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Red Pill dudes agree: Volunteering can totally be alpha, just as long as you don’t help poor people. Or kittens.

Hold frame and do not give in to this kitten's devious "I want food" shit test.
Kitten shit-testing a human. Hold frame and do not give in! 

So one public-spirited gentleman who calls himself retturd has a question for the alpha dudes of the Ask The Red Pill subreddit: Is volunteering seen as blue pill? Retturd assures the assembled color-of-pill experts that “I love volunteering and helping people in general.” He just worries that being so helpful might be seen as terribly beta.

The regulars assure him that volunteering is perfectly fine for alphas. As long as they’re careful about just who they are helping. Helping old dudes and learning from their old-school alpha ways? Perfect. Helping poor people? Not so much:

abdada 11 points 6 hours ago  All men should have a cause that they actively do but don't talk about.  I volunteer at an old folk's home 2-3 weeks every year. It isn't charity; I learn freely from hanging out with old dudes.  But having a cause that is your own isn't beta. Helping others can be construed as white knighting, so you have to define what your limits in charity are.  I won't help poor people most of the time because I don't see many of them changing. I define my limits on my charity because it is my time and it is my money (sometimes) I am investing in others, not just throwing around freely.

Also, helping kittens is right out, unless you’re Elon Musk. Or at the very least a sharp-dressed swole dude.

ghrelly 2 points 4 hours ago  No single action is either blue pill or red pill.  Red pill is all about people's perception of you.  If Elon Musk started volunteering at an animal shelter with kittens, people would not think any less of him cause his SMV is so high that they perceive his action in a positive light.  On the other hand, if you have a mediocre job, not social, dressed shittly, didn't work out, and volunteer to raise kittens, people will probably see you as a beta.

DO YOU EVEN LIFT KITTENS, BRO?

 

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weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

We’re left to sit in rooms, staring at the walls, living off of air and light mist.

I think you’ve finally cracked it! The life of the narrator of the Yellow Wallpaper. That’s the lifestyle that’s acceptable for women. Not that red pillers would have read and comprehended that story.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

Fruitloopsie

You know what’s even more Alpha? Setting yourself on fire and then diving headfirst into a pool while holding a live grenade.

TBH I don’t see why Red Pillers even bother trying. I mean, El Macho is clearly the most alpha:

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Moocow
OMGosh! I saw that movie how could I possibly forget about El Macho!? And I almost forgot about Popeye. I believe he is the first Alpha.

kupo
kupo
5 years ago

I didn’t see my hobbies of archery, coal mining, and skydiving in that list, so I’m totes cool.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@SFHC – I dunno, but that’s pretty awesome! How do you make the Pokemon necklaces? Is it beadwork/bead weaving or do you make them with oven-bake clay?

When work gets less busy, I’m planning to make DNA-shaped necklaces. I mean, just the simple shape – two thicker wires twisted in a spiral for the outer edges, with four bead colours for the two base pairs in between. (Not the whole atomic structure. I’m not that ambitious.)

As for volunteering, I do some online at https://www.zidisha.org – translating French loan applications into English. No kittens, but I like putting my language skills to use and learning more about French African countries. Besides, I like Zidisha’s microfinance model – an upfront cost for borrowers instead of (potentially injurious) interest rates.

Anyway. I wish I had more time so I could volunteer doing active things too (I used to help make food for a soup kitchen once a week.)

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@kupo

Everytime I see your name, I think of moogles, which is probably the point. It makes me smile. :3

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

David Futrelle
::Shakes head:: Amazing

epitome of incomprehensibility

David, you should write stories!!!

Well, not “should” – I can’t really tell people what they should or shouldn’t do – ah, forget it 🙂

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

The guy who won’t help poor people claims to have devoted literally thousands of hours and dollars to helping poor people and getting mad because it’s like they WANT to be poor!

A more astute person would look at the seeming futility of charity and the endless cycle of poverty and realize that perhaps charity, while comes from good intentions most of the time is a band aid and doesn’t address the actual causes poverty. Which is not lack of the will to bootstrap, but the lack of good policy, a not robust enough welfare state, and a lack of empathy and understanding of how people get and stay in poverty.

It takes a special kind of stupid to interact with people who are financially struggling and come to the conclusion that they’re just lazy. That describes only a percentage of people who are poor.

genderequalitybatman
5 years ago

I love that its alpha to care about what other people think of you. You know what’s alpha male? Gettin high and readin poetry by candlelight in the bath son.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@fruitloopsie

I love Despicable Me! Hah, so that must mean alphas only eat spinach?

