his own needs and issues.

Not very egalitarian!

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

@joekster

I’m the dragon origamist! This is what my little ones look like:
http://65.media.tumblr.com/0c8079961b5e1e6bbb06a6b4273ff7aa/tumblr_inline_nftj879epc1re0fce.jpg

It’s a modified crane base, I bastardized a much more complicated dragon origami design I had in a book. I can probably put together some instructions for them if you’re interested.

Zatar
Zatar
4 years ago

Damm, I wasn’t paying attention to the recent comments, but I looked over and what do I see but one of the most tedious trolls on the internet.

Joekster
Joekster
4 years ago

@Catalpa: OK, that’s cool. I think I can sort of figure out how you did it, but instructions are always appreciated 😀 It’s creative.

Full disclosure: one of my aunts gave me an old origami book for a birthday gift when I was in second grade, and I’ve been folding ever since. I may be the only person in the history of my grade school to get detention for folding up my homework in class. ‘Course, I’m also the only person in the history of my middle school to get detention for reading fiction in English class 😏 What can I say? I’m trouble.

Catalpa
Catalpa
4 years ago

Okay, I have no drawing ability whatsoever so you don’t get the nice, easy to follow origami diagrams. Have some pictures instead, and hopefully I can kind of explain this. Start with a bird base and valley-fold the skinnier parts (the ones that become the wings and head of a crane) at a 90 degree angle. Like so:
http://66.media.tumblr.com/bb7b1330f993f1b0be759da0854935ca/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o1_400.jpg
Then flip up one of the unfolded parts, and fold both of the edges of it in half lengthwise, towards you. Then cut through only one “layer” (folded together section) of each of the sections outlined in red here:
http://67.media.tumblr.com/f57adea5d9a80b0c1b6210878d879e7d/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o2_500.jpg
Unfold the top head flaps, fold the edges of the middle pentagon-shaped section together in halfs, and tuck the two middle cut through sections into the “pocket” formed by the folded down wings. Should look like this:
http://65.media.tumblr.com/688cfa4c449e158f5c5de5dbc6773934/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o3_500.jpg
Turn the piece over and cut yourself some tail and neck spikes, like so:
http://66.media.tumblr.com/b37a48eded5fb9ca3e59cdec3540e147/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o4_500.jpg
Fold both edges of the tail into the middle, keeping the tail spikes out of the fold:
http://66.media.tumblr.com/182c1856d1ae62ef4447f82afe61b5a6/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o5_400.jpg
Fold the entire piece in half towards you, bend the legs halfway up, mountain fold the tail, and fold the head down. You’ll probably have a long “snout” on your dragon that you can trim off or fold up inside the “head”:
http://67.media.tumblr.com/51fd14f72d9da9668b383d75bf11e5a9/tumblr_oce7hkn4Hs1s3rve5o6_400.jpg

Joekster
Joekster
4 years ago

@catalpa: thank you for taking the time to work the photos in. Now I have to dig out some paper and give it a go, but this looks like a fun fold to add to my repertoire. Much thanks.

EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

That’s amazing, Catalpa. Thanks for posting it! Now I am seized by the desire to learn to origami.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

Re: folding stuff

It’s generally accepted now that it’s a myth that Betsy Ross came up with the U.S. Flag. One thing she demonstrably could do though was to fold a piece of cloth in a way you could make a five pointed star with just one cut. I’ve seen it done and it is pretty impressive.