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a voice for men creepy Dean Esmay men who should not ever be with women ever MRA paul elam

“We’re a group of volunteers dedicated to a cause, and the cause is Paul Elam.” — Dean Esmay of A Voice for Men

ProTip: If you're ever tempted to start a cult, play this video game instead, and leave real people alone.
ProTip: If you’re ever tempted to start a cult, play this video game instead, and leave real people alone.

I sometimes refer to A Voice for Men, the Men’s Rights hate site that has evolved into something of a hate group, as a cult. Up until now I’ve only done so half-seriously; while there are a lot of things about AVFM that are cultish, from the apocalyptic rhetoric to the constant demands for money to the organized harassment of its critics, it seems to lack some of the central elements of a real cult.

I mean, they’re not holed up in a compound in Idaho; they don’t wear funny uniforms; and they don’t talk, at least not publicly, about their single-minded dedication to serving the group’s leader — one Paul Elam of Houston Texas.

Or at least I thought they didn’t.

One of my readers has pointed out to me an interesting moment in a video posted on Youtube last year by a woman — known by her internet handle SworeByThePrecious — who had been talking to AVFM’s Dean Esmay about getting a press pass for AVFM’s conference last year. The video features the uncut audio from a long and contentious 4 AM phone she and Esmay had to discuss the matter. (Ultimately, she didn’t get the press pass; here’s her account of what happened when she caught up with some of  the conferencegoers at a bar afterwards.)

The really interesting bit in the recording — which I somehow missed when I listened to this last year — comes just short of the 23 minute mark, when Esmay pointedly tells Swore that he and other AVFMers are “a group of volunteers dedicated to a cause, and the cause is Paul Elam.” Here’s the audio:

Yep. You heard that correctly. The Number Two dude at AVFM doesn’t say that their cause is Men’s Rights, or fighting the evil “hate group” that is feminism, or any of the other things that Men’s Rights Activists like to say that they’re about. He says, plain as day, that their “cause is Paul Elam.”

If you don’t believe me, you can find the quote in the original video here. (The link should send you directly to that part of the phone call; if not, it’s 22:50 in.)

Now, I’m assuming that this was a Freudian slip on Esmay’s part, but whether it was intentional or not it’s pretty damn revealing, huh?

 

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EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

If were good and virtuous feminists, there would be no Block Quote Mammoth. It is the scourge of Katie on us to punish us for our sins. Let us repent and thank Katie for her chastisement that we may see the error of our ways.

And yeah. Hugs all around to everyone who’s survived narcissistic family.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

I recall that horse meat was sold for public consumption, only passed off as something else?

Yeah, that was a big thing here. The Islamic and Jewish communities were extremely pissed off because much of that meat had been certified halal / kosher. If the certification process can’t even tell you what animal it comes from, then the claims about ritual being followed suddenly sound less than credible. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

To be honest, I didn’t notice much. I imagine I ended up making burgers out of horse mince instead of mutton now and again, but they were delicious so that’s no problem. Horse seems pretty edible.

guest
guest
9 years ago

When I worked in northern Italy I had to turn my face away whenever I walked by the meat section of the grocery store, because I wasn’t thrilled about seeing ‘equino’ written on some of the shrinkwrapped steaks. Conversely, when I was visiting friends in Oman I snapped a picture of a sign pointing the way to the ‘pig room’–you COULD buy pork, but it was down a long hallway separated from the rest of the store by two doors.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

makingfitzcarraldo-Thank you! <3

It is a pain in the butt, isn't it? There is still the belief that women are emotional/less intelligent and can not be taken seriously just because they are women. It is ridiculous. It is amazing how pervasive that attitude sill is. Sexism is alive and well. 🙁

EJ (The Other One)-Forgive us, oh great and powerful Katie, grant us mercy! We are your humble servants!! XD

Yeah, lots of hugs all around. <3 <3 <3

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

Y’know what? If being “sucked into a losing battle from which I’ll never recover” means reading funny blog posts mocking horrible people – which is what David does here, write funny blog posts mocking horrible people – then I fail to see how that is so awful.