@epitome of incromprehensibility & SFHC

Omg, I want Pokemon and DNA necklaces! And I’m not just saying that cause they’ll help me look suuuuper alpha 😛

epitome of incomprehensibility

@weirwoodtreehugger – very true. What’s lazy is thinking acts of goodwill here and there will magically cure poverty. They can and do make a difference, but poverty needs to be tackled from multiple angles, including at the root.

(I’m changing the world, one mixed metaphor at a time.)

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

I volunteer at an old folks home 2-3 weeks out of every year. It isn’t charity; I learn freely from hanging out with old dudes.

And now I’m imagining this guy pestering the “old dudes” (not the old women, of course, because they hit the wall long ago and are therefore invisible) to tell him about the good old days when women knew their place and stayed home meekly dispensing sandwiches and blow jobs, amirite? And the old dudes are all like “wtf, kid, Doris worked at the shipyard building Liberty ships during WWII. She was on the technical crew responsible for installing operating equipment. Then she got an accounting degree, raised five kids, grew most of our food, and started her own small business. Now shut up. Judge Judy is on”.

The mindset in the OP’s comment is pretty revealing, that if you don’t extract tangible value out of every single human interaction, you’re a chump and a fool. Volunteering is only worthwhile if it boosts your SMV, otherwise forget it. Seems like a pretty sad way to live.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
5 years ago

A more astute person would look at the seeming futility of charity and the endless cycle of poverty and realize that perhaps charity, while comes from good intentions most of the time is a band aid and doesn’t address the actual causes poverty. Which is not lack of the will to bootstrap, but the lack of good policy, a not robust enough welfare state, and a lack of empathy and understanding of how people get and stay in poverty.

It takes a special kind of stupid to interact with people who are financially struggling and come to the conclusion that they’re just lazy. That describes only a percentage of people who are poor.

*applause*

It’s not like there are thousands of 6 figure jobs just waiting for a mentally ill homeless person to take if they pulled their bootstraps just hard enough to fill out an application

And that’s not even mentioning the fact that lazy people don’t deserve to die on the streets.

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
5 years ago

What’s these guys problem with individuality? It’s like they’re a bunch of nosy little conformists who are terrified to death by the idea of a woman or man possibly enjoying petting kittens between sessions of Magic: the gathering.

I mean, for me, my heroes are guys who helped people. Audi Murphy: pushed for PTSD to be recognized as a serious disease. I mean, there’s nothing more alpha than swallowing your pride and letting a trained professional help you, or helping others.

I mean, do they feel anything? Are all other human beings like balls of rust, razor blades and barbed wire to them? Is that why they hate us so much?

bekabot
5 years ago

Since homeless guys are usually poor, hence the homelessness, I’m gonna assume yes on that question. But why help homeless men when feminists should be doing it for you, amirite?

But see, these guys have got the answer to that and homelessness would cease in an instant if people would only listen to them. And the answer is…{drum roll please} men become homeless when women want men to talk about their feelings. That’s all there is to it. As soon as women no longer want to talk about feelings with homeless men, the homeless men will no longer be homeless, the women will all become happy homebodies, universal harmony will rule, and the only creatures who will be out on the street are the cats.

How do we know this? Well…we know it because we know that women never dared try to discuss their feelings with men before Betty Friedan told them it was OK, and because we also know that men were never homeless before the mid-20th century and because 19th-century women never grew plump.

Correlation isn’t causation, but man, some coincidences are just too glaring to ignore.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I mean, for me, my heroes are guys who helped people.
it to be accessible. I’m guessing he’ll be remembered, valued and admired far more

Seriously. Jonas Salk decided not to get rich off the polio vaccine because he wanted it to be accessible. He’s far more admired and valued than some sexist and racist Ayn Rand idolizing douchebag who only volunteers to try and get old timey pick up tactics from old men.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

“Guys die because every time they’re about to do something that might help them or be good for them there’s a chorus of their friends in the back of their mind going, ‘What are you, a fag? Oh look, he’s got an umbrella just cause it’s raining! Put your collar up!”

http://www.funnysigns.net/files/no-we-wont-400×341.jpg

Rachel
Rachel
5 years ago

I feel awful for anyone fathered by a man who considers seeming “alpha” more important than empathy and doing the right thing. I’m going to have to do something extra special for my charitable, kitten-loving Dad this Father’s Day.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
5 years ago

Rachel
Make a “love box” for him with pictures of kitties, poetry you wrote, crochet him something, make a giant card for him. That’s what I’m doing for my “daddy”.

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

megpie71:

I find myself wondering how many of these people purport to be Christian. Because, y’know… religion where helping the poor and destitute is practically required, ditto things like visiting prisoners (originally to make sure the prisoners knew they hadn’t been forgotten), helping the sick, avoiding public displays of wealth and prestige, etc.

