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Are Roosh V’s “Bang” books how-to guides for rape?

Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex
Roosh V explains the mechanics of sex

If the almost universally despised pickup artist and rape legalization proponent Roosh Valizadeh is able to deliver his planned talk tomorrow at some as-yet-undisclosed venue in Toronto, he won’t just be talking about the unoriginal blend of warmed-over misogyny he perplexingly calls “neomasculinity.”

He will also be selling his infamous “Bang” books, a series of pickup guides aimed mostly at North American tourists hoping to score easy sex in an assortment of countries in Europe and South America. These guides seem to have been Roosh’s main source of income for the past several years.

So it is worth asking what exactly Roosh is selling here.

Most of the “Bang” books are country-specific guides offering Roosh’s, er, insights into each country’s nightlife, dating mores, and women. “The best way to describe a Ukrainian girl’s personality is that of a corpse,” he explains in Bang Ukraine. “They really don’t show any emotion, interest, or spark when you first approach them. They just stand still with their eyes darting around.”

Alongside Roosh’s recommendations on cities to visit, bars to prowl, and dating “logistics” (rent an apartment near the bars you intend to frequent so you can easily get “girls” back to your place before, you know, they change their minds), Roosh also provides case studies of his sexual, er, conquests of women in each country.

Judging from Roosh’s own descriptions of them, many of these alleged conquests might better be described as rapes.

Again and again in these stories, presented as true, Roosh literally won’t take no for an answer, pressuring reluctant and resistant women into giving him what he wants, in one case using outright physical force in order to continue intercourse with a woman who had changed her mind.

In many of these cases Roosh tells us or at least implies that the woman in question consented to sex, but it is worth asking what kind of “consent” is preceded by literally hours of struggle against a physically imposing man who refuses to believe that no means no. It’s also worth asking what the woman’s own account of the experience would look like.

Are Roosh’s Bang books essentially how-to guides to date rape? Read some of his stories and decide for yourself. [Trigger Warning for the quotes that follow.]

The most notorious passage in any of Roosh’s Bang books comes from Bang Iceland, in which Roosh describes sex with a drunk woman he ushered to his apartment after she was left behind by her friends at a bar.

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she couldn’t legally give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated.

I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Sex with women too drunk to consent is considered rape in Iceland as well as in the US.

Roosh continues:

If a girl is willing to walk home with me, she’s going to get the dick no matter how much she has drunk. …

I figure my dick was inside her about forty minutes after meeting her, likely my fastest bang ever. The sex was as good as drunken sex can get, but I did notice her pussy was drier than the Sahara desert.

Roosh’s sense of self-awareness is as underdeveloped as his conscience.

With another Icelandic woman, Roosh reports:

In the middle of the night I got another boner, put on a condom, and jammed it back in while she was half-asleep. I came and passed out again with the condom still on my dick….

Roosh’s accounts of his sexual escapades in Iceland are sadly rather typical for him. In Bang Poland, he makes clear that the word “no,” won’t stop him, no matter how many times it’s repeated.

We moved to my bed. I got her down to her bra and panties, but she kept saying, “No, no.” I was so turned on by her beauty and petite figure that I told myself she’s not walking out my door without getting fucked. At that moment I accepted the idea of getting locked up in a Polish prison to make it happen.

After more such “foreplay,” Roosh gets what he wants:

I put on a condom, lubed up, and finally got her consent to put it in. … I put her on her stomach and went deep, pounding her pussy like a pedophile. She took it like a champ even though I imagine it must have felt like being fucked by a telescope. My orgasm was from another world.

This is what passes for a happy ending in Roosh’s stories.

In 30 Bangs, a collection of Rooshian case studies, Roosh gives his excruciating account of “sex” with an anonymous Catholic girl a similarly “upbeat” ending:

After dinner we went upstairs and I eased her onto my king-size bed. It took four hours of foreplay and at least thirty repetitions of “No, Roosh, no” until she allowed my penis to enter her vagina. No means no—until it means yes.

The sex was painful for her. I was only the second guy she’d ever had sex with. … She whimpered like a wounded puppy dog the entire time, but I really wanted to have an orgasm, so I was “almost there” for about ten minutes. After sex she sobbed for a good while, talking about how she had sinned in the eyes of God, but in an hour she got horny again and we went at it once more.

In Bang Ukraine, Roosh describes how he used “some muscle” to hold a woman down after she changed her mind during sex.

I was fucking her from behind, getting to the end in the way I normally did, when all of a sudden she said, “Wait stop, I want to go back on top.” I refused and we argued. … She tried to squirm away while I was laying down my strokes so I had to use some muscle to prevent her from escaping. I was able to finish, but my orgasm was weak.

Afterwards I told her she was selfish and that she couldn’t call an audible so late in the game.

Again and again in these stories – and there are more of them — Roosh misleads, manipulates, cajoles, pressures and intimidates women until he gets what he wants. The women could not be clearer in their refusals, telling Roosh no and pushing him away. He doesn’t care.

To judge from his own accounts of his sexual exploits in the books he published himself, Roosh is a dangerous sexual predator who has been getting away with it for years. In his Bang books, he teaches young men that they can get away with it too.

