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Perplexing MRA Meme of the Day: “Saying She’s Not a Real Feminist is Like Playing Russian Roulette”

Uh, what?
Uh, what?

So I found the meme above on the Twitter, posted by some FeMRA I’ve never heard of but who for some reason has me blocked.

I’m stumped. A little reverse-image search shows that the pic is a still from a K-Pop video. Which … doesn’t really help me to make sense of this at all.

Any guesses?

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lux

I like the symposium thing, sound so serious and important…

I’m just pretentious. 🙂

In what experience I gathered as a political activist in the past few years, I very quickly realized you can’t build power without consensus, and we don’t have a lot of people on our side

I don’t know what the position is in Latin America but in the UK it’s almost axiomatic that “the left” (for want of a better term) concentrates more on differences between the different schools of though and ignores what the groups might otherwise have in common.

It’s actually a joke over here as illustrated in this clip:

That was based on the various iterations of the socialist workers’ groups at the time but “Judean People’s Front” gets used a lot in political discussion even today. Our Labour party is going through something at the moment as they seek a new leader.

The Old Hack
The Old Hack
5 years ago

Errr… ummm… maybe it is aimed at pick-up artists? And is a warning to never try to pick up any feminist even if you think she isn’t really a feminist and therefore is safe to pick up? Because if she turns out to be a feminist after all and you do pick her up, she might do something terrible to you, like make you think.

The above requires the assumption that only women can be feminists. I think that one isn’t hard for most MRAs to manage.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lux

To follow up on that though; I have a thing about animal rights and a lot of friends who are very passionate (they get arrested a lot etc.).

The thing is, I’m a meat eater. Now there are a few vegan animal rights activist who think that completely excludes me from the cause. I might as well be eating babies as far as they’re concerned. However the bulk of activists, including the vegan ones, have the attitude that “well, at least you’re on board with a lot of the issues”. So we work together on those things (unnecessary experiments, SeaWorld, megafauna poaching etc.) and they leave me to my own devices* when they’re campaigning for veganism etc.

[*Well, apart from all the pics of vegan MMA guys and plaintive messages of “Please stop eating piggies” that I get 🙂 ]

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Might want to call and let the local media know Roosh is in the area, if nothing else.

Yes, some local media might be interested. Some might not be.

Some media people read this blog, after all. 🙂

Luzbelitx - from my phone
Luzbelitx - from my phone
5 years ago

@Alan

Actually, left leaning parties in Latin America are usually majority, as most countries had really tiny elites working for foreign interests during long times.

As soon as democracy was strong enough to hold together through clean elections, socialist parties started quickly rising to power, see Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador.

In other countries it wasn’t so quick or so smooth, but left parties are still important and united.

Argentina is a special case, since we have Peronism since the early 40s, and it snatched the popular masses which were only beginning to organize under socialism back then.

Peronism is both left and right leaning, which led to bloody fights among fractions, but pushed the greatest socialist reforms (then pulled them back when the right wing got to power).

So the “traditional” left parties, anarchism and socialism mainly, either were absorbed by Peronism, or were left with a minority of followers and went the same way as the Judean People’s front.

katz
katz
5 years ago

Off-topic: Time Magazine is wanking about Netflix offering parental leave. Money quote:

As a society, we’d do better to acknowledge the fact that women (and men, for that matter, though in a different way) change as a result of having children, and often do care less about work. And what’s wrong with that? Isn’t that why people have babies? To make life more meaningful? And, dare I say it, less focused on work?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lix

Peronism was/is quite fascinating. My jurisprudence teacher was from Argentina so we discussed it a lot. It is, as you rightly point out, a very good illustration that the old “left/right” dichotomy often fails as a descriptor.

I’ve always wondered what would have happened had there been no Eva Peron. How big a part did her persona play? Were people thinking “It’s the issues, stupid” and she was just a sideshow, or was she genuinely influential in a purely political sense?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Oops, getting your name wrong even more than usual there, sorry. I’ll have to teach the autocorrect to actually put your whole proper name in at some stage. Obviously, as a bloke and therefore inherently brilliant at STEM things that should be easy for me. I’ll put the fact that it isn’t down to sabotage by feminists or something.

jpageusmc
5 years ago
Reply to  katz

@ Katz

I read the article, but I’m not clear what your position is. Just curious because it’s an interesting piece, and I think worthy of discussion.

katz
katz
5 years ago

jpageusmc: I looked at your blog and it’s a joke, right? Because if it is, it’s a very funny one. Particularly the Kierkegaard reference.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Aunt Edna re: Roosh – “Battle of Montreal” indeed. He’s being silly. All this overblown “I stand firm, I fight the good fight” rhetoric for an alleged self-help lecture.

