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creepy empathy deficit misogyny rape rape culture

Larry Wilmore’s brilliant takedown: “Bill Cosby Says the Darndest Things.”

From Comedy Central’s Nightly Show With Larry Wilmore: A brilliant takedown of Cosby’s creepy evasions and excuses, featuring newly revealed details from that 2005 deposition. Wilmore also plays clips from an early Cosby comedy album and from the Cosby Show much later in his career in which Cosby jokes about … drugging women for sex.

Evidently, as Wilmore points out, Cosby thought that his hobby of repeatedly drugging and raping women was hilarious.

And here’s Nightly Show writer Holly Walker delivering her verdict on Cosby, rap style. Why rap? Because Cosby hates rap music. 

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Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Oh, and Louis CK, too. He’s also recently been outed as a rapey creep.

comment image

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

@freemage: Didn’t see your post before posting.

If true, ew.

Binjabreel
5 years ago

So there’s a couple stories of him inappropriately whipping his dick out in front of women, but the damning one
I’d heard boils down to him inviting a couple female comedians to his room, at some point asking if he could whip it out and jerk off, them thinking he was joking, them being horrified and trying to leave, and him standing in the doorway till he was done. It has exactly the right flavor of pathetic that I have a hard time not believing that at least most of it is true.

But for what it’s worth, apparently Fred Rodgers is seriously one of the most genuinely nice guys to ever grace this green Earth. Like, I remember being blown away when I found out he was a minister, because as a kid I always got turned off when i felt like I was being preached to, but I never got that feeling watching his show.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Sunny, sorry I didn’t include you along with Falconer when offering my own response, I did read your comment, but was just responding to the more recent poster’s one.

Re MRAs defending Saville, I do recall Judgybitch calling Saville’s victims a bunch of whores. Can always rely on JB to be measured and classy.

Re Spanish Fly, I’m being pedantic here, but it isn’t a rape drug, even though Cosby was joking about it as if it was. It causes prolonged, involuntary erections in men, followed by fatal poisoning, not really an aphrodisiac either and useless at getting women aroused or incapacitated.

Philip Banks did get a bit ‘man of the house’ but I always got the vibe Vivian was the one with the final say. The only thing that annoyed me about The Fresh Prince was little Ashley going on to model for Playboy, and the way the show fawned all over Hugh Heffner when he appeared as himself. All through the series she is this smart girl with a strong sense of independence, yet ultimately opts for a career which values her only for her looks.

Binjabreel
5 years ago

Lol, had to tend to the kid and got multi-Ninja’d!

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

Ninja’d by Lady Mondegreen over the Spanish Fly.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

I have it on good authority (friends in the biz) that it’s Louis CK. I’ve heard stories about his propensity for whipping it out and jerking off in front of women at inappropriate times (i.e. dinner table, bar, etc.).

That Gawker article.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/blow_it_up_ugly_americans.gif

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

Some links to Mr Rogers as brain bleach:

https://youtu.be/fKy7ljRr0AA

https://youtu.be/Upm9LnuCBUM

And in case you haven’t seen these:

https://youtu.be/OFzXaFbxDcM

https://youtu.be/CdAZ79AhcfY

mockingbird
mockingbird
5 years ago

Those are also for our global posters who may not know who Mr Rogers was.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Robjec,
I’d agree with you. The crucial difference is whether or not the joke is at the expense of rapists and rape culture or if it’s at the expense of victims and upholds rape culture.

Lindy West talks about the issue well. I have to get back to work, but I can dig out a link later if you want.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

At least we have Mr. Rodgers, the shining beacon in the dark that is famous male TV personalities.

Mr. Rodgers was a good man, a caring man, a gentleman. Why can’t more men be like him?

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
5 years ago

@Rabjec

As I understand it, there are basically two kinds of jokes about rape: 1) the joke that laughs at the absurdity of the attitudes surrounding rape and rape culture, i.e. the kind that mocks not only rapists and rape apologists, but also the whole misogynistic culture that shields and protects rapists, and 2) the kind that ignores the victim and their pain or even makes them the butt of the joke; which treats rape as inconsequential, harmless, “all in good fun”, “boys will be boys” etc.; i.e. the kind of joke that reinforces harmful beliefs about rape and shields rapists.

The first kind, which matches your experience with the comedian, challenges the status quo; it punches up. It is satirical humor that targets the prevailing norms and power structures. I think of it more as joking about rape culture rather than making “rape jokes.” When using the phrase “rape joke” in a discussion, most people tend to think of the second type, and for good reason: It’s disgustingly common.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
5 years ago

Aaand ninja’d. Shoot.

freemage
5 years ago

The line, “You can’t make rape jokes” should always be taken very strictly, grammatically. It doesn’t mean, “You may not make rape jokes,”–that is, that rape jokes are not allowed. Rather, it means that ‘you’ (the comedian being addressed) are incapable of making rape jokes and have them be funny.

