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MRA Paul Elam: If a feminist pours a drink on me, I’d be justified in killing her

Paul Elam: Might kill you for pouring a drink on him
Paul Elam: Might kill you for pouring a drink on him

Apparently jealous of all the media attention being paid to the Montreal misadventures of PUA shitweasel Roosh Valizadeh, the recipient of an unwanted beer bath at the hands of an angry feminist this past Saturday night, MRA shitweasel Paul Elam has announced to the world that if any lady feminists try that with him, he’ll punch their lights out.

Hell, he adds, he might even kill them. And he thinks he would be completely justified in doing so. 

Elam, the founder and, ahem, CEO of A Voice for Men, describes himself as “nonviolent” and his site as “doggedly antiviolence.” But he wants to warn all drink-holding feminists who might now or in the future be in his vicinity not to “mistake my nonviolence for pacifism.”

“Being an advocate for nonviolent change does not mandate anyone to be a punching bag,” Elam writes.

And while self-defense needs to be proportional to the threat, he argues, it’s safe for MRAs and PUAs and “anyone [else] who dissents honestly from feminism” to assume that if a feminist tosses a drink at you, they are literally trying to kill you.

After Roosh got beer tossed on him this past weekend, you see, one feminist on Twitter noted that alcohol is flammable, and suggested in a jokey hashtag that people encountering him “throw smokes” at him.

This is, of course, a deeply shitty thing to say. Roosh may or may not have deserved the beer-soaking; if some of the things he’s described doing to women in his various books are true, he probably deserves to be in jail.

But, no, he doesn’t deserve to be lit on fire. And you would be hard-pressed to find any feminists (including, I’m pretty sure, that Tweeter) who actually think he deserves a fiery death at the hand of a vigilante mob.

As far as Elam has decided, though, that one shitty tweet suggests that any feminist with a drink in her or his hand is a potential murderer. If a feminist tosses a drink at you, he argues, you can reasonably assume this is an act of attempted murder. 

Given the current climate it becomes rationally questionable whether a feminist throwing a flammable liquid on me intends to ignite it. My personal option at this point would be to assume they would. Thus I would make my response proportional to someone trying to incinerate me. That means they would have to go down and at the very least be completely incapacitated, by any means necessary.

Personally, I think it would be a really bad idea to wait till you see them strike a match. It is now reasonable [to] assume that this is what they are going to do.

Emphasis mine, in this and in the quotes that follow.

Elam has apparently confused “reasonable” with “completely and utterly unreasonable what the fuck are you talking about you piece of shit?”

And it gets worse:

The question for me is whether I will risk being immolated in order to not be arrested. I won’t. And while each person has to make their own decision I don’t suggest anyone roll the dice on these insane ideologues. … 

In the end I am betting this time of crisis will not be long lived. The feminist narrative is increasingly being recognized for the joke that it is. The time will soon come when very few people will even admit to being a feminist, much less take the risk of assaulting people in its name.

Till that happens, though, I think feminists of all kinds should be aware that belonging to a nonviolent movement does not mean you are a pacifist.

Trust me, Paul. No feminist will ever mistake you for a pacifist.

As an MHRA I am willing to die for my beliefs. I only think it prudent to caution that I am equally willing to kill to protect myself.

What the fuck is wrong with you, you fucking piece of shit?

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

@ Penny Smith

Like a clearly-marked previously-unopened can of soda.

Best make that diet soda; otherwise he’ll think you’re trying to give him Diabetes.

naira8
6 years ago

Why, it’s almost like the MRM is not about human rights, but about anger that women mostly don’t want to be treated like sentient blow up dolls!

Sentience is misandry. I think they want “ambulatory” and “willing to follow all orders.”

I just can’t help but wonder when and how badly Elam (and others like him) are going to explode.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Best make that diet soda; otherwise he’ll think you’re trying to give him Diabetes.

But what if he’s allergic to artificial sugars?! MURDERER. Well, ANNOYING RASH CAUSER, but in Elam’s mind, same difference.

Binjabreel
6 years ago

“Shrodinger’s Immolating Feminist” either sounds like an awesome band name, or a pro-wrestling move.

Binjabreel
6 years ago

Hey, y’all, you can seriously fuck yourself up with flaming alcohol. Just ask Richard Pryor.

