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New Comment Policy

Cutest mod ever!
Cutest mod ever!

As promised, here is the new and I think improved comments policy.

It’s a bit long, but that’s in part because I’ve included sections that are designed to hopefully eliminate some of the contentious and often repetitive debates that have erupted in the past over the issue of ableism — in particular the use of words like “crazy” and “psycho” and the like. In the future, I am hoping that we can simply link new commenters to the policy (in particular, the “notes on ‘crazy'”) section and avoid a lot of the drama.

This policy is stricter towards those who “dig in” and insist on using problematic terms even though they’ve been informed of the rules about them; if they’ve been linked to the comments policy and persist in arguing or behaving badly, they will be banned. I’m also asking regulars to rein in their language in criticizing first-time offenders, and to not argue back with them if they persist. (There’s not much point to it, because offenders who persist will be banned.)

Not all of the changes and additions to the comments policy are in response to the ableism debates; I’ve also taken into consideration other controversies here, as well as comments policies on other blogs and broader discussions online about the best ways to moderate sites.

One other change: I will also put regular reminders in posts that all new commenters should read the comments policy before posting.

I am very much cognizant that many people who regularly read this blog — some of them who comment here regularly, some of whom are lurkers or only occasional commenters — are frustrated by the flame wars that have erupted here from time to time. I am frustrated as well, and troubled by the personal attacks I’ve seen in these discussions, directed not at trolls but at other commenters here in good faith.

I hope this new comment policy can end some of these flame wars before they start. If it doesn’t, I will (reluctantly) have to resort to shutting threads down and even suspending some commenters.

So here is the new comments policy. Discuss. Suggest improvements. Be civil.

Welcome prospective commenters!

Unmoderated internet forums quickly become shitheaps, so we have a few rules here. One thing to remember right off the bat: this is a feminist blog, designed (mostly) for a feminist audience. You don’t have to be a particular kind of feminist to post here, or even a feminist at all, but you do need to keep this in mind.

First comments from new commenters – or old commenters changing their name – automatically go to moderation. Regardless of your politics, if you start off here with a jerky or tediously argumentative comment, or if you trigger some other red flag for me, your first comment will never see the light of day.

MRAs, MGTOWs, PUAs, Red Pillers, “Equalists,” #GamerGaters and the like: you will be allowed to post here, if your first comment is amusing and/or not especially egregious, and if you more-or-less behave.

But I reserve the right to revoke your posting privileges at any time for any reason. You have a right to your opinions, but you don’t have a right to our attention. I am especially not interested in hearing your thoughts on Anita Sarkeesian (or some other target of angry dude harassment online).

Oh, and I sometimes set aside threads here as “no troll, no MRA” threads. If you post in one of them, even politely, you will be banned.

If you’re NOT an MRA or a troll, welcome!

You’re who this blog is really meant for. The comments too, provided you can participate in a generally constructive manner and can treat those you disagree with here with a certain degree of respect. Snark is fine; attacks and accusations and namecalling, not so much. 

If someone – whether a troll or a regular commenter — is acting badly enough to possibly warrant a suspension or ban, EMAIL ME OR THE MODS. That’s the fastest and most effective way to get it taken care of.

Some slightly more specific guidelines.

No bigotry (misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, body shaming, and so forth). No slurs. I’ve put the worst ones in the mod filter, so comments containing them won’t appear. If you want to discuss someone else’s use of a slur, disguise the word so your comment won’t get caught by the filter – though if you do this as a “clever” way to use a slur yourself, you may well find yourself banned.

No threats or violent comments. That includes telling someone to “die in a fire” or remarking that so-and-so would probably be better off dead. This rule is in effect even when you are talking about vile misogynistic shitbags.

No gratuitously nasty personal attacks. Yes, discussions can sometimes get a bit contentious. You’re not required to be perfectly nice all the time. Just don’t be a total asshole. And don’t drag your disagreements with someone into every thread.

