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Are Roosh V’s “Bang” books how-to guides for rape?

Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex
Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex

If the almost universally despised pickup artist and rape legalization proponent Roosh Valizadeh is able to deliver his planned talk tomorrow at some as-yet-undisclosed venue in Toronto, he won’t just be talking about the unoriginal blend of warmed-over misogyny he perplexingly calls “neomasculinity.”

He will also be selling his infamous “Bang” books, a series of pickup guides aimed mostly at North American tourists hoping to score easy sex in an assortment of countries in Europe and South America. These guides seem to have been Roosh’s main source of income for the past several years.

So it is worth asking what exactly Roosh is selling here.

Most of the “Bang” books are country-specific guides offering Roosh’s, er, insights into each country’s nightlife, dating mores, and women. “The best way to describe a Ukrainian girl’s personality is that of a corpse,” he explains in Bang Ukraine. “They really don’t show any emotion, interest, or spark when you first approach them. They just stand still with their eyes darting around.”

Alongside Roosh’s recommendations on cities to visit, bars to prowl, and dating “logistics” (rent an apartment near the bars you intend to frequent so you can easily get “girls” back to your place before, you know, they change their minds), Roosh also provides case studies of his sexual, er, conquests of women in each country.

Judging from Roosh’s own descriptions of them, many of these alleged conquests might better be described as rapes.

Again and again in these stories, presented as true, Roosh literally won’t take no for an answer, pressuring reluctant and resistant women into giving him what he wants, in one case using outright physical force in order to continue intercourse with a woman who had changed her mind.

In many of these cases Roosh tells us or at least implies that the woman in question consented to sex, but it is worth asking what kind of “consent” is preceded by literally hours of struggle against a physically imposing man who refuses to believe that no means no. It’s also worth asking what the woman’s own account of the experience would look like.

Are Roosh’s Bang books essentially how-to guides to date rape? Read some of his stories and decide for yourself. [Trigger Warning for the quotes that follow.]

The most notorious passage in any of Roosh’s Bang books comes from Bang Iceland, in which Roosh describes sex with a drunk woman he ushered to his apartment after she was left behind by her friends at a bar.

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated.

I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Sex with women too drunk to consent is considered rape in Iceland as well as in the US.

Roosh continues:

If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the dick no matter how much she has drunk. …

I figure my dick was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her pussy was drier than the Sahara desert.

Roosh’s sense of self-awareness is as underdeveloped as his conscience.

With another Icelandic woman, Roosh reports:

In the middle of the night I got another boner, put on a condom, and jammed it back in while she was half-asleep. I came and passed out again with the condom still on my dick….

Roosh’s accounts of his sexual escapades in Iceland are sadly rather typical for him. In Bang Poland, he makes clear that the word “no,” won’t stop him, no matter how many times it’s repeated.

We moved to my bed. I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.” I was so turned on by her beauty and petite figure that I told myself she’s not walking out my door without getting fucked. At that moment I accepted the idea of getting locked up in a Polish prison to make it happen.

After more such “foreplay,” Roosh gets what he wants:

I put on a condom, lubed up, and finally got her consent to put it in. … I put her on her stomach and went deep, pounding her pussy like a pedophile. She took it like a champ even though I imagine it must have felt like being fucked by a telescope. My orgasm was from another world.

This is what passes for a happy ending in Roosh’s stories.

In 30 Bangs, a collection of Rooshian case studies, Roosh gives his excruciating account of “sex” with an anonymous Catholic girl a similarly “upbeat” ending:

After dinner we went upstairs and I eased her onto my king-size bed. It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina. No means no—until it means yes.

The sex was painful for her. I was only the second guy she’d ever had sex with. … She whimpered like a wounded puppy dog the entire time, but I really wanted to have an orgasm, so I was “almost there” for about ten minutes. After sex she sobbed for a good while, talking about how she had sinned in the eyes of God, but in an hour she got horny again and we went at it once more.

In Bang Ukraine, Roosh describes how he used “some muscle” to hold a woman down after she changed her mind during sex.

I was fucking her from behind, getting to the end in the way I normally did, when all of a sudden she said, “Wait stop, I want to go back on top.” I refused and we argued. … She tried to squirm away while I was laying down my strokes so I had to use some muscle to prevent her from escaping. I was able to finish, but my orgasm was weak.

Afterwards I told her she was selfish and that she couldn’t call an audible so late in the game.

Again and again in these stories – and there are more of them — Roosh misleads, manipulates, cajoles, pressures and intimidates women until he gets what he wants. The women could not be clearer in their refusals, telling Roosh no and pushing him away. He doesn’t care.

