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Does the new Facebook friends icon prove that feminists are man-hating female supremacists? One lady MRA says yes

Female supremacy in action?
Female supremacy in action?

So Facebook has been making some tweaks to some of its graphics. The company recently changed its already unexciting logo to one that is … even less exciting, but apparently easier to read on mobile devices.

But it’s what Facebook has done to its “friends” icon that has one lady MRA up in arms.

In a post yesterday, A Voice for Men’s still-banned-on-Twitter “Social Media Director,” known as JudgyBitch, declared Facebook’s “Feminist designers” to be “as shitty at designing as they are at equality” and offered them a virtual middle-finger in the style of Facebook’s iconic thumbs up icon.

fuck-off

So what has JudgyBitch in a snit this time? Well, a few months ago, Facebook design manager Caitlin Winner was struck by the fact that the site’s “friends” icon depicted the silhouette of a woman standing behind a larger man. This didn’t sit right with her. In a Medium post explaining the new graphics, she wrote

As a woman, educated at a women’s college, it was hard not to read into the symbolism of the current icon; the woman was quite literally in the shadow of the man, she was not in a position to lean in.

My first idea was to draw a double silhouette, two people of equal sizes without a hard line indicating who was in front. Dozens of iterations later, I abandoned this approach after failing to make an icon that didn’t look like a two headed mythical beast. I placed the lady, slightly smaller, in front of the man.

She also removed the silly spike in the man’s hair and gave the woman a cuter ‘do as well. (Scroll back up to see the old and new icons side by side.)

Facebook quietly rolled out the new icons, as well as several other icons Winner had tweaked (including an androgynous figure that can be read as male or female or neither). But not everywhere just yet: while the new icons seem to have made it into the mobile app, the old icons remain on the site’s web version. No one seemed to have even noticed the change until Winner posted her explanation earlier this week. The reaction has been mostly positive.

But to JudgyBitch, the fact that the woman is now in front of the man is yet more proof that feminism isn’t about equality at all, but female supremacy.

I honestly think a good number of women who call themselves feminists have swallowed the lie that feminism is simply about equality between men and women … 

Hire a woman’s who went to a woman’s college if you want to see real feminism is action. … 

Facebook is not making a business decision – our demographic skews heavily female, so we have changed our friends icon to reflect that – they are making an ideological one: men’s proper place is in women’s shadow.

Well, if you ignore the fact that the figures are now the same size, and simply look like two people standing close together.

JB also posted an assortment of generic icons of men and women to show that Facebook could have depicted a man and a woman together without one being in front of the other, or without the two looking like a two-headed monster.

Here’s one of her examples of icon equality in action:

icon5

You may have noticed that the man is in front of the woman. JB evidently didn’t.

Hey, the Men’s Rights movement needs a steady supply of phony outrages to keep itself going, and JB has provided it with yet another one.

H/T — @TakedownMRAs

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andiexist
andiexist
5 years ago
Reply to  femac

@femac

…no, not dirty in the sense of being unnatural or fundamentally, religiously unclean, but I dunno why you’re objecting so hard to “cis women (and trans men) need to have access to hygiene products that don’t give them infections and such” and “yeah, bleeding all over stuff is kinda unhygienic.”

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

I lurked for a few years before diving in. I made a Our Feminist Overlord Katie joke and a Scented Fucking Candles joke on my first post to show that I’d read the site before. Nobody actually commented – I like to think I fit in well enough that people assumed I’d been there all along.

Every site has its own etiquette. This site isn’t a safe area, so people are always going to be wary of unrecognised people in case they’re trolls. Once we’re sure someone isn’t a troll, there tends to be a lot more leniency and forgiveness. You can call it cliquishness if you like; I prefer to think of it as the due diligence of a warzone.

femac
femac
5 years ago

Bless you seven of mine. Again, not a troll just really pissed off you choose to represent me as someone who did not know what hygiene was. I am not dishonestly representing you. Scroll upthread, you accused me of not knowing what hygiene was. Own it. You wrote it.

I am totally struggling here how a feminist site could be apologising over posters who claim to be feminists and still think menstruation is dirty. You might not like what I said. I stand by it anyway. And seriously, there is so much other shit going on that hurts women that needs fixing. Why is everybody turning on each other. The MRAs must be pissing themselves laughing

sevenofmine
5 years ago

You’re clearly using “dirty” to mean “unclean” in a religious sense despite many people clarifying that’s not what they mean. Very explicitly. You’re now pretending you don’t understand a distinction between a word and the concept represented by that word. You are transparent.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Why is everybody turning on each other.

