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The Top Ten Completely Untrue Things I Learned from GirlWritesWhat’s Red Pill “Ask Me Anything”

Karen "GirlWritesWhat" Straughan: Everything she says is "true"
Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan: Everything she says is “true”

Karen Straughan, the soporific, pseudoscientific YouTube antifeminist, doesn’t seem on the surface much like a “Red Pill Woman.” She’s a single mother with short hair, well past “the wall,” who makes a point of not wearing makeup in her videos.

But she’s got one quality that apparently makes up for all of her other defects as a Red Pill gal: she tells the Red Pill guys exactly what they want to hear, defending their noxious views, feeding their sense of victimhood, and hand-waving away their blatant misogyny.

So it’s hardly a surprise that she got a warm welcome when she showed up yesterday in the Red Pill subreddit to do an “ask me anything.” Today, I girded my loins and popped a caffeine pill and read through her answers. Well, skimmed them, anyway; I’m no masochist.

I learned a lot. Unfortunately, most of what I learned was not true. 

So let me present the Top Ten Completely Untrue Things I Learned from GirlWritesWhat’s Red Pill AMA, and One Thing That Might Possibly Be True. 

All quotes are straight from Straughan’s AMA. I’ve bolded some of the most-untrue bits.

1) Roosh V isn’t a bad person for wanting to legalize rape

“One commenter expressed a wish that I’d learn to speak more wisely and circumspectly on topics like RooshV’s suggestion to make rape legal on private property (all I said was that however stupid or unfeasible or offensive his idea was, his stated intention was to prevent rape, so I wasn’t going to call him a bad person for it).”

2) Red Pill dudes only say terrible things about women because they love them so much

It’s not misogynistic. Some of the rhetoric here is very angry, and very generalized. A lot of that is from a sense of betrayal–I was taught women are wonderful and believed it, and then the shit hit the fan. There’s a point, though, if the journey isn’t suppressed through punishment and shaming, where these men tend to realize it’s the false paradigm they’re angry with, not women. … If these men didn’t love women in the first place, they wouldn’t be able to be hurt by their failure to live up to the unrealistic expectations society has encouraged them to have.”

3) When men rape women, it’s probably some woman’s fault, if you think about it

A rapist is a very damaged man (usually damaged by women) or a man who really really really wants sex but can’t convince a woman to willingly lie down with him.”

4) Women might look cute, but GWW can see the total-not-cuteness of their souls

“Neoteny. It’s important. The cuter someone is, the nicer we assume they are. For women, that cuteness is also associated with attractiveness to the opposite sex. So everyone thinks cute women are automatically nice, and men also find them sexually appealing.”

5) I’m a fatty who might possibly be wearing a fedora. No, really, for some reason my weight and possible hat choices came up

“Have you guys seen David Futrelle? Or “Angry Aussie”? Or any number of other hipster douchebag male feminists who are fat, have neckbeards, wear fedoras, have difficulty getting laid, etc?

A lot of the men I’ve met in my travels through the MRM are awkward or otherwise don’t remind women of Matthew McConaughey. But a lot of them are quite presentable. Confident, attractive, fit, and definitely not virgins.”

NOTE: I have doublechecked and I am definitely not wearing a fedora.

6) “Most feminists” probably have Borderline Personality Disorder or something similar

7) Red Pillers are the Malcolm X to the Men’s Rights Movement’s Martin Luther King

“If you rebelled without disseminating a message, you’d be a hindrance. But doing what you’re doing, you’re helping, even if you’re just presenting a Malcolm X for MRAs to juxtapose against MLK.

8) Black activists only protested the shootings of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown in order to get white people mad and make money for themselves, probably

When you try to cast blame over all whites for perpetuating a racist culture in a Martin or Brown case, whites don’t like that. They get pissed. It gets the animosity stirred up on both sides of the racial divide much more effectively than if the shooting was 100% unjustifiable. And it stirs up white resentment of blacks.

It’s like these particular people (activist leaders) are invested in racism, and they (maybe subconsciously) go out of their way to perpetuate the conditions that keep them in paychecks and justify their existence.