To judge from his own accounts of his sexual exploits in the books he published himself, Roosh is a dangerous sexual predator who has been getting away with it for years. In his Bang books, he teaches young men that they can get away with it too.

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dhag85
dhag85
9 years ago

@MrPositive

Just shut the fuck up, please.

Zeb Berryman
Zeb Berryman
9 years ago

MrPositive: They all fit the legal definition of rape. Every single one of them. They all are ether sex without consent or consent given under duress. That means rape.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

For anyone who’s interested here’s what English law has to say on the subject:

The prosecution do not have to show that the defendant was violent or threatened violence at the time. Use of force or the threats of force are not essential ingredients of rape. Nor do the prosecution have to prove that the particular complainant resisted or protested. It follows that the prosecution do not have to prove that a complainant communicated or demonstrated her lack of consent by resisting the defendant physically or shouting at him. The fact that she did not say ‘no’ does not mean she was consenting.

Consent involves a free agreement, simply to comply or submit is not necessarily to consent. Compliance and/or submission should not be confused with consent. For example, submission of free choice to repeated demands is not the same thing as consent. Submission achieved by high level psychological coercion in the context of the encounter and/or any pre-existing relationship between the defendant and the complainant may not amount to free agreement. Here the age gap and differences in levels of maturity between the parties may be relevant.

Similarly the threat of force so that free choice has been overborne will not amount to consent freely given. This might apply where a complainant feels intimidated.

It is necessary to focus on the complainant’s state of mind in the circumstances and the overall context of the particular sexual activity in question as you find them to have been. In particular you will need to consider the history of the relationship between the parties and the nature of the sexual encounter. Against that background, you must consider the critical question: Did the particular complainant agree to sexual intercourse by choice, and did she have the freedom and capacity to make that choice?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

Actually, I change my stance, some of those could be sexual assault.

Okay, considering there are people here about to vomit after reading this shit, I am 100% certain they are all rapes. All of them. And if you think some of them aren’t rapes, you need to sit down and quietly think about any sexual experiences you’ve had because you might be a rapists yourself.

CK
CK
9 years ago

If his PUA methods work, why does it seem like the only places he can get laid is with coercion or force in erstwhile soviet blok countries?
How in the world does he monetize giving a speech (that seems likely to not have taken place) to 34 guys? After airfare, hotel, and the rest… he has enough for a meal at Sizzler?

CK
CK
9 years ago

By the way, his latest generation of followers are reactionary neo nazi-ish old white dudes who hardly care about getting laid. Mostly they rant about “Cultural Marxism” and immigration and Roosh’s NeoNazinity er… Masculinity seeks to capitalize on this.
A bunch of Roosh’s “Neo Masculinity” doctrine is ripped of from Jack Donovan and “The Way of Men” (Jack D. by the way is openly homosexual)

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Mr positive,

How are only some of those rape?

Too drunk to consent is rape.

Having sex with someone who is saying no is rape.

Please do explain how you came to the conclusion that these were consensual.

MrPositive
MrPositive
9 years ago

I’m sorry, I hadn’t read it thoroughly enough at first. I do think they are sexual assaults after thinking on it. And I’m happily married for 10 years, so I’m not involved in the dating field. Admin, please delete my prior comments, thanks.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

@Mr Dickhead

This is not a good choice of thread for trolling in. Fuck off.

portlantonio
9 years ago

@epitome of incomprehenidiblity,

Funny you should mention tucker max, roosh actually has a one sided feud with him.

Max got some therapy and now he has a relatively popular dating advice blog with that he does with some other entrepreneurs in Austin. They mentioned roosh in an anti-pua episode (I don’t think they even got his name right) and roosh made one of his 30 minute YouTube rants against max, from his grandmother’s kitchen or wherever.

They later used that video to talk more about what’s wrong with puas.

damselindetech
9 years ago

My browser crashed in the middle of reading the article. Thanks for looking out for me, Chrome <3

CK
CK
9 years ago

Maybe Roosh will get therapy…

level14boss
level14boss
9 years ago

Only thing I’ve got to add is Roosh is vile and I hope he considers himself too alpha to look left and right when crossing the road. Also to anyone that’s read the article that’s having to deal with unpleasant memories my heart goes out to you and genuinely wish you all the best.

History Nerd
History Nerd
9 years ago

@Alan

I think, theoretically at least, Roosh could be convicted of rape based on the totality of his books and blog posts and his notoriety as a sex tourist. The problem is finding a specific accuser and a time and place that lines up with one of his stories. I’d assume at first that he changed details, but people like that can have a tendency to get out of control and do or say something careless. The totality of his work (not just a few passages by themselves) is pretty strong evidence that he has a propensity to not ask for consent.

