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Red Pill Redditors now straight-up advocating Nazi policies on women. As in “what literal Hitler literally did.”

Red Pill dream girl
Red Pill dream girl

Anyone who’s paid much attention to the growth of the “Red Pill” ideology in the manosphere is aware that many of the most fervent Red Pillers not only lean right politically, they lean so far right that they more or less look like this:

(The cat's right, not yours.)
(The cat’s right, not yours.)

Only much less cute.

Well, now the Red Pillers on Reddit are just straight-up advocating Hitler’s policies on women during the Third Reich. Not just advocating traditionalist policies similar to what Hitler did. Literally saying that Germany today should literally adopt literal Hitler’s literal “solution” to the Woman Problem. 

In a discussion of what the Red Pillers see as a disastrous drop in the birth rate in Germany, one commenter suggested that “Germany knows what it has to do, and Germany has demonstrated it is capable of doing it with cold, calculated German efficiency.”

He linked to a Wikipedia page on “Women in Nazi Germany,” which noted that

Women in the Third Reich lived within a regime characterized by a policy of confining women in the roles of mother and spouse and excluding them from all positions of responsibility, notably in the political and academic spheres.

Other Red Pillers thought this sounded fine and dandy, upvoting his comments and adding their own thoughts:

[–]Piroko 17 points 12 hours ago  Germany knows what it has to do, and Germany has demonstrated it is capable of doing it with cold, calculated German efficiency.  The question is, will they?  permalinkembedsavereportgive gold [–]HAMMURABl 31 points 12 hours ago*  Trust me, Germany 2015 is like the opposite of Germany 1935. As op said, todays germany will push for more women working and more immigrants to counter the ever declining birth rate.  The causal thinking of "more women working" » "less babies" can MAYBE be seen by the average german, but solutions of sort "women staying more at home would solve the demographic catastrophe" are completely anathema to him.  Its like the germans cant find a stable midpoint, they have to go from one extreme to the other.  permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive gold [–]BloodyPhallus 16 points 11 hours ago  I'm fascinated by what will happen in Germany. Will another leader arise to take back the country, or will it become a nation of towelhead nutjobs? Eighty years from a proud German people to a weak, castrated German people, will there be a German people in another eighty years?

In case anyone is wondering, Piroko also

Apparently, to paraphrase an old WWII propaganda poster encouraging carpooling, when you post in the Red Pill subreddit, you post with Hitler. 

H/T — r/thebluepill

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Binjabreel
6 years ago

Most of the damage Germany did to other countries in the EU was in the form of pushing for hard austerity measures in Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece.

They’ve been diasterous. Austerity measures are a fucking lie.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

“Germany knows what it has to do, and Germany has demonstrated it is capable of doing it with cold, calculated German efficiency.”

Ahem. Speaking as an ethnic German, and the daughter of two German immigrants who lived through that war (and as a granddaughter of two German men who were conscripted by the Waffen-SS and the Kriegsmarine during it), I have just one thing to say to this Scheißhammel:

LECK MICH AM ARSCH, DU VERDAMMTER NAZI-MISTBOCK.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

New MRA hero? It’s still early and just making a speculation, but apparently the assailant took issue with the police taking his child.
http://gawker.com/dallas-police-in-standoff-with-gunman-outside-headquart-1711092662

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Golly gosh. How surprised am I!

The husband I divorced back in the 70s was very proud of his family’s German heritage. Proud enough to tell me that Hitler had the right idea about women. He thought Kinder, Küche, Kirche, sounded just fine and dandy and i’d be better off if I agreed with that.

The fact that he was a lazy drunkard who’d no more be able to support a child, let alone a non-working wife, than a feather can support a horse never really occurred to him. All he was really interested in, you may be shocked to hear, was controlling whether I had any money, what I did, when I did it and, hopefully, wasn’t keen on doing by my own volition. And he was willing to use his fists to make his point.

If the Men’s Reich Movement had been around back then, he’d have been an enthusiastic devotee. (Though I couldn’t see him giving any money to anyone, including Paulie, when there was still booze to bought at the pub.)

Bernardo Soares
Bernardo Soares
6 years ago

@Bina: let me be the first to congratulate you on your mastery of your mother tongue. German is a beautiful language, especially for… certain occasions.