If racism ended, they’d be out of a job. The last three generations are the least racist, sexist, homophobic in history. Where’s the money and status in that, for your average Sharpton?”

9) There’s no epidemic of rape in India because half of all rape cases there are total bullshit

“[T]here’s significant evidence that about half of rape reports in India derive from consensual sex between unmarried persons, but which fall under statutory definitions of rape that are being questioned within the system as to their moral basis in a changing social landscape.” 

10) Women are less stable than men because science?

A woman has to be more emotionally stable than 85% of women to be as emotionally stable as the average man. A man has to be more sensitive than 85% of men to be as sensitive as the average woman.”

11) Chimp dudes don’t have wingmen. (Wing-chimps?)

“Human males are more cooperative with each other than males of almost any other species, really. The phenomenon of guys trying to get other guys laid just isn’t a thing in chimpanzee society.

That last one might be true, I guess. What the hell do I know about chimps?

EDIT: I have been informed that chimp dudes sort of do have wingmen, but in a horrible way.

 

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Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Since this is a reblog, Road to Servitude may not be reading the comment section. If not, that’s a shame.

Road to Servitude
5 years ago

I am not suggesting that men (myself or anyone else) should dispense cards like that. On the contrary, I am merely raising the question of who gets to say what is sexist.
Even if something an individual woman says is sexist, is there a difference between a woman pointing this out, and a man pointing it out? That is not a rhetorical question, but an open one. I guess context is important, too.
Anyway, I apologise for the comment at the end of my reblog. I don’t want to be antagonistic or “less MRA-ier than thou” about this. It’s see my earlier reblog as a question of problematizing rather than making it “verboten” for men to discuss misogyny among women.
It’s probably tactful for me to leave it here. I don’t want to give the impression of dismissing the blog as a whole. Thanks.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Even if something an individual woman says is sexist, is there a difference between a woman pointing this out, and a man pointing it out?

To some extent, yes. To another extent, no. Men need to examine the origins of their perspectives before they opine on what constitutes sexism. However, women need to do this, too. Men have a longer road than women do, but they’re not incapable of learning.

Road to Servitude
5 years ago

Sorry, one last thing @ Scented Fucking Hard Chairs. I should also say I didn’t address your other comment. I have no strong feeling on who you criticise, and I don’t feel it is my place to comment on who you do or do not criticise. I realise that what I said was risky, and I don’t want to suggest that you are wrong. I think what I originally said is indeed potentially patronising. I’m actually not 100% sure what I think about this topic.

Road to Servitude
5 years ago

Policy of Madness, I agree with your framing of this. Thanks.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Road to Servitude

Believe me, I understand your perspective. As a white person, I am obligated to call out racism in other white people whenever I see it. I am, however, very uncomfortable with the idea of pointing at black people and saying they are, themselves, exhibiting anti-black racism. There is evidence that a non-trivial number of African Americans have absorbed a non-trivial amount of anti-black racism, but it is not by any means my place to address that on individual or group levels.

Sexism is somewhat different, though, I think. Men and women live together in a way that black people and white people do not. While men do not see a lot of the sexism that women do (because other men tend not to do it when a strange man is around) they do see some of it, and I think that helps them on their road to understanding.

The danger posed by feminist men is not their calling out of sexism in women, but in their displaying sexism of their own by drowning out women’s voices.

Tina S
Tina S
5 years ago

It’s not rha gww and jb are physically ugly. They are average looking women. What makes them ugly is what comes out of their mouths.

ktrantingredhead
5 years ago

Why don’t misogynist women kill themselves? No, seriously, I’m asking. So much self hatred is not good for the soul and is bound to lead to horrifying results. It is not possible to function that long on that level of self-hatred. How can they even look at themselves in the mirror? Or do they just not have reflections because they’re vampires?

….and I realize I’m horrible for wishing they would die….but I don’t care. They all wish I would die…I’m the worst thing in the world to people like her….a woman, for one, a woman who has the audacity to be ugly and fat, a woman who is a feminist…make no mistake. These people would kill all of us if given the opportunity, so it’s only fair I wish the same on them. I am rather Spartan about this. People like her never “get better.” There is no forgiving this shit. There is no fixing this shit. She (and everyone like her) is 100% worthless and always will be. It will be a miracle if her child doesn’t grow up to be a serial killer. She and her followers ought to be in the same class as pedophiles and serial rapists.

