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New Comment Policy

Cutest mod ever!
Cutest mod ever!

As promised, here is the new and I think improved comments policy.

It’s a bit long, but that’s in part because I’ve included sections that are designed to hopefully eliminate some of the contentious and often repetitive debates that have erupted in the past over the issue of ableism — in particular the use of words like “crazy” and “psycho” and the like. In the future, I am hoping that we can simply link new commenters to the policy (in particular, the “notes on ‘crazy'”) section and avoid a lot of the drama.

This policy is stricter towards those who “dig in” and insist on using problematic terms even though they’ve been informed of the rules about them; if they’ve been linked to the comments policy and persist in arguing or behaving badly, they will be banned. I’m also asking regulars to rein in their language in criticizing first-time offenders, and to not argue back with them if they persist. (There’s not much point to it, because offenders who persist will be banned.)

Not all of the changes and additions to the comments policy are in response to the ableism debates; I’ve also taken into consideration other controversies here, as well as comments policies on other blogs and broader discussions online about the best ways to moderate sites.

One other change: I will also put regular reminders in posts that all new commenters should read the comments policy before posting.

I am very much cognizant that many people who regularly read this blog — some of them who comment here regularly, some of whom are lurkers or only occasional commenters — are frustrated by the flame wars that have erupted here from time to time. I am frustrated as well, and troubled by the personal attacks I’ve seen in these discussions, directed not at trolls but at other commenters here in good faith.

I hope this new comment policy can end some of these flame wars before they start. If it doesn’t, I will (reluctantly) have to resort to shutting threads down and even suspending some commenters.

So here is the new comments policy. Discuss. Suggest improvements. Be civil.

Welcome prospective commenters!

Unmoderated internet forums quickly become shitheaps, so we have a few rules here. One thing to remember right off the bat: this is a feminist blog, designed (mostly) for a feminist audience. You don’t have to be a particular kind of feminist to post here, or even a feminist at all, but you do need to keep this in mind.

First comments from new commenters – or old commenters changing their name – automatically go to moderation. Regardless of your politics, if you start off here with a jerky or tediously argumentative comment, or if you trigger some other red flag for me, your first comment will never see the light of day.

MRAs, MGTOWs, PUAs, Red Pillers, “Equalists,” #GamerGaters and the like: you will be allowed to post here, if your first comment is amusing and/or not especially egregious, and if you more-or-less behave.

But I reserve the right to revoke your posting privileges at any time for any reason. You have a right to your opinions, but you don’t have a right to our attention. I am especially not interested in hearing your thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian (or some other target of angry dude harassment online).

Oh, and I sometimes set aside threads here as “no troll, no MRA” threads. If you post in one of them, even politely, you will be banned.

If you’re NOT an MRA or a troll, welcome!

You’re who this blog is really meant for. The comments too, provided you can participate in a generally constructive manner and can treat those you disagree with here with a certain degree of respect. Snark is fine; attacks and accusations and namecalling, not so much. 

If someone – whether a troll or a regular commenter — is acting badly enough to possibly warrant a suspension or ban, EMAIL ME OR THE MODS. That’s the fastest and most effective way to get it taken care of.

Some slightly more specific guidelines.

No bigotry (misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, body shaming, and so forth). No slurs. I’ve put the worst ones in the mod filter, so comments containing them won’t appear. If you want to discuss someone else’s use of a slur, disguise the word so your comment won’t get caught by the filter – though if you do this as a “clever” way to use a slur yourself, you may well find yourself banned.

No threats or violent comments. That includes telling someone to “die in a fire” or remarking that so-and-so would probably be better off dead. This rule is in effect even when you are talking about vile misogynistic shitbags.

No gratuitously nasty personal attacks. Yes, discussions can sometimes get a bit contentious. You’re not required to be perfectly nice all the time. Just don’t be a total asshole. And don’t drag your disagreements with someone into every thread.

No doxxing or posting of personal identifying information. Don’t spread rumors or speculate without evidence on the possible criminal activity of anyone else, whether this is another commenter or a misogynistic shitbag.

No rape apologism, pedo apologism, victim blaming, and so forth.