No doxxing or posting of personal identifying information. Don’t spread rumors or speculate without evidence on the possible criminal activity of anyone else, whether this is another commenter or a misogynistic shitbag.

No rape apologism, pedo apologism, victim blaming, and so forth.

Don’t misgender anyone. If you do it accidentally, apologize and get it right the next time. If you do it deliberately, you’re out.

Don’t attack anyone for their sexual preferences or kinks, so long as they involve consenting adults. Refrain from weird or creepy sexual oversharing. Whatever your opinion of sex work, don’t disparage sex workers, or use words like “whore” as a pejorative. (Feel free to talk about MRAs who are using the word pejoratively.)

Don’t attack people for their religion or their lack of religion.

Don’t be a mansplainer or indeed any kind of ‘splainer. That is, don’t lecture anyone on something they know better than you, particularly if that thing is their lived experience.

Don’t post too much or try to make threads all about you. Try to avoid drama.

If you have personal issues you want to bring up, that’s fine! Use the troll-free open threads set aside for personal stuff. I’ll post a new one every couple of weeks. (I also start threads regularly to discuss big events in the news that people here are concerned about; feel free to email if you think something has happened that warrants one.)

No sockpuppeting. No lying. No misrepresentation of yourself or other people. No posting in bad faith – e.g. posting friendly comments here while trashing the site and/or the people on it elsewhere.

No pile-ons. If a number of people have already offered the same criticism of another commenter, don’t add more comments to the pile.

All this said, you don’t have to be perfect to comment here. As sociologist Katherine Cross (@Quinnae_Moon) has noted, very few people arrive “fully formed to the world of activism, the perfect agents of change, somehow entirely cognizant of the ever shifting morass of rules and prescribed or proscribed words, phrases, argot, and thought.”

I want this blog to be open to all those who genuinely oppose misogyny and bigotry more generally, even those who may slip up from time to time.

Still, if you’re new here, or new to feminism, and the regulars here are telling you to avoid certain words, or pointing out something that you’re doing that’s problematic, don’t take it as a personal attack (unless it is couched as a personal attack, in which case email me). If they tell you to avoid particular language, uh, avoid using that language, and don’t explain that in your country calling a person a something-or-other is perfectly fine.

You don’t have to agree with all the rules and/or cultural norms here; but while you’re commenting here you are expected to respect them. If you think a rule is really, really wrong or ridiculous, don’t argue about it in the comments; send me an email about it.

And this brings us to the issue of ableism, which has been a contentious one here.

NOTES ON “CRAZY”

Avoid “crazy” talk. That is, using words like “crazy,” “psycho” and the like to describe the terrible ideas and actions of people you don’t like. It’s stigmatizing to those dealing with mental illness, who really don’t need the extra indignity of being compared to MRAs. Try using words like “ridiculous” or “absurd” or “terrible” instead. Call someone an “asshole” instead of a “psycho.” Try to avoid internet diagnoses of mental illness, and don’t use autism or Aspergers as an excuse for someone’s shitty behavior.

Saying someone is “paranoid,” “delusional,” or “narcissistic” is fine, if you don’t mean it as a diagnosis; these are useful descriptive terms.

If there is evidence that someone you are discussing does indeed have a mental illness, and this is relevant to the discussion, it can be appropriate to bring this up, though you should keep in mind that a hunch is not evidence.

All this said, words like “crazy,” “psycho,” and the like are extremely common, and plenty of people (including feminists, progressives, and people dealing with mental illness themselves) use them casually without intending to stigmatize those with mental illnesses. There’s a difference between saying “crazy people should all be locked up” and “boy, Eraserhead sure was a crazy movie!”

If you’re someone who uses these terms casually, and doesn’t actually want all “crazy” people locked up, it doesn’t make you an evil person, but you need to refrain from doing it here. (Again, if you disagree with this policy, and feel a need to make this disagreement known, DO NOT ARGUE ABOUT IT IN THE COMMENTS, send me an email instead.)