There is a truth that comedy draws some of its best laughs from our pain. But the greater the tragedy, the more skilled one must be to actually successfully transform it into humor. Rape jokes, because of the trauma of such a violation, are the equivalent of juggling a set of running chainsaws, six rotten eggs and a flaming baton. It’s impressive when done right, but when done wrong, it creates a huge mess and very likely hurts someone nearby. And people who attempt it without the necessary skill are suffering from an inflated sense of their own talent, Tosh. They are very clearly punching above their weight class, and need to get told properly that they just aren’t that talented.

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
5 years ago

Oh, and Louis CK, too. He’s also recently been outed as a rapey creep.

It will only take only 30 or 40 years for it to be acknowledged and he will still be defended.

Re: Cosby – “30 Rock” did a rapey-Cosby joke quite a while ago.

katz
katz
5 years ago

Rabjec: I think you’re right, but the trouble is even if a rape joke is about how rape is bad, it could still be traumatic to actual survivors present.

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Ah OK I just wanted to share my point a view and am glad that other people share it too. And I understand it can still be harmful to some people, but it also helps some people so it’s a difficult point to generalize.
And yes wwtreehugger I think that would be a cool read. Thanks 🙂

Leela
Leela
5 years ago

Re: Louis CK

Anyone watch his show? I remember being distinctly disappointed when he did an episode where he tried to rape Pam. And people came out defending it saying that, you know, it was just showing a man awkward at sex and stuff. But it was him chasing her around and blocking her exit and the story about him whipping it out kind of reminded me of the episode.
Anyway, he’s a funny guy. And I agree with a lot that he says, but he is definitely problematic (The Tosh.0 thing springs to mind). Ultimately he is just a comedian (one that has held some sway with the neckbeards in showing some rape culture, so there’s that).

If I ever find out John Oliver is a terrible person though, I’m not long for this world.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Miss Andry,

so, did Esmay leave with AVFM’s blessing, or did he stage a big flounce?

Either way I think it’s worthy of a WHTM post.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Leela,
Agreed. I pretty much checked out after that, although I think I saw a few more episodes. Remember the early episode, maybe season 2, when Melissa Leo’s character tried to rape him? At the time I thought it was radical in a good way humor. Both pointing out that men can be victims too and highlighting how rape is to a woman by flipping the typical gender dynamics and putting the male audience in the perspective of an assault victim, as the show is very much in Louis’ point of view.

But in light of the Pam episode and revelations of his creepiness, I guess it was just another rape lol joke.

Miss Andry
5 years ago

@sn0rkmaiden

According to Dean Esmay the parting was amicable — I don’t know for a fact if it was or not, I can only judge by Esmay’s own words. On Twitter he wrote that he wished “everybody there [at A Voice for Men] the best.” Using TwitLonger he wrote:

I should have realized I couldn’t just tweet that I’d resigned and not have people ask questions. So let’s hope this answers them: Unless there is some serious issue of life and limb that requires grand drama, it’s never a good idea to air philosophical and personal conflicts publicly.

I have quit A Voice for Men because it was time to move on. That is all. I am on speaking terms with everybody. I am taking some time off, looking after my long-neglected health, and relaxing with family and friends. That will include my online friends. I will also continue to be a shit-stirrer, but now, as a civilian. At least until I find my next home. 🙂

And of course he does this during my blogging break. Douche.

Also, WTF does he mean by “civilian”? I didn’t realize that being a member of the Keyboard Warriors, 1st Misandry Division qualified as service.

Fred_the_Dog
5 years ago

I have to admit that for many years (like, between 12 and 20), I found Mr. Rogers to be extraordinarily boring. But that’s probably the result of first seeing him as a preteen. However, having said that, he seemed to be an entirely genuine human who lived according to what he believed as best he could

Leela
Leela
5 years ago

-weirwoodtreehugger
I don’t remember that episode. IDK, I think it’s always possible for people to see problems with others, but not in themselves. Or see it in themselves and not want to change.

I still am not over Gary Oldman’s racism. >:(

katz
katz
5 years ago

According to Dean Esmay the parting was amicable — I don’t know for a fact if it was or not, I can only judge by Esmay’s own words.

Knowing the Manosphere, if it wasn’t, we’d hear about it.

benfromcanada
5 years ago

I now have to make sure to watch the Nightly Show. Thanks for eating more of my time, jerk!

