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a voice for men Dean Esmay drama drama kings MRA paul elam

Dean Esmay quits A Voice for Men in what he seems to kind of want us to think is an amicable split

Paddle paddle paddle
Paddle paddle paddle

In the wee hours of the morning, this morning, there was a great disturbance on the Internet, as if millions of shitposters suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. For about ten seconds.

What had happened? This:

https://twitter.com/deanesmay/status/623796900903432192

Huh. That’s interesting.

But I’m not exactly stunned to hear that another Men’s Rightser has had what looks like a big falling out with the rather temperamental Paul Elam. Or perhaps that Elam has had a falling out with him?

Oh, sorry, I’m being told that Esmay is quitting “to look after his health” and to “take his activism in a different direction.”

That’s A Voice for Men’s explanation, anyway.

Esmay own explanation, which he posted in a Twitlonger shortly after his announcement, also mentions the health thing:

I am taking some time off, looking after my long-neglected health, and relaxing with family and friends.

But he also notes, a little enigmatically,

Unless there is some serious issue of life and limb that requires grand drama, it’s never a good idea to air philosophical and personal conflicts publicly.

I have quit A Voice for Men because it was time to move on. That is all. I am on speaking terms with everybody.

It seems as though Esmay is, for once, trying to be diplomatic. But he doesn’t seem very good at it. “On speaking terms” is not exactly what you’d call a ringing endorsement of the Cult of Elam, which had utterly consumed Esmay’s life for a number of years.

Esmay promises that

I will also continue to be a shit-stirrer, but now, as a civilian. At least until I find my next home. 🙂

So with that, I would like to introduce We Hunted the Mammoth’s new Chief Operating Officer, Dean Esmay!

Just kidding. We Hunted the Mammoth’s chief operating officer is the one on the right here:

My pussy supply.
Smooth Operating Officer.

I look forward to the inevitable meltdown of the facade of amicability between Esmay and his former boss.

Please read the newly revised COMMENTS POLICY before commenting.

 

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Dodom
Dodom
5 years ago

Teaching kids about consent and boundaries would be a great start, even with things that aren’t assault, things could use some improvement:
I have a relative who, when he was a boy, went to me to confide because he didn’t trust his mother with his concerns.
When he grew old enough to start discovering sex, he had the basic safe sex education, but nothing on “it’s ok to say no”. Sure, he was happy to have a girlfriend to do french kissing and mutual groping with, but she had seen oral sex in movies and wanted to do that with him. He thought it looked disgusting, but he didn’t dare to say more than “another time”, he felt like he was failing somehow if he gave a definite no: a guy isn’t supposed to be reluctant to sex. Fortunately he went to me and I was able to confirm that it’s ok to say no.
But he could just have well not believed me, or still felt obligated to do it, and end up having an unpleasant experience that would make relationships and sex awkward for a long time, just because of the expectation for boys to always be up for sex.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@benfromcanada,

thanks for the link, that’s an interesting article. While I felt compassion for Tim, given that he does experience remorse and at no point did he try to lie his way out of it; it’s a shame the article didn’t also talk to Vicky, though I’d understand if she didn’t want to talk to them. People like Tim are the reason we need to have all these discussions about rape culture, because it’s people like that who can be reached.

On topic, I’m not sure this diplomacy will last, and I for one would like a front row seat when the slurs start flying.

@EJ, not sure if Janet Bloomfield is on her way out, I think they’d have to turn on her big time for that to happen. As it stands she’s basking in the attention while telling them exactly what they want to hear. I read her latest article on AVFM while trying to find out more about Esmay, she’s done another one of her ‘clever’ switcheroos where she takes a story and reverses the genders to show double standards, this time it’s one about open relationships. Trouble is she always shifts the facts around as well, which kind of undermines her argument.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

Everyone’s heard of ‘fight or flight’. How much easier would life be for the Vickys of the world if the common expression was ‘fight, flight or freeze’? Because those are the real standard instinctive responses to threat. And that ought to be the common understanding and language. After all, everybody nods sagely when people tell stories about a terrifying event and get to the “And I/he/we just froze … ” point.