This coming from someone who jumped in after such a long posting hiatus that nobody knows you to call us out for how horrible we are?

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

This is probably not the best place for a white cis-het male to step in but I think a point has been missed. People got off on menstrual blood when in fact, as I understand it, (1) it is a serious nuisance or (in many cultures) worse but not really a serious health problem per se, and (2) the real issue is the problem of avoiding urinary and vaginal infections from fecal contamination, which requires much more careful hygiene for girls and women than what boys and men have to practice, and that hygiene issue is obviously compounded when there is a lack of clean water available. Urinary and vaginal infections are not usually life-threatening, but I have never heard a woman to say anything positive about them.
As to the issue of menstruation and ritual uncleanness, the understanding of the role of menstruation in reproduction is probably relatively recent, and to primitive humans it must have been somewhat magical and even frightening to have a person suddenly bleeding with no obvious wound and no apparent ill result. And particularly if, as some people think, menstruation was fairly rare in prehistoric times because fertile women were normally either pregnant or nursing. One of the problems with religion is that primitive superstitions get enshrined as rituals and persist long after the reason they once existed has passed by.

As to the issue of hospitability, I don’t think this site is significantly hostile with one minor exception. The prohibition on ableist language bans certain words that are so commonly used that most people have forgotten what they really mean and use them without thinking. Also, the policy is a bit inconsistent — for example, “r@tarded” is completely banned, but its synonyms “moron” and “idiot” are not even criticized. It can take someone new a while to get used to the ins and outs of the policy, and sometimes a newbie gets yelled at a bit too harshly, particularly when they — through no fault of their own — happen to be the third or fourth offender on a particular thread.
This is a blog, and people here post without thinking things over for several days and submitting them to independent parties for editing and copy-editing. This particular kerfluffle, it seems to me, originated in a poor choice of words that was taken as an intentional judgment. That is, one poster carelessly used the loaded word “dirty” when, if she had had the leisure to think things over, she would have used a more neutral term such as “hygiene issue.” I think we all are sloppy and careless with our words at times, and we need to understand that often people say things here that come out sounding somewhat different than what they intend.
As a semi-regular poster, I probably get more leeway than I deserve, but the commentariat can be a bit hard on newbies at times. There is a feelings that newbies have the burden of proving that they are not trolls, and I’m not particularly comfortable with that. I don’t think you want to scare away people who might prove to be good contributors to the community.

femac
femac
5 years ago

Sevenof mine

Ha ha yes you are the total guru on how I should interpret my bleeding. Happy days. Nice you dodged the whole you are not hygienic thing. Scroll above again. You, Seven of Mine, accused me of not knowing what hygiene was (and you have the temerity to call ME transparent) I am not pretending anything here. I am STILL really cranky about the whole menstrual blood is dirty thing. and ask you here, right now, to either agree this thread maybe went a bit far on the menstruation is dirty thing or maybe you think women menstruating should be ostracised (at this point I have no idea where you stand on this but can’t think it is anywhere good).

Look, it is fucking ridiculous that so many people here would be linking to articles instead of actually asking real women how menstruation actually feels and how it affects them. This is supposed to be a feminist site

femac
femac
5 years ago

WWTH

Why is everybody turning on each other. (my initial question)

This coming from someone who jumped in after such a long posting hiatus that nobody knows you to call us out for how horrible we are?

WWTH. There are plenty of people who know me here. The fact you aren’t one of them doesn’t mean what I am posting has no merit. If you want to take me to task for what I posted, I am more than happy to defend my position (assuming my position had merit when I posted it – not always true 🙂

I ask you to take me on the merit of what I post. Good or Bad.

Screw me over if you don’t like what I say, but al least read what I say before you judge

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

What the fuck is even happening here.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

I don’t know, Panda. I do not know. Guinness World Record attempt at unseating the Nolan thread and the glossary for “Most trolls in one thread”?

andiexist
andiexist
5 years ago

@non-trolls

Apparently none of us are real women now. O_o

@femac

Did you forget that there are many people with vaginas here who know how vaginas work just as well as you do?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

We have a couple of trans men here, too. “Real women” seems transphobic in that light, but I’ll be extraordinarily generous to Femac (because I have coffee now, yay!) and assume it wasn’t meant that way.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

@femac,

Didn’t you say that you use soap, water, and tampons for hygiene? If so, how can you not see how not having access to running water and pads/tampons would be an issue?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Seriously. I’m rereading this and

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/ert.gif

Just, are we, I mean, just…what.

