The MGTOWs on the GYOW forum are thinking about tomorrow, putting on their futurist hats and pondering what will happen when, as they think is inevitable, more and more men “take the red pill” and walk away from women to a new life of happiness and wonder in which they devote their days to grousing endlessly about the women they’ve walked away from.
There’s a little talk of apocalypse, and a quick mention of sexbots, but these fellas seem most worried about, well, taxes. Because naturally, big daddy government — under the control of evil feminists and manginas — will try to take a kind of revenge against Men Going Their Own Way by instituting a dreadful Bachelor Tax.
Octavian explains just how it’s all going to go down. First, “marriage will go the way of the mechanical typewriter.” Next, the taxman cometh.
[F]airly soon the governments of the world will get hip to the fact that the dudes who dont have women in their lives have a LOT of disposable income . If 80% of the dudes in society are unattached beta males with no kids and no wife, fairly soon someone’s gonna realize taxing those guys will pay for a lot of Mr Thundercock’s progeny. …
We’ll be served with a summons to present proof of gay marriage ,alimony expenses paid ,a court order for child support or a documented relationship with a female….or pay a 40% income tax until we do.The reason?
“All men should share the burden to pay for child support, because patriarchy.Whats more important-a kid or your classic 1965 Mustang restoration?”
At first to sell the “Bachelor Tax” theyll apply it to females as a gesture of “equal burden”, but that’ll be a non-binding price ceiling. They’ll find a beta to happily vouch for being in a relationship so she can dodge the taxman …
Meanwhile , we single dudes will be looking over our shoulders every time we use an ATM.Next floor in the elevator of decline after that is polyamory …
Want to dodge the 40% bachelor tax, Mister Bluepill? Go find a bored fat girl who’s willing to vouch for you to the IRS that you’re a taken man.Of course nothing is free in this world……and you’ll have to prove to Miss Fatso you have the commitment required to join her roster.
As for the alpha’s, itll be a lonely club-moving between harems means pissing off a few women. Itll be the lowest social category of public society; staying out of jail & poverty will mean fake ID’s and quick feet.Plate spinning for males will require CIA tradecraft to avoid imprisonment.
Unlike a lot of Manosphere prognosticators, Octavian isn’t secretly (or not-so-secretly) hoping for a grand collapse of civilization.
I hope we dont suffer a Big Collapse ; the only thing worse then living in a matriarchy is wandering a post-industrial disaster filled with desperate bluepill males ,ruthless whores ,and easy accessed personal weapons with no law or order.You think guys are thirsty simps NOW….just wait until a society of feminized she-dudes have to figure out how to live without Amazon Prime and extended warranties.
Insidious_Sid, meanwhile, thinks that the Bachelor Tax will just be the beginning.
There will be a tax war. Men saying “fuck it” will continue to be taxed more and more to pay for more and more bastard alpha babies. Governments will continue to create more insidious ways of getting men to pay for children that are not theirs.
And, oh yeah, after all this? The apocalypse.
Economies will crumble – women are actually waiting for this. They believe in the lies of the feminist utopia, where the rich white men at the top of the towers fall to their deaths, the towers topple and gold spills into the streets for everyone to plunder. They have no real knowledge of what the real repercussions of this will be – they think it will be handsome alphas fucking all the women while betas toil in the mines and obediently pay their taxes.
That’s not what is going to happen. Before it’s all over they will say “Oh no, what have we done?!”
These cries will fall on deaf ears.
Oh, and there will be sexbot taxes as well. According to Abdenour,
Technologically, there will be sex robots. One question is, what legislation feminist, manginas and white knights will pass in the West to make land whales more competitive with robots. Maybe some sex robot 1,000% tax to provide income for single land whales and their thug spawn.
MGTOWs are pretty much the world’s worst science fiction authors.
@ Pandapool
Thanks for that.
@ Paradoxy (as I now know to call you:-) )
I need to check the comments policy to find out whether saying “Aww, you’re adorable!” is acceptable. I love your voice and your commentary (even though I had no idea what was going on)
You could announce “Hi, just to let you know we’ve suffered catastrophic engine failure” and I’d just sit back and ask if there were any more peanuts on board.
Thanks for replying SFHC and WWTH. I would like to try and think my way through some ideas here, so I hope you’ll be patient with me.
First, in response to SFHC, I know I said it wasn’t possible to be “ageist” against the young, but I’ll take that back, sort of. I would like to hear more about your experiences irt reactions to your perceived age vs. your actual age, but I do have a few questions or quibbles with this statement:
18 is actually outside the range where I posited men had “age privilege” which I suggested was probably something like 25 to 55.