Plus, as I understand it, the goal of the protests isn’t to harass him personally or to shut the lecture itself down, so it wouldn’t even need to be in the same place. It’s more to call attention to his bullshit.

jpageusmc
5 years ago

@ katz

Yeah, I really need to jump back into that, it was a super false start to be sure.

It’s nice writing on comments pages these days, at least.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

@Alan

Oooooh I could talk all day about Eva Peron…!

http://image.blingee.com/images16/content/output/000/000/000/583/443011589_186949.gif

I believe Peron himself was a socialist man, and a strategic genius (or close enough).

I don’t think he would have allowed Eva’s public life if he wasn’t sure she was under (his) control. Remember there was a big age and power gap between them, despite their love being real as well.

However, I think her influence found its limit in the 1952 elections, which was women’s first election ever in Argentina, thanks to Eva an Peron.

She wanted to be Peron’s Vice President, but the military circles to which Peron belonged would not allow it. He chose them over his wife, and forced her to resign her candidacy.

I think she was a great politician, and without her Peronism might not have won so menay people’s hearts.

Even though Eva wasn’t a feminist, and rejected feminism in her time, she pushed for women’s votes and rights, which Peron himself might have left alone except for her.

There’s another thing to consider: Peron’s third -and last- wife María Estela (better known for her artistic name Isabelita.

He entrusted her to prepare his return to Argentina in the 70s, and he did name her Vice President. She became Argentina and Latin America’s first woman President in 1973, after Peron’s death.

She was allied with the right wing of the party, which eventually turned on her on a coup d’etat, which gave way to the worst dictatorship of the century in our country.

Some hints seem to indicate Peron believed Eva’s figure and political career was entirely of his making, and he could therefore do it again with Maria Estela.

It also seems like he didn’t live long enough to see his mistake. Or perhaps he did…?

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Meanwhile in Algeria, a man is suing his wife for £13,000 because he saw her for the first time without makeup. His charge against her is “psychological suffering” and he claims she “deceived him” by always wearing makeup before they got married.

http://www.comeonengland.org/2015/08/06/groom-sues-wife-for-fraud-after-seeing-her-without/

When you’re a man in a country that thinks women are chattel, it’s not surprising if you turn into a whiny spoiled brat.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@sunnysombrera

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/direwolf.gif

How the hell does someone not see someone without makeup until they’re married?

marinerachel
marinerachel
5 years ago

I THINK this is another attempt to accuse feminists of being racist?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lux

Yes, she’s a fascinating enigma; so many questions.

Was she merely a cipher for Juan? Did he just take some girl with no interest in politics and merely use her as a mouthpiece? If so did he see her acting abilities as her main attributes?

Or did she capitalise on the political education Juan gave her and become a true free agent (whether Juan intended this or not)?

She did pretty well on her tour of Europe. Obviously there was a glamour to her, but isn’t charm one of a diplomat’s most useful attributes anyway?

A woman who actively did not identify as a feminist, yet is probably personally responsible for the introduction of women’s suffrage and formed her own political party especially for women.

Juan’s failure to repeat the experiment (if that’s what it was) would seem to suggest that she was her own woman and not merely a puppet. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had she not died so young. President in her own right?

I can see why you could talk about her all day.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

I guess many questions will remain unanswered…

The tour of Europe was like a fire baptism for her in a way. Only after that did her local political career begin.

Within the country, she was like a sort of ambassador for Peron, she often handled the negotiations between workers and businessmen herself.

She was also in charge of the Eva Foundation, which provided for urgent matters of the poorest. Millions of sewing machines (an therefore, work for women) were delivered by the Foundation, and even more toys to children all over the country.

This made her some sort of living hotline to the President, and the result seems to show she did a good job.

But then again, I think we won’t find to people -nah, two peronists– who will agree to where the limit was.

I think I will always place my bets on Eva, but I may have my own bias on that 😉

Another dimension to this husband-wife binary is the Nestor-Cristina duet.

Unlike Evita, Cristina always had a career of her own, and she carried on by herself after Nestor’s death. [Insert one minute of silence here]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1395/5125248514_31c47a9a43.jpg

Since Peronism is a movement, or even a community, more than an ideology, there is a certain feeling that it’s somehow redeeming of Peron that the movement he started was able to produce a more equal marriage-leadership 70 years later.