No, I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Okay, I know KTRantingRedhead is a regular, but I’ve not been particularly fond of her since that thread where she slipped up and used a gross racist dogwhistle, so: Fuck off, KTRantingRedhead.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

No, I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Neither am I when I say that wishing suicide on someone is Not Okay. Suicide is not an appropriate punishment for literally anything. It is possible to not forgive her for her words without wishing she would kill herself, and that you can’t see a middle ground is a problem. For you. That you need very badly to work on, hard.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Yeah, wishing harm on someone is not right. Let’s not stoop to the manosphere’s level.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

I wonder if it occurs to her at all that black people working toward equality would have no trouble finding other far more lucrative work kissing white people’s asses? Does it occur to her that black people do not need racism (seriously WTF?) to have successful careers because the exact opposite is true? Does it occur to her that people dedicate their lives to equality now so that their kids won’t have to, not because they love the sweet, sweet imaginary perks of racism?

She makes the same claims about feminists. We only pretend to want to stop rape so we can make money off of it…somehow.

If misandry were real, isn’t she saying she’d never want it to end because then she’d be out of a job?

Projection, racism and internalized misogyny are sure an ugly mix.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Men are more stable but they’re all one “disappointment’ away from hating all women. They’re more stable, but sight of a butt renders them helpless. They’re more stable, but boobs not hid well enough away turn them into rapists.

LOGIX!

dhag85
5 years ago

I also remember kt’s racist crap from the other thread. Seconding the fuck off.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Men are more stable but they have a higher rate of suicide and commit more murders.
>.<
She almost gets that something other than biology is responsible for the rapey-murdery behaviors of men. Then instead of realizing that those things are symptoms of patriarchy she decides the problem is really not enough patriarchy. Then she's back to blaming biology. Only she blames women's inherent inferiority, wickedness and undeserved liberty.

LOGIX!

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Racist and wishing other people would harm themselves?
NOPE.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

@KTRantingRedhead,

Whoa! We don’t advocate suicide or self harm here. Karen Straughan is certainly an awful misogunist and racist (seriously, is every prominent MRA going to turn out to be racist?), but that doesn’t mean that I wish that she would kill herself. The comment about her sons, whom we know absolutely nothing about, was pretty uncalled for as well. Just becuase their mother has these views doesn’t mean that they’ll grow up to be serial killers. Hell, it doesn’t even mean that they won’t see through her bullshit once they grow up, or even before they do.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Sometimes shitty parents make great examples of who not to be.

jessica
5 years ago

i am astounded! The whole victim blaming psychopathy just really expands her entire outlook, doesn’t it? Lemme guess, Trayvon was in the wrong place, wearing the wrong thing at the wrong time, and didn’t do as he was told by someone in a position of authority (Zimmerman); position of authority responds with force. Michael Brown had just robbed the convenient store and physically threatened an officer (position of authority); position of authority responds with force. *Random female refuses to be dictated to by someone in a position of authority (more often than not, male); position of authority responds with force (rape, murder, assault, fired, marginalized and berated). Because as history has taught us, those in power are just never wrong.

And someone mentioned how her situation is everything that these groups stand against (purposefully unattractive according to today’s standards – i.e. short hair, no make-up, less than pin up feminine attire, no info on why her ex doesn’t have custody, and so on). I think that is an excellent point to bring up. I am certain they will dismiss it as “well SHE is different.” No one is that unique, my little MRA snowflakes.

just wow. her position makes me think of other oxymorons – Jews for Hitler, Blacks for the Ku Klux Klan, Gays for Republicans

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I subscribe to the “It’s better to be a horrible warning than a shining example” school of child care.

nunya
5 years ago

sure, blame women for sexism, black people (and other ethnic minorities) for racism, blame immigrants for xenophobia, blame homosexuality, feminism, and atheism for the fall of the usa. wow, and from a system that demands personal accountability from everyone else.

these are reasoning skills that my five year old son uses. i would expect better from adults. anyone wanna go in and buy an island, lol?!

