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Are Roosh V’s “Bang” books how-to guides for rape?

Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex
Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex

If the almost universally despised pickup artist and rape legalization proponent Roosh Valizadeh is able to deliver his planned talk tomorrow at some as-yet-undisclosed venue in Toronto, he won’t just be talking about the unoriginal blend of warmed-over misogyny he perplexingly calls “neomasculinity.”

He will also be selling his infamous “Bang” books, a series of pickup guides aimed mostly at North American tourists hoping to score easy sex in an assortment of countries in Europe and South America. These guides seem to have been Roosh’s main source of income for the past several years.

So it is worth asking what exactly Roosh is selling here.

Most of the “Bang” books are country-specific guides offering Roosh’s, er, insights into each country’s nightlife, dating mores, and women. “The best way to describe a Ukrainian girl’s personality is that of a corpse,” he explains in Bang Ukraine. “They really don’t show any emotion, interest, or spark when you first approach them. They just stand still with their eyes darting around.”

Alongside Roosh’s recommendations on cities to visit, bars to prowl, and dating “logistics” (rent an apartment near the bars you intend to frequent so you can easily get “girls” back to your place before, you know, they change their minds), Roosh also provides case studies of his sexual, er, conquests of women in each country.

Judging from Roosh’s own descriptions of them, many of these alleged conquests might better be described as rapes.

Again and again in these stories, presented as true, Roosh literally won’t take no for an answer, pressuring reluctant and resistant women into giving him what he wants, in one case using outright physical force in order to continue intercourse with a woman who had changed her mind.

In many of these cases Roosh tells us or at least implies that the woman in question consented to sex, but it is worth asking what kind of “consent” is preceded by literally hours of struggle against a physically imposing man who refuses to believe that no means no. It’s also worth asking what the woman’s own account of the experience would look like.

Are Roosh’s Bang books essentially how-to guides to date rape? Read some of his stories and decide for yourself. [Trigger Warning for the quotes that follow.]

The most notorious passage in any of Roosh’s Bang books comes from Bang Iceland, in which Roosh describes sex with a drunk woman he ushered to his apartment after she was left behind by her friends at a bar.

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated.

I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Sex with women too drunk to consent is considered rape in Iceland as well as in the US.

Roosh continues:

If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the dick no matter how much she has drunk. …

I figure my dick was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her pussy was drier than the Sahara desert.

Roosh’s sense of self-awareness is as underdeveloped as his conscience.

With another Icelandic woman, Roosh reports:

In the middle of the night I got another boner, put on a condom, and jammed it back in while she was half-asleep. I came and passed out again with the condom still on my dick….

Roosh’s accounts of his sexual escapades in Iceland are sadly rather typical for him. In Bang Poland, he makes clear that the word “no,” won’t stop him, no matter how many times it’s repeated.

We moved to my bed. I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.” I was so turned on by her beauty and petite figure that I told myself she’s not walking out my door without getting fucked. At that moment I accepted the idea of getting locked up in a Polish prison to make it happen.

After more such “foreplay,” Roosh gets what he wants:

I put on a condom, lubed up, and finally got her consent to put it in. … I put her on her stomach and went deep, pounding her pussy like a pedophile. She took it like a champ even though I imagine it must have felt like being fucked by a telescope. My orgasm was from another world.

This is what passes for a happy ending in Roosh’s stories.

In 30 Bangs, a collection of Rooshian case studies, Roosh gives his excruciating account of “sex” with an anonymous Catholic girl a similarly “upbeat” ending:

After dinner we went upstairs and I eased her onto my king-size bed. It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina. No means no—until it means yes.

The sex was painful for her. I was only the second guy she’d ever had sex with. … She whimpered like a wounded puppy dog the entire time, but I really wanted to have an orgasm, so I was “almost there” for about ten minutes. After sex she sobbed for a good while, talking about how she had sinned in the eyes of God, but in an hour she got horny again and we went at it once more.

In Bang Ukraine, Roosh describes how he used “some muscle” to hold a woman down after she changed her mind during sex.

I was fucking her from behind, getting to the end in the way I normally did, when all of a sudden she said, “Wait stop, I want to go back on top.” I refused and we argued. … She tried to squirm away while I was laying down my strokes so I had to use some muscle to prevent her from escaping. I was able to finish, but my orgasm was weak.

Afterwards I told her she was selfish and that she couldn’t call an audible so late in the game.