I’m kind of boggling about how this could be a “common” example. I know sometimes men might make career shifts at 35 and have, possibly, the same level of experience doing the same exact job (which is, apparently, a no-college-required kind of job), but it seems kind of reasonable to me for a company to decide that whatever else the 35-year-old was doing in the last 15 years might be more valuable than whatever the 18-year-old was doing in high school.
In the event that the scenario really did occur and the two truly had the same level of experience, I can’t help thinking the company would be more likely to hire the ambitious 18-year-old than the 35-year-old “wastrel.”
On to what WWTH said. First, I really, really agree with you to a large extent, but I think, if we could try, for a second, to divorce sexism from ageism, that maybe, there is a kind of “age privilege” for younger women, too. I mean, it’s not a kind of privilege many of us want: the ability to “be hawt” when you want to be taken seriously, but now that I’m 47, I have to say I think it might be slightly preferable to the “hit the wall invisible” thing.
And I think there are quite a lot of young women who really glory in it. I can’t entirely blame them. It was sometimes fun to be young and desirable. But I’ll admit to being a reality-TV junky here (hey, I’ve always like game shows and can’t help liking the fusion of game show and serial drama), and I can’t even remember how many times I’ve heard some 22- or 23-year-old woman bashing a 30-something-year-old woman for being irrelevant because she was “over-the-hill” on those kind of shows. It’s always completely horrifying to me. It’s both misogynistic and ageist.
Oh damn. OL tags don’t work here. 🙁
Do these dudes never think that women would use sexbots as well? Why would a woman or “land whale” (blech, their attitude is so gross) need to compete with a sexbot when she can get one of her very own?
These visions of the future sure makes it seem like marriage is the easy way out (hetero or homo), if that’s the case, why not enter into a same sex marriage with their dude friend? Why do they have to “Go find a bored fat girl who’s willing to vouch for you to the IRS that you’re a taken man.”? My guess is that they don’t have meaningful friendships either. What sad sacks of crap they are.
jaygee – I have been watching a series on UK telly called Humans, where a woman does exactly that. But she finds it really clinical, so she says to her (male) sexbot ‘surprise me’, and then it turns into a situation where she feels threatened by him because he is trying to have sex with her when she does not want it. her husband comes in and has to bash the sexbot about a bit to get it to stop.
I feel rather conflicted about it all – but mainly rather pissed off that the scenario turns rapey, when if a man said to a female sexbot ‘surprise me’, it forcing itself on him just wouldn’t even come into the mind of any writer to portray.
Belladonna993, Jessica Valenti had a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago where she admitted to feeling ambivalent about the declining catcalls as she gets older (she’s only 36!). As a feminist, of course she doesn’t claim to have enjoyed the attention of creeps (from the age of 11). But, steeped as we all are in a society which constantly reinforces the idea that a woman’s worth depends on youthful looks, nobody can entirely escape that conditioning. The final para:
It’s strange to me to hear that a woman in her mid-thirties is invisible, but I had just watched Björk’s recent 360-degree music video (amazing!), and I though (a) she’s starting to look old, and (b) I love her more than ever for that.
Now reading back I see Humans was already cited, but not the scene I mentioned.
Moggie – I have to say that generally lesbians really NEVER miss the catcalls, even though we have also lived our lives under the scrutiny of men. Though the catcalls PLUMMET if one has ones hair short and wears trousers all the time. I actually think that that is a big reason a lot of lesbians adopt the ‘uniform’!
@Moggie
I’m so glad you didn’t take my picking apart of your comment as an attack and thank you for your contribution! I didn’t actually start to feel invisible until I hit about 41, and I’ve actually always found women older than 40 extremely attractive, so it’s particularly weird to be at an age where I find women attractive, and yet feel not-especially-attractive to either women or men, especially when the people who found me attractive in the past whose “attractiveness factor” I reciprocated were people who liked me mostly for my brains, but I don’t quite know quite how to think about any of it. Is it all my own perception? Maybe just as many people are finding me attractive but I don’t realize or recognize it because I think I’ve “hit the wall.”
Anyway, it’s all very confusing.
And Ellesar, I don’t dispute that many lesbians probably never miss the catcalls, but I can’t help wondering, as a married-to-a-man-bisexual-who-has-always-been-more-of-a-lesbian-at-heart-but-not-active-in-the-community, if my husband died, and I decided to try and participate in the lesbian community, would I just be seen as a tragic old thing? The little I’ve witnessed about how age is treated in that community kind of terrifies me. I would, however, be extremely glad to hear that I am totally wrong.
Thanks for the show mention Ellesar. The rapey direction of the male sexbot is disappointing. I just hope that when male sexbots come, women can be responsible for programming them.
I think I will check out Humans. I also plan on checking out Robots of Dawn. I love Sci Fi.
