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Vox Day: Military history proves that those who “tolerate effeminacy” will lose to those who murder gays

bigotry

Vox Day, the not-quite-Nazi fantasy author and generally repellant human being, is evidently upset that some people would like trans folks to be allowed to serve openly in the military. In a blog post today (archived here), Vox (Theodore Beale) cites recent gains by ISIS as proof that armies that “tolerate effeminacy” will inevitably lose to, well, armies run by people who hate gay and trans people enough to murder them.

No, really. Here’s his argument, in all of its horrendous, er, glory:

Military history clearly demonstrates that the side that executes homosexuals, whether throwing them off buildings or having their fellow soldiers beat them to death, reliably defeats the side that allows its soldiers to dress up and pretend they are women.

Yes, wealth and technology are on the side of the crossdressing military. But attrition, geography, and history are on the side that does not tolerate effeminacy.

Naturally, Beale’s commenters step up to offer their own equally terrible opinions on the matter.

According to Musashi #0350,

This national validation of all things homo is an affront to God and we will witness the resulting consequences. This is arrogance, pride, and most of all, rebellion. So now we pollute the military and somehow expect there will be no negative outcome.

We will lose our next war, and rightly so.

Alexander adds

Let’s see how long discipline lasts when mentally ill individuals have the power of the state behind them to remove their commanders from their positions, on the basis that said commanders don’t tolerate the private prancing about in heels and stockings.

Or conversely, when the officers insist upon it.

ajw308 is afraid the armed forces could be overwhelmed by the “sexually confused.”

I fear the day is coming where the US gov’t will pay for the mutilatiotional surgery that the sexually confused think will make them happy and the US military is flooded with transgenders seeking pretend surgical reassignment

Cail Corishev, meanwhile, indulges in this rather old-fashioned fantasy:

Just imagine if we (meaning the US govt. military) came up against a Christian army — not just a heathen army that God might use to chastise us, but a Christian army that could ask for His favor directly.

Theodore Beale and his fans: in essence, a Christian version of ISIS.

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Hypatia
Hypatia
9 years ago

@blucatbabe

“I love the way the “thing I dislike/thing that makes me uncomfortable” becomes “the end of civilisation as we know it, fire, brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth, and then you’ll all be sorry” so extremely fast with these lovely lovely people.

It’s almost as if the entire universe revolves around them.

In their opinion.”

This is pretty much manosphere in a nutshell. Apocalyptic predictions just because the world isn’t the way they’d want it to be.

katz
katz
9 years ago

A letter from one WWII GI to another (reminder: we won).

Dear Dave,

This is in memory of an anniversary — the anniversary of October 27th, 1943, when I first heard you singing in North Africa. That song brings memories of the happiest times I’ve ever known. Memories of a GI show troop — curtains made from barrage balloons — spotlights made from cocoa cans — rehearsals that ran late into the evenings — and a handsome boy with a wonderful tenor voice. Opening night at a theatre in Canastel — perhaps a bit too much muscatel, and someone who understood. Exciting days playing in the beautiful and stately Municipal Opera House in Oran — a misunderstanding — an understanding in the wings just before opening chorus.

Drinks at “Coq d’or” — dinner at the “Auberge” — a ring and promise given. The show 1st Armoured — muscatel, scotch, wine — someone who had to be carried from the truck and put to bed in his tent. A night of pouring rain and two very soaked GIs beneath a solitary tree on an African plain. A borrowed French convertible — a warm sulphur spring, the cool Mediterranean, and a picnic of “rations” and hot cokes. Two lieutenants who were smart enough to know the score, but not smart enough to realize that we wanted to be alone. A screwball piano player — competition — miserable days and lonely nights. The cold, windy night we crawled through the window of a GI theatre and fell asleep on a cot backstage, locked in each other’s arms — the shock when we awoke and realized that miraculously we hadn’t been discovered. A fast drive to a cliff above the sea — pictures taken, and a stop amid the purple grapes and cool leaves of a vineyard.

The happiness when told we were going home — and the misery when we learned that we would not be going together. Fond goodbyes on a secluded beach beneath the star-studded velvet of an African night, and the tears that would not be stopped as I stood atop the sea-wall and watched your convoy disappear over the horizon.

We vowed we’d be together again “back home,” but fate knew better — you never got there. And so, Dave, I hope that where ever you are these memories are as precious to you as they are to me.

Goodnight, sleep well my love.