Again and again in these stories – and there are more of them — Roosh misleads, manipulates, cajoles, pressures and intimidates women until he gets what he wants. The women could not be clearer in their refusals, telling Roosh no and pushing him away. He doesn’t care.

To judge from his own accounts of his sexual exploits in the books he published himself, Roosh is a dangerous sexual predator who has been getting away with it for years. In his Bang books, he teaches young men that they can get away with it too.

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anonymous
anonymous
9 years ago

Dawn:

The answer to all of that of course is that the devil’s in the details. Needless to say, attempting to discuss the specifics of each case with the hysterical sophists who make up the bulk of this blog’s readership would be a time wasting exercise in futility.

In the meantime in the real world, not even the most overzealous clown world prosecutor would stake her reputation on a case as you’ve tried to build it here because, your flimsy lamentations notwithstanding, it’s complete bullshit.

Is Roosh’s approach sleazy, underhanded, generally unpalatable, exploitative even? Hey, to each their own. Have at it.

Rape? Nope, sorry. Better luck next time.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Is Roosh’s approach sleazy, underhanded, generally unpalatable, exploitative even? Hey, to each their own. Have at it.

Since we’re posting Archer gifs…
http://www.gifwave.com/media/411104_archer-lana-nope-yup-training-day.gif

http://img.pandawhale.com/107097-Lana-Archer-nope-gif-Imgur-30H1.gif

catgirl
catgirl
9 years ago

Actually, anonymous, it meets the legal definition of rape. He’s only getting away with it likely because no one has come forward, and because American police are too busy with people who fail to use their turn signals, they don’t have time to even test rape kits.

That’s how seriously rape is taken in this country. The police departments don’t even test rape kits.

That said, given the fact that public opinion is heavily against Roosh, I wouldn’t be surprised if people started stepping forward. He’s already under investigation. It’s only a matter of time until he gets put in the cage where he belongs. Away from society.

catgirl
catgirl
9 years ago

Hey anon, maybe you can visit Roosh when he’s in jail.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

anonymous | August 15, 2015 at 11:48 pm
Dawn:

The answer to all of that of course is that the devil’s in the details. Needless to say, attempting to discuss the specifics of each case with the hysterical sophists who make up the bulk of this blog’s readership would be a time wasting exercise in futility.

“Hysterical sophists”, huh? Anyone else hear barking?

It’s funny that the moment anyone says “Hey, this guy has admitted to raping women and is trying to promote his tactics to other men, and that’s not good.”, they get labeled as “hysterical”.

Shorter anon: “We could discuss this (and all of you have been), but I’d rather just not listen to you in order to preserve my precious worldview and not question anything. It’s so much easier that way!”

In the meantime in the real world, not even the most overzealous clown world prosecutor would stake her reputation on a case as you’ve tried to build it here because, your flimsy lamentations notwithstanding, it’s complete bullshit.

Isn’t it funny that your hypothetical “clown world prosecutor” is a “she”?

Alan, you want to weigh in on this, as WHTM’s resident UK laywer?

Although, I myself am not a lawyer, allow me to spitball here:

– Roosh hypothetically gets brought up on charges by one of his victims
– Roosh goes to court as a result
– “Clown world prosecutor” brings up his website, Return of Kings, filled with violent misogyny
– “Clown world prosecutor” brings up the specific article where he advocates for raping women on private property
– “Clown world prosecutor” brings up his books, and quotes these specific passages

I don’t know about you, but that sounds like damning evidence.

Is Roosh’s approach sleazy, underhanded, generally unpalatable, exploitative even? Hey, to each their own. Have at it.

You do realize that “exploiting” someone for sex is legally defined as rape, right? If you don’t have willing, continual, and enthusiastic consent from someone who is of sound mind, you cannot fuck them.

Rape? Nope, sorry. Better luck next time.

TIL: That even if you say no to sex, and a guy fucks you anyways, it’s not rape because shitfucks on the internet said so.

Keep telling yourselves that, and maybe someday it’ll (never) come true! In the meantime, we’ll point to the law, and encourage people to go to the police.

Fuck right back off to Return of Kings, where shitheads like you belong.

anonymous
anonymous
9 years ago

“I don’t know about you, but that sounds like damning evidence.”

Actually no, it isn’t. Not a lawyer indeed 😀

NothingClever
NothingClever
9 years ago

Love that this guy can use cute little emoticons to diminish our life experiences. Keep going, anon. Reach for the stars.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
9 years ago

I was going to say something clever about how annoynymous was clearly Paul Elam, because he’d (I think we’re all fine with assuming anoynymous is a he?) never be convinced anyone was a rapist, but then I remembered that Elam only said he’d acquit rapists, not that he’d say they weren’t rapists.