And of course, both followers and enemies have compared Cristina to Evita and Maria Estela, both to paint her in a good and in a bad light.

Argentine politics are weird.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

@Everyone

Sorry for the teal deering on politics, we have preliminary elections this weekend, and this is helping me get through the anxiety of the whole thing (a lot is at stake right now, whatever side one’s in).

Have a meditating kitty to compensate:
comment image

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

Ah, Cristina.

Over here Argentina generally only conjures up two thoughts in the public consciousness.

The unpleasant incident in the South Atlantic and football (Ossie Ardiles = National Treasure; Maradonna = pantomime villain)

I know that’s a subject you find distressing so I won’t dwell on it; suffice it to say Cristina only really features in the media here when she makes a comment about the islands.

Shifting to more pleasant topics, are you familiar with a woman called Sandi Toksvig? She’s another National Treasure here in England (even though she’s from Denmark). She’s a really funny comedian and broadcaster but of more import she’s been heavily involved in setting up a new political party (which is why I think you might find her interesting).

It’s called (a bit unimaginatively I think, but then again it’s not my call) the Women’s Equality Party.

It sort of ties in with the earlier discussion about “radicalism”. The WEP is obviously a feminist party by any reasonable definition, but it seems very ‘harmless’ if that makes sense.

It’s a bit like Sandi herself. She’s a well out lesbian but of the very ‘non threatening’ sort. She doesn’t compromise her identity of her beliefs but for some reason she doesn’t scare ‘middle England’ (that’s a term we use for the small ‘c’ conservative mainstream over here).

I really think her party could do very well if it gets it’s act together. It seems able to present all the ideas of feminism as if they were the most obvious common sense truisms going. Now of course, they are that, but as we’ve chatted about before, for some reason progressive people often have difficulty in selling even the most self evident of messages.

I probably haven’t expressed myself very clearly there. I’m sure you’ll understand it and be able to articulate it much better than me on account of you (a) being a woman and (b) being somewhat brighter than me.

Flint
Flint
5 years ago

Looking at that meme, I counter with another:

YOLO!

*pulls the trigger over and over again*

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

As a general thing, most political movements (that have any success) develop a large group of people who are focused on getting their group into the mainstream of society or, to put it another way, changing society enough so their group will be accepted in the mainstream. Such people are willing to accept a great deal of diversity in their group and to compromise a great deal, build consensus, form big tents, etc. In the fight for African-American civil rights, this was the group that Dr. King and his allies led.
There is also a much smaller group of people that have a more purist point of view, who are more interested in what the future SHOULD look like than in what can reasonably be attained at the moment. These are the radicals, who in the civil rights movement included leaders like Stokely Carmichael, Huey Newton, and Malcolm X.
IMO a movement needs both these groups, mainstreamers to pursue and consolidate whatever gains become possible, and radicals to keep looking into the future and keep the movement from losing its focus on the eventual ideal while most of the group are engaged in their day-to-day struggles to enter the mainstream. I think you can see both these groups.in the feminist movement, starting in the early days when the mainmstreamers were led by NOW and people like Betty Friedan while the radicals were led by people like Ti-Grace Atkinson.
It is difficult to avoid having some degree of hostility develop between the visionaries and the pragmatists, but a great deal that was radical feminism at the beginning is mainstream today, and much that is radical today will almost surely be mainstream a few decades from now.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

As to the OP, I think that in order to understand that sort of thing, you have to completely wash your brain of everything you know about feminism and then read nothing but anti-feminist screeds for several months. I doubt anyone here is willing to submit to that sort of torture.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

Oh, oh, and there’s a creepy twist for the Eva – María Estela transition!

You may have heard of Lopez Rega also know as “el Brujo” (The Wizard). *

He was Maria Estela’s advisor and Minister of Social Welfare until he fell in disgrace for imposing unpopular policies.

He was also leader of the Triple A (Argentine Anti-communist Alliance), a para-state force which basically hunted down and kidnapped left wing Peronists a couple of years

He was a mystic and even wrote at least one book and one manifesto in occultism, the book being about astrological prophecies for the following decades. (I tracked it down but couldn’t afford it).

Apparently he used Evita’s embalmed body to try to transfer her soul into María Estela through the use of magic arts.

Whether this was with or without knowledge of Peron, I could not find out yet.

