Over on Boing Boing, Mark Frauenfelder has posted the excerpt below from A Love That Multiplies: An Up-Close View of How They Make It Work by Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar — yes, those Duggars — explaining how women “defraud” men when they dress in a way that men find exciting (in their pants).
This, sadly, is not exactly an original or even unusual notion in reactionary religious circles.
Indeed, a couple of years back, I found a rather scary post on a radically pro-patriarchal site called the CoAlpha Brotherhood in which one young man calling himself Drealm lamented that, as a man living “in a university town that’s overrun with young girls” he was literally “forced to stare at hundreds if not thousands of women a day, all of whom bring sluttiness to all new pinnacle”
Like the Duggars, Drealm thought that “a woman dressing provocatively and leaving a man in an unfinished state of excitement … is an assault on men’s sexuality.”
When women dress like this, he argued, he and other men couldn’t help but want to rape them.
[T]he only thing I want to do to a slut is rape them. … dressing like sluts brings out murders, rapists and sadists in men. … A society based on sluts, might as well be a pro-rapist society.
Reading back over this now, it’s all a bit too reminiscent of the thinking of Elliot Rodger. Indeed, after Rodger went on his misogyny-driven murder spree, one CoAlpha Forum member wrote that Rodger “would have been a true hero” had he only killed more sorority women; the site now adorns its front page with an homage to Rodger.
But it isn’t just those on the margins of the manosphere who think this way. In The Myth of Male Power, the 1993 book that essentially provided the ideological blueprint for the Men’s Rights movement today, Warren Farrell famously wrote of the “miniskirt power” secretaries allegedly had over their male bosses.
Farrell is a couple of decades older now, and apparently it takes more than a miniskirt to render him powerless these days. And by “more than a miniskirt” I mean less. As in no clothing at all. When Farrell put out a new eBook edition of The Myth of Male Power last year, he had his publisher put a rear-view shot of a nude woman on the cover, “to illustrate,” as he explained in an appearance on Reddit,
that the heterosexual man’s attraction to the naked body of a beautiful woman takes the power out of our upper brain and transports it into our lower brain
This sort of logic, like that of the Duggars and of “Drealm” from the CoAlpha Brotherhood, also conveniently takes the blame for (heterosexual) male behavior and transports it into the bodies of women. With the Duggars, we’ve seen exactly where this sort of logic can lead.
Farrell, much like the Duggars and the excerable “Drealm,” also seems to think that women commit a kind of fraud against men when they “stir up sensual desires” that they don’t intend to fulfill. As Farrell wrote in The Myth of Male Power, when a man pays good money to take a woman out, and she doesn’t repay him, as it were, with sex, she is in his estimation committing a kind of “date fraud” or “date robbery.”
Or even a sort of date rape. Farrell wrote that
dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. … Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
Emphasis mine, because holy fuck.
This is what happens when your ideology makes women responsible for (heterosexual) men’s desires. Hell, it’s what happens when you make anyone responsible for the desires of someone else, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
Your pants feelings are your responsibility. Not anyone else’s. Full stop.
@Tina S.
I wouldn’t mind wearing a suit, some of the time, but didn’t we just fight a whole fucking sexual revolution so women could wear what they wanted?
Besides, I can’t make a suit look as nice as Mr. Grant to my upper left could. At least it would teach fuckboys what a fedora actually is, and when to wear one.
@katz:
I said to my boy, a couple of weeks ago, “Come on, little man, we’re going outside!” and he slapped his chest and crowed, “Little man!”
My daughter keeps wanting to do things like drive cars, and we tell her she can when she’s bigger, so she keeps saying “I’m bigger!”
Aahaha! My niece did this over the weekend (she’s 5). We were at a bbq at her dad’s house and we were all having a few beers, as you will. She asked if she could have some and we laughed, and her dad said ,”When you’re older.” So she counted to five, then exclaimed, “I’m five more older now!”
Mark,
If you don’t want us to call you out for victim blaming, try not telling us we need to be sensitive to the needs of rapists.
And by the way, I’m so very flattered to be compared to a ten dollar bill.
Interesting how Mark asks what we think of model’s bodies. As opposed to the fashion and advertising industries that have fetishized thinness. Once again, we’re supposed to blame the woman for her appearance.
No. Thin women aren’t thin at me and policing their bodies will not help my or anyone else’s body image.