Conservative Jesus laughs at your hippie bullshit! All you need to do is accept Conservative Jesus as your personal bro, and you’re saved! You can continue being selfish. In fact, Conservative Jesus almost requires it.

Rita
Rita
5 years ago

If “Red Pill is all about people’s perception about you” as ghrelly suggests, then everything I perceive about MGTOW/PUA/Manospherians is so beta. I can’t imagine living in a world where everything I do is based on someone else’s perception versus what is right and wrong. This is why this cult cannot be reasoned with, it’s some weird and twisted popularity contest concerned with upvotes and pandering to an immature idea of how to be relevant.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Dan Kasteray:
It’s really sad, isn’t it? An external locus of self-worth is a shitty thing to have and I feel for them. It must be such a miserable way to live: “I want to do X. Wait, is X alpha? I’d better go and ask some people on the internet to make my life decisions for me.”

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

“I want to do X. Wait, is X alpha? I’d better go and ask some people on the internet to make my life decisions for me.”

“People who don’t really care about me, and who would drop me in an instant if I failed to conform to their expectations. After all, I can’t depend on advice from people who really care about me as a person, because that would be beta as fuck.”

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

@paradoxical… that list of ‘hobbies that turn men off’ – are the same list of hobbies that would turn me off someone’s CV if they listed them as their interests or, fair to say, if I saw it on an online dating site. Except for one. Volunteering. But it would totally turn me off if I just saw ‘volunteering’ – I’d want to know what they were doing. Because if someone listed volunteering generically I wouldn’t believe them.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

I think I’m going to save this to link to every time I encounter someone claiming that these people are the true egalitarians, etc. “I am currently helping some people less fortunate than myself but if you strangers think that makes me “beta” I’ll totally stop because priorities.”

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

Once again, MRM misses the boat. I think a lot of these guys are suffering from missed social connections (I mean obvs, a lot of them are pretty toxic). Loneliness and lack of connection is a killer. Volunteering in a way that helps you build social connections and gives you pleasurable feedback from helping others is good for your health (and it’s a good thing to do). Instead of hating on others, if they really wanted to help men, they’d be encouraging them to live full lives – yes, helping themselves, but making connections and serving others.

Sport (apparently fairly alpha) volunteering in particular has some research behind it to show that it reduces depression, improves health outcomes and makes people feel happier and more resilient. This is currently my volunteering effort and it’s incredibly rewarding. I get back far more than I put in.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Moggie:
People caring about one another is totally beta.

I’ve just realised something. If you replace the word “beta” with the word “gay” in MRA writings, it reads far more naturally.

Lynn
Lynn
5 years ago

Fancy that, it’s wrong to help the ones who need the most help. I just love how they shit on poor people. All I have to say is, may the day come where you find yourself in poverty and no one is around to help.

karma is a bitch, you’ll see.

Mitchel
5 years ago

Wow! I think this “alpha” thing has gone too far these days. I saw a video on youtube not too long ago where a guy showed you “how to sit like an alpha male.” Isn’t the biggest “alpha trait” not to actually tell people you’re an “alpha male?” 😛

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Wait, I thought poor people (specifically poor men) were poor because women were too busy milking every dollar from them in alimony and child support. Now suddenly they’re just lazy and unwilling to change?

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Wow! I think this “alpha” thing has gone too far these days.

“Alpha” was always rotten. It was built on foundations of internalised misandry, self-loathing and victim-blaming, and nothing built on such foundations can ever escape them. It has not been corrupted: it is corruption.

“Alpha” is a toxic meme. Anyone who argues in favour of it is prioritising dominance over morality, which is unacceptable.

“Alpha” isn’t going too far. It’s just showing its true colours.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

Wait, I thought poor people (specifically poor men) were poor because women were too busy milking every dollar from them in alimony and child support. Now suddenly they’re just lazy and unwilling to change?

The one consistent thing about reactionaries is that the narrative is fluid and changes to suit whatever they’re talking about at the moment.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

I’m reminded of an ex boyfriend of mine. He liked to drink wine, and we would always share a bottle over dinner. Then we went for a weekend away with his sports club (it was a disaster) and all of a sudden I was trying to get through a bottle of rose by myself because he couldn’t be seen drinking wine in front of his beer chugging buddies. Nothing says ‘manly’ like being afraid to drink something you enjoy for fear of what others might think of you. He also refused to visit Kew Gardens with me because ‘flowers are gay’.

Being an alpha is SO limiting.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

snorkmaiden – the beer may have been strategic – if you try to compete on volume with wine, it’s a sucker bet. Pints of wine will lay people out (I’ve seen it). You can argue that it’s a stupid culture, and perhaps it is, but it’s one that many people, myself included, enjoy. And just because you enjoy wine doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy beer. Beer is good for you (I’m told by unreliable sources).