Congrats, annoy, you may actually be a worse human being than Paul Elam.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago
anonymous
anonymous
9 years ago

“Congrats, annoy, you may actually be a worse human being than Paul Elam.”

lol, oh no, anything but that 😀

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

anonymous | August 16, 2015 at 12:07 am
Actually no, it isn’t. Not a lawyer indeed 😀

– Actually admits to raping women
– Writes books about raping women in different countries
– Publishes articles that describe “punishing” women for percieved sleights (like being fat and wearing makeup)
– Publishes and article that advocates legalizing rape “so women will protect themselves”

Totally not a rapist, you guys! Anonymous has cleared Roosh of all charges! (Because apparently he’s a judge and jury of Roosh’s “peers”.)

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

“I don’t know about you, but that sounds like damning evidence.”

Actually no, it isn’t. Not a lawyer indeed 😀

“Congrats, annoy, you may actually be a worse human being than Paul Elam.”

lol, oh no, anything but that 😀

http://33.media.tumblr.com/5d863f8ce33f76be142c4a1365f99590/tumblr_n82kvwKwiT1r5neevo1_500.gif

NothingClever
NothingClever
9 years ago

It’s not rape, it’s just sex she didn’t want, right, anon? Buyers remorse? Insides torn up so badly she can’t even have children naturally? Anyone who feels violated after that is just a clown? All just fun to you, isn’t it?

I sincerely hope you don’t *ever* feel as violated as the women in these stories and this thread felt under these conditions.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

I can see that our oh-so-brave troll Anonymous thinks rape is a joke, and the fact that Roosh has been slick enough so he probably won’t be prosecuted for his crimes is a real barrel of laughs.

Catalpa
Catalpa
9 years ago

Ah, I love (and by love I mean am deeply disgusted and annoyed with) the way that anonymous seems to think that by saying something in a condescending manner, punctuating it with blase emoticons, and refusing to provide any sort of rationale or precedents of law to back up his unsubstatiated assertions, he is somehow ‘winning’.

No, pumpkin, I’m afraid that’s not how things work. But, if you think that they do…

Anonymous, I’m sorry to tell you that you smell overwhelmingly like fresh, steaming feces. You might think that you don’t, but that’s just because you’ve been brainwashed by the media into thinking that things like ‘soap’ and ‘deodorant’ can remove the nose-burning reek of bullshit that you spew everywhere you go. I’m sorry, but that’s just how things work in the real world when you’re an unscrupulous shitweasel. Glad I could clear that up for you 🙂

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Hi Paradoxy

I put something upthread about how this is clearly rape, and how he could be prosecuted im England if he ever came here, despite the offences being committed abroad.

There’s also something I wrote in response to EJ about how his words are admissible evidence against him.

I’d go into more detail but I’m on my phone and letting the XY side down the when it comes to using tech stuff!

Mewens
Mewens
9 years ago

I’m with Catalpa. (And the rest of ya’ll, I imagine.)

Maybe I’ve been drinking too much, but I imagine Anonymous loving the fact that he can’t be personally called out here – I wonder if his co-workers and acquaintances have gotten exhausted of his I’m-on-the-cross-don’t-pull-me-down schtick yet.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ anonymous

Right, I’m back near a computer with a keyboard. You want to argue legal stuff? Bring it on.

[Seconds away; round one, *ding ding*]

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Yaaaaaay, the 12 year old is back. Equipped with his own definitions of words and even legal concepts as well. What was that you were saying about reality? I can’t hear you over the sound of the law itself agreeing with us.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Go Alan! But I suggest you look up US law as well because if you go by just English law, he’ll go “Yeah but Roosh is ‘MURICAN lololol silly mangina!”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago
sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

@Alan
Hehe. Anyway, here’s some cheerleaders for your endeavours.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwiy3vtLEj1r4argpo1_r1_500.gif

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Aww, thank you.

Actually Cheerleading is a good example of gender stereotypes. It’s probably the epitome of “girlyness” yet pound for pound these women are probably amongst the strongest athletes going and in terms of death or catastrophic injuries per number of participants it’s the world’s most dangerous sporting activity. If it was a bloke’s thing it would be lauded as the height of masculinity.

[Sorry Paradoxy, professional wrestling is *not* a sport 😉 ]