Don’t misgender anyone. If you do it accidentally, apologize and get it right the next time. If you do it deliberately, you’re out.

Don’t attack anyone for their sexual preferences or kinks, so long as they involve consenting adults. Refrain from weird or creepy sexual oversharing. Whatever your opinion of sex work, don’t disparage sex workers, or use words like “whore” as a pejorative. (Feel free to talk about MRAs who are using the word pejoratively.)

Don’t attack people for their religion or their lack of religion.

Don’t be a mansplainer or indeed any kind of ‘splainer. That is, don’t lecture anyone on something they know better than you, particularly if that thing is their lived experience.

Don’t post too much or try to make threads all about you. Try to avoid drama.

If you have personal issues you want to bring up, that’s fine! Use the troll-free open threads set aside for personal stuff. I’ll post a new one every couple of weeks. (I also start threads regularly to discuss big events in the news that people here are concerned about; feel free to email if you think something has happened that warrants one.)

No sockpuppeting. No lying. No misrepresentation of yourself or other people. No posting in bad faith – e.g. posting friendly comments here while trashing the site and/or the people on it elsewhere.

No pile-ons. If a number of people have already offered the same criticism of another commenter, don’t add more comments to the pile.

All this said, you don’t have to be perfect to comment here. As sociologist Katherine Cross (@Quinnae_Moon) has noted, very few people arrive “fully formed to the world of activism, the perfect agents of change, somehow entirely cognizant of the ever shifting morass of rules and prescribed or proscribed words, phrases, argot, and thought.”

I want this blog to be open to all those who genuinely oppose misogyny and bigotry more generally, even those who may slip up from time to time.

Still, if you’re new here, or new to feminism, and the regulars here are telling you to avoid certain words, or pointing out something that you’re doing that’s problematic, don’t take it as a personal attack (unless it is couched as a personal attack, in which case email me). If they tell you to avoid particular language, uh, avoid using that language, and don’t explain that in your country calling a person a something-or-other is perfectly fine.

You don’t have to agree with all the rules and/or cultural norms here; but while you’re commenting here you are expected to respect them. If you think a rule is really, really wrong or ridiculous, don’t argue about it in the comments; send me an email about it.

And this brings us to the issue of ableism, which has been a contentious one here.

NOTES ON “CRAZY”

Avoid “crazy” talk. That is, using words like “crazy,” “psycho” and the like to describe the terrible ideas and actions of people you don’t like. It’s stigmatizing to those dealing with mental illness, who really don’t need the extra indignity of being compared to MRAs. Try using words like “ridiculous” or “absurd” or “terrible” instead. Call someone an “asshole” instead of a “psycho.” Try to avoid internet diagnoses of mental illness, and don’t use autism or Aspergers as an excuse for someone’s shitty behavior.

Saying someone is “paranoid,” “delusional,” or “narcissistic” is fine, if you don’t mean it as a diagnosis; these are useful descriptive terms.

If there is evidence that someone you are discussing does indeed have a mental illness, and this is relevant to the discussion, it can be appropriate to bring this up, though you should keep in mind that a hunch is not evidence.

All this said, words like “crazy,” “psycho,” and the like are extremely common, and plenty of people (including feminists, progressives, and people dealing with mental illness themselves) use them casually without intending to stigmatize those with mental illnesses. There’s a difference between saying “crazy people should all be locked up” and “boy, Eraserhead sure was a crazy movie!”

If you’re someone who uses these terms casually, and doesn’t actually want all “crazy” people locked up, it doesn’t make you an evil person, but you need to refrain from doing it here. (Again, if you disagree with this policy, and feel a need to make this disagreement known, DO NOT ARGUE ABOUT IT IN THE COMMENTS, send me an email instead.)

If you are a regular commenter here, and someone uses a problematic term like “crazy” or “psycho,” remind them gently that this is not how we do things here, and send them a link to this comment policy (and possibly the Welcome Package as well). Unless what they have said is particularly egregious, do not insult them or question their motives.

If they argue, remind them that arguing about this rule is also not allowed. If they continue, do not argue back; send me or the mods a note and they will be banned. (This may take a little while, so be patient and please do not give in to the impulse to argue with them.)