I was just talking about this with a friend. My reaction to extreme fear is to freeze, and for a long time I hated myself for it. When I was in college, a peeping tom snuck into our dorm building (which were kept unlocked, GRRRR, small town college) and tried peeping in at me while I showered. I was lucky enough to glance up while his hand was arched over the curtain rod to pull it aside. I was able to hold the curtain shut, but then all I could do was freeze. I couldn’t do anything, I couldn’t say anything. I was petrified. And for years, I was so angry at myself for not yelling and raising a fuss.

Is it true? Is freezing normal? Because for a long time I’ve felt like a dope for doing it.

dudeinthewoods
dudeinthewoods
5 years ago

@Chie

It absolutely it is.

dudeinthewoods
dudeinthewoods
5 years ago

Oh for crying out loud, too early to work the keyboard.

@Chie

It’s absolutely normal.

benfromcanada
5 years ago

Yeah, I think Tim from that Cracked article would have benefited from a lesson in consent. If it was something people knew about more, rape culture wouldn’t be as much of a thing…and people like Esmay and others would lose all power.

I come at that Cracked article from a different perspective. My first serious girlfriend…wasn’t as sexual as I was, and I thought that constantly asking her if she wanted to do something was OK. I essentially coerced her into doing things of a sexual nature that she didn’t want to do…and I didn’t know that’s what I was doing until much later. It was part of the reason we broke up. She did enjoy some of it, but wasn’t ready at all…it was a lesson in power dynamics that I have taken to heart, but I’m always going to feel guilty about it. I take some solace in the fact that we didn’t go “all the way” as it were, being good super religious Christians…basically, I feel for Tim a bit, although even at my worst I would have known not to fondle a sleeping woman. But then, we get halfway decent sex ed here in Canada, even if it doesn’t get into enthusiastic consent.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

dodom

Teaching kids about consent and boundaries would be a great start, even with things that aren’t assault, things could use some improvement:

My view is that it should start before kindy. Families should not persist with hugging, tickling or kissing little ones who say no. Those same little ones should be taught that they can’t insist on physical contact with others who say no. Having that established as a lifelong basis for relating to all sorts of people makes the ideas we want to prevail in sexual relationships a whole lot easier to convey.

Chie Satonaka

Is it true? Is freezing normal? Because for a long time I’ve felt like a dope for doing it.

Absolutely. I don’t have the bookmark from my previous computer at the moment, but I distinctly recall a report from a trainer/educator that she’d explained to whole groups of cops (many of whom were “experienced” rape investigators) that the freeze response in rape victims was extremely common, probably the most common response, even in women who weren’t inclined to freeze in other situations. They were surprised.

(I’m not surprised at their surprise. Many of these people were also the sort who dismissed reports of sexual assault from women who didn’t display “appropriate” distress or other behavioural signals they presumed, but never re-examined, a rape victim should display.)

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ mildlymagnificent et al

The “Freeze” reaction is very common. Here’s a link to something about it (page 6) I wrote in the context of reacting to attacks.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B55TSEUu1Sn2czZUTzF0OGZRVWs/view?usp=sharing

titianblue
titianblue
5 years ago

Chie Satonaka

Is it true? Is freezing normal? Because for a long time I’ve felt like a dope for doing it.

Just remind yourself that we use the word “petrified” to mean “terrified” because so many of us turn to stone when frightened.

zyvlyn
zyvlyn
5 years ago

@benfromcanada

I had the same reaction when reading the article. I immediately thought of my high school and college girlfriends. I know for a fact that I never did anything sexual with them that they didn’t consent to, which, back when I was a dumb teenager/college student, seemed like all I had to do to make sure I wasn’t assaulting them.

Now I know different. Am I 100% sure that I didn’t verbally push, badger and cajole them to agreeing to do something they really didn’t want to do? No, I am not.

And I do feel guilty about it as I learn more about the damage that that kind of thing can do. It never once occurred to me that they may have only consented because they were worried about upsetting me or afraid that I might hurt them. I know that I would never hurt a woman, but did they?

None of their friends ever said anything to me that would indicate I took advantage of them and nothing like that ever came up during or after the breakups, but does that mean I never did it?