* The young journalist who gave him the nickname paid it with his life. He was one of the beloved heroes of our LGBT resistance.

jpageusmc
5 years ago

@ Grumpy

I think you’re giving it too much credit. It seems to be less its insidious sexist content than its total poor presentation that is responsible for its incomprehensibility. Which itself says plenty since a meme has about 3 steps in its creation and its entire purpose is to make some concept easy to understand…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ lux

I didn’t know about that, so thank you.

I’ll read up on that. I have a bit of an interest in that sort of thing; like the Anenehrbe in Germany. (wonder if there’s a connection)

You really do provide some great intellectual stimulation. Told you you’re a muse!

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

One of the interesting theories I’ve heard about how the Eva/Juan binary worked was that she could do the rabble-rousing, and then he could come in and be conciliatory and statesman-like, and therefore get things done. After she died, he started having to give the rabble-rousing speeches himself, and therefore lost his ability to reconcile factions, leading to the success of the coup against him. (IANAExpertinArgentinianHistory and welcome rectification.)

There does seem to be some justification for the view that, especially in his later years, Peron’s interests were more about his own self-image than in helping Peronism to become self-sustaining — that is, he wasn’t able to accept the idea of “Peronism without Peron” and therefore set the country up for what came after. But again, IANAEAH.

My favorite story remains the one that the reason he lived so frugally in exile was because he couldn’t get into Eva’s Swiss bank account because she’d destroyed her birth certificate to hide the evidence she was illegitimate, and so Juan couldn’t satisfactorily prove to the Swiss that she’d ever existed. I have no idea if it’s true, but I love the idea that that happened.

The whole lobotomizing her thing, though, is skeezy beyond belief: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150710-the-gruesome-untold-story-of-eva-perons-lobotomy

Kreator
Kreator
5 years ago

Let’s see if I can meme better than this…

http://s14.postimg.org/5cbvd2ti9/roulette_meme.jpg

PS: I’m from Argentina as well. Hi there! I suck at politics though, so I’m not useful to discuss them.

Luzbelitx - from my phone
Luzbelitx - from my phone
5 years ago

@Alan

I didn’t know about Sandi, but I’ll definitely do my research. I value all experiences because no matter their success, there’s a lot to learn from practice.

The WEP sounds like something to keep an eye on!

I could peronism for ever, but it’s almost midnight and I’m on antibiotics, so I should say goodnight.

As for the inspiration, it takes two to tango, as we say.

BritterSweet
5 years ago

I’ve used the Russian Roulette metaphor before to explain Shrodinger’s Rapist. So I thought it was yet another attempt by MRAs to use feminist words and turn them around without actually understanding them.

Though I could also see how some people (especially women) may say they’re not feminists even though they share very feminist views.

Woman: I’m not a feminist.
MRA: Okay. So…dumb c***s be gettin raped amirite? Har har!
Woman: What?! That’s a disgusting thing to say.
MRA: Aaaah!! Feminist! I’ve been deceived!

Yutolia
Yutolia
5 years ago

Maybe it’s: “be carefull about abusing/raping your girlfriend because even though she says she’s not a feminist, she still might report you”.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Kreator – bravo!

I’m not sure whether the original meme is using “not real feminist” in the sense of feminists who’ve said extreme or discriminatory things, or just people who claim to be feminists but then say anti-feminist things (Summers who got involved in GamerGate, say). Je ne sais pas!

Oh, and speaking of the Roosh thing (which I was a few hours ago), they ARE having a protest regardless of where his talk is at Norman Bethune square – see https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-canada-deny-roosh-v-entry-to-canada-for-the-purposes-of-disseminating-hate/u/11657260?tk=uA0_LPzCDu9yOCzeNrMGaLl1gXZWKgTZqly-xm_QRrM&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email

(That’s on Saturday at noon and I know that area, so I’m planning to go.)

Luzbelitx - from my phone
Luzbelitx - from my phone
5 years ago

@Rabid Rabbit

You bring up all valid points.

I agree with the dynamics you mention, at least in a general way. They were definitely one political unit, and Peron lost an important partner apart from a loved one.

Peron’s last years are a bit more complicated, and the points of view are many and opposing, but yours is a very valid one.

The only one I haven’t heard about was the Swiss bank account story, although the certificate part is true, but I’m pretty sure a new one was forged (therefore the debate on her hometown, Junin or Los Toldos). I can believe something like that happened, though.

@Kreator

Hey there! I hope I’m not too annoying, I’m a bit too into politics hehe

Also, you’re memeing right!!

ljy2008
5 years ago

He’s just sending you a message to say “don’t bother contacting me, because I’ve blocked you! See how hard core I am? Don’t mess with me Futrelle!”.