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Yeah, yikes, there’s a big difference between a. wondering how women misogynists survive with that level of self-hatred, and b. wishing them dead.

I don’t even think they do wish us dead, either. I would guess they mostly want us to just behave “right,” meaning that we would follow their warped conception of what should be.

Shaenon
5 years ago

Yeah, I don’t know about apes (although ape behavior is so diverse and complex I’m willing to bet there’s at least one species that does it), but “wingman” behavior is common in many birds and mammals. A bunch of guys strutting their stuff together can attract a female more effectively than one guy prancing around on his lonesome. Often the males are brothers or other close relatives, so that even if only one of them gets laid they’re all helping to pass their genes along.

This Karen lady sounds fun at PTA meetings.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Actually, humans are better at a number of things than chimpanzees. Any time adult chimps of different family groups interact, there is a potential for violence. Most humans have managed to overcome this tendency, which is one of the reasons we outnumber them.

Karen Straughan is really a terrible person, isn’t she? I can’t decide which would distress me more: that she really means the things she says, or is pretending to for the attention. Both would be awful.

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
5 years ago

Regarding GGW’s shorthaired no-makeup look, is it possible that this is sort of a way to signal that she is ‘one of the guys’? That she’s not one of those other women, the tricky conniving golddigers?
I’m not exactly sure if that makes sense, because it seems the misogynists don’t like women that are too ‘manly’, but… well, maybe?

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
5 years ago

Dang, the blog seems to have eaten my close-italics tag. The only word that should have been italic-ed was ‘other’.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Road to Servitude

Even if something an individual woman says is sexist, is there a difference between a woman pointing this out, and a man pointing it out? That is not a rhetorical question, but an open one. I guess context is important, too.

I second Policy of Madness in that the road of understand is much longer for men, since we cannot know how it feels to live as a woman in this society. For me, there were a HUGE number of issues that I was blissfully unaware of until I started reading feminist literature, talking with friends and lurking on this blog. (An example: The accusation that women get of “being bossy” for doing things that are not inherently ‘bossy’. I never knew that).

Also, GWW (like many misogynists) manages to be offensive enough that she propagates unhealthy stereotypes about men, which I can identify pretty easily:

hipster douchebag male feminists who are fat, have neckbeards, wear fedoras, have difficulty getting laid

A lot of the men I’ve met in my travels through the MRM are awkward or otherwise don’t remind women of Matthew McConaughey. But a lot of them are quite presentable. Confident, attractive, fit, and definitely not virgins.

A ‘healthy’ reminder that a man’s worth is determined by his sexual experience with women specifically.

A man has to be more sensitive than 85% of men to be as sensitive as the average woman.

Because (bullshit evo psych a.k.a.) ‘biology’ dictates that men are less sensitive, any men displaying sensitivity will have their manly membership to the manly house of manliness permanently revoked.

Of course, these are a mere fraction compared to the number of unhealthy ‘facts’ that GWW says about women.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

No, I’m not joking or exaggerating.

Well it’s a good thing this isn’t a joke as it isn’t funny, but you’re either exaggerating or you don’t consider suicide, pedophilia and serial rape serious topics.

I think ktrantingredhead’s post should be removed. The lack of humanity itself is bad, wishing death on a person who said terrible things and viewing them as violent criminals is a dual failure of empathy and critical thinking.

The true terribleness lies in the shitty passive aggressive sea lioning form of “go kill yourself” which is both cowardly and out of bounds for blog commentary section moderated by a decent person for decent people. Take that shit elsewhere.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

@Penny Psmith,

It’s definitely possible that that’s what she’s doing. I’ve noticed that a lot of other fallen FeMRAs or FeMRAs at AVFM who’ve been attacked by certain MRAs and MGTOWs have been attacked for using their femininity and sexuality to infiltrate the movement and seduce the men into giving them what they want. GWW might very well be downplaying her femaleness and looks on purpose to avoid such accusations. It’s also possible that she recognizes on some level that they’ll take her less seriously if she looks conventionally feminine and attractive.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Neoteny. It’s important. The cuter someone is, the nicer we assume they are. For women, that cuteness is also associated with attractiveness to the opposite sex. So everyone thinks cute women are automatically nice, and men also find them sexually appealing.