Falconer
5 years ago

Well, a Google site search for “wehuntedthemammoth.com” and “femac” turns up a couple of threads from 2012 that femac commented on (e.g., here and here), and the icons look the same, so she’s been lurking for a while, about as long as I’ve been commenting.

There are plenty of people who know me here.

And we shall now pause to let them come forward and vouch for you.

Now, my memory’s famously unreliable, but a few comments three years ago is a very thin base to expect the average person to recall you on.

I ask you to take me on the merit of what I post. Good or Bad.

Immediately antagonistic. No support. Dismissive of other comments. Normalizes experiences. Hypocritical.

Meh.

Falconer
5 years ago

Didn’t you say that you use soap, water, and tampons for hygiene? If so, how can you not see how not having access to running water and pads/tampons would be an issue?

I do not have menstruating plumbing, so I don’t have any standing in that argument, but it seems to me like everyone should have the knowledge, capacity and tools to clean their bits? Maybe? If they want to?

I mean, maybe someone else doesn’t want to listen to Taylor Swift and Shake It Off after they’ve been to the urinal, but I’m self-conscious about it.

Binjabreel
5 years ago

I’ll say this- I been posting and lurking here for years now, and I have no fucking clue who you are, femac.

On this thread, though, you’ve been acting like shit. So I do have that to go on.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

I call shenanigans right here. Are you seriously suggesting that women from prehistoric times (and women have menstruated forever – it is not exactly a new thing that cropped up in the last few years) did not know how to clean their own bodies prior to ‘feminine hygiene products’? You seem to be shitting on women here and I have no idea why.

Do you read history? In Egypt, they used shit as medicine. In medieval times, they thought good smelling herbs would keep away the plague. In the 19th century, doctors used wooden handle surgery tools and didn’t wash their hands.

No one knew anything about cleanliness. That’s why Christians thought Jewish and Muslim people were cursing people in Þe olden tymes because they had basic hygiene in their religion. People were dumb about cleanliness.

Way to miss the point. The point was there WAS no problem in prehistoric times keeping your body clean. It was childbirth that killed you. Why are you still trying to assert that menstrual blood is so dirty? It just isn’t. It is a normal function from a fertile woman.

It’s dirty in the way everything coming out of the body is dirty, from urine to shit to snot. (Or even fluids that aren’t actually supposed to leave the body, like stomach acid, blood, brain fluids, etc.) There’s a reason it’s exiting the body instead of staying in, and that’s because it rots and festers within the body and can cause nasty infections. Leaving in a moon cup, for instance, is not at all fucking advisable. (Would not read that link if you have a sensitive stomach.)

It’s natural, healthy and shouldn’t be shunned and be called “gross” because it’s “dirty” but the fluid definitely not hygienic and should be properly cleaned up when it comes out.

Misha
Misha
5 years ago

Ditto on having no clue who femac is. Although not a regular poster, I spent a ridonkulous amount of time last year backtracking on old posts and commentary. I think someone like femac would be hard to forget.

What’s with the constant “ask a real woman (femac, the online and only) about menstruation” spiel? I’m pretty sure I have lady bits. I’m also pretty sure I honk to high heaven from said bits if I don’t wash regularly when it’s lady week. As many other women do. Due to menstrual blood not having magical properties and being a potential breeding ground for bacteria like any other form of bodily discharge. But as femac seems to be the only voice of womanhood present and the only one we should all be turning to, I guess my experiences of soreness, rashes and one particularly memorable infection don’t count.

Look, it is fucking ridiculous that so many people here would be linking to articles instead of actually asking real women how menstruation actually feels and how it affects them.

Seemingly the voices of those other women represented in articles cited by other commenters don’t count either.

Just for clarity, I don’t think I nor anyone else is saying that menstrual blood is “dirty”. What it is, is a biological process just like any other that can lead to uncomfortable conditions for many women if not cleaned up regularly. If you don’t need to use pads or hygiene products, cool. I agree that many feminine products out there are nothing more than a money-making crock. But many women (myself included), whether because of hormone levels or food intake or a fondness for non-breathable jeans, do need to use some products fairly regularly due to differing hygiene requirements.