A small amount will indeed flame off without burning hot enough, but let’s face it- that’s true of other incredibly dangerous things, as well. I’ve seen someone almost die from fucking up a Flaming Dr. Pepper.

Falconer
6 years ago

I’ve seen someone almost die from fucking up a Flaming Dr. Pepper.

Why would someone ever try to set the nectar of the gods on fire?

(Sorry to hear someone got hurt trying to have fun.)

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

RE: alcohol burning

You can pour pure/near pure alcohol on (the palm) your hand and set it alight without being burned. However, this isn’t really because alcohol burns at a low temperature, it’s because the alcohol evaporates off your skin before burning, and because heat rises. (fun fact, a similar phenomenon also works if you pour relatively small amounts of liquid nitrogen on yourself. You won’t freeze or experience anything more than a cool sensation because it will also evaporate from your body heat before it touches you.) It works best on your palm because there’s no hair growing on it; if you tried other parts of your body the alcohol could soak your body hair, be unable to fully evaporate, and essentially act as a wick to draw the flame to your skin. Same goes for most kinds of fabric.

Tl;Dr- technically it’s not the alcohol that will burn you, but if the alcohol sets hair, clothing, or other flammable materials alight, it will burn you.

Nequam
Nequam
6 years ago

@Falconer: they weren’t setting the soda itself on fire– a Flaming Dr Pepper is a flaming shot drink that supposedly tastes like Dr Pepper and is composed of 3:1 Amaretto to something very flammable like Bacardi 151 or Everclear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_Doctor_Pepper

painteyelash
painteyelash
6 years ago

He is apparently very upset at this woman, for stupid reasons indeed – but he is fine with Erin Pizzy throwing glasses of wine at people? Okay, Elam.

Nitram
6 years ago

Prios, lol!

But everyone knows only people with those magical vaginas can shut down things.

legelle
legelle
6 years ago

Beer is not flammable. So if someone tosses beer at elam and he knocks them out it’s not selfdefense

Nitram
6 years ago

I put out fires with beer! I think that wig was more flammable, in which case, wasn’t roosh asking for it by wearing that wig? Feminists can’t help but light men on fire, why would he put himself in that position? Slut

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

they weren’t setting the soda itself on fire– a Flaming Dr Pepper is a flaming shot drink that supposedly tastes like Dr Pepper

WELL I KNOW WHAT MY FAVORITE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE IS NOW
comment image

A.A. Wils
6 years ago

@Nequam: A Flaming Dr. Pepper, you say? I need to try this sometime…hmmm.

Falconer
6 years ago

A mixed drink that tastes almost like flat Dr. Pepper? Pass.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

It never fails. One feminist makes a rather tasteless comment about an admitted rapist, and Elam, the head honcho of the MRAs, immediately has to write a rant about wanting to beat up and possibly murder any drink-carrying feminist in his general vicinity, possibly in order to reaffirm to the world that his group is still the shittiest thing since roadside restrooms.

But feminism and the MHRM are totes the same, you know. /sarcasm

katz
katz
6 years ago

“Shrodinger’s Immolating Feminist” either sounds like an awesome band name, or a pro-wrestling move.

I think it sounds like a philosophical thought experiment.

epitome of incomprehensibility

Very rational and humanist, Paul. It’s time anti-feminist men stood up to the very real and present threat of feminists setting them on fire.

A.A. Wils
6 years ago

@Anarchonist: I think Elam is just, ya know, attention-whoring. Got jealous that the feeeeemales were paying so much attention to Doosh, would be my thought.

@Falconer: I’ll give any adult beverage at least one try. But my preferences are in this order: Laphroaig or Lagavulin scotch neat, “experimental” microbrews (had a turmeric tripel once that knocked my socks off), Pinot Noir, Chianti, Merlot, “regular” beer (cause sometimes you just want a simple beer), mojitos, Moscow mules, margaritas. Otherwise, I’m open to new experiences, especially where fire is involved.

keshkirshkinra
6 years ago

I find it funny that he thinks people are finding feminism rediculous. More high profile people identify as feminists now than have in the past decade.

Amused
6 years ago

A woman poured beer on a man. Beer contains alcohol. Alcohol is inflammable. Gasoline is also inflammable. Ergo, feminists want to douse Paul Elam in gasoline and set him on fire.