As well as giving us a forum in which we can discuss video games with people who don’t suck, get interesting book recommendations, and read fascinating political/cultural/historic/scientific insights from others?

Oh, the pain
The agony.

If this is a battle, then I guess war is swell.

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

On that: Picked up Witcher 3 yesterday while waiting for our truck to get inspected…and then get new rear brakes. (Turns out that going into Gamestop to “just look around – and, hey, the toddler might like looking at the Amiibo and Disney Infiniti figs!” was a bad idea for someone who’s been watching the previews, reviews, and game play video for months…)

Today’s mantra: I am an adult with responsibilities, including but not limited to not scarring my small child with Witcher’s apparently very well deserved M rating.

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

Also *squints* “these women”?

There are actually a fair number of lovely dudes here.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

proxieme-I played Witcher 1 and 2 and I am very excited that Witcher 3 has been released. YAY. 😀

http://38.media.tumblr.com/176c19c3838bf01de76125b93ba6116d/tumblr_ncd4w7BaId1sa9jv8o1_500.gif

gilshalos
9 years ago

*covers her ears* LALALALALALALALALALALA

(my graphics card isn’t up to Witcher 3 🙁

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

What I said to one of my FB friends who lamented that his PC probably won’t up to Fallout 4:

That’s the wonderful thing about being a console peasant – the game will work.
It won’t have the potential to be as shiny as it might be with the newest setup, there are no open mods, and it stays pretty pricey until no one wants to play it*, but it will work○.

* Although some of the games available for “free” on XB Live and PS Plus are actually quite good, especially sone of the indies.

○ Unless it’s hopelessly fracked on release.

brooked
brooked
9 years ago

OK, I looked up Tim since David said he’s shockingly an actual person and found out he’s mentioned during the “Activism Panel Discussion” at the not annual International Conference on Men’s Issues.

I didn’t find anything our pal Tim said, but I found a section where JudgyB describes the strategy behind her Twitter activism that I must share. Yes, there’s a strategy behind JudgyB’s ragey Tweeter feed and it’s all in the name of activism.

I’m Janet Bloomfield, and most of my activism takes place in 140 characters or less…

There’s two things you really want to accomplish in Twitter, if you’re going to be an activist. One thing is “reach,” and the other thing is “response.” When you’re talking about “reach” in Twitter, it doesn’t really matter how many followers you have; it matters how many followers your followers have. That’s a really important point. If you look on my Twitter feed, I have about a thousand followers; but, just this morning, with three re-tweets, I reached over three million people.

What I go after on Twitter is, I chase after voices that are slightly open. I go after a younger crowd that I think is open to what we are talking about. I tailor my messages to reach people, especially young people, who might be willing to stop for one nanosecond, which is about how long people will read a tweet for, and consider clicking on a point of view, watching a video. Tailoring the message is really important on Twitter; know who your audience is, and go after them. And you have 140 characters, so you can go on quite a bit and make your point, you know…

Here’s the big mistake people make: they only re-tweet stuff they agree with. No, no, no: re-tweet stuff you think is absolutely fucking horrible. That’s great—that gets people to respond. That’s the second part of what you want to do. Re-tweeting something doesn’t mean you endorse it; so when you find something absolutely appalling on Twitter, go ahead and repeat it…

But—things will stick, over and over again, if you keep sending the same information out and keep collecting followers; and re-tweet stuff that you don’t agree with, and try and get a response on Twitter. It’s an excellent form of activism, because it’s communication, activism as communication. And I think that’s really where we are. We still need to get the word out about what we do. We’re confronting a horrible set of stereotypes in the media. I mean—I made some comment on Twitter that “we were going to spend the money we collected on hookers and blow.” Under 24 hours, we got the Motor City Muckraker reporting that “A Voice for Men admits they will be spending the funds on prostitutes and illegal drugs.” But you know what? That brought us a lot of traffic. It got us a lot of attention. A lot of people looked at that headline and said, “What?!—Okay, I’m going.”