I am STILL really cranky about the whole menstrual blood is dirty thing. and ask you here, right now, to either agree this thread maybe went a bit far on the menstruation is dirty thing.

In light of the above (i.e menstrual blood isn’t magic, a lot of women are prone to negative consequences if they don’t keep to their own personal standards of hygiene, nobody said that it was ‘dirty’ but could lead to unsanitary conditions) don’t you think you might be the one who has to apologize for going a bit too far on the “menstruation is not dirty thing”?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Misha

‘lady week’ might be my new favourite euphemism.

I also like “fallen to the Communists” but that’s because of that brilliant bit in ‘The IT Crowd’ (“Well they do have some strong arguments”)

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

I just tell people I’m a communist for the week. I had to explain the joke to a friend of mine by explicitly telling him I was on my period, but he understands the code now.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

I just say I’m on my period because I am not clever.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

Thank you to everyone who stuck up for me. I’m so glad that you guys understood my intent! Sorry I’ve been gone for a few days. I’ve been busy with the family.

@t, no need to apologize, I wasn’t bothered. Sorry to hear about your grandmother, brother, and husband. Sorry that I triggered you. I understand your concerns with the word “dirty”. Yes, I’m aware of how anti-sex and scared of the female genitalia many misogynists are. But hear me out.

I understand “dirty” being a loaded word, however “dirty” isn’t synonymous with “disgusting”. “Dirty” just means that there’s stuff there, that it’s not 100% sterile, and yes, an *healthy* vagina & vulva are a rich hot spot of bacteria, yeast, and other flora. The genitals are by no mean unique here, if it makes you feel any better, your mouth is far “dirtier” than your vagina is. When you hear a dentist/doctor talking about the mouth being one of the “dirtiest” places on the human body as they do, xe is not insulting you, xe is speaking of the potential of something going wrong and an infection of some sort starting up.

@grumpyoldmangina

There’s equal concern with vaginal flora getting into sterile places as gut flora. It’s why women need to pee after sex/masturbation. I got reoccurant UTIs as a teen, and was told very strongly by my urologist that my UTIS would continue until I stopped being so lazy about peeing after jilling off late at night. 🙁

@femac

“and also referred to menstruation as part of that and compared it to smegma which she saw as cleaner”

Yeah, that’s *NOT* what I said *at all*. I said that *in addition* to girls producing literally an *equal amount* of smegma as boys, girls *also* menstruate. (Smegma only builds up into a cheesy substance when its left for a period of time.) We can’t circumcise boys because of smegma (the “dick cheese” excuse) and then get all pissed when the same excuse gets aimed at women. Healthy genitals produce lubrication. That’s what they do. It’s a feature, not a dysfunction.

Anyway, that’s the reason for the snark in my comment. I was snarking against the idea of boys genitals being “disgusting”; it wasn’t intended to mean that *girls* genitals were disgusting instead. But then again I could probably be beaten with a manual outlining how intent isn’t magic and still remain oblivious on the ways of keeping my foot out of my mouth. 😉

“Where are you coming from? I am pushing 50 and have welcomed all those technological advances (ok only tampons as opposed to tampax which need an applicator to shove it up you) but there was NEVER a lack of feminine hygiene products. Soap and water (or even water alone if you are stuck in the middle of nowhere) works just fine. ‘Feminine hygiene products’ apart from soap and water and tampons are just marketing wankers attempts to get the dollars from the wimmenz. Again this is just an assumption that the wimmenz menstrual blood is so dirty we need extra special products so the planet doesn’t die off. And da wimmenz can keep reproducing.”

a. You say that water (and maybe soap) are the only “feminine hygiene” products needed, ignoring that the greater meta-discussion was hygiene when soap and water weren’t available.

b. There’s several logistical mistakes in your post. I’ve had this discussion with MRAS several times, and they *always* fuck up the logistics. (I mean, besides the fact that judging by their insults they seem to think that women only require feminine hygiene products because they have seen which causes them to have “floppy vags”). Many men seem to underestimate the amount of fluid lost during menstruation and seem to think that women could get by without pads or tampons of some sort (homemade or otherwise) and just rinse off with water a few times a day, many men fuck up the logistics of how feminine products work (ie. Thinking that Tampax *have* to be used with the applicator, and not realizing that all you have to do is pull it out to have a normal tampon), and not factoring in the reality that menstrual blood is a *waste product* (like urine, and shit,) and *is* absolutely *unsanitary*. (I know guys like to pretend that women don’t poop, fart, burp, or pee, but we do.) Combined with you attitude that basically amounts to how stupid and spoiled western women are for thinking tampons and pads are important, I think your slip is showing, bro.