If others have already reminded them of the rules, move on.

Again, if someone is acting really shitty in the comments, whether a troll or a regular, SEND THE MODS (or me) AN EMAIL.

One other thing to keep in mind:

MRAs read this blog. So I would strongly urge you to comment here using an anonymous handle that cannot be traced to your real identity. And to be very careful about revealing any sort of personal information on this blog. If you inadvertently post something using the wrong account, or that otherwise reveals personal information, let the mods know so we can remove those comments.

Oh, wait, one other other thought:

Enjoy yourself!

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Mari
Mari
9 years ago

Thanks for all the work on that policy, David.

Re: stupid and dumb. I try to use “stupid” to refer to actions but not people. “I did a really stupid thing putting that cup so close to the edge of the table. Now it’s broken.” Even the smartest people do stupid things. But I wouldn’t police the use of the word.

I was scolded about “dumb” at least fifty years ago in primary school. I was told not to use it because it implied deaf people (“hearing-impaired” not having come into use yet) were, well, stupid. The logic was that profoundly deaf people usually could not speak by means other than sign language and were hence “dumb.” It also referred to someone who had lost the power of speech for other reasons.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t use “dumb.” But words change meaning over time, and it’s interesting that something benign now was once considered ableist–long before “ableist” was a word. Just following up on Alan’s comment about “dog whistles” not being universal.

Mari
Mari
9 years ago

Looks like I missed a whole page of comments and the meaning of “dumb” was already discussed. Oops. That was stupid of me.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

The “Clique” stuff really is bizarre. Either WWTH, PoM or Kirby first called me a regular when I’d only been posting for a month, and Panda, EJ and Alan were all welcomed as regulars just as quickly. That’s not a clique, that’s an open-arms policy.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

… And I don’t keep mentioning that to be argumentative or dismissive, I just honestly don’t understand.

maistrechat
9 years ago

implied deaf people (“hearing-impaired” not having come into use yet

In the US at least, deaf is the preferred. “Hard of hearing” is also used for people with hearing difficulties, and “hearing-impaired” is (in the Deaf community, at least as far as I can tell) deprecated.

The way I hear it “hearing-impaired” was an issue because many (culturally) Deaf people don’t consider being deaf an impairment.

I’m not Deaf myself though so take all of this with a grain of salt.

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

By the way, am I a regular yet? A lurk-in lurk-out? Occasional regular (yeah, I like the oxymoron!)? A regulette?

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

I was welcomed here right away too, I don’t think it’s cliquish. The only thing you have to do be in the in group is spend way too much time here without picking fights.

I have to get back to work, but if people want, I’ll email David about Had to be wanked. They’re getting extremely tedious.

Falconer
9 years ago

I can only dimly remember a time before Luzbelitx and WWTH.

With the exception of, like, Katz, I may be the community graybeard. And I doubt Katz has any kind of beard.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

People within cliques often have difficulty realising that there is one; it’s like privilege in that way. As such, if our non-posters believe there is a clique, then I’m not in a position to contradict them. That said, I’m still extremely new to the site and I’ve never felt that people are anything but welcoming. I’d be surprised to hear that I was part of any clique.

That said, I lurked for about a year before joining, so I was able to slide right in, avoid the pitfalls, and make the in-jokes. People who just blunder in and expect the community to mold itself to their behaviour rather than vice versa may find it very different.

Drezden
Drezden
9 years ago

@ Luzbelitx

The proper term is regulite. Because reasons.

Largely, I think clique is being used as a shorthand for “all these people who are disagreeing with me.”

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

@Luz

If you’re not a regular, nobody is. =P

@WWTH

Good call. Dude got boring as shit four threads ago.

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

@Drezden

I like regulite!! I might even be regulitx in my case 😛

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@wwth:

I actually e-mailed him as well, in the context of clarifying the comment policy. Probably couldn’t hurt to have more folks saying something, though.

@Luzbelitx:

If I can be considered a regular despite making only one or two comments a week at most, you’re probably in. I’ll be sending the [redacted] to you shortly.

Re: Cliques:

There’s two ways I’ve personally seen something that might be considered cliquey.