@Ezzie: I just realised that we all seem hellbent on making the “ish” in your being okay(-ish) bigger, sorry. But then that’s also a very German characteristic…

AltoFronto
AltoFronto
6 years ago

@kakanian – I remember spotting a piece in the newspaper about 3 years ago, about a survey that found 60% of Austrians would be willing to vote for a Nazi party, and feeling utterly appalled.
Dunno how accurately the survey reflects the entire electorate, but Austria’s always been pretty right-wing, apparently.

Our Dark Lord, Sir Christopher Lee did not spend the 1940s hunting Nazis for the allies, just for them to pop up all over the fucking place as soon as there’s an economic downturn, Goddammit!

reymohammed
reymohammed
6 years ago

Well, surprise.

benegesseritbitch
benegesseritbitch
6 years ago

My half-German ass wants to punch them in the effin’ face. Whenever anyone invokes Nazism as a logical way to conduct a society on any level, my rage goes from 0 to 60 in under a millisecond. My Dad was a kid during WWII and I’ve heard about what it was like there during that time and I do NOT stomach ignorant right-wing American f***s waxing philosophical about something they know nothing, NOTHING about. Not much more I can say about this without my brain melting in anger.

onlyconnect1
6 years ago

Being a german woman living in Germany, I see that when it comes to motherhood, this whole idea of Germany being quite the opposite to what it was in 1935 is not true. One of the reasons why women don’t have kids – or only one child – is the immense expectancy to how a mother should be. It actually comes from the mother image that was formed by Nazis: a mother would define herself through her kids only, would sacrifice herself for her kids, would be nothing else than a 100 per cent mom, and so on. Society still expects mothers to stay at home or work part-time only. Working full time while having kids is regarded as something very problematic, leading to poorly raised children with psychological issues. And that simply makes many women think they just can’t live up to that image. So, the irony of the whole thing is: a very conservative role model causes a low birth rate.

It’s not the only reason of course: childcare is mostly only available in the forenoon, and not during school holidays (so there is none for 12 weeks in the year).

rick
rick
6 years ago

re: Aunt Edna

Of course, the Germans are no more “cold”, “calculating” or “efficient” than the French. Both nation states have diverse populations, and the stereotypes are often exclusionary. Regarding social policy, both Germany and France have progressive positions on a lot of things, but ugly ones on others (Islamaphobia?).

Asterose
Asterose
6 years ago

So much learnings and updates about European (and a side of South American) culture and current goings-ons, thank you everyone! Some of it was new to me, some of it was more depth on issues I’d seen hinted at elsewhere. Taking down racists and misogynists is always even better when it comes with a bonus of new information.

@ Miss Andry, Hoosier, Luzbelitx, Bernardo Soares: So many great new literally-Nazi shamings portmaneus in this thread, thanks to all of you! I’m definitely using them from now on too. “Machofascho”/”machofascist” is even more refreshing and works for the ones who are less overtly, well, Nazi.
…And now I’ve just thought of “machogestapo,” it sounds wonderfully silly yet accurate for how they talk to and want to treat people who don’t agree with their gender beliefs.

opium4themasses
6 years ago

Holy shit. I haven’t read up if anyone else saw this but a guy shot up Dallas Police Headquarters because of a custody issue.

I just move to Dallas 7/8 months ago.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20150613-standoff-follows-dallas-police-headquarters-attack-as-bomb-squad-destroys-explosives.ece

Dunno about MRA ties but I would not be surprised.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I just posted about that too. I don’t know if he was an MRA. It’s more likely he was one of those right wing militia types IMHO, but I’m guessing the MRAs are going to step in and blame gynocentric courts for this poor man snapping or some such crap.

History Nerd
6 years ago

Heinlein was a conservative libertarian in the 1950’s and wasn’t afraid of voicing more extreme views of the kinda-sorta-maybe fascist social Darwinist variety. A lot of libertarianism is considerably more watered down now except for guys like Stefan Molyneux (and if you actually read Murray Rothbard’s books). The Forever War by Joe Haldeman is a good Military SF response to Starship Troopers.

In terms of Nazi social policies, a welfare state that gives nearly equal support to everyone (better access to health care and education, etc.) tends to make women less dependent on men even in traditionally patriarchal societies. In particular, women have more of a choice in whom they have relationships with and domineering men with lots of money have a more difficult time coercing women into relationships (Roosh would say men need to use “clown game” in this situation). The Nazis “fixed” this by creating programs that subsidize breeding by “racially pure” couples. Another method is to ensure that women don’t have access to good social services.

zennurse
zennurse
6 years ago

The guy in Dallas has had multiple issues with DV, custody was taken away from both parents and he has a history of making threats on social media about the custody issue. both parents were ordered to pay child support. I’ve been following closely on Twitter since early am and although the conversation was predictably racist and “Libtard vs GOP/FOx news” there, the real issue was the custody thing. He shot up the police station from an armored car then called 911 ranting about the cops taking away his child. There are other issues for sure but I’m interested to see how father’s righters take this on. I’m expecting them to support it as the Armageddon they all think needs to happen so someone will pay attention to them a la Rodger.