C. “Go back and look at history. Childbirth was the number 1 reason women didn’t survive. Jeez the menstruation thing was never an issue”

Yeah, and most those childbirth deaths were from infection. Yes, many of those infections were caused by doctors with poor hygiene, but caused by infections that were constant in the woman *due to poor feminine hygiene*.

Swing again?

Again, thanks for the support guys. You guys are awesome proof as to how non-cliquey this place is. I’m by no means even a regular here, you guys are awesome. *hugs*

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@mrex

We’re “cliquey” as in we don’t tolerate ignorance about basic science, history or how the world actually works. That’s what people mean by “cliquey”: We don’t tolerate people who say the sky is plaidweave.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@mrex

Not a problem. =) I’m sure Femac will laugh at this, but I hate seeing people get dogpiled on for totally imagined non-reasons.

johann7
5 years ago

That’s a terrible Photoshop job with the FB hand flipping the bird: the stroke weight on that extended middle finger isn’t anywhere close to that of the outline of the rest of the image. I’m offended as a feminist AND as someone who took one graphic design class in high school.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

johann7 | July 13, 2015 at 4:43 pm
That’s a terrible Photoshop job with the FB hand flipping the bird: the stroke weight on that extended middle finger isn’t anywhere close to that of the outline of the rest of the image. I’m offended as a feminist AND as someone who took one graphic design class in high school.

If it makes you feel better, I’m offended as a feminist AND someone who has a degree in Graphic Design.

katz
katz
5 years ago

To point out the obvious, every vulva is different, so femac may have one that can easily be kept clean under stone-age conditions and someone else may have one that requires constant care to avoid infection.

I got the depo shot and now I don’t menstruate and it’s the BEST.

Misha
Misha
5 years ago

Speaking of the depo shot, what the hell was this earlier comment about:

There is a huge difference between blowing your nose and menstruating. I am truly struggling here. I do not understand how you could make that connection. Or try and justify it. It is not about pee and puss and all that stuff it is just something you cannot avoid ever. You can’t get the flu injection and ‘magic’ no menstruation ever… it is just something you are lumbered with until it doesn’t happen anymore.

So in addition to arguing that menstrual blood is just somehow magically different to other bodily discharges (reasoning unspecified), femac has never heard of the contraceptive injection which does, in fact, stop menstruation. Also available in pill and implant form. My girlfriend at the time went on the injection for this very reason. She only had a period every six months and was ecstatic.

Seriously, I can’t stop reading “You can’t get the flu injection…” without facepalmLOLing.

Women also manage to ‘avoid’ menstruating for a variety of other reasons – some medical conditions can disrupt or temporarily cease the menstrual cycle, and disorders such as anorexia can also lead to cessation over time.

For someone so keen to ‘challenge’ everyone about menstruation, femac doesn’t seem to know a huge amount about it.

I also like “fallen to the Communists” but that’s because of that brilliant bit in ‘The IT Crowd’ (“Well they do have some strong arguments”)

… I have literally only just got this.

epitome of incomprehensibility

I know this was a few days ago, but I might have phrased something non-clearly (says someone who calls herself “epitome of incomprehensibility,” but yeah): I didn’t mean to say that circumcision was more hygienic than the alternative. I’m sorry, mrex, if I sounded like I was arguing with you on that point.

About the word “hygiene,” I think we’ve got a problem (in North America, at any rate) with marketers conflating hygiene and cosmetics. In my local drugstore, there are “hygiene” packages that include shaving products and perfume (these are targeted at teenagers, and of course the one for girls is mostly pink).

And while the whole idea of a “who’s dirtier” contest between genders is silly, it makes hygienic sense for people who get periods to clean/change menstrual products regularly. Talking about the situations in India and Nepal isn’t to call people in poorer countries “backwards” or anything, but to point out that not everyone has this luxury. (Is that a fair reading of the discussion?)

katz
katz
5 years ago

So in addition to arguing that menstrual blood is just somehow magically different to other bodily discharges (reasoning unspecified), femac has never heard of the contraceptive injection which does, in fact, stop menstruation. Also available in pill and implant form. My girlfriend at the time went on the injection for this very reason. She only had a period every six months and was ecstatic.

