Categories
anti-Semitism antifeminism Dean Esmay dude you've got no fucking idea what you're talking about gaslighting gross incompetence gullibility hate speech imaginary backwards land literal nazis lying liars marital rape misogyny MRA racism rape culture

Leading MRA site A Voice for Men continues to publish a Holocaust denier and marital rape apologist

Some other Holocaust deniers
Some other Holocaust deniers

Last month, I reported that Indian Men’s Rights Activist and marital rape apologist Amartya Talukdar — a regular contributor to leading Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men — was a Holocaust denier.

The evidence? A series of Tweets in which, among other things, he declared that the “Holocaust is a lie of gigantic proportion,” expressed a certain admiration for Hitler and, bizarrely, declared that Hillary Clinton was a “Jewess.”

When I asked AVFM’s then-managing editor Dean Esmay about these troubling Tweets from someone he had published on his site only a few days earlier, he responded … by calling me a “stalker madman” and threatening to call the police if I ever emailed him again. (It was, as far as I recall, the only time I’ve ever emailed him.)

Well, ok, I thought, the folks at AVFM seem to be congenitally unable to ever admit to being wrong, even when the evidence is right before their eyes. But I didn’t think AVFM would be dumb enough to post anything by Talukdar ever again. 

I was wrong. Yesterday, AVFM put up a new post by him. No, it contains no Holocaust denial or defenses of Hitler. But the question remains: why is AVFM continuing to post the writings of a Holocaust denier even after being presented with irrefutable evidence of his noxious beliefs? 

The answer may be that the folks at AVFM live so completely in their own little bubble that they cannot see the evidence right in front of them.

In my email to Esmay, I not only provided a link to my post on Talukdar’s Holocaust denial but also provided direct links to archived copies of four of his most troubling Tweets. Esmay didn’t have to take my word for anything or even look at my post. All AVFM’s “managing editor” had to do was to click four links and read four tweets in order to see the sort of vile nonsense Talukdar had been tweeting. 

It’s not clear if Esmay was able to bring himself to do even this much due diligence of a writer he was responsible for publishing. 

Instead, as I discovered when looking back through Talukdar’s tweets today, Esmay’s “investigation” of the matter may have consisted of nothing more than this brief Twitter exchange, in which Talukdar, using a technique popular amongst small children and liars of all ages, simply told Esmay what he wanted to hear:

esmayinvestigates

Talukdar took a similar tack with me, though he took a little more time in getting to the “telling me what I wanted to hear” part. Here’s just one of the rather surreal exchanges I had with him on Twitter (click here for more context).

David Futrelle ‏@DavidFutrelle @a_talukdar If you think Hitler was a hate monger, which of course he was, why did you tweet taluk2

I got no reply to this last question, but I guess I shouldn’t complain; Talukdar also offered no response, at least not on Twitter, to Esmay’s questions on whether or not his remarks had been “taken out of context” or whether he had been “making intemperate remarks you did not mean perhaps?”

I’m not sure in what circumstances saying that the “Holocaust is a lie of gigantic proportion,” or calling Hillary Clinton “a “Jewess” could be dismissed as nothing more than “intemperate remarks” made in the heat of passion; that would be akin to excusing Mel Gibson’s famous rant on how “the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world” as just one of those things people say when they’re pulled over for drunk driving.

But I can help Esmay out with the whole “context” thing. Here are some of Talukdar’s Tweets in their original context on Twitter. (Click on the screencaps below to see archived versions of the Tweets.)

talukhololie

Huh. Somehow that doesn’t seem any better in context.

talukmerke

That’s just as bad.

talukhillary

Not only anti-Semitic, but we’re in tinfoil hat territory now.

talukhail

Dude, “hail Hitler” is not the preferred nomenclature. It’s “heil.”

As far as I can tell, Talukdar has never apologized for or even directly acknowledged his Holocaust-denying Tweets; he’s content to pretend they never happened, as is, evidently, Dean Esmay.

Weirdly, Talukdar’s attempts to cover up his Holocaust denial have been as cursory as Esmay’s quarter-assed “investigation.” Not long after I posted about him, Talukdar tried to clean up his Twitter timeline by deleting the offending Tweets. But he didn’t get them all.

Indeed, when I searched Twitter for his handle and the word “holocaust” today, I found three of his Holocaust-denial Tweets still up, lurking at the bottom of the search results. (I’ve archived the search results, as well as the individual tweets (1, 2, 3), in case he goes back and deletes them today.)

