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Are Roosh V’s “Bang” books how-to guides for rape?

Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex
Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex

If the almost universally despised pickup artist and rape legalization proponent Roosh Valizadeh is able to deliver his planned talk tomorrow at some as-yet-undisclosed venue in Toronto, he won’t just be talking about the unoriginal blend of warmed-over misogyny he perplexingly calls “neomasculinity.”

He will also be selling his infamous “Bang” books, a series of pickup guides aimed mostly at North American tourists hoping to score easy sex in an assortment of countries in Europe and South America. These guides seem to have been Roosh’s main source of income for the past several years.

So it is worth asking what exactly Roosh is selling here.

Most of the “Bang” books are country-specific guides offering Roosh’s, er, insights into each country’s nightlife, dating mores, and women. “The best way to describe a Ukrainian girl’s personality is that of a corpse,” he explains in Bang Ukraine. “They really don’t show any emotion, interest, or spark when you first approach them. They just stand still with their eyes darting around.”

Alongside Roosh’s recommendations on cities to visit, bars to prowl, and dating “logistics” (rent an apartment near the bars you intend to frequent so you can easily get “girls” back to your place before, you know, they change their minds), Roosh also provides case studies of his sexual, er, conquests of women in each country.

Judging from Roosh’s own descriptions of them, many of these alleged conquests might better be described as rapes.

Again and again in these stories, presented as true, Roosh literally won’t take no for an answer, pressuring reluctant and resistant women into giving him what he wants, in one case using outright physical force in order to continue intercourse with a woman who had changed her mind.

In many of these cases Roosh tells us or at least implies that the woman in question consented to sex, but it is worth asking what kind of “consent” is preceded by literally hours of struggle against a physically imposing man who refuses to believe that no means no. It’s also worth asking what the woman’s own account of the experience would look like.

Are Roosh’s Bang books essentially how-to guides to date rape? Read some of his stories and decide for yourself. [Trigger Warning for the quotes that follow.]

The most notorious passage in any of Roosh’s Bang books comes from Bang Iceland, in which Roosh describes sex with a drunk woman he ushered to his apartment after she was left behind by her friends at a bar.

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated.

I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Sex with women too drunk to consent is considered rape in Iceland as well as in the US.

Roosh continues:

If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the dick no matter how much she has drunk. …

I figure my dick was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her pussy was drier than the Sahara desert.

Roosh’s sense of self-awareness is as underdeveloped as his conscience.

With another Icelandic woman, Roosh reports:

In the middle of the night I got another boner, put on a condom, and jammed it back in while she was half-asleep. I came and passed out again with the condom still on my dick….

Roosh’s accounts of his sexual escapades in Iceland are sadly rather typical for him. In Bang Poland, he makes clear that the word “no,” won’t stop him, no matter how many times it’s repeated.

We moved to my bed. I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.” I was so turned on by her beauty and petite figure that I told myself she’s not walking out my door without getting fucked. At that moment I accepted the idea of getting locked up in a Polish prison to make it happen.

After more such “foreplay,” Roosh gets what he wants:

I put on a condom, lubed up, and finally got her consent to put it in. … I put her on her stomach and went deep, pounding her pussy like a pedophile. She took it like a champ even though I imagine it must have felt like being fucked by a telescope. My orgasm was from another world.

This is what passes for a happy ending in Roosh’s stories.

In 30 Bangs, a collection of Rooshian case studies, Roosh gives his excruciating account of “sex” with an anonymous Catholic girl a similarly “upbeat” ending:

After dinner we went upstairs and I eased her onto my king-size bed. It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina. No means no—until it means yes.

The sex was painful for her. I was only the second guy she’d ever had sex with. … She whimpered like a wounded puppy dog the entire time, but I really wanted to have an orgasm, so I was “almost there” for about ten minutes. After sex she sobbed for a good while, talking about how she had sinned in the eyes of God, but in an hour she got horny again and we went at it once more.

In Bang Ukraine, Roosh describes how he used “some muscle” to hold a woman down after she changed her mind during sex.

I was fucking her from behind, getting to the end in the way I normally did, when all of a sudden she said, “Wait stop, I want to go back on top.” I refused and we argued. … She tried to squirm away while I was laying down my strokes so I had to use some muscle to prevent her from escaping. I was able to finish, but my orgasm was weak.