But refusing to visit Kew, that is pretty silly. Although these days the entry price is so high, I’d expect rides for that kind of money.

sn0rkmaiden
5 years ago

@Rugbyyogi, I’m smiling at the thought of pints of wine. A wine themed drinking competition would be truly hardcore. At the time I was more annoyed because suddenly I was in a position of trying to finish a bottle of wine myself or see it wasted, had I known he wasn’t going to drink any I’d have had vodka instead like all the other girls.

The prices at Kew are ridiculous, I blame that tropical storm back in ’87 where loads of their trees were uprooted, before that they only charged a token 1p entry. But for the record, we would’ve got in free, I had guest passes.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

I’m smiling at the thought of pints of wine.

According to Bernard Cornwell, the Duke of Wellington’s army were issued a pint of wine per man every day as part of their rations. Allegedly this was seen as one of the main reasons to join the army.

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

I remember the token access prices at Kew Gardens! Sadly, though, their research and conservation work take a lot of money, and their funding is a mess:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/04/kew-funding-is-recipe-for-disaster-warn-mps

If you pay for “friend” membership, you get free access year round, plus access to various other gardens around the country. I must admit that I haven’t visited for a few years, but I keep my membership paid up because of the work they do.

And flowers are not gay. Some of them are asexual.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Nothing says confidence and mastery like crowdsourcing your morality.

Having an inner sense of self: meh.

What other guys are doing with their dicks: Serious Business.

He’s far more admired and valued than some sexist and racist Ayn Rand idolizing douchebag who only volunteers to try and get old timey pick up tactics from old men.

Now I’m wondering what old timey pickup tactics would look like. Back in the days when fedoras were standard male attire, did PUAs peacock in stovepipe hats?

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Now I’m wondering what old timey pickup tactics would look like. Back in the days when fedoras were standard male attire, did PUAs peacock in stovepipe hats?

Strutting your stuff, pre-Great War era:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Churchill,_uniform.jpg

(Bonus points if you know who that is.)

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

(To clarify: that person wasn’t actually in the military. They just liked to wear the uniform to look good.)

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Now I’m wondering what old timey pickup tactics would look like. Back in the days when fedoras were standard male attire, did PUAs peacock in stovepipe hats?

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/humanscience/images/1/19/33_elizabeth_upset_Pride_and_Prejudice.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20071128194951

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

Mitchel:

I saw a video on youtube not too long ago where a guy showed you “how to sit like an alpha male.”

Is that where you sit with your legs ninety degrees apart, as if to send the message “I have dangerously unwieldy genitalia”? Annoying as hell on public transport, when they’re next to you and encroaching on your space.

limesweet
limesweet
5 years ago

@ EJ (the other one) it’s Winston Churchill. No idea how I knew that!

lonestarpelican
5 years ago

In my mind, it’s NOW OFFICIAL!

Speaking as a middle-aged guy, I can assure you that anyone with even the hint of the concept that helping poor people and kittens could affect the image of how masculine he is is not so much a “normal, decent, self-respecting man with strong backbone” (my phraseology) as someone who is a bit strange. I wasn’t exactly the most secure in my masculinity (if defined as “social domiance”) when I was in my 20s, but I never went THAT far.

Naomi Harvey
5 years ago

@ Maggie I saw an article somewhere about someone who was arrested for ‘man-spreading’ on public transport. I also read a hilarious article about a woman who had taken to sitting on people on the tube if they were man-spreading over more than one seat and refusing to move.

maghavan
maghavan
5 years ago

@limesweet

If that’s WC then EJ is wrong. WC did serve in the military.

Mitchel
5 years ago

@Maggie

Funny you should mention that. My friend told me not too long about how annoyed his girlfriend gets sitting next to “alpha males” on public transit that like to take up a lot of space.

I don’t recall him saying anything about 90 degree angles. It’s a guy wearing sunglasses indoors sitting on a couch that talks about 3 “dominant alpha male seating positions.” He says most men are “beta” and sit like women. He also says to never lean on an armrest. And, finally, he talks about how you can easily shift from position to position if you arm or leg gets tired.

potterchik
potterchik
5 years ago

How sad it must be to walk around all the tie obsessed with with that Alpha-beta bullshit. “Hmm, these socks are kind of beta…but then, the confidence to wear them is ALPHA! I can’t decide.” “I want some coffee, but what if people see me put sugar in it?? They’ll think I’m beta.” “My sister is moving…is carrying large things Alpha enough to make up for the beta-ness of helping out a woman??”
You know what’s really Alpha? (Nothing, probably, since it sounds bogus to me, but let’s pretend.) NOT GIVING A SHIT WHETHER PEOPLE SEE YOU AS ALPHA OR NOT.