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Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

Sorry Paradoxy, professional wrestling is *not* a sport 😉

This is true. It’s more of an elaborate stage production that ends in the hospital.

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
9 years ago

Clearly anon thinks that the only type of rape is a violent attack from a stranger hiding in an alley or bush.

Coercing someone to have sex with you when they are saying “no” and then continuing to have sex with them while they are “whimpering like a wounded puppy” is just… game?

http://fiercegifs.tumblr.com/post/86489209010

mildlymagnificent
9 years ago

katz

Reading his description of Ukrainian girls it’s tempting to joke about how he wildly misreads social cues, but when you read the whole thing, I’m not sure he does. It seems more like he knows perfectly well that these women don’t want to have sex with him and that’s his whole goal.

He has to know they don’t want anything with or from him. That eyes-darting-everywhere thing is the universal signal for desperately wanting to get away from bores and/or creeps. Looking for someone you know, or someone you can pretend to know, to get them into the conversation or to run up to and enthusiastically greet them (even if you’ve never met them before) just to get away from dreary Aunt Mabel or creepy-guy-from-the-office is an ordinary social process.

He knows.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ anonymous

You like legal stuff right? So let’s have a seminar. We’ll start with some first year law school basics; Contract 101.

You’ll know that a contract is created when someone makes an OFFER and that offer is ACCEPTED. So consider the following scenarios.

In all of them I’m trying to sell a set of genuine Encyclopedia Brittanica. They only cost $100. You’re the prospective purchaser.

1. I come to your home. I admire your valuable collection of ornaments. I say to you “These are nice. Be a shame if anything happened to them. Oh by the way, would you like to buy my encyclopaedias?” You like your ornaments so you cough up $100.

2. I pummel you in the face screaming “Buy my fucking encyclopaedias you shit!” You hand over $100 and I stop hitting you.

3. You actually want some encyclopaedias so you happily fork out the $100. When you get them home you find out they are in fact old telephone directories with a fake cover on them.

4. Whilst you are asleep I sneak into your wallet and take $100. I do leave you the encyclopaedias though.

You subsequently decide you want your money back. I point out to the judge that you accepted my offer so there’s a binding contract. Do you have any legal grounds for arguing against that?

sn0rkmaiden
9 years ago

@anonymous,

Roosh has confessed to committing multiple rapes in print, no sophistry required. What are you having difficulty with here?

@Griffin whatever,

how do we know none of these women didn’t go to the police? Just because he hasn’t been charged doesn’t mean no one has tried. We don’t know how many women regard themselves as having been raped by Roosh. I do know that an installation artist attempted to contact women who had slept with him, and AFAIK not one came forward even anonymously. Clearly he’s someone most women want to forget.

As others have pointed out, Roosh himself has owned the narrative by choosing to publish these accounts, and according to him he’s a rapist.

Wetherby
9 years ago

As others have pointed out, Roosh himself has owned the narrative by choosing to publish these accounts, and according to him he’s a rapist.

Exactly. Whether or not what he’s describing is rape is not open to serious debate: it fits the legal definition of rape by any yardstick you care to name.

The only thing that is open to question is whether or not these incidents actually happened – but in many ways that’s irrelevant given that the books’ purpose is essentially to advocate for rape.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

^Exactly. Even if, by some terrible miscarriage of justice, he doesn’t get convicted of rape at a trial he would certainly be found guilty of advocating for rape, and legally defined rape as well. What’s the term for that crime, Alan? Hate speech? Incitement to violence?

sn0rkmaiden
9 years ago

@Wetherby,

I’m wondering if the true events were worse, usually an unreliable narrator will cast themselves in a better light. If he’s embellishing, shouldn’t the women in his stories at least be enjoying themselves?

Admittedly I think in his mind these stories are proof of game, because he got to have sex with women who clearly didn’t want him, so perhaps their obvious reluctance makes him look better to his followers? I’ve read PUAHate (as was) dissing and attempting to dox PUA and former friend of Roosh, Christian McQueen; accusing him of not needing game because according to them he was good looking with a decent job and therefore girls want to sleep with him anyway. Maybe men follow Roosh precisely because he’s repulsive and isn’t likely to find willing sexual partners by honest means? And by repulsive I mean the whole package, not his looks. But shit, he’s not teaching them seduction he’s teaching them rape.

Btw, there’s a petition going round demanding amazon stop selling Roosh’s books, it turned up in my email and links to articles here. I’ll post it here if anyone’s interested?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ SunnyS

Here in Blighty we’ve now codified all those sorts of offences under the unified title of “incitement”

For hours of legal fun click here:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/inchoate_offences/

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

Oops sorry, meant “encouragement”; it’s now *not* incitement

I preferred incitement, it has a suitably criminal ring to it, encouragement sounds positively jolly.

Johanna Roberts
Johanna Roberts
9 years ago

@Alan

I do enjoy all the legal stuff you post. 🙂 And maybe you chime up with the actual laws and such will stop these trolls. I mean, I doubt it but it’s a nice thought AND a fun read.