On his Twitter page, Talukdar describes himself as, among other things, a “Humanist.” A Voice for Men describes itself as the voice of the “Men’s Human Rights Movement.”

So I have to wonder: Do Talukdar and his editors think those killed in the Holocaust were somehow less than human?

H/T — Talukdar himself, who Tweeted me about his latest AVFM post

EDIT: Proofreading correction, minor tweak, added the H/T

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

145 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Yes Artistically
Yes Artistically
5 years ago

@David, could you perhaps take a screenshot of the tweet where Esmay says he’s been raped?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@David, could you perhaps take a screenshot of the tweet where Esmay says he’s been raped?

WTF for??

@Bazia

You don’t have to offend people to harm them. I am rarely offended, but I am nevertheless harmed when folks conflate madness with ragey misogynist entitlement.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

All Tweets and no replies makes Dean a dull boy.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Regarding IQ tests – I read a SF story yeeears ago, about an advanced civilization contacting Earth and offering them membership in the Galactic Gargleblaster Club, if they can prove that they (we) are sentient/sapient. Humanity’s best test taker, a man of immense intellectual pride is dispatched for testing. He bombs utterly, as the tests the aliens use do not test visual or linguistic aptitude, but factors dictated by their own culture and physiology.

Regarding collaboration in France during the Occupation, it has come to light that Gertrude Stein and Alice Toklas were sheltered from deportation by a great good friend of theirs who wound up working in Paris for the Germans. They had no problem with the Occupation, apparently, as long as it didn’t interfere with their own lives. Meanwhile, their buddy in Paris was sending all the Freemasons he could find to the camps. Stein attempted to intercede on his behalf after the war. Strange how many Modernist artists and writers in the pre-WWII period were various flavors of right-wing.

Bazia
Bazia
5 years ago

Wait wait wait, Robert. Yes, they were sheltered from death by a person who respected Stein as a writer.No, It’s wrong to say they did not care about the plight of others under the occupation. Yes, Stein tried to save her old friend after the war, pointing out that he had saved her, a Jew. for instance. She was not right-wing, Robert, not at all. She hated the Nazis.

chronically lurking
chronically lurking
5 years ago

If women on average have a slightly higher IQ AND there are slightly more men in high IQ groups, as assorted studies with all the flaws of the IQ test itself have shown, and we’re being Internet dude brand Rational and pedantically using IQ as a measure of job adeptness and intelligence…doesn’t it actually make sense to prefer *women*?

High IQ individuals are by definition 1% of the population – and that’s not all geniuses, who IIRC are something like 0.1% of the population.

As somebody hiring in a crowded field, you’re not going to get one, basically. Better prefer the gender that is on average more intelligent to maximize your workplace average IQ, rather than playing the risky male field in hopes of catching unicorns!

Sarcasm, of course. And having been labeled “gifted” as a kid myself, in the process knowing a few extremely intelligent people 3/4 of the way between whatever they call me and genius, high intelligence is actually a negative trait to have for most non-specialist/acadenic jobs. With high intelligence comes high levels of boring task intolerance.

I’ve even seen that Wonderlic (IQ basically) employment test. Employers who use it will get back a report that red flags those who score higher than “necessary” for a given job just as much as those who score lower.

That, and keeping in mind intelligence != good at this specific task, tolerable to work with, having overcome intrinsic cognitive biases that can often be magnified by a “faster” brain, etc.

And that the nature of IQ tests and poverty often keeps many intelligent children from getting the academic stimulation they deserve so, so much more than Bobby-whose-rich-mother-made-him-cram-IQ-tests. (The state of gifted identification and education in certain big cities is truly lamentable, but that’s a story for another day.)

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

The Second Sex is the book which has had the most influence on my life and beliefs. I would be more critical of de Beauvoir’s behavior if I could convince myself that I would have been thoroughly courageous in the face of Nazi brutality.