In fairness, everyone reacts differently and some people actually menstruate more heavily after getting the shot.

But then, getting a flu shot also doesn’t prevent you from ever generating snot. (Signed, someone with allergies.)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Flu shots don’t even always prevent you from getting the flu since there are so many strains.

katz
katz
5 years ago

Also available in pill and implant form.

I wanted to get the implant so bad, but it turns out it’s almost impossible to get in the US. Some doctors haven’t even heard of it.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I haven’t heard of the implant. If I could get a medical hysterectomy that would be great.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Also, are applicators really that bad? I’ve always found it somewhat easier to insert the tampon with the applicator than without it.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@ alaisvex

“Also, are applicators really that bad? I’ve always found it somewhat easier to insert the tampon with the applicator than without it.”

Yeah, a lot of people do. I’m in the minority in that I actually prefer to use tampons without applicators because I find it easier to position tampons in just the “right” spot using my fingers. However, I still used Tampax throughout highschool because I didn’t want to get blood all over my fingers and have to wash off my bloody hands in front of everybody like I was stuck in some stupid teen horror movie. 😉 In college I discovered flushable wipes and now I use OBs whenever I use tampons, so yay! 🙂

I just find it so strange for someone who claims to have a vagina and have used Tampax to not realize that you don’t *have* to use the applicator. I’ve been in arguments with MRAs (?) over the necessity allowing female prisoners an adequate amount of pads/tampons to be able to change every couple of hours as needed, and the arguments those morons make against providing feminine hygiene products actually sound a lot like the arguments femac makes, just without the straw-feminist “menstruation is magical” bent.

Or maybe I’m wrong. /shrugs/

@grumpyoldmangina

I just reread your post and saw that you implied that UTIs/RTIs are not that serious. Generally, when these infections are quickly treated or cleared up by the body this is true, however if they are not adequately treated, and become chronic, they can spread and cause a host of problems such as pregnancy loss, kidney damage, cancer, and rarely, sepsis and death. (In fact, believe it or not, UTIs are one of the largest causes of sepsis in the US, and I actually know someone who lost a small child to a UTI decades ago). An existing Reproductive Tract Infection from poor menstrual hygiene can easily lead to puerperal sepsis, which historically was the one of the largest killers of women, and is sadly still is a large killer today in parts of the world.

@ epitome of incomprehensibility

No worries. It’s always good to debate and stretch my arguments out. 🙂

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Yeah, a lot of people do. I’m in the minority in that I actually prefer to use tampons without applicators because I find it easier to position tampons in just the “right” spot using my fingers. However, I still used Tampax throughout highschool because I didn’t want to get blood all over my fingers and have to wash off my bloody hands in front of everybody like I was stuck in some stupid teen horror movie. 😉 In college I discovered flushable wipes and now I use OBs whenever I use tampons, so yay! 🙂

Thanks. I knew that there were definitely some people who preferred not to use the applicator, but I was under the impression that tampons companies who made tampons with applicators did so because so many vagina-havers thought that they were convenient.

I just find it so strange for someone who claims to have a vagina and have used Tampax to not realize that you don’t *have* to use the applicator.

Yeah, you can just pull the tampon out of the applicator with the string.

I’ve been in arguments with MRAs (?) over the necessity allowing female prisoners an adequate amount of pads/tampons to be able to change every couple of hours as needed, and the arguments those morons make against providing feminine hygiene products actually sound a lot like the arguments femac makes, just without the straw-feminist “menstruation is magical” bent.

Is there no level of idiocy to which MRAs won’t sink? Maybe they were trying to defuse female complaints about really heavy flow, cramps, and the whole lot by pretending that menstruation is actually super easy and manageable for all women everywhere?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I can vouch for UTIs being serious. I had one as a toddler that turned into a kidney infection and I almost died. Not from sepsis but because my temperature went up to 107. I’m glad I don’t remember it. They had to give me ice baths.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

UTIs are totally serious. A UTI can go up to the kidneys and cause sepsis. UTIs can become Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID), better known as “Toxic Shock”. Symptoms of chronic UTIs can mask other disorders or make people think “Oh, it’s probably just a UTI again” and not get checked out when they really, really should.

Chronic UTIs also increase the risk of renal failure, which is not something to scoff at.

…um, yeah. Sorry. Missed most of that conversation.