If you are a regular commenter here, and someone uses a problematic term like “crazy” or “psycho,” remind them gently that this is not how we do things here, and send them a link to this comment policy (and possibly the Welcome Package as well). Unless what they have said is particularly egregious, do not insult them or question their motives.

If they argue, remind them that arguing about this rule is also not allowed. If they continue, do not argue back; send me or the mods a note and they will be banned. (This may take a little while, so be patient and please do not give in to the impulse to argue with them.)

If others have already reminded them of the rules, move on.

Again, if someone is acting really shitty in the comments, whether a troll or a regular, SEND THE MODS (or me) AN EMAIL.

One other thing to keep in mind:

MRAs read this blog. So I would strongly urge you to comment here using an anonymous handle that cannot be traced to your real identity. And to be very careful about revealing any sort of personal information on this blog. If you inadvertently post something using the wrong account, or that otherwise reveals personal information, let the mods know so we can remove those comments.

Oh, wait, one other other thought:

Enjoy yourself!

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Had To Be Said
Had To Be Said
9 years ago

Well, I could make my own original argument against the value of personal attacks, but is that really necessary?

TakeThatHatOff
TakeThatHatOff
9 years ago

Thank you so much for doing your best to keep this a safe space david!! As someone from a family with a strong history of mental illness I really appreciate it!!
(Exclamation mark party!!!! I have been reading too much manga lately -.-, )

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

Hey, look what I’ve dragged in.

http://media.giphy.com/media/vPYBCHGSTWiwo/giphy.gif

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ad to be Hominem:

Do I really have to spell it out? You, as far as I’ve seen, have not been faced with “abuse.” Mean names alone are not abuse. Arguing against you with a tone other than timid acceptance is not “abuse.” It’d be great if you could point out exactly what “abuse” you think you’ve received, honestly, becuase I’m even having trouble finding many comments addressed at you in the thread where you made the whole sarcastic spiel against “abuse.”

And, you might want to know, logical fallacies are completely irrelevant when someone isn’t making a logical argument. They are especially completely irrelevant when someone is not making an argument at all, just mocking you.

The word “abuse” has a pretty serious meaning; justify it or stop using it.

And as an apology for derailing a comment policy thread with a conversation that’s bordering on exercising it, here’s some dragons. 🙂

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/4/40/Dragons.png/revision/latest?cb=20130224183805

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago
EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago
kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ej:

Nope and NOOOOOOPPPPEEEEEEE!

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

(On second thought, I’m glad that didn’t embed… it was a throwaway joke which shouldn’t break up the tide of adorable dragon images.)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Your pennance is adorable dragon images!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@EJ

*sees picture*

http://37.media.tumblr.com/bd738c7a0b6f6eb08e3e18156052f080/tumblr_n6yxsl00qH1rtmoc5o1_500.gif

You’re a horrible person.

[Pandapool Greatly Disapproves]

Moocow
9 years ago

@kirbywarp

“Ad to be Hominem:”

And now my keyboard is soaking wet XD. I need a firebender over here
comment image

Morrizaurus
Morrizaurus
9 years ago

@Rabid Rabbit I’d like this; if we could have a section for useful links about feminism/trans issues/racism/ableism (by my spell checker’s standards not even a real word) so we could point people towards when they do a faux pas if they do acknowledge the mistake or just identify trolls who don’t give a shit.

That’s not to say there aren’t a ton of useful links a google chop away but it might prove useful to have an accurate link in hand since, misquoting David’s quote of Katherine Cross, some people are new and need those.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@Morrizaurus

You need a new spell check.

Morrizaurus
Morrizaurus
9 years ago

It’s the chrome one, kinda weird for them not to have it

contrapangloss
9 years ago

New rules, much like. Now sleep must have.

Today was a good day in EMS land.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@Morrizaurus

That’s weird because it’s in my Chrome spell check.

sevenofmine
9 years ago

@ Lam

David (and anyone else), I wondering about your thoughts on the words “stupid”, “lame”, “dumb”, and the likes. I’ve seen regulars here use them, so I assume they don’t count that as ableism?