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Miss Andry,

‘Unless there is some serious issue of life and limb that requires grand drama, it’s never a good idea to air philosophical and personal conflicts publicly.’

Ooh, that bodes a future bust up. He’s trying to be professional about it, but he let that slip.

I wonder what his future activism will consist of? Possibly trashing feminists on Twitter?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Here’s Lindy West on rape jokes. http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke

And an extra rape joke (actually sketch) that works very well. Because the post is pretty old now.
https://youtu.be/1sq4gVZ4cBc

Sorry if I’ve posted this clip before. I think maybe I did. But it’s very relevant to the thread.

Rabukurafuto
Rabukurafuto
5 years ago

There is a truth that comedy draws some of its best laughs from our pain. But the greater the tragedy, the more skilled one must be to actually successfully transform it into humor. Rape jokes, because of the trauma of such a violation, are the equivalent of juggling a set of running chainsaws, six rotten eggs and a flaming baton. It’s impressive when done right, but when done wrong, it creates a huge mess and very likely hurts someone nearby. And people who attempt it without the necessary skill are suffering from an inflated sense of their own talent, Tosh. They are very clearly punching above their weight class, and need to get told properly that they just aren’t that talented.

Yes. Yes! Yes! That is the best analogy for telling a rape joke I have ever heard. This deserves to go into a great big book of useful quotes.

AltoFronto
AltoFronto
5 years ago

Ugh. I’m so sickened by the Louis CK allegations. And I’m prepared to believe them even before they reach the stage of being substantiated beyond anonymous sources, because it seems more than one individual has given a similar account of things.

My disgust is amplified, not just because his actions were creepy and disgusting and bad, but by the fact that this has apparently been common knowledge about him amongst comedians for a long time. And nobody has felt able to risk their necks to even warn others about him.

It’s even more horrible because I thought Louis CK was actually against rape culture, and acted as an ally during his stand-up. Now I worry that his bit about men being the number one threat to women was more to do with projecting his own MO, than making a statement about sexism.

And you just KNOW that he and everyone else will explain how he’s not a bad guy really, because ” all he did” was jerk off in front of people whilst they were forced to watch… and he’s said some progressive / funny stuff, so his career is worth saving, all while he gets away with, and possibly escalates his creepy behaviour.

Jesus, I hope that it doesn’t all happen like that, like how every high-profile sexual assault accusation plays out, like a fucking tape on repeat. But I have to assume that the rumours are true unless there is strong evidence that Louis CK isn’t doing this creepy shit, because it wouldn’t be the first fucking time a famous guy has turned out to be a perv, as evidenced by this very thread.

I will never give the benefit of the doubt to powerful men.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago
Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

I’m pretty happy the comics I really like (John Stewart show members and colbert) all seem like goof people in real life.

Also Mr Rogers was apparently the nicest guy ever in real life, according to everyone who ever met him. So there’s still that ray of light 🙂

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

“Mr. Rodgers was a good man, a caring man, a gentleman. Why can’t more men be like him?”

Mostly because through childhood and adolescence, most boys who show signs of Rogersness are methodically and mercilessly teased and bullied and called “sissy” and “pussy” and “wussy” etc., mostly but not always by other boys. My eighth-grade social; studies teacher spent half a class period explaining to the class what the name “Caspar Milquetoast” meant and how I was the living embodiment of that name. On the other hand, when a boy showed the proper level of aggression people would say approvingly, “He’s all boy.” (Presumably the rest of us were girlie-boys training to be girlie-men — or as they say now manginas.)
My view of the MRA/MGTOW crowd is that they are the great successes of traditional social conditioning. They have conquered their girlie emotions to the extent that they are no longer capable of feeling love, so they look at relationships as a purely economic arrangement, where women exchange sex and housework for your money — and obviously, the less of your own money you have to spend on her, the better deal it is. They want all the benefits of the traditional marriage, but it’s a good thing if the woman earns her own money, as long as she doesn’t earn more than you or take the job you thought you should have.

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
5 years ago

re: Other TV Dad’s:

In addition to Mr. Rogers (and I’m glad that other’s have substantiated that he seemed a good person): Everything I’ve ever heard and read about James Avery (Uncle Phil on Fresh Prince) and John Goodman (Dan Connor on Roseanne) suggest that they are, at a minimum, decent guys (sadly, neither Mr. Rogers nor James Avery are with us anymore). While you can’t know everything what I’ve read is nice to hear. I should hope to be remembered as nicely (as Rogers or Avery). Sadly, the way things are going, I expect to end up wrong feeling terrible, but I go by what I know at the time…