Honestly, I don’t know. It was a long time ago, and my memory’s not the best. But that’s the kind of stuff I worry about when I read a story like Tim and Vicky’s.

I suppose the whole point of this teal deer is that I agree with the fact that we as a society need to do a better job of teaching kids that not only does no mean no, but just because she doesn’t say no, doesn’t mean you can push her for a yes. It’s a lesson I learned thanks to people like you guys and I wish I had learned earlier.

katz
5 years ago

Mildly Magnificent:

I agree. When we make an unfeeling 3-year-old kiss his aunt, we’re establishing a principle that you don’t have come over your own body, and we can’t suddenly reverse that at puberty.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

I didn’t read the Cracked article because I’m afraid I might find it triggering, since all the conversation on it already has raised my pulse.

I’m glad Cracked keeps digging into these issues, even if not in a perfect way. It was a really unexpected support, and one that I value because I used to read it all the time and felt a connection with many of the authors.

I just wanted to say I too have messed up the consent part in the past, and to my deepest shame it was mostly with other women. I don’t recall pushing a man’s boundaries, even unknowingly at the time, but I still think it’s possible I did.

I recall on special time I insisted my way into this girl’s apartment. I was sincerely surprised she didn’t actually want to have sex, but only acknowledge it when she wouldn’t come close to me once inside her home.

I understand and deeply regret the harm I caused, and I cherish this experiences because they help me realize how badly I want to do better in order to never harm another person in that way ever again.

idledillettante
5 years ago

I hope Dean Esmay is okay and that his health problems aren’t serious.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

@Chie, yes, freezing is normal. In fact, it seems to be built into our nervous systems from before humans were even humans. I read an article on it lately that explains the science; let’s see if I can dig it up again…

Okay, this isn’t it, but it’s related:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201405/neuroscientists-discover-the-roots-fear-evoked-freezing

Lots of animals “freeze” when startled, or “play dead” if attacked. I’ve seen deer, coyotes and rabbits all do it. (I live out in the boonies, hence all the bunnies.) Some do it to wait for further information before they fight, flee or continue on their way; others do it as a blending-in strategy. (Wild bunnies are especially good at this; they look like just grey-brown rocks or small, round shadows if they hold still, willing you to un-see them.) And some do it because their brains won’t let them do anything else. Sometimes it works, and the predator loses interest. If the predator charges, though, they flee!

I know what you mean, too, about feeling embarrassed for the longest time about a freezing incident, and wishing you’d acted somehow differently. Once, a classmate started stroking my hand in the dark while we were in the gym watching a film. He was someone I had a crush on at the time, but that just creeped me out. I was 13 and utterly inexperienced…and clueless as to what I should do: Jerk my hand away? Hit him and say “stop it”? Fondle back? As it was, messy old brain chemistry took care of that dilemma by keeping me frozen and unresponsive until he cut it out. Like a deer in the headlights, only I was human and (literally) in the dark!

And yes, I was embarrassed and befuddled about this for the longest time, because I’ve never talked about it before now. Over 30 years! I only found out this year that “freezing” is common…and normal…and maybe even evolutionarily programmed. But now that there is (finally!) a good, scientific explanation for this phenomenon, no one who’s ever experienced it firsthand need ever feel embarrassed by their “cowardice” again. Because it’s NOT cowardice. It’s chemistry. And that puts the lie to all those cool-story bros who think they’d have been able to shoot it out barrel-to-barrel with, say, a gunman in a theatre. Without extensive situational training for precisely such an emergency, no, they would NOT. They’d probably freeze up, just like you or I.

I hope this helps!

freemage
5 years ago

That Cracked article really, really stresses the need for affirmative consent being the standard.

Also, I do think the school screwed up in handling the case. “Tim” did a good job of abiding by the spirit of the 50-foot restraining restrictions (sitting in a corner of the cafeteria with his back turned, so as to make sure he’d be less of a presence, for instance, and being ready to drop a class if they both took it). But a lot of guys won’t–they’ll follow the letter of the rule, only, and that only if they can’t get away with infringements.