Also calling fie on “menstruation is easy” stuff. I got my last one on my first day of my weekly 4 duty days and it was super obnoxious. Like, I don’t have it half bad, but the underlying cramps, and sanitation, and…

I can still do my job. I can still do my job well enough to not have the guys notice I’m off, but it was not fun.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

I want to try cups, but my periods are sporadic as it is.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

@ femac

Ha ha yes you are the total guru on how I should interpret my bleeding.

I have no shits to give about your period or how you deal with it. If it works for you, it works. I’m talking about the arguments you’re making in this comment thread and the way you’re using words. Which you well know. Because I’ve clarified it 5 times now.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@ alaisvex

“Thanks. I knew that there were definitely some people who preferred not to use the applicator, but I was under the impression that tampons companies who made tampons with applicators did so because so many vagina-havers thought that they were convenient.”

Sounds like it could be right, since a concept like “convenience” is so subjective anyway. I’m actually really curious about the reasoning behind this idea. I tried looking it up, but I just got tampon manufacturers calling their products “convenient”, people bitching that you’ll get blood under your fingernails if you don’t use an applicator (you don’t), or people complaining that there’s not enough options of the style of choice in whatever country they’re in. (My brief googling turned up a lot of opinions that tampons with applicators are most popular, and have the most variety of available brands, in the UK and US, and less popular, and have less variety of brands, in the European continent and Australia). Don’t know how true that is, but it’s interesting to think about. I’m willing to bet, that problems with fit like I have aside, most people find what the first used in high school to be the best and most convenient, because that’that’s what they’re used to.

Looking up attitudes on tampon applicators did lead me to an article on Operation Freebleeding, which is, I guess, /b/’s attempt to discredit feminists by suggesting that feminists are pushing women to “free bleed” all over themselves, or something. Honestly this crap makes me want to hide under my tinfoil hat, inside of my tinfoil box, inside of my tinfoil bunker, because honestly it sounds too stupid even for /b/.

From the linked, year old article;

“As part of its month-long vendetta, 4chan’s prank-loving community /b/ is trying to convince women that feminine hygiene products are a form of oppression and they should not be used. 

It’s called Operation Freebleeding, a “new radical feminist movement.” The goal is to manufacture enough fake social media outrage over the use of sanitary pads that news organizations and feminists fall for it.”

Here’s to having some awesome booze stockpiled for the apocalypse.

“Yeah, you can just pull the tampon out of the applicator with the string.”

I don’t know if I would pull on the string; it’s been awhile since I’ve used a tampon with an applicator. Cardboard applicators come apart super easy, and while the newer plastic ones kinda “lock”, you could pop the tampon through the top, just like what happens inside of your body.

At least the larger Tampax tampons aren’t shaped the best for use with fingers, but they’re still usable. I will use the applicator if I borrow a Tampax from a friend, but I’ve also had the cardboard plunger fall on the floor on me, and I inserted the tampon just fine. That’s actually how I discovered that I like to use my fingers better, I was on my last crushed tampon when I accidentally pulled out the plunger and dropped it on the floor. I was bleeding way too heavily to skip the tampon, so fingers it was. 😉

“Is there no level of idiocy to which MRAs won’t sink? Maybe they were trying to defuse female complaints about really heavy flow, cramps, and the whole lot by pretending that menstruation is actually super easy and manageable for all women everywhere?”

I think these guys just operate in such a zero-sum world that they women getting *anything*, pads, space to talk about periods, whatever, takes “resources” away from them. I saw the same things when some feminists agitated against having taxes on feminine products a few years back. I don’t think it’s female complaining so much as these guys can’t stand the spotlight being on anyone but them.

mildlymagnificent
mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

… people bitching that you’ll get blood under your fingernails if you don’t use an applicator (you don’t) …

You mightn’t get blood under your fingernails, but I certainly used to. Especially during the first 3 days or so. I _always_ checked my nails after changing tampons.

Perhaps it depends on how long your nails are or how they’re shaped?

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

“Perhaps it depends on how long your nails are or how they’re shaped?”

Fair point, everyone’s different. I always dig my finger tips as deep inside the tampon as I can before inserting it, maybe that’s why AFAIK they’ve always been clean?

A Land Whale
A Land Whale
5 years ago

Typical….Misogynists always love to say, “Why did you have to change it? It wasn’t a big deal?”

Well if it wasn’t a big deal, why the fuck are you freaking out over the change?

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