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
5 years ago

<<They have conquered their girlie emotions to the extent that they are no longer capable of feeling love, so they look at relationships as a purely economic arrangement, where women exchange sex and housework for your money — and obviously, the less of your own money you have to spend on her, the better deal it is.<<

Not to put too fine a point on it but: This is what is truly screwed up about it. During the one relationship I had that was truly serious it wasn't the sex that made life worthwhile. Even though it didn't work out it was the feelings that made the relationships worthwhile. As much as a I hate my life? To imagine it without love? Damn…

I always hope that toxicness among people dies out, but that hope will always be in vein…

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Hi all, just popped in to give a shoutout to Falconer, Snorkmaiden, Misha, Indifferentsky, Maistrechat, Sarah and Binabreel for engaging with me. I feel very much included now 🙂 I think it’s just human nature to engage more with people who are more familiar, so I will try to pipe up a little more often so I become a little more familiar. I’ve been reading this blog and comment section for years but I usually come to threads late and typically others have said what I was thinking much more articulately than I would have. I typically leave feeling enlightened as well as entertained. That is all, carry on 🙂

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Robjec,

I’m pretty happy the comics I really like (John Stewart show members and colbert) all seem like goof people in real life.

Best typo ever! Or cleverest wordplay…

If John Stewart, Colbert, or Mark Ruffalo ever turn out to be awful people, I will be made of sad.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Hi Sunny and This Handle is a Test!

This Handle is a Test, can I call you THis a T? If that’s objectionable, I’ll behave and copy pasta your nym.

nightmarelyre
5 years ago

Well, Colbert and Stewart aren’t on the same awful levels of Cosby or anything, but they have some… questionable moments for sure I am sad to say. This blog documents it http://yourmomentofhate.tumblr.com/

contrapangloss
5 years ago

…drat.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

Never liked his comedy, BTW, nor understood what others liked about it / him. I’ve always found him creepy and repulsive — and decidedly not funny.

Bill Cosby was actually very, very, funny when he put his mind to it when he was young. On racism he was great. The lighter side of black activism for all of us who lived through the Civil Rights era. He presented as the ordinary guy who just happened to be black.*

The best ever was a flipside on an LP, must have been before 69 because my husband already had the record when we got married that year. A tremendously long monologue about a high powered fast car … which, after multiple excursions, on topics from doorbells to anything else you might think of, finished up with a punchline about George Wallace. Race hadn’t been mentioned for the whole piece. Superb.

The other side was a selection of live recordings of stand up. Brilliant about having babies, little kids, school, playing sport for school. There might well have been dodgy stuff on that one but I haven’t heard it for over 40 years and I don’t remember any.

* Unfortunately, he was representative of lots of ordinary guys of the time, of any and all colours.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

As for LouisCK.

Shit, poop, fuck, damn.

Falconer
5 years ago

This Handle is a Test! Hi! Scroll up and click on the candle for your welcome package.

Even though it didn’t work out it was the feelings that made the relationships worthwhile.

Yeah, the feelings go on a lot longer than any particular sex act, and engage with a lot more than just other physical contact. Any shared experience can help them grow.

Falconer
5 years ago

@nightmarelyre: I’ve heard that Jon Stewart doesn’t think women can be funny. (He always seems to have just one woman correspondent. Tokenism?) I hadn’t heard anything about Colbert. I’ll check out your link when I’m feeling better mentally.

ethfiel
5 years ago

Wonder what we hear about a Hugh Laurie one day. He thinks killing your ex girlfriend is cause for laughter (sorry for my bad English!)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

On a related note, the statute of limitations in relation to some of the allegations against Julian Assange comes into play shorty. The rape allegations however don’t expire until 2020.

I’m willing to lay a lot of money that, if he’s still holed up at that time, he’ll suddenly come to the conclusion that maybe the threat of extradition to the US isn’t quite the risk it originally seemed.

Falconer
5 years ago

Wonder what we hear about a Hugh Laurie one day. He thinks killing your ex girlfriend is cause for laughter (sorry for my bad English!)

That’s concerning. Do you have a handy link? Was it just part of a routine?

ethfiel
5 years ago

Maybe I should have be more clear: House (Hugh L.) tries to kill his ex girlfriend in a tv show. And its meant as a joke, because it´s a comedy show. So Bill Cosby jokes about rape and actually rapes. But even if those creeps don`t act in real life like what they present us as jokes, thinking that this is funny is gruesome enough. So, I didn´t say Hugh Laurie tried to kill his girlfriend. Its just horrible that jokes like that lead to success and huge media attention.

marinerachel
marinerachel
5 years ago

Uhg, I love a lot of Louis C.K.’s comedy. What a disappointment.

Orion
5 years ago

Why do you assume that the actor approves of the writing for his character? He didn’t write it.