The other possibility of course is that he is shit scared of you knocking on his ‘cyber door’ and challenging him to a meeting of minds, so he’s blocked you to avoid the embarrassment.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago
Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Aunt Edna

Wow, and he had to close with ‘I don’t have time for political correctness ‘

Then if so, mister trump, can you gtfo of politics?

The fact that the crowd cheered for him made me sad :(. At least he’s getting called out.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

Moocow, if you are sad now, then don’t read the comments under the DM article. It’s like The Twilight Zone.

It appears that the unthinkable may not be so anymore and that there is a very real possibility of Trump becoming a GOP candidate after all. One hopes not a president, surely — but I don’t think we can overestimate the, er, irrational enthusiasm of the wrong-wing American voters.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

I FUCKING WARNED ALL OF YOU GUYS ABOUT TRUMP.

BUT IT HAD TO GET THIS FAR UNTIL YOU ALL WORRIED

I AM THE MOTHERFUCKING CASSANDRA RIGHT NOW.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

I was watching a Larry Wilmore clip where some conservative voters literally said they wouldn’t ever forgive Chris Christie ever because he hugged Obama.

No, seriously. Christie hugged Obama after a hurricane hit his state and Obama came to offer support.

http://media.mtvnservices.com/embed/mgid:arc:video:comedycentral.com:2ef233bf-91d9-4701-8bb4-3ea53f9fe678The Nightly ShowGet More: The Nightly Show Full Episodes,The Nightly Show on Facebook,The Nightly Show Video Archive

*crosses fingers and hopes embed works*

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Goddamnit.

Well, if you click the first bit, it should take you to the clip. It happens after Larry says goodbye to Jon Stewart.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
5 years ago

@Luzbelitx

To be fair, I also like Juan Luis Borges response over renaming La Plata after Eva. Namely, “Come on, let’s compromise. We can call it La Pluta”.

It is a horrible misogynistic joke. It is also hilarious. I’m afraid my taste for terrible wordplay overwhelms my feminism sometimes.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lux

Been reading up on “the wizard”. You weren’t wrong about Argentine politics being weird.

UK politics is so dull by comparison. Our politicians hardly ever engage in voodoo rituals.

Mind you, I suspect there’s a few of our party leaders fantasise about having snipers under the stage at party conferences. It would certainly make them easier to stage manage.

WickedWitchOfWhatever
WickedWitchOfWhatever
5 years ago

I think the incomprehensibility of this meme is what happens when someone really, really wants to use an image of a pretty woman being threatened with violence and then has to retrofit some political message on it.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

@Rabid Rabbit

Ok, that did make me giggle, and I too have a weakness for puns *hangs head in shame*

I used to like Borges a lot when I was younger, he is indeed an impeccable writer, but as I grew up I realized he wasn’t only a misogynist but also horribly racist (and classist, but that’s sort of a given).

He belonged, by heritage and by ideology, to the elites who believe native americans, and anyone poor for that matter, should do all the work and us descendant from Europeans should get all the benefits.

He even refers to native people as “monsters” in one of his stories. One of his main character heroes is a detective from Norway or Finland (who lives in Buenos Aires, but still).

It’s hard to be a white supremacist when you’re not exactly white among whites(most of us are descendant form Spanish and Italians, mostly the southern/brownish kinds), but Borges got as close as possible and that’s just nu-huh for me….

@Alan

To be fair, I’m not entirely sure it was a voodoo ritual 😛

But I definitely get your point.

To add in to the weird, Lopez Rega’s borthday is October 17, same date of the Peronist Revolution in 1945 (not the sme year, though).

And there’s also people who claim Eva herself was Native American, based on the theory that she was from Los Toldos, a community made of survivors from different Native American peoples.

I guess we simply weren’t meant to be regular folks *sigh*

Why can’t we just dream of snipers under the stage?

Ok, that didn’t sound any better 😛

Kreator
Kreator
5 years ago

Oh, my mother hates Borges, she calls him an “oligarch geezer”. Me, I find his constant references to labyrinths a bit tiring, but I can’t deny that he was a great writer despite his prejudices. Stuff like the Library of Babel are very interesting concepts.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

Well, he was definitely a brilliant mind, and had a clear passion for knowledge. That’s what I liked about him in the first place. I’m a fan of labyrinths myself so that helped too.

(This reminds me of an episode from Friends in which Ross recalls a comic he wrote as a child about “Science Boy”, whose power was “a superhuman thirst for knowledge”).