QED, bitchez.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

@amused: beer is mostly water. like 95% water. water douses fire. therefore no one was in any danger of being lit on fire. QED, dumbass.

freemage
6 years ago

Wait, wait. I think I get it. Paulie is attempting to out-Alpha Roosh by declaring what Roosh should’ve done to put the beer-flinging feminist in her place. Of course, he’s a sack of shit, trying to out-shit another sack of shit, so it’s kind of disgusting to watch, like most of Elam’s stuff. I do admire his troll devotees who decided to brave the possibility of virtual beer being tossed on them to come and defend Elam’s honor, though. (Can we get a pint of virtual throwing beer added to the welcome package? It sounds like a fun sport to have with the chewtoys. For instance….)

Cibouwat Horsifomidom | August 10, 2015 at 6:55 pm

The only real violence here was the assault that occurred when someone threw a drink on him. Why aren’t we discussing the real violence? Has the perpetrator been arrested? If not, why?

Throwing a drink on someone is, at most, an example of disorderly conduct, not ‘violence’ except by the most inane standards imaginable. DC arrests rarely happen after the incident in question, as it’s more of the court’s time than it’s worth to prosecute. So unless the cop is there to break up a disturbance and SEES you throw a drink on someone, you’re not getting busted for it, sorry/notsorry. *Throws a beer on Cibouwat.*

katz
katz
6 years ago

Isidore: Amused is pretty clearly joking.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

If that’s the case I apologize. I thought I remembered Amused from other trolling.

freemage
6 years ago

isidore13: I believe Amused was posting sarcastically. I followed the link to their blog and it looked reasonably progressive at first glance. (They’ve got a post about the dumbest things used to defend bigoted humor, so, yeah, probably sarcasm/satire, here.) That said, Amused, even in jest we usually avoid ‘bitch’ and derivatives around these parts–too many trolls trying to get away with using it for it to not seem like a red flag.

On completely irrelevant topics, a small victory. Target has announced a decision to stop gender-marketing their products, other than apparel. In particular, no more ‘girls/boys’ toy sections.

Flora
Flora
6 years ago

Relevant information: amaretto plus Coke = alcoholic Dr. Pepper proxy. You’re welcome.

Chase Elliott Lara
6 years ago

Isn’t his movement the one that advocates firebombing judges and courthouses?

Amused
6 years ago

@isidore13: No big. I frequently find that no amount of sarcasm is obvious enough when talking about extremists.

Ktoryx
Ktoryx
6 years ago

…Beer isn’t flammable.

It just isn’t. We aren’t talking about absinthe here, we’re talking about beer. As in, “mostly water” beer.

I mean, I have come to expect this level of bugfuck crazy from Elam, that’s no shock, but… he has seen actual beer, right? He knows what it is?

Shotagonist
Shotagonist
6 years ago

Beer has more water than alcohol, it doesn’t burn very well.

Amused
6 years ago

Chemistry is misandry. It’s not a coincidence that in gendered languages, the word for “chemistry” is always feminine!

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Thanks, Amused, I’m glad there’s no hard feelings 🙂

pecunium
6 years ago

Re flambe: Not from beer, or wine, at temperatures compatible with drinking (I say this because I managed to flambe some sauvignon blanc when cooking in a cast iron dutch oven, over open flame. Those were some tasty chickens, but I digress).

On the one hand, Elam is a menace to society. His rhetorical excess, and the festering cesspool that is AVfM (and the affiliate spinoffs) are a blight on the body politic; in that they incite anger, and violence, against a portion of the population for no other reason than they exist.

On the other, I don’t think he’ll actually do it. Like Roosh the combination of surprise, and shock, will short circuit his reaction; and the people around will intervene. I’ve seen a few drinks tossed in my time. The result has always been the same, the person getting the drink in their face is madly wiping themselves off while the tosser does what they planned (be it fight, or flight).

Roosh declared that he would “go to jail” if he was protested. The implication was he’d get violent with the women trying to “destroy [his] life’s work”. When actually faced with them he 1: donned a disguise, and 2: fled at confrontation.

What I saw in that (badly lit) video was two drinks tossed on him, as he was being castigated, and called out. The calling out is the critical point. He was facing the sort of protest he said he would engage at all costs. He backed down.