We have been over the issue of IQ tests many times but I always feel it bears repeating; One of my professors in freshman psychology class at Harvard quipped that IQ is “that which is measured by IQ tests.” The tests were originally designed to identify children with low intelligence so that they could receive special attention. The idea that you can (1) accurately measure all the different aspects of human intelligence and then (2) express the result as a single integer value is bizarre and ludicrous. (As one of the “winners” in the IQ game, I’ve always felt a special obligation to point out how severely flawed they are as a measure of human potential.)
I have read that there have been times when preliminary testing of a new IQ test has resulted in females scoring higher than males, which has been “fixed” by increasing the number of spatial-skill questions and decreasing the number of verbal-skill questions. And, as to the spatial vs verbal issue, I would argue that girls are traditionally encouraged to play social games which develop verbal skills whereas boys are traditionally encouraged to play games on fields with balls and such that develop spatial skills — and I defy anyone to prove that that doesn’t have some influence on IQ scores. I’ll mention POM’s example of being good at spatial manipulations due to being taught woodworking and having an interest in astronomy. The fact is, you can manipulate IQ tests to get just about gender-based result you want, and since most tests are designed by men …
Of course I majored in English and my wife majored in Physics, so we found it fairly difficult to pass the gender stereotypes on to our children — all four of whom (two of each sex) have majored in STEM fields. Considering the extent to which our society is dependent on STEM, not having a penis should not be a disqualification.

artsmyth
artsmyth
5 years ago

Robert: You’re not thinking of A.E. van Vogt’s “A Can of Paint” are you?

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Who is Dean talking to?
Dean does know he’s the only one saying the racist stuff he’s saying, right?
Does he think he’s convincing people someone else said the stuff he is saying?
Has he convinced himself?
The Mary Sue is hateful?
Macho feminist whaaaa?

Today one of my kids pretended that his favorite stuffed animal traveled to a planet where everyone was a fence to challenge them to a game of chess*. That made more sense than Deans tweets.

*Too much Doctor Who?

Yes Artistically
Yes Artistically
5 years ago

@Policy of Madness

I think you misunderstood my comment. The reason I am asking is because AVFM often lie about stuff they have posted earlier and sometimes even delete it. It was just to have it as a proof, just in case. Especially because they are known for not really being nice to rape victims. Is that weird..?

Hypatia
Hypatia
5 years ago

@chronically lurking and @GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina,

yes, you have presented good arguments. But of course, it’s much easier just to say that men are smarter and more creative and be done with it. Lol.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

@Hypatia: easier, and more likely to deprive someone who might have made a major contribution of the opp0ortunity because uterus

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

How adorable of Deano to project all the racist stereotypes MRAs hold dear for trying to shut up feminists…onto feminists. Deano, in case you’re reading this: Next time you’re tempted to tell one of us to shut up because Women Over There Have It Worse Than You, Cupcake — just shut the fuck up, yourself.

Cupcake.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Yes Artistically

I thought it was fairly well known that Dean Esmay was sexually victimized as a child. It’s hardly a secret that needs to be documented before it falls into the bit bucket.

DonVoyage
5 years ago

So basically Esmay is just a less funny version of Jeff Dunham now?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Jeff Dunham was funny?

Binjabreel
5 years ago

I’ll say what an old professor once told me:

“We know iq tests are measuring something, but we have no idea what it is.”

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

@Binjabreel: the ironic part of my professor’s comment was that this was a survey course with a number of different lecturers, and another guy who gave a couple of the lectures was Richard Herrnstein, a disciple of the recently-retired B. F. Skinner, who became most famous as the co-author of the racist book “The Bell Curve” which claimed to prove the intellectual inferiority of non-whites based on ridiculously small (and probably culturally produced) differences in scores on standardized intelligence tests.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

Oh, for WHTM regulars: At another site (political) that I also haunt, someone has just posted a comment claiming that blacks are carrying on a guerilla war against whites, and citing Roissy’s uber-racist rant on Chateau Heartiste as his proof.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago
History Nerd
5 years ago

The French Left has historically had a, shall we say, problematic position on age of consent laws and the lengths it could take sexual libertinism to.

In any case, age of consent laws were introduced in many Western countries in the late 19th century through the efforts of feminists and child welfare advocates. Even though there was a certain level of hysteria about sex, people recognized that there were huge power imbalance issues when older men had sex with teenage girls. The reactionaries and Manosphereans seem to be the only people nowadays who think we should lower the age of consent to 10-12.

History Nerd
5 years ago

I forgot that “hysteria” is a slur. I’m sorry.

2-D Man
2-D Man
5 years ago

Re IQ tests

I saw a comment one a blog once that went something like:

IQ tests consist of questions that can be solved without external research, by a single person, in a short amount of time, and have a clearly defined right or wrong answer. Real world problems share none of these qualities.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

The French Left has historically had a, shall we say, problematic position on age of consent laws and the lengths it could take sexual libertinism to.