Given his level of remorse, the school should have suspended (not expelled) him. It’s not about punishing him, but about giving Vicky a safe space. So, better to have Tim take a couple years off (he could come to summer sessions if Vicky wasn’t), during which he could work and build up a little tuition/book money, or go to community college and get some transferable credits built up.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

(Also, there really needs to be a Tumblr for tiny, adorable terrapins doing tiny, adorable things.)

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

When I was young, everyone knew the basic steps of the dance. Girls were required to pretend that the thought of sex never entered their minds. They were supposed to utter at least a pro forma “No” whenever a boy “got fresh” and hope that the boy could tell the difference between a real “No” and a pro forma “No”. Only a totally depraved slut would ever say a clear “Yes.” Premarital sex was always wrong (with a “wink wink” exception for engaged couples) but girls were allowed to be carried away with love for their boyfriends and utter unconvincing “No”s which the boy was expected to ignore. Only a totally depraved slut would ever say a clear “Yes,” but it was sort of OK if she gave in to a sufficiently high degree of emotion. Therefore a boy was expected to keep up the pressure and ignore “no”s that didn’t seem to be sufficiently convincing. Emotional blackmail (“You would if you really loved me”) and even outright lying (“I’ll respect you if you let me”) were acceptable. You don’t have to be much of a feminist to see what could go wrong with this. In fact, if I correctly understand what feminists mean by “rape culture,” what I have described is more or less IT.

Then came the sexual revolution which theoretically authorized women to have sex with anyone they wanted to. In reality, though, a woman could be (and obviously still can be) slut-shamed for being too enthusiastic about asserting sexual autonomy. In other words, we are in a transitional state between the traditional views about sex (publicly represented these days by Rick Santorum and his near total opposition to extramarital sex and even contraception) and a new vision of sexual communication which is still … well not, perhaps in its infancy, but maybe toddlerhood.

It seems to me that there are a few things that are necessary to get to where we want to go. First, regarding boys: Boys can have a very strong and confusing sex drive — which they don’t really understand or know how to deal with — for several years before they are emotionally ready for an intimate relationship, and we make approximately zero effort to help them deal with this. In fact, we haven’t managed to deal with the fact that masturbation has been traditionally condemned, or at least regarded as a taboo subject. Even on this blog people are often referred to as “wankers,” which is one of the words used to shame men with the idea that you only masturbate when you are an omega who can’t get laid. Boys and men are then implicitly encouraged to blame girls and women, rather than dysfunctional social norms, for their confusion and frustration. That’s a recipe for producing angry men, and frustrated women who get fed up with being blamed for men’s problems. We (as a society) have to stop explicitly and implicitly shaming boys for being virgins past a certain rather young age, and stop questioning the manliness of any man who hasn’t had enough sex with enough different partners.

Regarding girls, we need to teach them that they have an absolute right to say “No” to any sexual activity, but that they also have an absolute right to say “Yes” — provided that they are mature enough to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancy and STIs. (When my older daughter was in high school she was not sexually active, but she found out that one of her friends had started. She bought a package of condoms and gave them to her friend and told her, “Make your boyfriend use them.” In my view, my daughter was mature enough to be sexually active but her friend was probably not.) Until women and girls are not afraid of slut-shaming, they will often find it hard to say an enthusiastic “Yes” even when they want to, and because of that it will be difficult to convince men and boys that clear consent must be the rule. (Of course there are a certain percentage of men who will never hear anything less than a shouted “No'” — and perhaps not even that — but we’re talking here about men who have some degree of conscience.)

Of course it’s going to be difficult to overcome the habits of generations in order to raise both boys and girls to have fairly complete sexual autonomy (consistent with their age and maturity), and until that happens “enthusiastic consent” will be difficult to establish as the standard and we are going to have a systemic problem with non-consensual sex. “Rape culture” isn’t going to magically vanish without major changes in attitudes about the right to consent and the right to not consent.