@ WWTH
Speaking of the $10 bill comparison, women are not property, fyi, so that’s a shitty comparison, but let’s roll with it for the sake of argument.
Mark said:
To make this comparison more accurate, it would be like a guy going to Starbucks every day, standing by the line, and watching people take money out of their wallets to give to the barista to pay for their coffee and saying something like: “All these rich fucks with their $10 and $20 dollar bills, just taking them OUT OF THEIR WALLETS AND WAVING THEM AROUND. It’s enough to make someone snatch it right out of their hands! And that’s what they get! If they don’t want to get punched in the face and their money taken, they should keep it in their wallets where it belongs and stop tempting poor guys like me!”
More consistent with the OP, I think.
If any of this ‘stumbling block’ bull was true, women in the Middle East, nuns, and old women would not be victims of rape. Rapists rape because they think women are not people and they can get away and are justified in they violation.
Sorry, is Mark still making words with his fingers on a keyboard here? His deepest thought is about as deep as graphene and it’s kind of a waste of ones and zeros.
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29″If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell….” Matthew 5:27-29
This is Jesus saying (pretty harshly) that a man’s lust is his own responsibility. He doesn’t get to share the blame. He definitely doesn’t get to shift the better part of the blame to the woman he’s looking at. Every patriarchal Christian in the world skipped Sunday school when this passage was being taught?
The whole reason Christianity caught on (before it had military strength behind it) was because it had a radical, beautiful message that demonstrably improved the well being of the underprivileged. Nowadays… eh.
Now, being Christian is more about being part of the culture surrounding Christianity, and less about the heartfelt good will or honest self-reflection that the Christian foundational text actually demands of believers. Do people like Vox Day sound like they sincerely ask themselves, “What would Jesus do?” and then go on to let the answer temper their decisions? No, because these people don’t worship Jesus; they worship being right all the time, so anyone who even slightly challenges their views (by being okay with LGBT people, women dressing how they want, etc.) is horribly threatening to them.
I’m aware that there’s a lot of anti-Christian sentiment in these comments, so please understand that I’m not trying to be contrary by saying pro-Christian things; it’s just that the Duggar scandal and this laundry list of bigotries have been churning in my mind, especially as a Christian. It’s like when your favorite movie gets a horrible, horrible sequel, and you just want to pretend the sequel never happened because it’s spoiling everything.
@proxieme
I understand. Mmmm, hmmm.
@Lisa
They may not read books but everyone reads way more than ever because of the internet.
Are you shocked to learn you are reading right now? :O /jk
But, really, people are reading and writing more than ever thanks to social media and the internet, which is a good thing until you realize that also includes comment sections. :/ Kinda a double edged sword, almost 100% literacy in the USA.
re: Crocs and Uggs
Both are really comfortable; Crocs are good for summer and water, Uggs are good for winter and snow. It doesn’t matter if they look bad or tacky because they aren’t made to be fashionable, per se, but more utilitarian.
And it really doesn’t matter if people wear them or not.
What matters is that people fucking wear these $50+ shoes to show off how much money they have.
I remember a few years back, people bragged about having $120+ Uggs. They do the same to Crocs now.
The hate of these shoes didn’t start because they’re stupid looking, the hate started because douchecanoes had to fucking brag about how much money they spent on that shit. That hate transferred to everyone who wears Uggs or Crocs even if they don’t brag about being able to afford them.
So don’t hate Uggs or Crocs, hate elitist shitlords who brag about being able to buy crappy looking shoes that surely aren’t worth $100+.
Oh, I just thought of this.
The MRA are like real-life and more horrible Disney villians.
Yeah, that’s great Mark, I’m glad you’ve realized that sometimes people wear clothes according to the situation.
Now, would you mind explaining to me why you came to this topic in particular to talk about how ‘women need to dress modest!’, if you think that what women are wearing is never grounds for sexual assault?
I mean, the original post is pretty clearly about men who see women wearing the ‘wrong’ clothes and make the dudes want to rape/molest them. Your first post here was asking us if we didn’t think there was a biological component to sexual urges, as if the argument “but it’s NATURAL” excuses this disgusting swill. Why are you defending these fuckfaces, Mark, if you actually disagree with them?
I regret that when I get to Heaven, I won’t be able to tell these people how angels go around stark-fucking-naked like I expect they do (’cause why would you need clothes there?).
Also, I have some suggestions where Farrell can put his book.
