Prominent MRA tries to blame Charleston shooting on feminism and its alleged “lies about rape culture.”

….seriously, why does it never occur to MRAs that women and gay people also struggle in the dating world, and that having trouble dating at 21 isnt oppression? like uh Maybe being murdered for being black is actual oppression?! & this murder isnt about how oppressed men are?!

@KL

“….seriously, why does it never occur to MRAs that women and gay people also struggle in the dating world, and that having trouble dating at 21 isn’t oppression? like uh Maybe being murdered for being black is actual oppression?! & this murder isnt about how oppressed men are?!”

It does occur to them. Everybody struggles. But aren’t you being obtuse here? Obviously, countless men will tell you that if they don’t risk socially, read women’s minds, and do the miserable song and dance that seems to be required of them, they won’t date at all. And when they attempt to do that dance or figure out how to do it, all they get are contradictory messages as to what women are expecting them. If they just listen to what women say they want, they find themselves ignored, resented, used, and so on. That is the exact scenario that countless men experience independently of one another.

Everybody struggles, but our roles obviously aren’t equivalent. No guy can make some online dating profile and screen applicants like an employer at the height of the great depression, now can he? So what you’re saying here is “well employers struggle to find good help that is affordable!” I’m sorry, but I don’t really feel that bad for employers. I feel bad for the people interviewing for the job, since the power dynamic clearly is not in their favor.

Would we say that beauty standards aren’t oppression? I’m pretty sure I can find no shortage of feminists who would disagree.

Since we can see obviously that women factor in men’s financial, professional, and social success on top of expecting them to initiate relationships the majority of the time, this suggests that there is a political and economic consequence to women’s expectations which isn’t true for men’s expectations. Men aren’t throwing women away and rendering them invisible because they don’t make enough money or have sufficient education. If you’re having trouble as a woman, watch what you eat, be more receptive, try to hide the fact that you’re crazy, etc. – all of those things are within your control. But what does the guy do in a failing economy? Overthrow the government?

And none of this is even related to the topic of the blog post. Somebody else brought up something unrelated which was posted elsewhere.

@policy of madness

And you have no idea what my race is.

aw its cute when trolls think Im gonna have a conversation with them. Nah dude just pointing out your ridiculousness. If you wanna keep begging for an intellectual beatdown I guess youll have to harass someone else.

because a man not getting laid is women’s fault, but women not getting laid is also women’s fault, and gay people dont exist.

“But hey, know what this racist hate crime wherein elder black women and men were murdered at churcj really makes me think about? My white dick.”

Divided Line | June 19, 2015 at 2:54 pm
@weirwoodtreehugger

First of all, claiming that we’re talking about “sex” is a way of dehumanizing men generally and people who disagree with you. When a guy says “I can’t get laid,” what he is actually saying is “I’m afraid I’ll never experience love, have a wife and family, experience relationships and intimacy,” or he’s saying “I’m afraid I’m unattractive to women.”

Or he’s just lamenting he hasn’t had sex in a while. You don’t speak for every man out there, fer fuck’s sake.

And I fail to see how saying that “average males” are only talking about sex is “dehumanizing” them.

You know what’s “dehumanizing”? Being considered as nothing more than a pretty little sex toy for these men to fuck.

It’s not really a conversation about “sex,” it’s really a conversation about things which are basic to emotional and psychological well being of bother genders. Men have no other language to talk about such things, and typically, people like yourself work hard to deny them that language.

Oh fuck you.

Feminism is all about trying to give men better access to mental health and getting them to talk about their emotions, something that MRAs don’t seem to give two shits about.

You want someone to blame for men not having the “language” to talk about sex? Blame other men. Y’all are so concerned about looking “feminine” and being “macho” that you refuse to find other language. Stop blaming feminism for other men’s bullshit.

Secondly, sexual or romantic relationships are not “basic to emotional and psychological well being of bother [sic] genders”. There are aromantic and asexual people of all genders (because there’s more than two, dipstick).

Second, the male suicide rate is 3 times that of women

I don’t know how we went from “men need to get their boners wet because biology!” to “men commit suicide more often!”, but alright then.

That’s because men tend to go for big, flashy suicides that are more effective (i.e. shooting themselves in the head), whereas women tend to go for quieter suicides that don’t always work (i.e. pill overdose).

However, women are more likely to attempt suicide, but men are more likely to succeed at it.

So, when women fail to die from their attempt, it goes from “committed suicide” to “attempted suicide”.

and we know there is an increased risk of male suicide after divorces, 70% of which are initiated by women.