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Benfromcanada
I so appreciate your response. My hubby (who I love dearly and would never intentionally do anything to hurt me) constantly badgers me for sex. Every night, and if I say no he asks again two minutes later. Most of the time I give up after a two or three times of him asking and just do it because it’s the fastest way to get him to leave me alone and get to sleep. He thinks this is funny, he honestly has no idea how much this impacts my enjoyment of intimacy even though I’ve told him numerous times 🙁

Mildly Magnificent
I totally agree on the teaching kids boundaries thing. One of my pet peeves is when parents of little ones force their kids to give people hugs, whether strangers or not all this does is teach the kiddos not to listen to or respect their own boundaries. I always stop this with a ‘no you don’t have to give me a hug at all, how bout a handshake or even just a little wave and smile’ most parents seem to get it pretty quick after that.

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

GOSJM (hope it’s ok that I shortened to acronym, you seem the pretty laid back sort) regarding empowering girls (and boys for that matter) to have bodily autonomy and say either yes or no depending on what they truly want:
I grew up in a very conservative fundamentalist community and I always wanted to say to my parents and other fungelicals; if you take a way a girls right to say yes you also take away her right to say no, but then again maybe they actually already know this.

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Contrapangloss
Re mucous secretions, I tried telling my hubby that the change in mucous was just a result of ovulation, he insisted on accompanying me to my annual well woman visit because he was just sure I had a yeast infection. The look on my docs face when he said this was priceless, she assured him it was in fact just ovulation, in fact her exact words were: “You have beautiful mucous” lol, not words I would ever expect to hear out of anyone’s mouth!

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Hi Sunny, from another sunny! (I think there’s a third Sunny around here somewhere). I like your posts so far. I’m sorry to hear about your husband’s behaviour, and I hope you find a way to get across to him that said behaviour is frankly unacceptable and childish. I can’t really suggest anything because I’m not married and tbh not even sexually active, but you have my well wishes.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

@Sunny: you can call me anything you want — I’m used to being called a psycho, a pedophile, and a lot of other things on other blogs. Attila Vinczer of AVfM said that “of all the people I have encountered throughout this world, you are the most horrid despicable evil freak of nature” I was actually flattered until I realized he thought I was David’s sock. In any case I try not to be a typical male jerk about things like names, though I don’t always succeed.

I believe that evangelicals think about sex all the time but they don’t actually THINK about it, because if they did they’d have to see how screwed-up their beliefs are. Fundamentalist religions are a house of cards, because they depend on certainty, so if they are wrong about anything they could be wrong about everything.
Mismatched sex drives are a common problem that often does not show up until a few years into a rerlationship — my wife and I had it — and it’s not always the husband who has the stronger drive. The most common solution is masturbation — perhaps with some spousely assistance — but most men will have trouble overcoming the socialized assumption that a married man who has to masturbate can’t be much of a man. The problem is, there may be a disguised problem there. One possibility — and I’m using this as an example not a diagnosis — is that because of the way men are socialized, they find it always acceptable to express a sexual need but difficult to express an emotional need. It is not likely, but not impossible, that he feels your reluctance to have sex means you’re slipping away from him. (As I say, this is just an example of the possibility that sex is a proxy for some other underlying issue.)

Falconer
5 years ago

(I think there’s a third Sunny around here somewhere).

I’ve counted sunnysombera, and Sunny, and Sunny Burn.

Falconer
5 years ago

My hubby (who I love dearly and would never intentionally do anything to hurt me) constantly badgers me for sex. Every night, and if I say no he asks again two minutes later. Most of the time I give up after a two or three times of him asking and just do it because it’s the fastest way to get him to leave me alone and get to sleep. He thinks this is funny, he honestly has no idea how much this impacts my enjoyment of intimacy even though I’ve told him numerous times :(</blockquote.

Oh jeez, that sounds horrible. I'm sorry, and I hope he learns better soon.

Robjec
Robjec
5 years ago

Freezing is completely normal and has to do with your hormone levels (sorry I can’t remember which ones specifically) not reaching a state where flight or fight is possible,or even canceling each other out.

On a side note self defense classes will help you deal with this, both through having you fight and get adjusted to it and it’s effects and through training you through repition, once you do something enough you can do it without thinking, sometimes before your nervous singles even tell your brain something is happening.