He could just be joking in bad taste, but that’s fairly implausible if you look at everything he’s written and the nature of much of sex tourism (evading prosecution in one’s home country for sex crimes, etc.).

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
9 years ago

Is Roosh a citizen of Poland or whatever other country he resides in? If so, does Poland extradite its citizens?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Kat
Kat
9 years ago

@nitram, @NicolaLuna
I’m really, really sorry that Roosh is triggering you. He’s a nasty piece of work. Please take care of yourselves in whatever ways you need to.

Personally, I hope that every time he opens his sock drawer, all the socks have big holes in the toes. That can be kind of painful! And then even when he buys new socks–yep. Big holes. (Devilish laughter.)

Sending you and anybody else triggered by this guy good wishes.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@:History Nerd

Very theoretically you could convict even if the victim was unknown.

You don’t need a victim as a witness to convict of an offence (otherwise murder cases would be very easy to defend) and you don’t need to prove an offence took place on a specific date (an indictment can say ‘on a date or dates between x and y).

Say for example someone walked into a police station and said “I want to confess. Years ago I raped a girl. Can’t remember her name or exactly when it was, but I definitely did it”. It would be open to a jury to convict on that admission alone (assuming he didn’t plead guilty).

There have been (admittedly rare) cases where people have been convicted of offences after telling their tale to someone and then being grassed up. it all depends on whether a jury is sure that the events described really happened.

So in theory he could be prosecuted if people believed that his accounts were true.

In practice though the CPS would be very unlikely to ever bring a case like that.

Kat
Kat
9 years ago

@CK

How in the world does he monetize giving a speech (that seems likely to not have taken place) to 34 guys? After airfare, hotel, and the rest… he has enough for a meal at Sizzler?

I don’t know this Roosh guy personally, but I’d bet all kinds of money that his parents support him. I’m guessing that there’s wealth in his background. He’s on a world tour (smallish, but still)! Most careers require that you be a team player at least some of the time. I can’t see him ever doing that.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@portlandio – huh, that’s interesting. Even though Max did some stupid (and in some case dangerous and misogynistic) things, he did seem like a better writer than Roosh V, so it’s not surprising he had a larger audience and Roosh himself wasn’t that big of a deal to him.

Not that life is a giant popularity contest, but I’m glad Max has got his personal life better sorted out.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Sofia

Just to be very pedantic, in extradition cases it’s the receiving state that extradites. The state giving up the suspect ‘renders’ So it’s extradition (in) and rendition (out).

Caroline
Caroline
9 years ago

Damn. I came here to laugh and I actually feel so depressed now.

With that being said, it’s so important that this information is discussed. It’s absolutely horrifying to read about it, and it sickens me to think of these poor women, but this is what Roosh is doing. As laughable and pathetic and hilarious as his latest exploits have been, the fact remains that he is a serial sexual predator and rapist. There’s nothing funny about the pain he has personally caused to dozens of women, the violation of consent and sexual trauma. And who knows how many followers have raped or sexually assaulted women because of what they read in Roosh’s books?

I really wish that the countries Roosh loves to frequent, namely Eastern Europe, would ban him.

As much as I dislike having him in the USA, i feel like there’s a greater awareness of him here than in many foreign countries. Plenty of women who would just shut him down so fast.

As much as Montreal would hate it, it would be kind of awesome if we could just confine him to that city. And he would quickly realize that there would be no way for him to go out and prey on women without being shouted down and having beer poured on his head.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
9 years ago

I don’t think Rosh has Polish citizenship. It’s not that easy to obtain, and I don’t think he’d be interested in it. The main part of his, um, charm to EE women is his American passport. In fact, it’s the only attractive (as it were) part of him.

As to specific women whom he raped there or anywhere else: sadly, I believe that none of them would like to press charges. They all try to repress that experience and would probably deny it’s ever happened if asked. And I don’t blame them.

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
9 years ago

David, can you please put the rancid diarrhea that is Roosh’s quotes behind a cut?

Reading that made me want to vomit all the vomit that has ever existed. EVER. Her vagina was dry as the Sahara? That’s because you were raping her you odious fuckface.

I am literally having violent fantasies regarding Roosh. I’m near Toronto, too. Too old and probably too fat for that heinous pustule, though. (Also I would never carry out my violent fantasies, natch.)

He needs to be in prison. Stat. And possibly also chemically castrated. “Like a pedophile.” Jesus.

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
9 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

And so one learns something new every day

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
9 years ago

@NicolaLuna:

I’m sorry.