Afterwards I told her she was selfish and that she couldn’t call an audible so late in the game.

Again and again in these stories – and there are more of them — Roosh misleads, manipulates, cajoles, pressures and intimidates women until he gets what he wants. The women could not be clearer in their refusals, telling Roosh no and pushing him away. He doesn’t care.

To judge from his own accounts of his sexual exploits in the books he published himself, Roosh is a dangerous sexual predator who has been getting away with it for years. In his Bang books, he teaches young men that they can get away with it too.

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Griffin Heffer
Griffin Heffer
9 years ago

You don’t get to control these women’s narrative. If they were raped, then they would have pressed charges. None pressed charges. Roosh has never been charged with any crime, let alone rape. Telling these women that what happened to them was rape is insulting and patronising.

They get to decide that. Not you.

katz
katz
9 years ago

Reading his description of Ukrainian girls it’s tempting to joke about how he wildly misreads social cues, but when you read the whole thing, I’m not sure he does. It seems more like he knows perfectly well that these women don’t want to have sex with him and that’s his whole goal.

repentantphonebooth
9 years ago

@Griffin Heffer- Bullshit. There are a myriad of reasons women don’t press charges when they are raped, not the least of which is they often don’t recognize it as rape until long after it happened. This isn’t these women’s narratives, this is roosh’s narrative, and it is one filled with rape and dehumanization of women.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Griffin Heffer

They get to decide that

Well, ultimately the law gets to decide, so let’s see shall we

Mr Roosh’s account:

It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina.

What English law has to say about that

Consent involves a free agreement, simply to comply or submit is not necessarily to consent. Compliance and/or submission should not be confused with consent. For example, submission of free choice to repeated demands is not the same thing as consent.

And finally Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003

If—
(a) a person does an act in a country outside the United Kingdom at a time when the person was not a United Kingdom national or a United Kingdom resident,
(b)the act constituted an offence under the law in force in that country,
(c)the act, if done in England and Wales would have constituted a sexual offence to which this section applies, and
(d)the person meets the residence or nationality condition at the relevant time,
.
proceedings may be brought against the person in England and Wales for that sexual offence as if the person had done the act there.

So as far as English law is concerned that’s rape, and if he’s daft enough to ever spend a night here he can be prosecuted for it.

titianblue
titianblue
9 years ago

If they were raped, then they would have pressed charges.

I want to live in @Griffin Heffer’s world where every rape victim feels willing & able to press charges, where there is no victim-blamimg, no harrassment of victims, no disbelief nor commonly accepted myth of false accusations, where there are no Jimmy Savilles or Bill Crosbys.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

Griffin Heffer | August 15, 2015 at 1:34 pm
You don’t get to control these women’s narrative. If they were raped, then they would have pressed charges. None pressed charges. Roosh has never been charged with any crime, let alone rape. Telling these women that what happened to them was rape is insulting and patronising.

They get to decide that. Not you.

As someone who was raped by not only someone who terrified me because of the physical damage he could do, but someone who convinced almost everyone around me that I could trust with that information of what he was doing that I was a liar and I was only trying to “get back at him”, and even gaslit me to the point where I wasn’t sure what was happening myself:

Fuck you. What happened to me was rape, despite the fact I was too terrified to tell anyone for a long time.

Roosh is describing raping people.

He’s describing women openly telling him that they don’t want to have sex, and him pressuring them and coercing them into doing it anyways, and he even talks about raping a woman wasn’t even conscious for what was going on.

That’s like saying that the Stubenville victim “wasn’t raped” because she didn’t know what was going on because she was unconscious until someone posted the videos of what happened.

titianblue | August 15, 2015 at 5:20 pm
I want to live in @Griffin Heffer’s world where every rape victim feels willing & able to press charges, where there is no victim-blamimg, no harrassment of victims, no disbelief nor commonly accepted myth of false accusations, where there are no Jimmy Savilles or Bill Crosbys.

Seconding this. And adding: I wished I lived in a world where rape victims weren’t pressured into dropping the charges by other people (including the goddamned police) because of who their rapist was and pressured to “think about their lives” because a rape accusation “would ruin their lives” like the victim’s life hasn’t already been ruined.