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

misseb – I’ve played neither, but I’m still psyched 😀

I’ve her the first two are more “on rails”. True?

I actually got it more for Father’s Day for my husband since he’s a big fan of open worlds.
Though I’ve opened it.
I mean, I’m going to push him to play…though he says that he doesn’t have enough time. I’m still trying to get him to play through DA: I on the side of the mages so I can watch the divergent storyline – AND DO HE CAN PLAY *ahem* – but it hasn’t happened yet.

I thought this game might help nudge him…

-_-

It’ll probably ever be played by me.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

gilshalos-My whole computer isn’t up to it. 🙁 I have an old handy-down lap top that is not up to anything at all! I had to write my thesis on the thing and it really sucked. It would over heat and crash, this was when there was nothing but Microsoft Word and a few Internet Explorer tabs open. It would crash like every 5 minutes! I was sitting there writing my thesis or gathering data and suddenly the screen would go black. O.O About 5 minutes later, the same thing. Drove me up the wall. If it wasn’t for Word’s automatic recovery, I would have been stuffed. Turns out that the fans were not activating early enough and my dad had to readjust them. Don’t ask me how. It doesn’t crash as often, but it runs terribly. It doesn’t stop me from playing games, but it does make it very difficult. I need a new computer. 🙁

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

proxieme-At least you will enjoy it. Maybe he will see what he’s missing and decide to play it? XD

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

[…]which is about how long people will read a tweet for, and consider clicking on a point of view, watching a video.

And then makes the world’s most boring videos.

At least the Skull Boys’ offerings can have a slightly surreal “is this really happening? will it continue?” quality about them, not to mention the challenge offered by trying to understand what they’re saying in spite of the audio.

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

I’ve heard*
And so*

Lots of others, I’m sure.

I’d go get my laptop rather than my phone, but I have a purring cat curled up on my lap and I’m pretty sure it’d be against the law to move her.

Also, any noise that I make may wake the children, and before 7am is Mommy’s “browse the net and drink coffee” sanity-saving time.

gilshalos
9 years ago

I’m trying not to be cautiously optimistic about Fallout 4, since I so far can’t find the specs. Someone said it wasn’t graphically much better than F3, which I can play.

Yes, I’ve played Witcher 1 and 2, and even own one of the books published in English!
(And somewhere I have a link to a fansite translating the ones not published in English)

Since November though, I’ve only played DA.
Mainly Inquisition, but I have replayed Origins, Awakening and Da2 as well.
Currently I’m trying a playthrough with DAKeep bg set up with Alistair staying in the Wardens, hence replacing Stroud in Inquisition. (My actual playthroughs, Alistair is always solo King)

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

Ever only* be played by me.

You get the idea.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

(My actual playthroughs, Alistair is always solo King)

The correct outcome.

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

misseb – It’s worth a shot. He’s definitely gotten tired of playing Borderlands with me (I, on the other hand, will NEVER tire of ANY of Borderlands games).

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago
gilshalos
9 years ago

@EJ(the other one) – I’m not looking forward to the choice in the Fade though. Kill Hawke or kill Alistair ? EEK!

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
9 years ago

Wow! I agree with JudgyBitch on something. RT stuff you don’t agree with as part of your strategy for engagement. I think she’s right.

Actually, part of me has a lot of grudging respect for Elam. He seems to do fuck all for anyone and has a big following and some (who knows how much) money flowing in for doing a few ranting videos. He’s also able to co-opt apparently reasonably talented, not-stupid women to his cause. Amazing.

(e.g. I think Dr. Tara P. used to have some really good points about dealing with seriously dysfunctional relationships if you strip out the increasingly anti-female rhetoric)

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

re: Fall Out 4’s graphics: Everyone ses to be basingtheir estimates on a few screenshots + the preview.

I dunno – that seems pretty thin on the ground. I’d want to see more dynamic game play before making a call.

gilshalos
9 years ago

@proxieme – 😛