For those outside the US, I am personally embarrassed about Texas. It is a crazy place, especially in the past week.

I love this space, I read every word, just shy about posting comments.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

For those outside the US, I am personally embarrassed about Texas. It is a crazy place, especially in the past week.

Better not use the word crazy here.

Kakanian
Kakanian
6 years ago

@Binjabreel
I gather that the problem was the combination of austerity, an inherited corrupt political system and economies that weren’t capable of competing under the terms set by the austerity rules.

@AltoFronto
This the article you read?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/over-half-of-austrians-think-the-nazis-would-be-elected-if-the-party-was-readmitted-to-politics-8528218.html

They say that they think other Austrians would vote for a Nazi party, not that they themselves would. It’s a fairly theoretical exercise as honest-to-good nazi parties are illegal in Austria anyway and known former Nazis were active members in all parties in all provinces of the country postwar, so they always had plenty of representatives in the system.
German nationalists were generally found in all parties pre-Anschluss as well. Like Karl Renner, a pretty famous social-democractic viennese major, was pro-Anschluss granted that the Germany they’d join were ruled by socialist parties.

zennurse
zennurse
6 years ago

Oh I am so sorry, I do know better about the ableist language, I’ve been on
Twitter since very early am and am infected. Mea Culpa.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@zennurse

I understand.
It’s the culture we live in, so easy to slip up occasionally.

opium4themasses
6 years ago

I am always a bit suspicious of people talking about how only certain parts of the country are off. It requires ignoring stuff going on all over the US.

Case in point. The McKinney police department didn’t try to say their incident was defensible and even the main offender apologized. Part of that may be the atmosphere but I am happy to see some progress.

opium4themasses
6 years ago

Sorry, I shouldn’t dig into it here. Not a thread for that.

Criticaldragon1177
6 years ago

David Futrelle,

Tell me if I’m wrong. Its been a long time since I’ve seen it, but in the Starship Troopers movie, the society that was portrayed in it, wasn’t very misogynist. They had men and women on the same sports teems, and men and women even shared the same locker rooms. I’m guessing, Piroko isn’t really a fan of the film version.

spacelawn
6 years ago

Disgusting, but entirely unsurprised to hear (read) this.

AltoFronto
AltoFronto
6 years ago

@ Kakanian – Yes! That’s the one.

A further 42 per cent agreed with the view that life “wasn’t all bad under the Nazis”

was the bit that I found the most unsettling. And from the context of studying Ingeborg Bachmann, it seems that pre- and post-war Austria had its own dark relationship to Nazism.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

Hold on!

Someone said destroy Buenos Aires!? :O

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

@Asterose

“machogestapo” made me laugh out loud (it’s saturday and I’m stoned 😀 )

Criticaldragon1177
6 years ago

“No country in five thousand years of mostly recorded history has ever given women franchise and endured.”

Hey Piroko, Women have had the right to vote in the United States since the passage of the 19th amendment in 1919. That’s almost one hundred years, and men didn’t do anywhere near as much to subvert women’s right to vote than white men did to subvert the right of black people to vote. Looks like we “endured” pretty well so far.

A.A. Wils
6 years ago

@Asterose: “Machogestapo” LOL…love it! I believe this word needs to be entered into the lexicon for eternity.

DonVoyage
6 years ago

MRA= Master Race Activist

BritterSweet
6 years ago

@Bina

I only know what that means because of the Mozart song.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
6 years ago

@Criticaldragon1177

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starship_Troopers_characters):

“While combat troops are universally male, the Navy can and often does recruit women as ship crewmen, both because women make better pilots, and for reasons of morale.”

Heinlein actually seemed to be all for women engaged in rather high-status occupations, and while his reasoning gets odd, and he also says some…iffy things, he wouldn’t exactly fit in with the red-pillers.