Well, considering that there are usually many more negative factors of a divorce than just the divorce itself (poverty, unemployment, disability), I can believe that men have a greater risk of suicide post-divorce. Especially when you factor in the family breaking apart because of it.

However, there’s a solution to that: help men get someone to talk to about the divorce and their feelings on the subject. Getting men mental health is a good start to helping stem the tides of suicide in the wake of divorce.

As for the women initiating the divorce, here’s a good chance that most of those divorces initiated by women were due to abuse or other irrational behaviors on the husband’s part.

We also know that suicides increase during recessions and economic downturns. We further know married men out earn women and unmarried men. So put the pieces of the puzzle together. I guess men face a real risk of being weeded out of this aspect of social life because the strong independent women don’t particularly have much interest in men who are underemployed, unemployed, and so on.

Citation needed.

It’s pretty clear that women create the social landscape in which men experience gender. It’s an open question as to if masculinity ever even belonged to men to define or redefine.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. You’re funny.

Masculinity has always been defined by men Always. Women have never had a say in that. Hell, women have never had a say in their gender either, because men dictate to women what they should be! (Sexy, chaste, skinny, willing to fuck, not willing to fuck, compliant, house wives, etc.)

So, sorry, the roles are flipped here.

Men don’t get to decide what women want and expect and their entire lives are typically spent trying to qualify for women.

No, men don’t get to decide what women want and expect. And women don’t get to dictate what men want and expect.

The only exception to this rule is if it causes harm or discomfort to another person. Men can’t expect me to be anorexic, and I can’t expect (and don’t, honestly) men to be macho manly-men who bottle all their feelings until they explode.

That is in fact why they work more hours, why they subordinate their career choices to making money, it is why 90% of workplace injuries and deaths are attributable to men. It’s because women impose a set of gendered expectations on them, a male gender role that they never even asked for in the first place.

What?

Men have more workplace deaths because they take more risks. It’s also one reason why their life expectancy is shorter.

Another reason is that a lot of the jobs where you can get injured and/or killed on the job is because they actively bar women from participating in them.

It’s not because women force men to go into these jobs and die for us. This is as stupid as that argument about the draft that you daft dudes like to trot out every now and again.

The idea that the male suicide rate being triple that of women isn’t a gender issue is, quite frankly, absurd.

I actually agree here. Though, like I said, it’s due to social conditioning based on gender that men tend to go for methods that tend to work more than women do.

And since gender is a two way street and our identities are really adopted when we experience the opposite sex’s expectations of us, it’s equally absurd to think that women’s expectations of the opposite sex wouldn’t contribute to that statistic. It would be just as ridiculous to assume that male preferences for women’s physical beauty wouldn’t contribute to women’s eating disorders and self esteem issues.

One, more than one gender, bucko.

Two, I’m calling false equivalence here. I fail to see how women’s supposed expectations of men are as harmful as “fuck me or else” that I hear all the time from men.

You said it yourself, men’s preferences for women’s physical beauty contribute to eating disorders (which can kill you, bee-tee-dubs) and self-esteem issues. They also contribute to women being kept down as a whole. It’s a means of keeping us “in line”.

The cognitive dissonance must be unreal. It must be difficult to on the one hand pretend that you care about equality and justice on the one hand and then to on the other find so many elaborate excuses to deny.

Yup. All wimmens’ fault that men can’t talk about their feelings and can’t get laid and die so much. You’ve made me see the light. [/sarcasm]

That’s all from me. It’s no fun talking to an ideological wall. Throw your little outraged, bigoted lynch mob party. I won’t be attending today.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I’m seconding Snuffy. You did this on the Grace Mann thread too, making another tragedy about your boner because we didn’t pay as much attention to teh menz and their sad little boner feels.

Fuck off with your boner. Fuck off with your racial insensitivity. Fuck off with your male tears. No one here cares.

– Person tells Troll they do not wish to converse with them
– Troll continues to address Person directly.

– White man kills mostly black women
– Troll wants to talk about his white penis.
cute.

Fuck you blockquote mammoth. I can’t concentrate on your damn tags when I’m responding to a novella-length teal deer about male tears and penises.

Also, Divided Brain didn’t stick their flounce.

-3/10.

Do you think the Klan would have lynched a white boy who whistled at a woman?

That might give some insight as to their motives.

Also, Divided Brain didn’t stick their flounce.

They never do. I’m starting to believe that Divided Line is like that guy who kept moaning about what unregulated drugs had done to his cock every couple of days, namely that making people online read about his sad boner actually makes his boner happy.