Speaking of Sci Fi: does anyone play 999 or Zero Escape (Virtue’s Last Reward)? If you don’t, you should. Game has great character development. I describe it to my friends as Professor Layton and Saw. And the final installment of the trilogy has been scheduled for next year (rather than postponed indefinitely). Yay!
Belladonna,
You may very well be right that young women not being taken seriously is just sexism and not sexism + reverse ageism. At 35, I’m still a bit too young to experience ageism. So I’ll defer to you or any other 40+ commenter on this issue.
@WWTH
Thank you. I value your opinion and always find your comments interesting and informative here. I think, really, that ageism and sexism are extremely difficult to deconstruct in our society. So much about them is context-dependent. If you’re a “matronly” older woman in some situations, maybe you can actually be taken more seriously. I really just haven’t read enough scholarly stuff about this issue, especially anything that makes any attempt to look at the fact that young men are treated differently from young women and old men are treated differently from old women, and how sexism and ageism intersect.
On a side note, my last post was thoroughly pathetic—so much worrying about my loss of attractiveness. I thought I’d be okay with aging, since I have truly always loved and appreciated older people. And I’ve watched my mom struggle with it, and she was always so much more concerned with appearance and gender roles (and more beautiful than me to begin with), and I thought it wouldn’t matter to me as much. And yet, it’s really hard.
Although I’m not a fervent believer in any religion, one of the reasons I was always attracted to paganism was because it valued the “crone.” And still, the larger society doesn’t see old women as contributing anything. And no matter how I try to spin it to believe in myself again, it’s just really hard.
Like I said earlier, I have really had a problem with ageism since before I was of an age to be victimized by it. I have often fantasized about living in a culture that actually respected old age rather than constantly glorifying youth. I was born at the end of the 60s, so I don’t know, but I sometimes wonder if the same “generation gap” culture that made so many other advances in civil liberties possible didn’t also engender the ageist culture that exists today. But hell, I don’t know. I should stop talking and just do some research.
Belladonna – in my experience (speaking as a middle class white man in the UK) male age privilege tends to start around 30 but varies wildly with class.
Men younger than 30 are given leeway to be violent and impulsive, but need to struggle to have their ideas taken seriously, even if they are as well reasoned as anyone else’s. I am of the opinion that this is a lingering holdover from the era of mass warfare, where men under 30 (“military age males”, as they’re sometimes known) were socialised to be violent, obedient and easily swayed.
Once one is over 30 it seems to vary wildly; not entirely by class but heavily influenced by it. There seem to be three streams: one becomes a venerable greybeard respected for their wisdom; one becomes a manboy clinging to their youth; or one becomes invisible in the same way as women do.
I turned 30 last year, and it’s interesting how subtle but noticeable the change was. Before that I was just an angry young man, but now I’ve heard people call me an ideologue. I’ve moved from being classed as cannon fodder to being classed as someone who inspires the cannon fodder.
(I’ve also noticed a huge upswing in the number of women in their late teens and early 20s who’ve hit on me. I have no idea why this is. I’m smart and tall and conventionally attractive, yes, but I was also that when I was 28.)
Wow, thanks EJ. You’ve given me something really interesting to think about. I think, really, that there may just be a greater intersectionality between ageism and just about anything else. I mean, aging is something absolutely everyone does, regardless of gender, class, race, nationality, or anything else. In that regard, it may be the most context-sensitive, and therefore difficult to pin down, -ism of them all.
Anyway, congratulations on reaching your age privilege. I hope you enjoy it for a good while! 🙂
(@Belladonna, I’ll respond to your post properly later, I’ve just had some RL news that’s got me a bit blurry right now. Just saying this to make sure you don’t think I’m ignoring you; not at all, you seem pretty awesome and I’ll come back as soon as I’m up to it. ^^;)
(All my hugs for your news, M.)
@SFHC
RL news totally trumps discussion here, and I hope it all turns out all right. As for the rest, thank you for the “pretty awesome” thing, and if you never get back to this, no big deal.
*hugs*
Hugs for your news, SFHC.
@sn0rkmaiden
That’s the thing, rivers are problematic. For most of human history, people used rivers for, ahem, waste disposal (and washing or dumping an occasional corpse) as well as a source of water, which meant periodic disease outbreaks (plus, fresh water can carry any number of parasites). Rain tanks, too, are not easy to maintain with primitive means; we aren’t the only organisms who really, really like water.
@Gaebolga
I think you meant this as a joke, but yes, actually, that’s precisely what people did in during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Even small children were given beer and wine. Only ascetics drank water, because it was foul and tended to make people sick. And when we read medieval sources about punishment, being put on “bread and water” may sound like merely punishment-by-dullness to the moderns; but back in the day, having to drink water really svcked.
It happened in the past so it is possible it could happen again.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/an-attack-on-bachelors-and-their-reply/
Hey! You leave Amazon Prime out of this, Octavian ! ?