Misha
5 years ago

“You have beautiful mucous”

Ah ha ha, brilliant 🙂

On a serious note, sorry to hear about your husband’s behavior Sunny. I hope he does come to realise how this is affecting you, and that it’s not ok. My SO and I have never had problems sexually in that vein, but when we first started seeing each other it became apparent pretty quickly (well, I say that, it took me a good few months and a few good friends to accept it) that some of his behaviours and attitudes were hurtful to me and to the relationship. Behaviour change can take a long time, which sucks..

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

SunnySombrera
Hi! There can never be too much sunshine right? My handle relates to my tattoo, a sunflower. I love sunflowers; beautiful, useful, and really hard to kill! 🙂

GOSJM
I think the mismatched sex drives is definitely related as well as the need (and difficulty asking) for emotional intimacy, very good point. We generally work around it really well with masturbation (neither one of us is shy about that) and actually just going to bed earlier. I’m sorry Atilla and others have said terrible things about you, I hugely enjoy your perspective!

Falconer
It’s more super annoying than horrible fortunately, but it does impact our relationship. He really is just completely unaware of power dynamics as an earlier commenter alluded to, I think that’s kind of the definition of privilege, but not a deliberate thing by any means. I think it comes down to the fact that he’s treating me like he’d like to be treated; he would LOVE it if I propositioned him for sex numerous times throughout the day ;). I, on the other hand treat him like I’d like to be treated, if he seems tired I leave him alone and let him sleep! I wanted to let you know too that I really enjoy the pics of your baybeez that you post, mine are almost grown up so I find the little ones endlessly entertaining 🙂

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Misha
Thanks for the support! Relationships are quite complicated aren’t they, it definitely takes time and patience and lots and lots of talking. My SO (who identifies as a fiminist) always expresses that I’ve helped him think about things differently, but it’s a process!

berdache from a previous life

Anybody else endlessly checking the front page of WHTM to see when the inevitable explosion occurs? I suppose that Esmay may have had a spiritual awakening and is renouncing his previous ways. But don’t think that’s likely

Misha
5 years ago

@Sunny,

I know right? Mr Misha and I managed to come out the other side and things have been open, respectful and awesome for a long time, and I hope it’ll be the same for you. Totally with you on it being a process – I’ve graduated Mr M to ‘intersectionality’ now, and the slightly bemused look on his face is hilarious.

Not as much as when I try to explain the Men’s Rights Mess though ;). His favourite is Warren Farrel (“stop oppressing me with Dat Ass!”).

Misha
5 years ago

Anybody else endlessly checking the front page of WHTM to see when the inevitable explosion occurs?

Yup.

http://i.imgur.com/ZXLTT.gif

kylagb
kylagb
5 years ago

Paul Elam and Dean Esmay ( am I getting the name right?) seem to me to be the biggest losers and I am losing interest in their goings on as funny as it can be. When I find myself reading about them, I wonder why I am wasting my valuable time.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

Thanks Bina and others who explained the science behind freezing. This was revelatory for me, seriously.

Falconer
5 years ago

@sunnysombrera:

I wanted to let you know too that I really enjoy the pics of your baybeez that you post, mine are almost grown up so I find the little ones endlessly entertaining 🙂

Mine wanted to carry their lunch bags in to nursery school today. They grow up so fast!

Beloved took them into town yesterday, and took them to the Indian buffet for lunch. My boy said “Thank you!” to the woman on staff who brought them more water; my girl didn’t say anything, but grinned really huge and the woman said that was thanks enough.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

@Sunny: I enjoy being insulted by the MRA types — it indicates that I’m doing something right. I added “mangina” to my handle because they think it’s the worst insult in the world and it drives them up the wall to see a man using it proudly. (Same with “social justice” for the reactionaries.)

The problem with privilege is that it is very hard to see it when you have it unless somebody makes you aware of it. It wasn’t until recently that I recognized that I have Large Man Privilege — I can do “girlie” things and get away with it because I “look” like a Real Man.