I wished I lived in a world where women wouldn’t be disowned by their families if they were raped. I wished I lived in a world where men could openly come out and say they were raped without MRA shitheads mocking them because they “took it like a bitch” if their rapist was a man, or “I wish she’d rape me!” if their rapist was a good-looking woman.

I wished I lived in a world where when I told someone what was happening the first time, they followed through with their promises to help me before succumbing to my rapist’s account of what happened.

I wish I lived in a world where when my rapist’s mother told me that my mother would disown me and ship me off to a girl’s home if she found out that my stepfather was raping me, I didn’t believe her, and didn’t stop telling people because I was scared to lose my family because I believed that horrible woman who blamed me for not telling a man twice my size, who beat me on a regular basis, and terrified me into obedience, “no, don’t do this”.

I wished I lived in this world. But we don’t. And it’s partially due to shitheads like Griffin Heffer perpetrating the idea that “Oh, well she didn’t try to have him arrested, so she was okay with it!”

Fuck off. And keep fucking off. And don’t come back.

modmyst
9 years ago

I’ve been thinking about the drivel he’s published –and sold, SOLD!! It’s just amateur porn and every guy raised on Internet porn buying his scribbles wants frantically to believe that the porn scenario can be made real. That sexual sadism is the norm for all men for all time.

catgirl
catgirl
9 years ago

Roosh is a rapist. Hopefully soon he will be seen that way by the eyes of the law. He deserves to be kept in a cage.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
9 years ago

@modmyst

I don’t want to be all #notallmen, but… no. No it isn’t. The idea of a “Sahara-dry pussy” is anything but a turn-on, to say nothing of how completely grimy I imagine I’d feel if I finally got to have sex with a woman only because I’d spent a few hours arguing her into it until she agreed just to shut me up.

Actually, am I the only one whose stomach was most churned by the combination of the “Sahara desert” quote and the one about “getting lubed up”? The first time I read the second one, I had a brief moment of “Well, hell, at least he did that.” Then I remembered the bit about the Sahara and decided to go think about something else for a while.

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
9 years ago

@Fnoicby and anyone else who may be interested:

I got a response from someone at the Customer Service Team at Indigo. It may be a canned reply, but here in the key sentence:

I have escalated your concern to our content team for review, and you will receive a follow up from us once there has been a full review of the book(s).

That may be an attempt to put me off until I forget, but I will take their word for it that I will receive a follow-up. I hope their content team has a lot of Maalox handy. I don’t envy them their job.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

You don’t get to control these women’s narrative. If they were raped, then they would have pressed charges. None pressed charges. Roosh has never been charged with any crime, let alone rape. Telling these women that what happened to them was rape is insulting and patronising.

They get to decide that. Not you.

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1339426725154_9146065.png

Actually, if you’d been paying ANY attention at all, you’d realize that it was Roosh controlling the narrative by bragging about his rapes as though they were normal sex. (Spoiler: They’re not. None of them are.)

And frankly, he SHOULD be charged. Whether these women come forward themselves or not. He bragged about raping? He should go to jail for rape. Period. End of discussion.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

That’s not how crime works. Would anyone say that Jack the Ripper’s victims weren’t murdered because he was never caught and convicted? Rhoosh is confessing to rape, whether the victims press charges or not. Whether he is ever convicted of rape or not. Trying to disguise rape apologia in pro feminist language is the most disgusting kind of trolling.

GhostBird
GhostBird
9 years ago

@Griffin Heffer

Well done ignoring what every woman in this post and thread has said. I find it interesting how you breezed past myself, NicolaLuna, and NothingClever, and our experiences. And by ‘I find it interesting’ I mean ‘you have the reading comprehension and empathy of a fucking walnut’.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

What a disgusting man. He really did deserve to have beer on his head and to be accosted by those women. In fact it is the LEAST he deserves. He should be in jail for his crimes.

catgirl
catgirl
9 years ago

Rabid rabbit,

I wish I could find the article somewhere, but there was a study done on misogyny and rape porn, ie is a man’s ability to get off during rape porn influenced by misogynistic attitudes and believing of rape myths.