WTF is up FeMRAs’ hangup with neoteny? (Incidentally, Firefox spell check doesn’t even recognize neoteny as a real word.) Is this some bizarre, subtle way for them to justify grown men pursuing teenage girls because teenage girls are allegedly indistinguishable from adult women because teenage girls and women are both so neotenous?

Penny Psmith
Penny Psmith
5 years ago

It’s also possible that she recognizes on some level that they’ll take her less seriously if she looks conventionally feminine and attractive

That sounds reasonable, yeah. But again, when feminists are the one with that look, it seems they just prefer calling them ‘unwomanly’ (or mysoginistic/homophobic slurs to that effect), so I don’t really know how the whole thing works.

Maybe it’s just that as long as you agree with them, they’ll find some way that the ‘rules’ don’t apply to you.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

On the subject of KS’s physical appearance: what is immediately clear is that if she had a channel that was not virulently anti feminist her short haired, unadorned appearance (a ‘safe lesbian’ look if you like) would attract vicious abuse from the manosphere.

I would love to do a feminist channel on youtube, there are virtually none, but the abuse about my appearance coupled with all the rape and death threats, and perhaps some more ‘creative’ abuse is offputting. I know that this is the intention, but my mental health comes first!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Ellesar

There’s actually many feminist channels that are very small and don’t receive much harassment at all.

For instant Push to Smart has been operating for a year and, admitedly, I haven’t seen all their videos, but their video critic games and have less than a 1000 views each.

They may or may not have received harassment, but it seems harassment only compounds into Sarkeesian/Queen/Wu territory if you bring up the fact that you’ve been harassed. :/

I’d say you should go for it, but I wouldn’t expect to make it big. Just be careful with the tags and titles and you should be good.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Wow, I did not proof read that well.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Ellesar

You don’t have to appear on camera to do a youtube channel. I’ve honestly never understood the appeal of youtube vids that are just someone sitting in front of a webcam talking. I can’t deal with them, because watching them is boring, and listening to them and doing something else is just distracting. Put something else on the screen and do voiceovers instead.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

I don’t like the whole MRA cult, but I’m not sure how constructive it is for men to criticise women (rather than other men) re: misogyny?
I realise that in saying that, I’m risking falling into a kind of condescension and ‘chivalry,’ but it’s the matter of positionality that worries me.
I know it’s not black and white, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable either criticising a woman or her views on the grounds of misogyny, as though it was for any one (male!) individual to police how women speak about gender.
All men, without exception, are complicit with unequal communication between women and men, so is it perhaps a little bit cheap for a man to ridicule a woman about misogyny? Is it better for a man to risk complicity with male linguistic domination over a woman deemed “sexist,” than any other woman?

I’m going to disagree. First, David is a journalist so he is reporting on what was actually said in an AMA in forum that was posted a major hub of misogynistic men. GWW isn’t even talking to women or trying to provide a “women’s perspective”, she’s saying factually incorrect things in order to suck up to one of the worst sections of her asshole male fanbase. He can critique women’s false statements posing as “hard truths”, GWW is a pseudo-intellectual polemicist associated with AVfM and a public figure of note, according to MRAs. In fact, David is only placing her, uh, worldview in the context of the prominently male manosphere.

Second, I very much appreciate David’s journalistic approach because he stays away from personal commentary that privileges his personal experience over women’s experiences. Unlike an endless number of male commentators, when David discussed Elliot Rodger he never subjected us to a lengthy testimonial about his personal teen dating woes and sexual history.

An endless number of annoying male “allies” wrote at length about how they didn’t date in High School, were frustrated, grew angry at girls so much that they were misogynistic or at least sympathized, but grew up and learned women were people too (Hurray!). Their excuse, I think, at first was to explain Rodgers, but it quickly turned into an annoying “explaining frustrated nerds” genre that littered the internet. These guys assumed that their experiences were completely unique to boys (they weren’t) and their sense of entitlement made them believe people wanted to here about their teenage sexual frustration (I didn’t).