Brian Keith

bekabot
9 years ago

I sense ranks on ranks of straw men being set up, because (alas) we live in a world in which it’s by no means sure or evident that entities like ISIS or Al Quaeda are entirely separate from the Pentagon or the CIA. Even though they (ISIS et al.) have attacked us, they’re at least partly creations of ours, and can, in that sense, be described as “our” fighters. They exist in their present form (to some extent) as the result of our meddling. What we’re observing in the present day world is not the bloated poncy army of an effete nation being opposed and beaten by the noble-savage warriors of primal desert peoples, but one big disorganized fighting force, some of whose factions are engaged in a showdown with the others.

We’re already living under one-world conditions (which don’t necessitate peace at all.) Get used to it.

Michael Lindsay
9 years ago

history clearly demonstrates

So clearly I forgot to cite it.

One of those pithy non-statements like “all experts agree”, sure sign of impending avalanche of bullshit. He didn’t disappoint.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@katz

Tears in my eyes, tears in my eyes, I really hoped they found each other again and if not why does the world have love oh god it’s so cruel.

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
9 years ago

We will lose our next war, and rightly so.

So are they saying the US won in Iraq and Afghanistan? What about Vietnam?

Nequam
Nequam
9 years ago

Yo, it’s summer and I have a a fungal rash of the groin.

I tell you this to illustrate something less repellent than virtually everything said by Vox Day.

Tightened that up a bit for you.

marinerachel
marinerachel
9 years ago

I’ll give you that.

kyuubinokitsunehime
kyuubinokitsunehime
9 years ago

I can nail a three inch target at over a mile with a .388 Lapua or a .50 Caliber BMG, and the armed forces turned me down because I’m transgender. These people are full of shit, I can out shoot a marine sniper at long range, I carry two Smith & Wesson M&P 45s on my person at all times, I own four rifles and two shotguns. Guess whose ass these moron as are gonna kiss if the US get invaded? My perky trans butt. I’m an American Citizen, I’m armed as is my right, I’m fairly able bodied too. That makes me a part of the US Militia, these idiots are damn stupid cry babies. We get invaded they’ll cry, I’ll fight, and we’ll win with out these transphobic wusses. Why? Because I and others like me have rights we value and will fight for. These guys? They’ll cry all over their neck beards in their grandma’s basement. Worthless idiots.

ColeYote
ColeYote
9 years ago

Because the Iraqi, Syrian and Lebanese militaries are just so well-known for their progressive ideas about LGBT people…

(I mean being some of the only countries in the middle east where homosexuality isn’t a crime is a few steps up from ISIS, but Day and his fans are idiots if they think tolerance of homosexuality is why they haven’t crushed ISIS)

(Scratch that, Day and his fans are idiots regardless)

katz
katz
9 years ago

I really hoped they found each other again and if not why does the world have love oh god it’s so cruel.

Alas, Dave never made it home from the war 🙁

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

During the Great Patriotic War, the Red Army allowed women in the ranks (and in fact preferred them for tank crews, because Soviet tanks were cramped enough that women’s smaller statures were an advantage.)

The Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS did not permit women in the ranks. At most, some Volkssturm and Allgemeine-SS roles were female, but they didn’t see action until the war was already decided.

Beale, like all military sci fi writers, has a deep love of the Second World War. I wonder if he perhaps temporarily forgot this when talking about military history and the crippling effect that effeminacy has on the effectiveness of armies? I say this because I seem to remember that the Red Army beat the Wehrmacht fairly handily.

Oh, another example, based on another war Beale may have heard of. The Viet Cong allowed women and gays in the ranks. The US Army did not. Which side had to flee their own embassy from the roof via helicopter, again?

katz
katz
9 years ago

Which side had to flee their own embassy from the roof via helicopter, again?

Sssshhh, every American knows Vietnam never happened.

(I am often amazed by how brazenly we Americans rewrite history to ignore the bits we don’t like. Even if ti happened within living memory.)

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@katz

Why must beautifull things die? Why must flowers shrivel and wilt? Why must the world give love and take it away? Why can’t there be a happy ending for once?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cdwu.gif

I need to go watch Touch of Pink.

epitome of incomprehensibility

Military history clearly demonstrates that the side that executes homosexuals, whether throwing them off buildings or having their fellow soldiers beat them to death, reliably defeats the side that allows its soldiers to dress up and pretend they are women.

Can’t make any tough boasts – I’m a short, awkward Canadian who has trouble steering a lawnmower – but I’m pretty sure if you kill off members of your army because they happen to be gay or trans, you have fewer people in said army. Which means fewer people to fight your enemy.

Yes, wealth and technology are on the side of the crossdressing military. But attrition, geography, and history are on the side that does not tolerate effeminacy.