Historically and indeed presently. Dominique Strauss-Kahn would very likely be the French President today if he hadn’t attempted to assert his attitude concerning sexual libertinism towards a New York chambermaid four years ago – the fallout from which revealed that he genuinely seemed to think that this behaviour was perfectly normal.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

“Jonathan Wai found that among female Fortune 500 CEOs, the frequency of giftedness was even higher, an astonishing 59%. If 59% have IQ’s of 128+, then, assuming a Gaussian distribution with an SD of 15, that implies that the average female elite CEO is brilliant, with an IQ of 131.”

re: IQ & IQ tests: As a child, I apparently tested in the mid-130s.

This correlates well with the fact that I am (was) good at taking IQ tests.
It does not correlate too terribly well with academic achievement / adult professional success :p

I also apparently rocked the spatial portions of both that testing (it was a multi-day process) and US military entrance exams, and yet here I am…a hausfrau.

CHECKMATE MRAs! /s

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

I also apparently can’t make a post from my phone without getting tackled by the Blockquote Mammoth.

HA HA! I’VE TAKEN YOUR KING, MRAs!
*flips board*
/s

Also, my husband is teaching me chess.

Well, he was.

I keep winning.

This might particularly sting him because I don’t actually have any idea what I’m doing. I just play defensively and wait for him to not notice that he put his Knight or whatever in the line of my Bishop, then wham. Repeat with different pieces until he only has a King and several Pawns left, then circle around and take his King.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

That, and keeping in mind intelligence != good at this specific task, tolerable to work with, having overcome intrinsic cognitive biases that can often be magnified by a “faster” brain, etc.

^This, especially that last part. Some people who score high on IQ tests make the mistake of thinkng that their opinions are correct by virtue of being “smarter” than everyone else. You see that all the time in manosphere writing: the big vocabulary words, the condescension, the faux-scientific tone – yet none of what they write makes a lick of sense. They lay down a bunch of unsupported assertions and fallacies that contradict one another, and expect the rest of the world to accept it as authoritative because they’re STEM-gifted. IQ tests measure the individual pieces, but they don’t measure the ability to put it all together and think holistically.

PoM – re: the brick test, those are pretty good! The wilder and more diverse the usages, the better. They don’t all have to be realistic or practical. Doorstop, paperweight, boat anchor, toilet tank water displacer, hole filler, burglar deterrent (conk them on the head with it), crumble up and draw with it, play rugby on the moon with it, dress it up and put on a puppet show, recreate Galileo’s gravity experiments, high tide marker, martial arts demonstration, build a house, prop up a bookshelf, worst Valentine’s Day gift ever, pie weight for very large pie…well, you get the idea.

I bet we could devise a totally culturally biased IQ test that would prove Mammotheers are much more intelligent than everyone else.

KATIE is to CHAD as SPINSTER is to

a. the White House
b. the gym
c. living DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH
d. cats

Amber is an HB 7.25 who will be hitting the wall in three months when she turns 25. Her SMV is currently 125 but will go down 16% when the next quarterly earnings report comes out. Exactly how many fucks does Amber give?

a. A lot
b. Zero
c. Minus one
d. Negative a million

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

…is it bad that I’m actually stuck on the first question POM gave? X_X I’m smart, I promise.

Also, quick job hunting question that would involve analytical thinking so here’s a test for you guys. I have two decent jobs on the books that look promising. One I’ve taken the first interview for, don’t know if I’ll get to the second stage (out of 2) but I feel confident. That job is minimum wage, low hours on the contract but also flexible to full time work. Second job is in the hands of the recruitment agency I’m with, they’re waiting for the vacancy to be official, I haven’t even applied let alone taken any interviews. That job has much better pay plus commission bonuses, with a respectable company in a niche market that could wind up giving me some valuable skills for future jobs. In a hypothetical situation – IF I get offered the minimum wage job (which isn’t perfect but I would take it with no other option), should I turn it down in hopes of getting a better job like the one I mentioned?

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

*Buttercup gave the question, not POM. I’M STILL SMART OKAY? :p

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

My opinion? A job which you haven’t applied for is a job which you shouldn’t turn anything down for.

If the best happens and you get the nice job, you can just walk out of your new minimum wage job to go on to the good job. However in the case that you don’t end up getting it, you at least have something to pay the bills.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Thank you EJ for your wisdom. I guess I just feel bad about the prospect of starting a job then walking out after a couple months or less, so I was thinking more black and white. But you’re right, at the end of the day my bank balance takes precedence here.