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Kreator, that was great. Much better than the OP. I’m saving that for future use, if you don’t mind…

I’m not an expert on Argentine politics, but I’ve been following along on this one from the sidelines, and if I had to sum up what I’ve seen in a nutshell, I’d have to say it’s quite the circus, and the monkeys don’t disappoint. El Brujo, I guess, could in this case best be translated as The Necromancer, since it was necromancy, not voodoo, that he tried his hand at.

But wow, Evita is one onion that just keeps right on peeling. Possible indigenous origins? A lobotomy? I can well believe all of it. Her impoverished origins (indigenous or not) would help to explain why she became more radical as her cancer progressed — she seemed to want to urge her fellow poor folk to get rid of their oppressors before it was too late. Maybe she regretted all the sucking-up she had to do to get out of the mire herself? I wouldn’t be surprised. At any rate, Borges* was a shit for calling her a puta — if she was prostituted, best blame the men who expected sex in return for acting roles. You can’t have a whore without johns, after all…

And yeah, how about that lobotomy. They were handing those out like candy at precisely the time Evita is likely to have had one forced upon her. And consent was often neither sought nor given. I translated some German documents for a friend’s husband not long ago, and found that the doctor who had lobotomized the man’s mother was not trained in surgery of any kind, much less neurosurgery. His specialty, when he received his doctorate at Heidelberg, was skin diseases. I was shaking my head in amazement when I e-mailed back the translations to the client, and expressed as much to him. That poor woman…how DID she survive? And what kind of desperados think an induced state of catatonia, brought about by doctors who are not even trained surgeons, is preferable to organic madness?

*I have a hardcover book of Borges’ stories, but I’ve barely cracked it. He’s very polished, but brrrrrr. Eduardo Galeano is less refined, but more human. It’s funny: they both come from the same region, with the same ferments, but Galeano isn’t an elitist even though he is undeniably an intellectual. Uruguayans seem to have recovered better from whatever bug it is that’s raging on the other side of the Río de la Plata.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lux, Kreator,Binary

You might find this interesting if you can. Seems now definite that Eva was lobotomised.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150710-the-gruesome-untold-story-of-eva-perons-lobotomy

I could make the point that she joins the ranks of Rosemary Kennedy, Frances Farmer and a worryingly large number of women lobotomised at men’s request, or even that women were/are disproportionately lobotomised compared to men, but then I’d just sound like one of those feminists one reads about.

libarbarian
libarbarian
5 years ago

I think it’s a variant of the “Don’t Date SJWs” thing. I don’t think it has to do with inter-feminist debates or evaluation of who is a “real” feminist in feminist circles at all. I think it’s directed at guys who are dating self-described “feminists”.

Basically saying “Dating Feminists is like Russian Roulette and don’t fool yourself by saying ‘Well, my GF my call herself a feminist but she isn’t a real feminist so I don’t have to worry about her cuckolding me and then taking half my stuff in a divorce if I marry her’ because the consequences of being wrong are disastrous”.

Just more paranoid nonsense.

Orion
5 years ago

I’m fairly certain this meme is about dating. See, MRAs know, deep in their souls, that real feminists are cackling menocidal terrorists. Also, many young MRAs and redpillers are straight men who still do want to date women. A good number of them are good enough at covering their hatred, and/or moderate enough and/or charismatic enough to successfully date women their age, who may not yet know how to spot a misogynist or how unpleasant it can be to associate with them.

I have no demographic data on the red pill, but my perception is that the younger part of their base skews techy, college-educated, and non-religious. (I know there’s lots of christian conservatives in the manosphere but I tend to assume they are older) Thus, they gravitate to urban environments and meet women largely through school or through online communities, including the gaming they so jealously defend.

Urban, irreligious, geeky women are very likely to identify as feminist. If young red pill men want to date — and they do — then they’re probably going to date a feminist, likely one who thinks in terms of big political issues, but not yet in terms of microaggression. Dating a feminist is hard to justify to the red pill crowd. Their defense is to point out that their girlfriends haven’t tried to menocide them yet, so the girlfriends are probably not real feminists. The meme was likely created either by a bitter old man warning young men not to have any fun, or perhaps by a still-youngish man who discovered that eventually young women with poor bullshit-sense grow up into less-young women with keen bullshit-sense, and then break up with their red pill boyfriends.

Either way, the message is: you may think that [your girlfriend] isn’t a real snake-monster feminist, but she could bare her fangs at any time.