(Personally if I woke up missing 100 dollars with a decent encyclopedia in my house I’d be YAY! but that’s just me XD)

Emma
Emma
9 years ago

When he wrote the “Don’t Bang Denmark” book, it hurt Danish (journalists’) feelings, and primetime TV brought in man panels to discuss what was wrong with Danish women. That’s what happens when journalists don’t do background checks on who wrote the damn books. They took a rapey sex tourist’s criticism seriously, instead of being happy that it seems like he had very limited (if any) success raping anyone in the country.

Blergh… he should just have his passport revoked.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

Is that shithouse fly still trolling here?

http://images16.fotki.com/v316/photos/2/292835/5750312/TrollBGone-vi.jpg

Shoo, shit-licker, shoo.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

Occam’s razor: it slices, it dices, it shreds feminist sophistry to pieces!

Put that down, you’re not old enough to shave. You’ll cut your eyes out.

Needless to say, attempting to discuss the specifics of each case with the hysterical sophists who make up the bulk of this blog’s readership would be a time wasting exercise in futility.

Translation: Trollicus here is too stupid to actually understand the law, and too lazy to bother making even a halfway cogent argument. He thinks that by calling us names and posting shit-eating grinnies, he’s already done all it takes to win an argument. WRONG.

Oops! Was that the zzzzzt of a slipping razor I heard, taking a chunk out of troll’s fingie? I do believe it was!

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
9 years ago

How long before the Anonymous Rape Apologist starts posting things like

“Am not two times ten?”

I have seen this bigotry theatre so often by now
– Troll barges in and spouts bigotry

> Regular Forummers quote actual evidence to the contrary or argue whatever point they were discussing

– Troll posts some variation on Uhuh or Nuhuh without offering any counterarguments or proof

> Regular Forummers call him out on his BS

– Troll calls them dumb, ignorant or if he thinks they are female “hysterical”

> Regular Forummers call him out on his BS some more or tell him to fuck off

etc

It is simply boring to me at this point.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

Look, kid, if you insist on goofing off here instead of doing your homework because your teacher/principal/mother is a girl and girls have cooties, just remember that your bad grades will be your fault, not the matriarchy’s.

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
9 years ago

Most rape apologists tend to feel it is magically different when it happens to them or other men for some reason.

If someone spikes their food or drink and rapes them, they totally did not have it coming.
If they get drunk, then of course a random man is not entitled to beat them up, take their money and penetrate them sexually against their wishes.
If they walk the street in tight pants or bare chested, no one is allowed to beat them up and (gang) rape them.
If they go to a strange woman’s house, she is not entitled to have them raped by her ten best friends or torture him to death for sport.

Because
That is different!

And penises are magic. That is a totally rational argument ™

Yawn!

pkayden
pkayden
9 years ago

So if it’s okay to write books on how to rape women, is it also okay to write books on how to rob, beat up or murder people? I don’t get it. Roosh should be in jail for rape and advocating rape. He’s no different than Bill Cosby.
I am ashamed of Canada for letting him into their country to advocate raping women.

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
9 years ago

I am almost tempted to write a Roosh parody
It would be a manual on how to ensnare PUAs and treat them the way they treat others.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ pkayden

In England you can’t even write about growing cannabis:

http://www.1cor.com/1315/?form_1155.replyids=572

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

@pkayden
To be fair, he was already in Canada when they found out about his writings.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Bad news you guys. That pregnant Paraguayan girl who was raped by her stepfather has given birth. She never did get that abortion. Poor girl.

Oh, and to add insult to injury, Mike Huckabee made a statement to CNN that he agreed with the decision to force her to give birth. Because of course. Because it’s Mike fucking Huckabee.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

Alan Robertshaw | August 16, 2015 at 4:47 am
[Sorry Paradoxy, professional wrestling is *not* a sport 😉 ]

http://media.giphy.com/media/XmMTJhITgcjuM/giphy.gif

How very dare you sir.

[I kid, I kid.]

I know that it’s not a “real” sport in the idea that things are sometimes decided in advance and there’s all these personae to contend with, but I will say that it still takes a hell of a lot of physical training and strength to throw grown muscular men and women around a ring.

I also think that one of the current Divas actually was a cheerleader before coming to the WWE, so there’s that too.

Whatever the case, I still enjoy it. I like the drama that ends with two athletes throwing down in the ring (granted, sometimes I wish the rivalries would just fucking END already, but yeah).

cretaceouskitteh78
cretaceouskitteh78
9 years ago

I’m wondering if any of the women in Roosh’s alleged encounters have ever shared their version of events. Because they might be true but this shit seriously sounds like a form of “erotic” fiction designed to appeal to the worst and most pathetic men on the planet.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Paradoxy

Actually, after I’d seen a documentary about just how hard the guys (and gals) go and the athleticism involved I did develop a huge admiration for the people who take part. There’s a huge skill level there and it’s certainly dangerous (isn’t there like a 25% within 10 years mortality rate?)

You seen that video where you can hear the competitors and refs brief each other during the matches? It’s really interesting.