Okay, “attrition warfare” means to wear the enemy down through massive losses. In WW1 at least, that meant soldiers on both sides were dying at massive rates. No, it wasn’t pretty, but it did mean that the side with more people and more resources (often, not even more weapons but simply more food) was the one that won. What the flying fudgesicle does that have to do with “effeminacy”?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

Sssshhh, every American knows Vietnam never happened.

(I am often amazed by how brazenly we Americans rewrite history to ignore the bits we don’t like. Even if ti happened within living memory.)

Thirty years from now, photos of George W. Bush aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln will be used as proof-positive that the war in Iraq was a resounding success. “See? They had a big party, and that banner says ‘Mission Accomplished.'”

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

Sssshhh, every American knows Vietnam never happened.

(I am often amazed by how brazenly we Americans rewrite history to ignore the bits we don’t like. Even if ti happened within living memory.)

Thirty years from now, people will point to pictures and video of George W. Bush’s speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln and use them as proof positive of a resounding U.S. victory in the Iraq War. “See? They had a big party and that banner says ‘Mission Accomplished.'”

epitome of incomprehensibility

Hey hey, I just remembered, I DO have one claim to physical toughness! Just recently, at the ripe old age of almost 27, I did ten chin-ups in a row. Yay. I feel accomplished now. 🙂

katz, Pandapool – hell yes, that is a sad letter. But it reminds me of this oddly detailed surreal dream I had where I was browsing through a bookstore (in real life, I’d been reading up on WW1 a little for my RA work):

“Finally, there’s a Penguin Classics paperback (published circa the 1980s but apparently written decades earlier) about a love affair between two WW1 soldiers – the blurb on the back explains that, while it may sound funny to modern readers, 1910s slang included calling one’s male comrades “homo,” meaning man. Naturally, the main characters’ straight friends call each other this constantly.”

(me, modified from a post on another website)

DL
DL
9 years ago

Hope those assholes one day learn that trans and other MOGAI people are, in fact, NOT caricatures. We prance around in high heels as much as cis people in the army, which to my knowledge isn’t very much in any armies that I know of. Those dickbags are so confused about everything though so I’m not very surprised here.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

Dammit, double post. This thread and I do not get along.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

Wait, what are kids being taught about Vietnam? Because it hasn’t been long since I was in school and we were talk that it was an awful clusterfuck that fucked over many people’s lives in order to contain communism, which was laughably stupid.

To paraphrase.

Also agent orange is fucking awful for many reasons.

brooked
brooked
9 years ago

I’m surprised David even bothered to make this post, VD is a generic hard Right bigoted asswipe who spits up a slightly updated version of a decades old spiel: “the gays are decadent, decadence makes us weak, the barbarians aren’t decadent, so the barbarians win and The American Empire falls”.

VD starts off by making a weak attempt to establish his assfact street cred:

If there is one lesson, just one, from all of Martin van Creveld’s books, it is that technology does not guarantee military victory.

After that, as Falconer and others have pointed out, VD is off to the races and he makes a series of wildly broad and completely unsubstantiated claims.

Sorry, but name dropping van Creveld doesn’t mean VD can claim “military history clearly demonstrates” one of his ridiculous assertions. VD also thinks ISIS and al-Qaeda are the same thing, and I’ve officially lost interest.

I was hoping for a Gerard vs bar manager post, that kerfuffle has a lot of humor potential.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

technology does not guarantee military victory

Funny, but it worked great for the US when they had nukes but no one else did. Or the Chinese when they were the only ones who had gunpowder, for that matter.

Again, more evidence that Pox has no notion of military history, not even the most basic.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@Bina

He’s watched Avatar one too many times.

Ann Morgan
Ann Morgan
9 years ago

On a different subject about Vox, he had a whiny post a while back claiming that Eric Flint, and others, were mistaken about his being a very weaselly racist, and poor little Vox is an innocent little lamb, and not a racist at all.

Well, I doubt Vox is an innocent little lamb, and am more inclined to agree with Eric Flint that he is a very weaselly racist. But leaving that aside for the moment, if one takes Vox at his word, and assumes that he is really an innocent little non-racist lamb, this leads to an interesting conclusion. The thing is, it is really completely unbeleivable that so many people would either believe he is a racist for no reason at all, or that so many people – most of whom do not know one another – would all be involved in a conspiracy to smear Vox’s innocent name.

This being the case, the only possibility remaining (if you actually believe that Vox is an innocent little lamb) is that he has some sort of very severe communications disability, such that he is completely unable to adequately communicate his actual beliefs. If that is, in fact, the case – and it would pretty much have to be if he is really the innocent little lamb that he claims – then he should probably find a different career other than author and internet blogger, as both those careers require that one not have a severe communications disability.