TheAdversary
TheAdversary
6 years ago

The disastrous results of pseudo sciences like social darwinism and nazism, which were nothing but distortions and oversimplifications of the great philosophies of that
time (Nietzsche), have a big hand in preventing the people of the present from understanding that the opposite, egalitarianism, has equally disastrous consequences especially
when it is being implemented as rigorously as is done today. Social darwinism was essentially correct, but no one can decide what weakness is. That’s why it failed.
The opposite, egalitarianism, simply isn’t evolutionary stable and will cause the degeneration and eventual extinction of the species. So unless some kind of true elite arises,
addressing this evolutionary imbalance, humanity is doomed.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

One of the (very many) things that mystify me is how nobody (in power) seems to be able to figure out that if you want to increase the birth rate, you should make it easier for people to raise children — and in particular, not penalize women in their careers for having children.

GrumpyOldSocialJusticeMangina

I’m thinking particularly of Japan, where the birth rate is down in part because women who enjoy their careers are severely pressured into full time motherhood if they marry and have children.

viviennemarks
6 years ago

Do they….know that besides being evil, the Nazis…. lost the war? They lost. They’re losers.

opium4themasses
6 years ago

They can’t tell the Nazis are the baddies. Don’t expect too much.

Though I do remember seeing someone say that the Nazis secretly won because we pulled some rocket scientists into NASA and/or the CIA.

Over-easy
Over-easy
6 years ago

Opium4themasses

Jesus, Mary and Joseph Gordon Levitt,
that article is frightening. Of course, MRAs will blame gynocentric family courts, rather than, you know, he was quite likely an unfit father with anger management issues and according to the article, a history of family violence.
Or they will just label him “mentally ill” as they did Elliot Rodgers and blame a lack of mental healthe resources for men.
Anything to dissociate themselves from violent men and avoid examining toxic attitudes in masculinity.

Didn’t Elam post something about fathers bombing or setting fire to family courts?

Criticaldragon1177
6 years ago

@Bob Dole

You wrote,
——————————————————————————————————————–
@Criticaldragon1177

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starship_Troopers_characters):

“While combat troops are universally male, the Navy can and often does recruit women as ship crewmen, both because women make better pilots, and for reasons of morale.”

Heinlein actually seemed to be all for women engaged in rather high-status occupations, and while his reasoning gets odd, and he also says some…iffy things, he wouldn’t exactly fit in with the red-pillers.
——————————————————————————————————————–

It sounds like the book is different from the movie, because in the movie version I remember there being female combat troops.

NothingClever
NothingClever
6 years ago

The movie is also pretty much a parody of Heinlein’s book.

alaisvex
alaisvex
6 years ago

Wait…

Motherhood isn’t a position of responsibility? Caring for, nurturing, raising, and guiding human beings from infancy to adulthood isn’t responsibility in their minds?

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

@Bina: let me be the first to congratulate you on your mastery of your mother tongue. German is a beautiful language, especially for… certain occasions.

Isn’t it, though? Best language in the world for cussing people out. Especially ones who deserve it.

Being a german woman living in Germany, I see that when it comes to motherhood, this whole idea of Germany being quite the opposite to what it was in 1935 is not true. One of the reasons why women don’t have kids – or only one child – is the immense expectancy to how a mother should be. It actually comes from the mother image that was formed by Nazis: a mother would define herself through her kids only, would sacrifice herself for her kids, would be nothing else than a 100 per cent mom, and so on. Society still expects mothers to stay at home or work part-time only. Working full time while having kids is regarded as something very problematic, leading to poorly raised children with psychological issues. And that simply makes many women think they just can’t live up to that image. So, the irony of the whole thing is: a very conservative role model causes a low birth rate.

Bingo. Stigmatize working mothers, and it’s not surprising that German women would rather work than be mothers. Especially since a “good” mother, at least according to the old outmoded stereotype, is such an impossible person to be…

Meanwhile, somebody mentioned, earlier on, that France reversed its low-birthrate trend by using a different strategy: more governmental support for new parents, and less stigma for working moms. The result? More French babies. And moms returning to work happy and secure, knowing that their kids were in good hands.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 years ago

Heinlein believed a lot of odd things. He seemed to almost believe women were a separate species sometimes. (See Friday, for example. Or don’t. Trigger warnings should almost certainly be applied.)

That said, as noted above, he never really seemed to think women were unsuited for military roles. He may have had a streak of ‘separate but equal’, but he seemed to actually mean the ‘equal’ more than most people who use that phrase.