The moment David starts dragging this blog down with narcissistic personal commentaries that turn misogyny into a element of an online persona schick, I’m gone. Luckily he’s a real journalist. When he references his personal life it’s limited, and he uses it to explain his blog schedule, or to offer sympathy or empathy in a way that highlights the other person’s experience.

I realise that in saying that, I’m risking falling into a kind of condescension and ‘chivalry,’ but it’s the matter of positionality that worries me.

I feel it’s drifted to condescension because it ignores that feminism has influenced a body of scholarly work that can stand the among any and be discussed, well or badly, by people of any gender.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

Pandapool and POM – I am tech useless, I wouldn’t be able to do anything but talk – obviously that could be really boring, I did want to just be very specific and review old feminist ‘classics’ as there is so much misinformation about what a specific writer said – but there are other reasons that I just would never get round to doing it, I have to admit!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Ellesar

Lol.

Well, if you ever really want to do it, Windows Movie Maker is a pretty easy thing to learn (and it’s free). Audacity is also a really good free audio program to record with, and many professional use it.

All you need to do is record your voice and slap a picture into Movie Maker and make it the length of the video. If you want to make it any more fancy, there’s ton of tutorials out there to look at.

You don’t need to be fancy when you start out.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago
Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

Can someone break down for me how that Yes A BAD Person thought making rape legal again is supposed to help victims of the least reported and convicted and most stigmitized crimes that is still legal in many places?

As far as I can tell, the idea was to redefine what rape is, so there would “technically” be less rape? It wasn’t intended to help rape victims as far as I can tell, PUAs think rapists who get locked up are victims, so it was meant to help those “victims”.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

@Kellen,

Roosh’s argument was that if you made rape legal on private property, women would be more careful about being alone with men. Oddly enough, even Jordan Owen could see the problems with this argument.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Can someone break down for me how that Yes A BAD Person thought making rape legal again is supposed to help victims of the least reported and convicted and most stigmitized crimes that is still legal in many places?

The rationale was that if rape is legal on private property, women will be more careful about going into private property with men with whom they don’t intend to have sex. Because the problem is that women just aren’t careful enough!

The thought process behind it, though, is really easy to see: Roosh doesn’t want to fuck around with consent. He wants any female body on the premises to be legally his to do with as he pleases, no questions asked. Consent is really hard for rapists like Roosh, and he just doesn’t want to have to think about it at all.

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

Love this anti marriage equality rant by an Australian right winger, yes marriage is good …just don’t enjoy it…..

“Marriage has always been the union of a man and a woman, for the core purpose of procreating and rearing children. It exists to tame the base sexual instincts of men and women, to harness a mother and father to monogamy and the optimal upbringing of their children. It is not a vehicle to validate adult romantic interests. ”

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/prime_minister_tony_abbott_cant_have_his_cake_and_eat_it_too/

Road to Servitude
5 years ago

Just wanted to say that there are a lot of helpful further comments on my original comment. Thanks for these, and I will reflect on them. Jonathan (Wallace Runnymede)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Curious how the argument that marriage is for procreation is only used against gay couples. I’ve yet to see a movement on the right to make it a requirement that straight couples must have children or to deny straight couples that are too old to procreate or have an infertile member of the couple the right to marry.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

Curious how the argument that marriage is for procreation is only used against gay couples. I’ve yet to see a movement on the right to make it a requirement that straight couples must have children or to deny straight couples that are too old to procreate or have an infertile member of the couple the right to marry.

Well, I assume the idea is that god could bless a couple with 1 or 2 infertile partners?

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Ellesar

Go for it, I started making a channel on youtube where I review stories in video games

Tony
5 years ago

I’m sure GWW had lots and lots of reputable citations for her many assertions-right? I’ll be waiting over in the corner holding my breath waiting to see them.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Tony,
Noooooooooooo!

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

If you have not been to see the AVFM post trying to spin their failure to organize another craptacular conference, you should. Hilarious.