The first is in labeling people as “trolls.” Not exactly out of step with the entire rest of the internet, but I could see the argument that sometimes people are a bit too quick with what unfortunately might have become a “snarl word.”

The second is when a commenter is accused of something, and a bunch of other people leap to their defense. Which, depending on the context, might be completely fine. The trouble I’m having is when the context made the defense not fine, and I think that case is what most people who complain about “cliques” here are referring to.

Other than that, I don’t really see cliquishness here. There aren’t really any factions in the comments section that I know of, and “regular or non-regular” just isn’t an important distinction here.

Like I and others have already said, though… it’d be nice to have some actual examples to look at.

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

@SHFC

Thanks! I sometimes feel I spend long times without posting -maybe they aren’t really that long.

I also see people who were new after me, are already posting way more and way more entertaining than I could *coughPandapoolcough*

These last pages of comments have been heartwarming, and I’d like to thank all the regular troll-smackers and anti-ableist-justice-warriors because I didn’t do it yet and you all deserve it (not saying any names because I’ll probably forget many important people :$ )

andiexist
andiexist
9 years ago

Wait, I’m not a newbie anymore. That just hit me. O_O

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@EJ:

That’s very easy to say, and usually pretty true, but you’ve got to provide some evidence of the thing. If only so that everyone knows what everyone else is actually talking about.

It’s like talking about communities and echo chambers. It’s very easy to talk about how like-minded communities can create echo chambers, insinuating that that’s whats going on in a particular case, but without pointing to something tangible insinuations are all you’ve got.

At least with privilege you can point to specifics. If the privileged group denies that those specifics are a thing, that’s a whole different conversation.

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

@andiexist

By the power vested in me by adding bits to the Internetz, I hereby pronounce you a Mammoth Regular.

You now have the privilege of continuing to do whatever you were doing in whichever way you were doing it!

Also, I adore your new avatar! I was away when you did the change and then got swallowed up by all the later comments, but since you’re here and so am I… 😀

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago
Falconer
9 years ago

With the exception of, like, Katz, I may be the community graybeard. And I doubt Katz has any kind of beard.

Okay, I went back and checked as far back as February, 2012, and Shaenon was also commenting then. Most everybody else from then has moved along, though.

Falconer
9 years ago

CUDDLE PUDDLE.

*lays face in pile* No I’m fine.

katz
katz
9 years ago

People within cliques often have difficulty realising that there is one; it’s like privilege in that way. As such, if our non-posters believe there is a clique, then I’m not in a position to contradict them.

While that’s true, it really feels like there’s a strong overlap between people who feel we’re too cliquish and people who just want to argue about the community rules.

This may be unfair of me, but in general, I don’t put much stock in people who comment for the first time in order to disagree about something. If you want to lurk, that’s fine, but I think you’re forfeiting your right to shape how the community behaves by choosing not to participate in it.

I think by “you’re a clique” a lot of people mean “I posted for the first time to tell you all to stop doing something, and people didn’t like it.”

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

*jumps into cuddle puddle*

Luzbelitx
9 years ago

@Falconer

I always find it sad that people leave online communities, even though it’s pretty much how it works and not always the result of some conflict.

I just wish there could be some Feminternetopia where we could all hang out and be friends and all past was forgiven and transformed into something beautiful *sigh*

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

@kirbywarp:

I agree with everything you said (how’s that for an echo chamber?) I don’t think either of us are able to judge about cliques, though, since we would by definition be members.

I think the floor has to be given to the new posters who’ve de-lurked just in this thread: do you feel that there’s a clique? You have, after all, watched us all this time.

Alternative hypothesis:
In some corners of the web, “clique” and “echo chamber” are used as slurs for a site where the commentariat aren’t assholes to one another and don’t tolerate divisiveness for the sake of divisiveness, or people disagreeing simply for fun. That might be the source of the term.

Falconer
9 years ago

I just wish there could be some Feminternetopia where we could all hang out and be friends and all past was forgiven and transformed into something beautiful *sigh*

I just hope that, if I should spot (say) cloudiah in the wild Internet, I could wave at her and she would say, Yessir, good ol’ Falconer. How I hate him!

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