Basically they found the men with the highest likelihood to rape index also perpetuated rape myths and got off on what roosh describes (they actually measured erections).

The men who said they could never rape a woman and didn’t perpetuate rape myths also didn’t get erections from rape porn.

I posted that study on a manosphere blog once and got called a delusional feminist. Why do mras hate reality???

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

What weirwoodtreehugger said.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

“That’s not how crime works. Would anyone say that Jack the Ripper’s victims weren’t murdered because he was never caught and convicted? Rhoosh is confessing to rape, whether the victims press charges or not. Whether he is ever convicted of rape or not. Trying to disguise rape apologia in pro feminist language is the most disgusting kind of trolling.”

Exactly. Anyone how is still having ‘doubts’ that Roosh is rapist after reading his quotes is a wilfully ignorant rape apologist. This vile shit is coming straight from the horse’s mouth. It is not us accusing him of being a rapist, he is admitting it himself, on fact he has the nerve to CELEBRATE it. It is right on black and white, in explicit detail. GH, the fact that you still have ‘doubts’ and spouting rape apologia after reading Roosh’s own words makes you as disgusting and vile as Roosh himself.

catgirl
catgirl
9 years ago

http://www.rooshv.com/i-am-a-rapist

Roosh confessed to being a rapist in 2006. How is it taking a whole decade for this to be news?

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

Why do mras hate reality???

Because it has a feminist bias!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TPpcxkSQMjc/Ui6LufLCk5I/AAAAAAAADnY/KVfa43VtwQ4/s1600/rimshot.jpg

anonymous
anonymous
9 years ago

Why oh why has Roosh never been prosecuted, nevermind convicted of rape?

Hmm lets see. Could it be because none of those instances meet the legal definition of rape? Except in manboobz clown world apparently.

Yeah, I’m going to go with that.

Luckily, as eager as it is these days to appeal to shitlib excesses of all stripes, the real world continues to maintain a modicum of sanity.

Occam’s razor: it slices, it dices, it shreds feminist sophistry to pieces!

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
9 years ago
Reply to  anonymous

TW to all involved: I’m going to quote Roosh’s own words here. If it needs to be deleted then I apologize in advance.

Trollio, trollio, wherefore are thou, Trollio?

If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the dick no matter how much she has drunk. …

I figure my dick was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her pussy was drier than the Sahara desert.

That’s rape. I would bet money that she was incoherent and nearly passed out.

In the middle of the night I got another boner, put on a condom, and jammed it back in while she was half-asleep

That’s rape. You cannot just put on a condom and stick it in while she’s asleep.

I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.”

That’s rape. I can’t believe I’m explaining to a troll that no means no.

It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina. No means no—until it means yes.

That’s rape. No means no. What the everloving fuck.

He’s writing about frightening and hurting women like it’s the greatest thing ever. I can’t even. I just can’t. He’s turned on by this. I went through a period of drinking too much, and one time initiated relations with my boyfriend while truly hammered. I passed out in my panties and woke up naked. I’m sure a lot of people here can imagine the terror of waking up naked and not knowing how you got that way or what happened. (He saw that I had passed out and tucked me in and probably jerked off in the bathroom :P)

This is the manboobz clown logic apparently.

http://i.giphy.com/qhyQfm8GBkWaY.gif

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

I see anonymous hasn’t gotten to the consent portion of the sex ed unit in his health class yet. But he sure is proud of that shitlib insult. He keeps using it like it means anything or offends anyone.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

Why oh why has Roosh never been prosecuted, nevermind convicted of rape?

Hmm lets see. Could it be because none of those instances meet the legal definition of rape? Except in manboobz clown world apparently.

Yeah, I’m going to go with that.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/37399862.jpg

If you were literate, you could read through the thread and see how clearly they all DO meet the definition of rape. But since you’re a lazy idiot, you can just fuck off.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

We should really pays lots of attention to a troll who posts as “Anonymous”.
Although “Totally Clueless” would have been more appropriate.
And if he comes back: you just sliced and diced yourself. They ALL meet the legal definition of rape. People like you shouldn’t be allowed to play with sharp things like Occam’s Razor — you can really hurt yourself.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago
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