Marriages were certainly easier — but not happier — when the sex role stereotypes were observed. Now that relationships are made up of not A Man and A Woman but two individuals trying how to figure out how to merge their lives for mutual benefit. Sometimes you wonder how anyone ever manages to make it work — but it’s rewarding when it does.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

Oh, regarding Dean Esmay — AVfM seems to be on a downward spiral that started about the time the GQ article came out. That may or may not be coincidence. The article made the MRAs look ridiculous, and men don’t like to be ridiculous (see Atwood’s Theorem). Also I think most men are seriously repelled by the ephebophile types and their to lower the age of consent to 12. In any case, it looks like the site no longer supplies enough money for Paulie’s needs, let alone anyone else’s. Money problems have destroyed many relationships, and hard financial magnify routine disgreements and lead to many breakups.

What about The Tooth?

I’ve never been sure if Bloomfield stays around because she makes money out of the clusterfuck, or whether it’s because she has just become attached to being allowed to play in the boys’ treehouse. If it’s the former (and the crossbow caper might point in that direction) I’d expect her to move on; if it’s the latter, she may well stay till the bitter end.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

*schadenfreudes a lot*

You know what they say, it’s not getting to the top that is hard, but staying there.

Or in this case, it’s not sailing from the port that is hard, but keeping afloat all the way.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

Hm, that should have been “getting on board” right? Is that a mixed metaphor or not quite…?

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

Also:

http://gifup.com/data/gifs/a/b/b/abb92a7391.gif

(I didn’t find any pop corn at home)

Misha
5 years ago

@Luzbeltiz, is s/he yours?

Misha
5 years ago

Oops, messed up your nym.

I can keyboard, honest.

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

GOSJM:
#notallteeth

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Off Topic but my kiddos used to have a pet bunny,Cinnamon Bunny. He was usually loose to wander the house, but learned really quickly that the refridgerator door opening meant cucumber slices. Whenever I couldn’t find him all I had to do was open the fridge door and he’d come running! Love the bunny gifs 🙂

Luzbelitx - from my phone
Luzbelitx - from my phone
5 years ago

@Misha

Sadly not, just adopted it from the internet 🙂

I used to have a bunny when I was a child, about the largest pet my parents would allow. I have 6 brothers and sisters so we never agreed to a name.

Later on I had a guinea pig called Toribio (one of the names Dory makes up in the Latin American translation of Finding Nemo).

Also, no problem about my nick, it’s deliberately obnoxious 😛

Luzbelitx - from my phone
Luzbelitx - from my phone
5 years ago

Ohhhhh the pop corn comment was meant as a joke, as in “lol this is the internet everything is here lol”

I’d post a bunny hiding gif, but I’m on my phone.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I don’t have a bunny hiding gif, but I found this quite amusing. My childhood cat was afraid of bunnies.
http://meowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/bunny-fights-back1.gif

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ GOSJM

It wasn’t until recently that I recognized that I have Large Man Privilege — I can do “girlie” things and get away with it because I “look” like a Real Man.

Yeah, I seem to get that. Because I tend to do traditionally macho things I seem to ‘get a pass’ when I do stuff like wonder off from ops to talk to animals etc. Until I started dipping into this site I hadn’t really noticed it but it’s probably always been in the background; like when a girlfriend said “You should wear pink shirts; you can get away with it”. I just hadn’t thought about it before.

It’s like you have to ‘prove’ your bloke credentials otherwise you’re ‘suspect’.

[Obligatory cute animal pic]

http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/Alan_Robertshaw/media/1507880_10152609183680936_4913613495300124596_n_zpszbggvcqx.jpg.html?filters%5Buser%5D=142504534&filters%5Brecent%5D=1&sort=1&o=1

epitome of incomprehensibility

I’m not sure what to believe. Perhaps Dean Esmay does have health problems and he’s quitting so he can focus on recovery. In that case, he made a good decision – while AVfM, I guess, provides some social-group comfort, it doesn’t seem like a very healthy place. At the same time, if there was a fight, it would be interesting to know why and what about…

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

I think that if more guys wore pink shirts, no one would have to worry about “getting away with it”. It would be just another color, one that suits some complexions better than others. Used to be that pink was considered a “strong” color for boys, because it’s diluted red.

And yeah, Deano’s short pants (what are they, zip-aways?) will be “missed” at those sad little AVFM demos, for sure. Ha, ha.

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

In addition to the odd coincidence that “Elam” is “Male” backwards, I’ve just noticed that “Dean Esmay” is an anagram of “A seedy man”.