Elam isn’t Roosh, but there is a strong similarity in the rhetoric (and the bash a ***** post has all sorts of disclaimers about how it’s not worth going to jail). So, while I do think Elam might commit violence after a beer gets tossed, I think he would be the tosser.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

Relevant information: amaretto plus Coke = alcoholic Dr. Pepper proxy. You’re welcome.

comment image

FINALLY! A way to make Coke drinkable!

Hahaha, jk.

pepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsipepsi

pecunium
6 years ago

Anything less than 100 proof won’t burn: that’s the definition of the “proof” system,

No. Alcohol burns. When adulterated the adulterants inhibit that burning, but alcohol is also volatile. At concentrations of greater than 35 percent the concentration of vapor at the surface is usually enough to ignite. If warmed (e.g. Christmas pudding, crepes suzette), it’s gonna catch fire.

Since throwing a drink increases the surface area putting flame to a person doused in 70 proof, or higher, is likely to ignite.

As to the “definition” of the proof system, there isn’t just one. UK 80 proof is US 84.6 proof.

pecunium
6 years ago

Cibouwat Horsifomidom | August 10, 2015 at 6:55 pm

The only real violence here was the assault that occurred when someone threw a drink on him. Why aren’t we discussing the real violence? Has the perpetrator been arrested? If not, why?

Because the offense was trivial.

Also, “violence”… not really. It was an affront. It may even have been an assault. It wasn’t violence.

Furthermore, given that the person who threw the drink knew who Roosh was. Says that Roosh laid unwanted hands on her, and is aware that Roosh has admitted to 1: using drink to make this targets more pliable 2: engaged in sex with at least one woman whom he knew to be incapable of giving legal consent, it is not unreasonable (given the cited Canadian statutes cited above) to grant some consideration that this was response to provocation and an act of self-defense.

pecunium
6 years ago

And I fed the blockquote monster. Sigh.

Falconer
6 years ago

TBH it was probably pining for some of your fine commentary to eat, pecunium.

I’m doing my best to keep it sated but my fare is pedestrian at best.

pecunium
6 years ago

Too bad my dearth of recent didn’t starve it to death.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

I…I think my previous comment got eaten.

freemage
6 years ago

Pandapool: Pepsi drinkers unite! (Seriously, though, for some reason Coke usually does better as a mixed-drink base than Pepsi–and amaretto and Coke was a constant order of mine when I was still doing the bar-thing–but yeah, Pepsi all the way when it’s just that.)

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Pepsi? What kind of monsters are you people? Pepsi is too sweet. Coke for the win! Especially kosher /Mexican Coke with real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup.

pecunium
6 years ago

freemage: Coke has more acid, so it stands up to the sweet elements in drinks better. The flavor profile of Pepsi is sweeter, which can lead to things ending up overbalanced to the treacly side.

pecunium
6 years ago

The balance is tricky though: Sugar coke is better than HFCS, but RC, which has a little less sweet, a little more bite, mixes for shit.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

Fentimans Curiosity Cola

[The curiosity presumably being why it’s called cola when it doesn’t taste like cola]

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@freemage

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/tghf.gif

You can be my wingman anytime.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@WWTH

You should try Mexican Pepsi then.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

@pecunium
I think Cibou was joking. I read their post as a mimickry of the type of rhetoric rape/DV apologists use when a case pops up in the media.

Best make that diet soda; otherwise he’ll think you’re trying to give him Diabetes.

But what if he’s allergic to artificial sugars?! MURDERER. Well, ANNOYING RASH CAUSER, but in Elam’s mind, same difference

No no no. Since Aspartame K has been linked (loosely) to malignant tumours, if you throw diet soda at Paul you’re trying to give him cancer.

Also, if you throw water at him you’re trying to drown him and if you throw orange juice then it’s an acid attack.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

The ludicrous thing is that Roosh and Paulie don’t even know how to do the Manly Man thing right. Even the most sexist man is supposed to know that if you pursue the ladies too aggressively, you’re either going to get slapped or doused. It’s an occupational hazard, and you are supposed to take it and hold onto your dignity as best you can. Whining and talking about pressing charges or full nuclear responses do not make you look manly in the eyes of all but the most seriously committed fanboys. Roush has not done himself any favors with his whimpering response to the Montreal fiasco — particularly after bragging about how he was going to beard the feminist lionesses in their own den.