DonVoyage
5 years ago

I suppose i should say more unfunny, then.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

To be fair, for a minimum wage job it’s a good minimum wage job. Certainly a fun environment from what I’ve gathered already. My family are against it because “it wouldn’t look good on your CV” but it would look better than a gap, I can tell you that.

Bernardo Soares
Bernardo Soares
5 years ago

@sunnysombrera
If it helps: at minimum wage and low hours, you don’t owe them anything. It isn’t often in our economy that we have the possibility to choose – that kind of flexibility is usually relegated to the employer.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@sunnysombrera

Believe me that your employer will feel no obligations toward your welfare. Don’t feel like you have any obligations toward an employer’s welfare. The two of you are parties in a business arrangement in which the employer has far more power and a far greater opportunity to profit than the employee. Make sure you keep that in mind.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

What Bernardo Soares said.

Remember that unless you’re applying for a specialised white-collar profession, having gaps on your CV filled with odds and ends of work won’t hold you back. If anything, it makes you look like the sort of person who dislikes just sitting around. A few years of it may hurt your chances, but don’t be afraid to do it now and again if you need to.

And yes, don’t be afraid to walk out. If it’s a flexible-hours type job you can normally just end it with almost no notice.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@EJ
Thanks. I spent three years at my last job, before that was 8 months of internship and before that was university, with a couple summer jobs in between semesters. My CV has zero gaps until now that have no explanation other than further education. So far so good. I guess one low wage job won’t hurt while I’m trying to get into something like recruitment or PR.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Oh, for WHTM regulars: At another site (political) that I also haunt, someone has just posted a comment claiming that blacks are carrying on a guerilla war against whites, and citing Roissy’s uber-racist rant on Chateau Heartiste as his proof.

http://rockylouproductions.com/blog_wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Seriously.gif

Falconer
5 years ago

That hair is glorious. I feel like I should know what that gif is from, but I’m blowed if I can recall.

Philip Rose
Philip Rose
5 years ago

I’m sure they’ll get their token Jew right on handling the damage control.

autosoma
5 years ago

@buttercup… Sorry but you looking at Amber’s SMV from the wrong perspective. As far as I can see there are a number of vehicles that can be derived from Amber’s SMV.
First there is the premium which is the next three years of dividends based on the annual reduction of 16% y-o-y at that point the tranche of her SMV will be approaching 50% of current market return. With this point we can approach institutional investors with a mezzanine product pitched at 5-15 years of roi of today’s market value reduced by 50%. This SMV vehicle with inbuilt Synthetic Collateral Obligations will give long term institutional investors a sense if security even though the is the continuing risk devaluation as the SCO’s artificially inflate Amber’s long term net sexual return.

At this point, we can take the instructional investors vehicle an repackage it as a synthetic derived derivative bundled with options and futures.

Thus as you can see from our extended portfolio data on in section 7a of Amber’s Investment Brochure our derived artificial Amber performs exceptionally well in long market.

As a recommendation I would also suggest shorting Ambers SMV and spinning off a number of derivatives of Amber’s SMV. These individual derivatives can be rolled up in to multiparty obligations based on each the derivatives that can be hedged on the up/down trend of that particular derivative depending on its respective markets fluctuations and the reaction of market forces.

We have also pegged Amber’s collateralized return over the long term to a synthetic bond 50 year yield.

So I am confident that by adding Amber to you overall Asset portfolio you will see greater returns over the lifetime resulting in a 350% increase at the maturity point based on Today’s SMV.

I assure you Amber’s present SMV offers no present ir future risks and will give you exceptional long returns.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

@Autosoma: You’d make a great con-man … er, sorry, I meant financial adviser.

If anyone is interested, he’s describing what caused the meltdown of 2007. Financial instruments to complicated to understand. People thought they were eliminating risk when they were actually shifting it to someone else who might well go broke when the excrement hit the ventilator — which is exactly what happened.

autosoma
5 years ago

@grump… Thanks for your vote of “con”-fidence in my asset risk “skills” I’m having a job interview soon where I have to display my Domain knowledge, I reckon if I can spin PUA SMV twaddle into something that sounds credible… I’m half way there.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

@autosoma that made my head spin, so I’d say you’re as good as hired 🙂

@sunnysombrero* I don’t know what sorts of jobs you’ll be applying to in future, but you can always present a more skills-focused resume if you’re worried about the impression the min-wage job makes? I say this as someone with some… interesting jobs in my past. Had to get creative with ‘transferrable skills’ and resume presentation.

*I am 99% sure I’ve screwed up your nym – my apologies, your post is a page back or I’d check