My personal opinion is that I’m happy to not use them if anyone objects to them. They’re pretty much devoid of any descriptive power so, apart from anyone’s opinion on whether they’re ableist or not, I feel like people arguing in good faith should be avoiding them for that reason anyway.

On the subject of the actual policy, I think it’s great as long as it’s enforced in a timely manner. I’d hate to have a situation where someone posts a link to the rules and then the person making the ableist comment is free to keep being ableist while everyone else is expected to bite their collective tongue until David has time to clean up, which can sometimes be days if he’s busy IRL.

sevenofmine
9 years ago

Also, on the subject of piling on…blegh. It’s such a prickly thing. I fully agree that multiple people don’t generally need to make exactly the same point. On the other hand, sometimes wording the same point slightly differently is exactly what’s needed to get through to someone. I also think it’s totally reasonable for many people to chime in and say “I also disapprove of X”. I think it’s necessary for the entire community to be able to show their support for that kind of stuff. You don’t change people’s attitudes by giving the impression that it’s only an occasional, particularly sensitive person who disapproves of ableism.

I’m going to guess that people are generally opposed to any kind of upvote/downvote system, so I don’t really know how you solve this supposed dogpiling problem without also putting undue stress on people’s general ability to show their opposition to bigoted statements. I feel like there needs to be at least some expectation placed on newcomers to realize that what we’re all basically doing when we comment is shouting an opinion into a crowded room. You have to expect that, if what you said turns out to be incorrect or if some find it hurtful, that multiple people are going to have something to say about it.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

Honestly, I think the main issue is we need more mods. We only have one, and I haven’t seen her around in weeks.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

I also think it’s totally reasonable for many people to chime in and say “I also disapprove of X”. I think it’s necessary for the entire community to be able to show their support for that kind of stuff. You don’t change people’s attitudes by giving the impression that it’s only an occasional, particularly sensitive person who disapproves of ableism.

This times a thousand.

(Also, my penance for my earlier dragon joke appears to be duplicates in my SQL tables. *sigh.*)

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

The other problem with the “Dogpiling” stuff is that such claims are, well, baseless tone-policing with all the truth of one of Dare To Be Stupid’s posts behind them. As a few others pointed out, the other thread devolved into a dozen derailers accusing us of “Dogpiling” after less than ten posts (mostly accidental ninjas) between two ableist comments, and not even one of them offered a lick of proof no matter how often we asked.

But I’m okay with the rule, because it’ll shut down the dozen derailers and their genuine dogpiling, and karma is always fun to watch. >P

NothingClever
NothingClever
9 years ago

@ Auntie Alias, thanks for the hug on the other thread. The reason I spoke up at all was because the situation on some of these threads really reminded me of the emotional bullying my mother would put me through as a child. Whenever I did something “wrong” (oftentimes I didn’t even know what it was), she would withhold physical contact from me for days, wouldn’t speak or even look at me. And when I tried to apologize, her response was always, “You’re not sorry or else you wouldn’t have done it.” I think that’s the major reason why I’m so quick and willing to forgive these days, because I know how it feels to carry someone’s scorn for so long. It’s really an awful feeling.

To everyone else, I want to say again that I’m sorry if I said anything to offend anyone in the other thread. I’m sure my comments really didn’t make that much impact in the overall conversation, but more than one person told me I was telling them how to feel and that’s not at all anything I would ever want used to describe me.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Hey, if the rule against dogpiling is enforced, that means someone will actually have to read through the thread and make a judgement call. That’ll be fun. ^_^;

I have a feeling someone will always be unhappy, but at least there will be an actual example to talk about.

I guess apart from that, the best all of us big ol meanies can do is just be aware that a one-v-one conversation to you may be one-v-lots to the other person, and use your best judgement.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

(Oh, and post-caffeine, I should apologise to David for my swear-word-filled ragesnit last night. I’m just going to ignore Cyberbully’s existence from now on.)