Then again, Heinlein’s attitudes and politics changed considerably over the course of his writing career, and particularly over the course of his three marriages. (His second wife was a liberal activist, his third more conservative military, and a WAVES officer in WWII.)

mcjuliek
mcjuliek
6 years ago

Why does anyone need to be having more children? Was there an apocalypse I wasn’t aware of?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@mcjuliek

It’s more of a racist thing ,you know, not enough white babies to go around and be white and shit the next generation.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

misseb47 | June 13, 2015 at 12:14 am
Shit likes this makes me so angry. How is it that they have the nerve to call us feminists and every woman who disagrees with them ‘feminazis’, while they are Neo Nazi’s who spout racists and antisemitic crap, who want Germany to go back to the ‘good old days’ of the third Reich and worship Hitler? Why did WE get stuck with the ‘nazi’ label? It pisses me off. >:-(

Because much like the words “sexist”, “rape”, “racist”, and “misogynist”, they know the word is bad, but they rather like the meaning of it.

Mew York Kitty (@CCMSparkster)

So I guess this means the term feminazi is no more, if they’re admitting that the Nazis are actively anti-feminist and that feminism is anti-fascist.
Is that a win?

Moocow
Moocow
6 years ago

Turns out the French have used their national virtues (such as they are) and common sense to promote motherhood in the best way imaginable — by (gasp) encouraging gender equality, along with women’s careers, and providing parents with tangible help in child rearing:

France’s baby boom secret: get women into work and ditch rigid family norms

Gender equality, pro-child policies and generous childcare provision are all bolstering French fertility rates rather than hindering them

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/21/france-population-europe-fertility-rate

Makes me happy for my french heritage. 😀

I think those progressive ideas are due, in part at least, to the fact that sexuality is such less of a taboo in France. More openness leads to more discussion. Sex drive isn’t seen as a “male” thing and being sexy isn’t seen as a “female” thing. Here’s an example of an ad campaign I’m sure a lot of you will enjoy 😛
comment image

And loads of commercials feature sex jokes that wholeheartedly acknowledge that everyone has a sex drive. Seriously, here are a few commercials I remember being confused by then finding hilarious while growing up:

Man and woman are in bed, she’s getting it on but he seems out of it and goes into the kitchen. Woman is frustrated and goes to see what he’s up to and notices him with his back turned and his right hand gyrating quickly. She’s looking upset, until he turns around and he’s just scrambling some eggs. (The tag line is “la cuisine qui donne envie” which means “The kitchen that makes you wanna ;)”

Teenage Girl and boy are both sitting on bed facing away from the camera, dialog goes like this:
Girl: “C’mon, show me”
Boy: “I dunno…”
Girl: “Seriously? You said you would”
Boy: “Ok fine”
Girl: “Woaaaaah, it’s huge!”
Boy: “Yeah it’s pretty sweet, huh?”
Cut to in front of them, he’s holding a cell phone.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

In the US there are plenty of special needs adoption eligible white kids who age out of care without being ever adopted.

Racist fuckwits do nothing to give those kids homes. They aren’t concerned for little white children and teens who need families. They are concerned with enslaving women. They fantasize about a world where they don’t have to compete with women. One where women are livestock they can own and abuse.

Children aren’t people to these creeps. They’re tools to use to punish women.

Mew York Kitty (@CCMSparkster)

@Moocow That’s what I love about France. France is just far more sexually open and positive than much of the Anglo-Protestant world (namely the Five Eyes of USA, Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand).

Also, when the French do feminist internet debates, it tends to involve far less doxxing and rape threats and more making lighthearted jabs at each other.

Sadly, there’s some of that WHTM bullshit in the comments there too.

(Roughly translated from French to English)

“I’ll remind the women here that while you were treated well, men fought to destroy these despicable cliches that you rejoice in. I’ve realized you are right, but the oppressed have become the oppressors. You’ve proved our 200,000,000 years of oppression and we’ve proved that in our place you are doing the same thing as well.”

Awful Man
Awful Man
6 years ago

I thought Starship Troopers was an incredibly absurd vision of an idealistic military utopia, where all the problems were solved and we were safer than ever because we banded together in glorious war.

Granted I read it a long time ago, but I always thought of it as an absurdist take on the human condition. Like Catch-22, or Brazil… or maybe A Modest Proposal?

Apparently Heinlein was dead serious when he wrote it. Now I feel weird and gross about the whole thing. I kind of want to re-read it now that I’ve been told he actually believed in it, but I don’t want to waste my time on stupid things written by someone who is a butthead.