Back from the garden, from supper, and from blanching a batch of lambs’-quarters for the freezer, and just played catch-up on all the comments here. Good golly Miss Molly, how this thread done blowed up…and how those funny kid stories and Croc/Ugg love/hate made me laugh.
Anyway: Men’s forearms are nice and all, but I confess, I check out their legs. A former boyfriend of mine started out as just-a-friend, at least until the night he showed up at my place in his soccer shorts. Yes, he had nice legs. And yes, that did make me look at him in a different way. And make me think of dumping my existing dud of a boyfriend so I’d be free to do…better things. Yeah. That’s it.
(I also check out faces and hair, for what it’s worth. And pecs, if they’re on display. But none of it has ever made me want to rip a guy’s clothes off and do nasty things to him.)
I have to say, I’m a butt woman. I like it when a guy has a nice butt and he wears pants that are not too tight and not too loose so that it just pops up if he leans over a bit.
I also like how men look in sweaters. Big fan of Jude Law in a burgundy cardigan in existenz (forgot which letters are supposed to be capitalized and I don’t care enough to look it up).
@WWTH
Butts are nice. I like big butts and I cannot lie.
I was gonna list everything I’d like in an ideal man and woman, buuuut I thought that was pushing it.
Also, on the topic of crocs (and Puma shoes…)
http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ae0zMzB_700b.jpg
Men are better and should rule and own everything but it’s women’s fault for everything bad that happens. Misognists love to use whatever argument to excuse themselves and keep their power and never have to take responsibility. They are such massive hypocrites: “Men should do whatever they want to women because it’s male sexuality and you shouldn’t demonize it but I’ll demonize female sexuality for wearing, watching/reading, acting/saying whatever and having sex with whoever.”
If a man says that he can’t control himself I’m calling the cops because if you can’t control yourself you should lock yourself away so you won’t hurt anyone. I really did give you a favor so you should thank me.
When I hear a man says that feminists think all men are rapists it’s always the same man who is a rape apoligist, misognist, rapist himself that turns right around and says that all men are rapists. These men are not upset that feminists are saying that all men are rapists what they’re upset about is that they hear from feminists is “Let us help the victims and stop rapists once and for all” and not “men are rapists so it’s ok just blame women and let men do whatever”
So really they’re not crying “feminists are wrong not all men are like this” it’s “oh s**t shut up! Shut up! I’m scared! I’m so scared! I don’t wanna to get caught! I don’t wanna to to take responsibility! I want power and dominance!”
Here is some healthy female sexuality/brain bleach
http://media.carbonated.tv/120860_story__8.png
http://www.cleo.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tumblr_mx7r27xNxV1s77zr6o1_1280.jpg
http://api.ning.com/files/DtcI2O2Ry7BAAv3CmRV59YAkSUR3J3QzVEdL82aj*3H1bfSxMXSJxIMFQoCIMUa45aLoFvfbaO1ICxLM0TkrfXLKBvSnsduv/1082140696.png
I used to have a phobia whenever I see a half naked man I’m still working on it.
Even putting aside the yucky stuff about conflating sexual desire with sexual assault, why is the appeal to biology all, “But horniness is tougher for men”? What does that even mean? That people with penises can get boners at potentially embarrassing times? True! Maybe “horniness” isn’t as potentially embarrassing for women, but then there’s the whole period thing – the potential of getting it unexpectedly and having blood show on your clothes. Embarrassing, right?
But being embarrassed isn’t the worst thing that can happen to a person. I’m quite sure of that. Exhibit A: In grade 10, I thought the date of the science fair was a week later, and I didn’t realize my mistake until science fair day. I ran out of school crying. Exhibit B: In college, I sympathized with a fellow student who had an oral exam by saying “Oral sucks” and she was hugely amused. Exhibit C: Just recently, I was jogging past a bunch of people and I happened to fart rather loudly. All embarrassing! But see, none of these things has killed me yet 🙂
Needs more butts.
@fruitloopsie – I glanced over the pictures, but it took me a second look to notice that the men and the cats are in the same poses. So adorable!!!
But men don’t have tails and that would disturb the whole analogical thing going on, Jackie!
ANAL-logical. Heehee.
@epitome
Bob tail cat.
Preferably in this pose.
http://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-articles/pet-breeds/~/media/All%20PHZ%20Images/Article%20images/BobtailShowingTail.ashx